Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-09-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 phillipadsmith sri: not enough contrast for me. :(
00:18 sri phillipadsmith: then what do you recommend?
00:18 phillipadsmith For me, it would be helpful to have the code blocks offset in some way
00:19 sri phillipadsmith: example?
00:19 phillipadsmith Right now, they appear less pronounced than the rest of the test (for me, anyway)
00:20 phillipadsmith looking...
00:22 phillipadsmith I don't mind the 'Magula' example here, just something to say "hey, this is a code sample" and to let the lighter colours (purple, etc.) stand out a bit more: http://softwaremaniacs.org/me​dia/soft/highlight/test.html
00:22 sri that looks terrible
00:23 sri perhaps my fault... should have said i'm not interested in opinions alone
00:24 sri if you don't like it i want to see examples for what you think is well designed documentation with highlighting
00:25 phillipadsmith sri: well, what you had before was excellent, but I agree re: too much difference from the rest of the content on the page
00:25 phillipadsmith But I hear you re: opinion
00:25 phillipadsmith :)
00:31 sri to put things in perspective... here are some before/after screenshots
00:31 sri http://i.imgur.com/p8M6QpQ.png
00:31 sri http://i.imgur.com/USuxVkI.png
00:37 * sri thinks the new one looks more modern
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00:50 phillipadsmith It's true… just a bit 'soft' or something… I dunno… but it's still awesome. :)
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01:11 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YY9GFA
01:11 good_news_everyone mojo/master 8ea8eef Sebastian Riedel: better gradients
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01:24 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/w2ZKYw
01:24 good_news_everyone mojo/master 2ab4de7 Sebastian Riedel: compressed CSS a little
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01:26 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2yM3wQ
01:26 good_news_everyone mojo/master 25e91cf Sebastian Riedel: fixed typo in CSS file
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01:33 * sawtooth always found the docs hard to read. switched to Instapaper Text and beeline reader to make it easier
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02:18 sri the majority so far seems to like the new version, just a few that would like a little more contrast or really liked that flashyness of the old highlighting
02:19 sri think i might dictate that we keep it, of course i'm open for paches with improvements
02:22 sri btw. the old theme is still used on the dev exception page http://i.imgur.com/E7UA8Jw.png
02:33 sawtooth I like the new version much better than the old
02:34 sawtooth you could go all out and do the syntax highlighting selector (aka CPAN) to make everyone happy
02:34 marty sri:  I'm +1 for new theme.  I would never use it for coding but for reading a web page I think it flows slightly better.  (especially since you replaced the dashed border with a solid line)
02:36 marty ohhh, I see it is updated for all docs.  Hmmm, now I am undecided.  :)
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06:03 McS Good Morning evreybody
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09:35 morton how come Mojo::DOM doesn't have easy way to add text content?
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09:43 morton perl -Mojo -E " say x( q{<q>} )->at( q{q} )->append_content( x()->new->tree([ q{root},[ q{text}, qq{<\x22&\x27>} ], ]) ) "
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11:39 bd i find the new version way harder on the eyes
11:40 bd also on the old version the code stood out more compared to the rest of the text
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11:58 marty wow, ssl becomes a real headache when your website is mostly ajax and DOM updates.  uhhhhhggg
12:02 crab new version of what?
12:04 marty crab: http://www.mojolicio.us/    (the code blocks)
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12:23 marcus sri: it looks better, but I think I would drop the line next to the code examples too.
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12:59 sri marcus: problem is code doesn't stand out enough then, it's what i started with
13:00 sri bd: you can't be serious
13:00 sri here are the before/after images again
13:00 sri http://i.imgur.com/p8M6QpQ.png
13:01 sri http://i.imgur.com/USuxVkI.png
13:03 sri morton: what kind of api are you missing?
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13:15 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/cI0afw
13:15 good_news_everyone mojo/master 33a6c2e Sebastian Riedel: CSS tweaks
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13:17 sri just changed spacing a little
13:17 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#Hello_World
13:25 bc547_ I agree with bd... on the old version the code was easier to read (bigger contrast) an really stood out from the rest
13:32 sri hmm... now the number of people who like both versions is pretty even...
13:33 bd sri: so the lighter one is the new one right? http://i.imgur.com/p8M6QpQ.png the left is new the right is old?
13:34 sri right
13:34 bd then i am serious
13:35 bd i find the ligher theam harder to read. the examples blend into the rest if the text
13:35 bjoernfan I like the way the new one is is going, but it's not really there yet.
13:36 sri bjoernfan: so what needs to be changed?
13:36 sri i want specifics
13:36 bjoernfan The old one was reaaaally hard to read some time when I didn't have all the fancy fonts...
13:36 bjoernfan sri: All I can say is that design is haaaaard, sorry.
13:36 bjoernfan I like that it's not a black background.
13:36 sri bjoernfan: ok, i have no interest in that kind of feedback
13:37 sri like i said earlier... "if you don't like it i want to see examples for what you think is well designed documentation with highlighting"
13:38 bjoernfan Sorry, missed that part. Just gave you my first impression.
13:39 bjoernfan I kind of like Metacpan, they have a light colorscheme, and it's not hard to distinguish text from code. I guess it's the borders and code block background.
13:41 bjoernfan I've always found StackOverflow kind of nice as well from that perspective.
13:41 bd sri: for starters use bold text inside the pretty print http://imgur.com/sDbG1v5
13:42 sri bd: what the hell is wrong with your font rendering?
13:42 sri I CAN SEE THE PIXELS!
13:42 bd did you take the blue pill?
13:44 bd sri: rendering aside you wantet concrete examples, I'd say bold.
13:44 crab that "Morbo" looks hideous
13:45 crab (but i don't necessarily disagree with the suggestion to make the code bold)
13:46 sri you sure you don't just want to make the code the same size as the surrounding text?
13:47 bd i guess it's nosquint forking that up
13:47 sri bold is a total no no
13:53 crab i think larger would be better than bolder
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13:56 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A4n2UQ
13:56 good_news_everyone mojo/master c098982 Sebastian Riedel: increased font size
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13:56 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#Hello_World # and live
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14:02 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8lTCUA
14:02 good_news_everyone mojo/master 8ba160b Sebastian Riedel: fixed small CSS inconsistency
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14:08 sri code now has the exact same font size as the surrounding text
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14:18 cfedde Lavender, grey and orange-red font colors don't stand out well on my crapy dell monitor.
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14:32 sri cfedde: and which good looking light theme does work on your crappy monitor?
14:34 sri marcus: what do you think of the latest incarnation?
14:35 sri (not that we optimize for crappy monitors and font rendering)
14:36 cfedde thanks for that.
14:38 crab hmm. i still can't read the code without leaning forward, where i can read the text quite clearly. blah.
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14:39 sri crappy monitor?
14:43 batman sri: i think it blends a bit too easy. i'm using background to make it stand out: http://thorsen.pm/perl/2013/08/13/toadfarm.html
14:43 batman but it's probably just the good old "change is pain" :P
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14:45 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/HvR8XA
14:45 good_news_everyone mojo/master 3827204 Sebastian Riedel: adjusted line height
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14:45 sri batman: grey background looks horrible
14:46 batman sri: i can make it blink if you like! ;)
14:46 cfedde I'd appreciate the same hue with more intensity would be nice.  It seems that low end lcd don't display fine color gradiations well at all viewing angles. Or it migh be that the modern web is just not for old folks.
14:46 * sri wants to see fancy syntax highlighting boxes... not plain grey or metacpan-ish
14:47 * cfedde goes back to cobol on punch cards.
14:47 sri cfedde: still waiting for an example
14:48 sri it's no different from bugs... telling me "it doesn't work" is useless and annoying... i need to know what actually works
14:49 batman sri: fancy? i told you i could make it blink, didn't i...?
14:50 sri cfedde: for all i know your monitor is calibrated wrong
14:50 crab sri: not sure about monitor, but next week i'm going to have my usual monitor back and then i'll look again
14:50 * sri can read the orange on his macbook air from across the room!
14:51 crab i need to do a bit of rewiring before i can put up my "real" desk
14:51 cfedde If it works for you then that's all that counts.
14:51 crab moving house is hard
14:51 crab cfedde: now you're just being petulant
14:52 cfedde indeed.
14:52 * sri puts cfedde on the list
14:52 marty does anyone know if the link_to helper can adjust the http port?   (ie, 80 or 443)
14:53 sri marty: you can pass a Mojo::URL object generated with url_for to link_to
14:53 marty thank you!  sri++
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15:07 sri oh well... design needs to be dictated
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15:19 marty agreed: design is way to subjective to be decided by consensus, analytics are the best decision tools there.   sri is the dicta.... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD !
15:24 marty interesting tidbit for posterity.  url_for will not set the port unless you also set the host.
15:25 Dandre Hello,
15:25 Dandre please see: http://pastebin.fr/28717
15:27 tianon marty: how about url_for->to_abs->port(88), or something similar?
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15:28 marty Dandre:  If you can create a hierarchy of permissions you can create multiple bridges where each bridge becomes more restrictive.
15:28 marty tianon, lemme check
15:28 sri marty: ->to_abs
15:29 sri oh, what tianon said
15:29 marty tianon++ sri++   Thank you!
15:29 tianon :)
15:38 Dandre marty: you mean I must have something like /foo/:user/:id ?
15:38 Dandre for my routes
15:39 Dandre this is not very convenient for my application
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15:40 sri i think everybody wants pinstripes back
15:41 Dandre even this one I don't see how to do because I can have a user2 can have access to /foo/1 and /foo/3
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15:43 marty Dandre:  no, i meant organizing your content such as (/foo/1 /foo/2) and (/foo/bar/1 /foo/bar/2) etc..  and make anything under bar more restrictive
15:43 Dandre ok this could be done in each action: check whether user priviledges allow access to the resource.
15:43 marty then you would make two bridges, one for /foo and one for /foo/bar
15:44 Dandre But how can I from action get the authenticated user?
15:45 Dandre no that can't be done because access right are centrally managed in a database and can change. The accessible resources are dynamic
15:46 marty yep, that will not work then
15:47 sri http://i.imgur.com/QuDXgYt.png # light theme with pinstripes
15:50 crab why can't your bridge consult the "centrally managed" access rights and return an answer?
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15:58 phillipadsmith tempire: I'm getting a bunch of test failures on Mojolicious-Plugin-JSONP-0.02 … on your radar, or should I open an issue?
16:00 batman sri: can i steal that? :)
16:00 batman i like it
16:01 Dandre (2013-09-12 17:50:14) crab: why can't your bridge consult the "centrally managed" access rights and return an answer?
16:01 Dandre can the bridge get the resource id requested?
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16:02 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/U92eMQ
16:02 good_news_everyone mojo/master 4d48c14 Sebastian Riedel: bring back the pinstripe background
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16:04 sri http://mojolicio.us # and it's live
16:05 sri batman: no!
16:05 batman sri: i thought sharing is caring...
16:06 batman :)
16:06 sri :p
16:07 batman but are you serious? i can't steal that look?
16:07 sri of course you can
16:08 batman that is a-w-e-s-o-m-e
16:08 crab Dandre: sure
16:09 sri not sure about the shadow yet though... still tweaking
16:09 crab $self->param('blah') or $self->stash('otherblah') etc.
16:10 Dandre ok I'll try
16:12 * phillipadsmith remembers that he fixed that already… cc tempire
16:15 Dandre crab: I didnt't get the id
16:17 Dandre but I have found that $self->match->{captures} contain my id.
16:23 marty sri++  that is much better.
16:23 Dandre can I reliably use $self->match->{captures} in my controller?
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16:24 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QfdZWw
16:24 good_news_everyone mojo/master 0b17836 Sebastian Riedel: better shadow for boxes
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16:29 batman sri: could you have a look at this pull request: https://github.com/jhthorsen/​mojolicious-plugin-cgi/pull/3 ? i think it's solved over complicated, but i can't tell for sure
16:30 sri batman: that is horrible
16:30 batman both the module and the pull request?
16:31 sri i've not looked at the module
16:31 batman :)
16:31 sri i don't get why it uses MIME::Entity
16:32 sri Mojo::Content::MultiPart can do all that already
16:32 batman neither do i... i would suppose mojo already knows how to do MIME stuff...
16:32 batman thanks
16:35 batman what about the $headers->content_length and ->content_type? how does that act when you have multipart messages?
16:35 sri perl -Mojo -E 'say Mojo::UserAgent::Transactor->new->tx(POST => "/foo" => {"Content-Type" => "multipart/form-data"} => form => {foo => "bar", baz => "yada"})->req->build_body;'
16:35 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mo​jo/Content/MultiPart#body_size
16:36 batman thanks
16:36 sri you don't really have to care what it is
16:36 sri it does all the work itself
16:37 sri if you do $content->get_body_chunk(...) you can stream everything mojolicious can generate
16:37 sri file, in-memory, single, multipart, dynamic with ->write...
16:41 batman hm...ok
16:41 batman anyway. i've commented on the pull request.
16:41 batman thanks for the pointers
16:45 Dandre I have a bridge to do authentification. Is there a way to limit athfails to 3 for example
16:46 crab you have to keep your own counter
16:48 Dandre ok
16:56 Dandre tempire: hell, Are you here?
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17:34 * sri wonders who will complain first about the light pinstripe theme
17:35 sri Dandre: tempire has been mostly inactive for the last few months
17:41 Vandal I don't like it cuz varables and barewords have the seame color and no highlight for say
17:41 Vandal *same
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18:00 sri haha
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18:24 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/m2OYiw
18:24 good_news_everyone mojo/master 0e0e556 Sebastian Riedel: switched from gif to png
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18:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2L95yw
18:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master e6f4477 Sebastian Riedel: fixed typo in test
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18:35 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rmOq0g
18:35 good_news_everyone mojo/master 1e3f727 Sebastian Riedel: no rounded corners
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19:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/S4uH5Q
19:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master 1121308 Sebastian Riedel: use a different pinstripe pattern
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19:29 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#Hello_World
19:29 sri that looks pretty cool
19:31 sri batman: you'll like that
19:34 Dandre sri: ok I had a question about ssl authentification
19:36 batman sri: looks like dots. isn't that a bit disturbing on most *normal* screens?
19:36 batman retina != normal :)
19:38 sri nope
19:44 tianon on both of my 1920x1080s it just looks gray, but it does look pretty nice :)
19:45 tianon definitely a very slight stripe, but very gray :)
19:47 sri thats the intention :)
19:55 batman :)
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20:15 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ikGMMw
20:15 good_news_everyone mojo/master 3ce30b7 Sebastian Riedel: cleaner outlines
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20:16 sri ok, think i might be done \o/
20:20 marcus o/ little boxes on the help pages / little boxes made of css / little boxes on help pages / and they all look just the same o/
20:20 sri \o\
20:20 sri /o/
20:22 marcus /o\
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21:29 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v4.36 at 0d1d32e: http://git.io/R-YpeA
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21:52 sri hmmm
21:56 sri i'm actually not sure anymore which one i like more :S
21:56 sri http://i.imgur.com/zBELArP.png
22:05 sri i might have made a mistake choosing the second
22:06 * sri shrugs
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22:32 * sri pokes marcus again, in case he has not seen the alternative yet
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22:52 phillipadsmith pinstripes++ bigger font++
23:03 sri oh my, the new REST bible is out \o/ http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920028468.do
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23:08 * sri starts reading
23:11 jamesw 1
23:11 jamesw bah
23:27 sri http://i.imgur.com/POriJPs.png # doesn't look bad without rounded corners either
23:41 sri vertical pinstripes get worse the longer i look at them :)
23:49 sri OH MY!
23:50 sri WHY NOT BOTH?!
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23:52 sri http://i.imgur.com/kKxlf6z.png # classy!

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