Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-09-09

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Time Nick Message
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00:15 jberger zacts, for anything more than poc or demos I use full module style
00:21 jberger I would say any time I have more than 3-4 routes it's time to go to full
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03:03 zacts ah ok
03:04 zacts https://github.com/zacts/Per​l-Webcasts/tree/sketchzacts
03:04 zacts here is the beginnings of a mojo site I want to build
03:05 zacts I'm transferring a conversation from #perl-help to here
03:05 shmuel zacts: why won't you start with the examples in the docs, and try to build your homepage mojo-style?
03:06 shmuel I think it will be a good start. we can help from there.
03:08 zacts ok, let me see what I can do
03:11 zacts note this is my very first mojolicious site
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03:19 jberger zacts, is there some reason you choose Template::Simple?
03:20 jberger Mojo can be used with any template system of course, but its linkages to its own are very useful
03:21 jberger Plus I really like mojo's templating engine, since it really is just a thin wrapper on top of a language I already know: Perl
03:22 zacts yeah, I'm just more familiar with Template::Simple, and wanted to get it up and running soon. my next branch is going to start from scratch. I'm going to do this ground up mojo-style.
03:23 * zacts has used Template::Simple for other sites I've done, I wanted a 'simple' templater, and it worked for that.
03:23 zacts _basic_ _simple_ sites that is
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03:24 zacts so give me like 10min to code up another version.
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03:50 zacts Ok, how can I set up external template files? do I just drop them in layouts/ and include them somehow?
03:52 zacts I'm reading Mojo::Guides::Rendering now
03:54 zacts oh I see
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04:03 zacts got it to work \o/
04:23 zacts --
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05:38 zacts ok, about to push soon
05:39 zacts how do you guys insert copyright symbols my $copyright = '&copy;' <%= $copyright %>
05:39 zacts wait let me try <%== %>
05:40 zacts that worked, but is it less secure? perldoc Mojolicious::Guides::Rendering hints that it is less secure.
05:43 zacts and where is the conventional location to store css in a mojo app?
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06:02 shmuel zacts: you can store css in the public directory
06:04 shmuel and about security, it does not html-encode, but if you control the variable, nothing to fear.
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06:14 zacts ok thanks
06:14 zacts let me push what I have so far
06:17 zacts https://github.com/zacts/Perl-Webcasts
06:17 zacts ok pushed
06:17 zacts let me know what you think about the beginnings of what I've got
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06:44 shmuel zacts: nice, starts to look like a mojo app.
06:44 shmuel I would make generate_thumbnail an helper, and make it generate thumbs from the template
06:45 shmuel so the stashed info is the youtube links themselves, so you can use them for linking
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06:53 zacts https://github.com/zacts/Per​l-Webcasts/tree/sketch_zacts
06:54 zacts shmuel: ^^ this is how I'm storing data. I don't completely understand what you mean. would you mind explaining further based on my last push?
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06:55 zacts in a nutshell: my @webcast_links = ( { link => $url, title => $title, thumb => $thumb_url } );
06:55 zacts then I iterate in templates/index/webcast_links.html.ep
06:55 shmuel take a look at helpers: http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojolicious/Lite#Helpers
06:56 zacts ok
06:56 shmuel these are functions that you run inside the template.
06:56 zacts I see. let me check it out.
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07:37 zacts ok, I can't seem to pass arguments into my helpers
07:40 zacts if you get a chance to check out my latest push. perl_webcasts and templates/index/webcast_links.html.ep
07:40 zacts to see how I'm defining the helpers, and how I'm calling them in the templates
07:41 zacts https://github.com/zacts/Per​l-Webcasts/tree/zacts_sketch
07:41 zacts new branch sorry! :_
07:41 shmuel let me see..
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07:44 shmuel the first parameter of the helper is $self
07:45 shmuel so you need to write: my ($self, $link) = @_;
07:45 zacts ah, lol
07:45 zacts ok
07:45 shmuel not in the template, but in you perl file, line 42
07:46 zacts and now it works
07:46 zacts thanks for catching that
07:46 shmuel mojo adds $self automatically
07:54 Dandre Hello,
07:59 Dandre I have to create a form from a hash. Each field must be presented with a UI corresponding to its type (list, textfield, boolean value, ...). I'd like to have one general form template walking thru this structure and guessing which UI to use from eg some control data put in the structure. Is there something in mojolicious that can help this process or som recommended way to do it
07:59 Dandre I don't want to have one template for each possible data structure
08:13 batman Dandre: how will you deal with order, if you create it from a hash?
08:16 Dandre I plan to have a list with hash keys to specify order
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09:12 n0n hi. just a short question: i'd like to setup a recurring event emitter with IOLoop->recurring inside the startup() method. but it just does not work.
09:12 n0n tried IOLoop->singleton too
09:13 n0n from the docs it should be possible to just call IOLoop->recurring() inside startup()...
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09:15 n0n if I call IOLoop->start() after that, I get my recurring events, but the main event loop stops (and my app)
09:22 n0n maybe it does not work because of the way i'm starting it up: $app=My::App->new->start('psgi'); $server = Plack::Handler::FCGI->new; $server->run($app)
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10:00 Dandre I have a resource (GET /foo/1234). this route returns a json object that I want to use to populate a form. How can I put those values in the corresponding input fields created by tag helpers?
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10:28 crab write some javascript?
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10:49 batman yay! i'm in perl weekly again :)
10:51 n0n can s/o help with IOLoop and the way mojolicious is started?
10:51 n0n (see above)
10:53 batman n0n: there's not "main event loop" in parent process
10:54 batman n0n: the recurring event will be run in the child process
10:54 batman n0n: which server are you running? morbo, hypnotoad, daemon, ...?
10:54 n0n psgi
10:54 n0n psgi -> fastcgi -> apache
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10:55 n0n $app=My::App->new->start('psgi'); $server = Plack::Handler::FCGI->new; $server->run($app)
10:55 batman not sure if you have any main ioloop then...
10:55 batman i would suggest setting up reverse proxy and hypnotoad
10:56 n0n so mojo works totally synchronous then?
10:56 batman sorry, but i don't know the details, but i would guess plack had the main event loop, which again means that mojo is not running it
10:56 n0n changing webserver is an option at the moment
10:57 n0n i c
10:57 batman fixing that would include magic i believe :)
10:57 n0n found plack::handler::fcgi::ev
10:57 n0n investigating
10:57 batman n0n: right. that might fix it.
11:10 n0n batman: thx
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12:34 andrei hello, I got a threading question: I have a IO::Socket connection in an mojo action, whenever a client access this specific page, a socket connection will be established and then a message will be sent and one will be recieved. Shouldn't this be concurent?. If I access the page with 2 separate browsers, my 2nd client recieves the message after the first. It waits for the first message to be recieved. Why is this happening?
12:34 Mikey socket reads are blocking by default
12:34 Mikey mojo can't magically make blocking operations nonblocking
12:35 Mikey at least not all the time
12:46 Dandre I have a route: GET /foo/1234 In my code I get informations about resource foo/1234 in a hash. How can I put these values in the parameters so tha they can be used in a form designed with tag helpers
12:55 andrei how can I start my mojo server with Starman?
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13:54 sri \o\
13:54 sri /o/
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14:02 sjn \o/
14:03 marcus o/ sjn
14:03 marcus sjn: how's your health?
14:05 sjn still living \o/
14:05 sjn with 4 new holes all patched up and stuff
14:06 marcus sjn: sweet
14:11 crab 4 new holes? did you get shot, or what?
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14:14 sjn crab: had my gall bladder removed
14:15 sjn although that's hardly #mojo relevant :)
14:16 sri seriously, stay on topic everyone!
14:16 sri sooo... how did you all like the latest episode of breaking bad?
14:17 * sjn wouldn't initially compare a #mojo to a fleshy bag of gravel-filled bile, but not what the thought is out.... naaaah. :)
14:18 * sjn hasn't really looked at breaking bad
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14:30 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/app​-mojopaste/blob/master/mojopaste <-- am i doing utf-8 right here?
14:46 sri batman: looks like it
14:46 sri could look nicer with Mojo::ByteStream though :)
14:46 sri my $chars = b('/foo/bar.txt')->slurp->decode;
14:47 sri b($bytes)->encode->spurt('/foo/bar.txt')
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15:14 sri hmm, our cookie jar might be broken
15:15 sri http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6265#section-4.1.2.3
15:15 sri we can't handle the only origin server case
15:17 sri not sure if it should be fixed though
15:17 sri perhaps i'll ignore it until it actually becomes a problem
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15:33 sri should we decide this is a bug, i think the CookieJar api would have to be redesigned
15:34 sri since there is no way to signal origin server
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15:48 sri adding an origin attribute to Mojo::Cookie::Response can solve the actual problem
15:48 sri http://pastie.org/8311133
15:57 sri jberger, marcus, crab, tempire: should we follow the spec?
15:59 jberger When I'm doubt, follow the specs, no?
15:59 jberger s/I'm/in/
16:00 jberger I have much less fear of adding an attribute to that class than say adding a method to the controller
16:01 sri the big question is what's the right thing to do
16:04 jberger Unfortunately I don't have the time to look at it right now: $work
16:04 * jberger trusts sri
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16:07 sri yea, don't trust me!
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16:09 sri another question, should ->origin always be set or just when ->domain is missing?
16:12 batman sri: thanks
16:13 batman sri: i think you should ignore it until it's a problem
16:14 batman buys time to make the right decision
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16:26 sri safari, chrome and firefox do follow the spec
16:26 sri we'll do the same
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16:27 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fRN3wA
16:27 good_news_everyone mojo/master 8e18958 Sebastian Riedel: fixed RFC 6265 compliance bug in Mojo::UserAgent::CookieJar
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16:35 batman sri++
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17:05 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eVlOAw
17:05 good_news_everyone mojo/master 798edfb Sebastian Riedel: domain has priority
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17:26 sri hmm, suppose there's another bug
17:27 sri a cookie with domain can't be equal to a cookie with origin
17:28 sri if i fix this we'll be closer to safari/chrome/firefox... but different from LWP/curl
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18:01 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1YXaDw
18:01 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5fa8130 Sebastian Riedel: fixed a few more RFC 6265 compliance bugs
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18:38 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/m​ojolicious-plugin-linkembedder # anyone got feedback?
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18:53 tianon batman: how about http://youtu.be/8To-6VIJZRE links? :)
18:57 batman tianon: hehe... was thinking more about the general api...
18:58 tianon :)
18:58 tianon I do like the idea; makes it easy to take "user input" and translate it into an attached video that can be easily embedded
18:59 tianon something I've done by hand too many times :(
19:00 batman yeah. me as well
19:07 tianon so, what I'm trying to say is batman++ # great idea for a plugin :)
19:08 batman thanks :)
19:09 tianon as an FYI, I usually end up with some kind of HEAD request to blast through URL shorteners, which is something worth considering for user input :P
19:09 batman doing that now :)
19:09 tianon obviously with timeouts to stop maliciousness :D
19:09 tianon cool beans, I'm stoked then - api looks reasonable enough to me :)
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19:38 batman tianon: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-​plugin-linkembedder/blob/master/lib/Mojol​icious/Plugin/LinkEmbedder/Default.pm#L67
19:38 batman i'm really not sure about this...
19:39 tianon not sure about the name, but like the idea of keeping that extra processing separate :)
19:39 batman ok...
19:39 batman need to think about it
19:40 tianon I realize that the actual method is actually reblessing the object so to speak, but it doesn't really reflect the method's actual user-facing function :P
19:40 tianon actual actually
19:41 tianon too much $work - braindead
19:41 batman new() also rebless the object. not sure if that's right either
19:42 batman i think i need to do it inside rebless() as well
19:46 mst YAY, 2007 era pre-roles perl
19:46 * mst vomits
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19:50 batman mst?
19:51 mst rebless tricks like that are gross. doing it with raw subclassing rather than role composition, even more so.
19:51 mst something involving delegation and a lazily built attribute would work better
19:51 mst and even the dickless wonder of an object system that is Mojo::Base should be able to manage that.
19:51 batman this is async, can't lazy build an attribute lazy...
19:52 batman mst: you're language makes me sick
19:52 batman oops! my typo as well :P
19:52 mst so instead use rwp-style and a future that auto-populates via a private setter
19:53 mst either way, delegation would be an improvement to randomly reblessing yourself
19:53 batman crap! i totatally forgot to do rebless $self, rand 1000; in my code...
19:53 batman or maybe rand($$) even...
19:54 batman mst: i don't have role composition, and i don't see how that makes this so much better.
19:54 mst you -could- have role composition. so far as I'm aware Mojo and Role::Tiny (or Moo) work perfectly well together
19:54 batman i could use delegation though. not the worst suggestion.
19:55 mst if they don't, please do file a bug, Moo should support subclassing Mojo::Base stuff
19:55 batman mst: they do work together. using it at work.
19:55 mst so, optionally, you do have role composition - but honestly I'd largely use roles in such a design to avoid having an abstract base class, and that's not *that* big a deal
19:55 batman i just don't see how it's better. it's cool+different, but not better imo
19:55 mst the thing I'd mostly miss is (is => 'rwp' and handles
19:56 mst having spent years writing both DBIC components and roles ... people seem to have a lot less trouble maintaining the role version, and it's usually less typing as well
19:57 mst so not necessarily an order of magnitude better, but definitely better.
19:58 batman uhm... dbic? so you really want to compare what i'm doing with a such a complex system as dbic..?
19:58 mst no
19:58 mst I'm comparing 'pluggable systems via @ISA and bless tricks' versus 'pluggable systems via roles', in general
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19:58 batman i don't solving simple problems with a sledgehammer. so i'm obviously missing out on some point
19:59 batman do you have an example?
19:59 batman crap. i'm really sorry about all the typos :(
20:00 mst calling roles, which you can get in a zero-dependency single file module via Role::Tiny, a sledgehammer, suggests you've already decided you're not going to approach this logically
20:00 mst anyway
20:00 mst you don't need role composition either if you switch to delegation
20:01 mst so it becomes pretty academic
20:01 batman the thing is that i understand delegation, i just don't understand how roles make life easier
20:01 mst well, you'd be able to extract out the common parts of ::Default
20:01 mst since ::Image being ->isa ::Default doesn't make any sense
20:02 mst but that's only necessary because of the reblessing hackery anyway
20:02 batman i agree on that.
20:03 mst if you -actually- needed to be adding chunks of behaviour to the object on the fly that way, then roles would be a nicer approach than 'rebless into a probably related class'
20:03 mst or at least, a better encapsulated approach
20:03 mst but, as I say, since you can delegate to some sort of extended object instead, it's academic
20:04 * sri would go with delegation... that rebless is nasty
20:05 batman mst: i didn't know you where throwing bricks on the naming, i totally agree on that ::Image isa ::Default sucks
20:05 marcus +1
20:05 marcus (delegation)
20:05 batman marcus: yup
20:06 mst batman: I'm throwing bricks at the isa relationship between the two classes, it'd be wrong even if you renamed them :)
20:06 batman i also misunderstood the role argument. i thought you wanted to apply roles to the object as it got more knowlegde of itself
20:06 batman mst: yeah, yeah. got that :)
20:06 mst if you -actually- needed to change the object, then applying roles to $self would be much nicer than the manual rebless stuff
20:07 batman how is that different..?
20:07 batman it's the same under the hood
20:07 mst then I suggested delegation as an even better alternative
20:07 batman i totally agree on delegation. makes perfect sense.
20:07 mst how is using Mojo::Base different from writing your new() and accessor methods by hand? it's the same under the hood
20:08 batman mst: are you changing the subject?
20:08 mst no, I'm point out how fucking absurd that last question was :)
20:08 sri if you want to be really hip you could also try chansen's latest hack :D https://gist.github.com/chansen/6463123
20:09 batman your last answer is not educational at all.
20:09 marcus sri: singletons are hip? :o
20:09 mst batman: you just asked me "how is using a well tested library to do this better than doing it by hand, when it's the same under the hood", in effect
20:10 sri marcus: in this context yes
20:10 mst marcus: by 'singleton' he means anonymous per-object class to add method overrides to
20:11 batman mst: i'm not using moo when i don't have to.
20:11 batman sorry. just not how i roll.
20:11 sri marcus: like how you can add methods to instances in ruby
20:11 mst batman: I'm pointing out that your "why would you use roles instead of reblessing by hand?" question is equivalent to "why would you use Mojo::Base instead of writing accessors and constructors by hand?"
20:12 mst batman: and, anyway, we've already established you don't need roles, you need to rip that part of the code out entirely
20:12 mst batman: but it was still a silly question
20:12 batman i know. but i'm too tired today, so probably won't change it now. not feeling to good :(
20:12 marcus sri: oh, mixins
20:13 batman mst: it only doesn't make sense, since we have different values
20:13 batman but that's fine. i still like you mst :)
20:13 sri marcus: not quite, instance methods
20:13 marcus batman: I thought you both worshipped cats.
20:14 mst batman: I regard workable role composition as important to writing OO as having constructors and accessors generated for me
20:14 batman marcus: i didn't say we didn't share any values ;)
20:14 marcus sri: oh. that *is* kinda cool.
20:14 sri foo = Foo.new ... def foo.bar
20:14 mst batman: but then again I've spend a lot more time doing that, and I've seen a lot of ways for bless() trickery to go wrong
20:15 batman mst: right.
20:15 marcus sri: right.
20:15 marcus I've also written rebless trickery, and regretted it.
20:16 batman i got quite a complex system @work doing rebless trickery. works like a charm :)
20:16 * sri wonders if p5-mop will give us instance methods too
20:16 mst batman: basically, I would argue that the reason you don't think you need a library for this is that you've not dealt with enough of the ways that it goes wrong yet
20:16 mst batman: I have, so I like to use a library that I know has been hammered on by lots of people
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20:20 marcus mst frequently gets hammered.
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20:20 batman i still think it depends on the problem.
20:20 batman anyhow... i think i need to drink water and get some sleep :(
20:20 batman ttyl http://catoverflow.com/cats/r4cIt4z.gif
20:20 batman oooh! forgot to say one thing
20:20 batman i really like the shortcuts built into Moo mst
20:20 batman it requires a lot less boilerplate than moose
20:21 mst batman: so, I'd vote for "I don't need it" and "that's how I roll" being the overconfidence of naive youth ... but I don't expect to convince you of that, even if sri and marcus seem to be on the same side ... I'll just have to hope you grow out of it
20:21 mst batman: also, get off my lawn :P
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20:21 marcus mst: He'll rewrite it to use delegation tomorrow.
20:21 marcus ;)
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20:22 batman mst: did you miss that part when i said i'm going to use delegation?
20:22 mst batman: what are you doing still on my lawn?
20:23 batman "your lawn" ...?
20:24 marcus batman: it's a meme.
20:25 marcus batman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/You_kids_get_off_my_lawn!
20:25 sri KNOW YOUR MEMES!!!
20:32 batman I know. I just thought it reflected back onto something...
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20:46 mst batman: it does - the fact that my avoidance of direct reblessing is from bitter experience, so I was playing off the old fart / naive kid meme
20:47 * mst sighs
20:47 mst trying to convey things with humour is so much harder to get to work cross language than just telling people to fuck off
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20:48 marcus mst: fucks get conveyed just fine.
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20:52 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/TakP6g
20:52 good_news_everyone mojo/master 97f463f Sebastian Riedel: small optimizations
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20:58 marcus (bønder & handicappede)
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21:18 jberger_ I accidentally all the memes
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21:52 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QlDyMA
21:52 good_news_everyone mojo/master 9274340 Sebastian Riedel: a few more small optimizations
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22:58 zacts the topic is gone
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23:05 Topic for #mojo is now 🎩, indubitably | http://mojolicio.us | http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
23:05 mst zacts: it's behiiiind you
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23:07 sri RUUUUN
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23:47 zacts :-)
23:49 zacts I actually do like the Mojolicious templater
23:50 sri templater is a strange word
23:50 zacts :D
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23:52 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/iMWe4Q
23:52 good_news_everyone mojo/master aa77727 Sebastian Riedel: better deprecation code
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