Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-09-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:48 batman crap. that took too long :(
00:48 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojo​licious-plugin-assetpack#synopsis
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01:45 batman i'm pretty happy with the module now...
01:45 batman will probably release it tomorrow :)
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01:57 jberger ;-) jberger style api !!!
01:58 batman hehe
01:58 batman not sure if i managed to do that though...
01:59 jberger It's true though I use that pattern a lot now
01:59 batman that you can access the plugin object?
02:01 jberger Yeah, have one helper that returns the plugin instance (just a tiny closure)
02:02 batman i've packed everything into one helper...
02:02 jberger Then all the actions can either just come from there or else other helpers can refer to that
02:02 jberger So how can you do configurations?
02:02 jberger I probably should look at the code ;-)
02:03 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolici​ous-plugin-assetpack/blob/master/lib/​Mojolicious/Plugin/AssetPack.pm#L298
02:04 batman oh man... it's too late :/
02:04 batman i really should get some sleep
02:04 batman just that i think this is too much fun :)
02:05 jberger You guys are all crazy
02:05 jberger When I go to bed in Chicago there are times that all you Europeans are still up and going :O
02:06 batman hehe
02:06 jberger It is fun though
02:06 batman it's 4am here
02:06 batman did you look at the module?
02:06 jberger I am
02:06 batman cool :)
02:06 batman any feedback is more than welcome
02:06 jberger I just got home, I'll look more closely later
02:06 batman no problem
02:07 batman that way i can get some sleep :)
02:07 jberger Go
02:07 batman so many modules...so little time
02:07 jberger Don't I know it?
02:07 batman did you catch http://git.io/ATs7Tg ? # fixed stylesheet helper not to enforce a media
02:08 batman hehe. i guess you do :)
02:09 jberger I did see that, but since everyone seemed to be in favor I assumed it was the right thing to do
02:09 batman it's going to be my 15th mojo module. #16 will be mojolicious-plugin-linkembedder i hope...
02:09 batman excellent!
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02:11 jberger Wow quite an accomplishment
02:12 jberger I really like mojo irc btw
02:12 sri batman++
02:13 batman jberger: thanks :)
02:13 sri batman: you sure you want to pass in the file path and get the content returned?
02:13 * sri imagine that in the future you may want to add chains of preprocessors :)
02:13 batman sri: no. but it seemed like an easy solution
02:13 jberger toastr karka batman
02:13 sri *+s
02:13 jberger Ooops
02:13 batman sri: what is the alternative?
02:13 jberger toastr karma batman
02:13 toastr batman has 3 karma
02:13 batman \o/
02:14 sri pass in a reference to the content, if it wants to preprocess fine, if not also fine
02:14 sri like mojolicious does in the after_render hook
02:15 batman i guess we need filename and content then..?
02:15 sri does the name matter?
02:15 sri my ($self, $content, $name) = @_; then
02:15 batman let me ask something else: do you think it's a good idea to group the preprocessors by js, scss, less, ..?
02:16 sri $$content .= "lulz!";
02:16 sri group?
02:17 batman yes. but i'm calling the "group" based on filename extension
02:17 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolici​ous-plugin-assetpack/blob/master/lib/​Mojolicious/Plugin/AssetPack.pm#L339
02:17 batman ^ that is why i'm passing filename
02:17 batman makes it easier to call external programs
02:17 sri you can always add other features to add preprocessors
02:17 sri like add more extensions
02:18 batman i don't follow :(
02:18 sri app.gzip.uglify.less
02:19 sri you could make special names... app->asset('app.css' => 'foo.css?uglify&lulz', ...)
02:20 batman does that mean that i can keep the module as is for now?
02:20 sri or app->asset('app.css' => [qw(uglify lulz)] => 'foo.less', 'bar.less')
02:20 batman did you look at line 339? does it make sense?
02:20 sri all i'm worried about is the arguments passed to the preprocessor
02:21 sri otherwise it's fine imo
02:22 batman wonder if i can call sass / less with STDIN...
02:22 sri something else you might want to consider in the future, files that are not stored on disk
02:22 sri like our DATA files
02:23 batman yeah. it has crossed my mind. not my itch to scratch, so i will probably wait for a request.
02:33 batman sri: i'm trying to add chained preprocessor support now.
02:33 batman but how can i then remove the default preprocessors?
02:34 batman $self->preprocessor(js => undef); ?
02:34 jberger batman I thought you were going to sleep :-P
02:34 batman jberger: sri messed that up :)
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03:39 batman sri: i got chained processors after killing yuicompressor
03:39 batman ttyl
03:40 batman what i need now is a way to clear preprocessors...
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04:20 * sri wonders if anyone will notice the parts of the mojolicious banner he has changed http://mojolicio.us
04:28 sri hint: big ass rainbow
04:29 sri fun fact... there's a rainbow vommitting raptor in the box now
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04:55 jberger "What's in the box?" :O
04:57 sri i love that the built-in 500 page is now the answer
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06:59 punter Is it possible to store data in a Mojolicious::Controller object, such as for example a numeric id that I can use to reference that controller in a database?
06:59 punter I mean, I would like to do sthng like: $c->data->{'db_id'} = 5, and have $c remember that
07:00 punter ...for the lifetime of the websocket connection
07:02 punter I guess I could store $c->tx->connection instead...
07:05 punter But that will disappear if $c->tx becomes null (if the connection is closed abruptly), and I won't have access to it then
07:06 punter for example, if the connection closes and $c->tx disappears, I won't be able to delete the relevant rows from the datebase
07:06 punter ...because I won't have $c->tx->connection available
07:07 punter Unless of course I listen on $c->tx->on('finish', ...) rather than $c->on('finish'
07:07 punter Shall I do that?
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07:40 * marcus would love to see a rainbow vomiting a raptor.
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07:49 dotan sri: (Testing Websockets doc) s /  it more often than not is quite predictable / it is usually quite predictable /
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08:40 punter Question: Is $c->tx->connection always a 4-byte integer?
08:43 punter It says "Connection identifier or socket" - so, in which cases can I rely on it to be a 4-byte integer rather than a socket?
08:45 punter And, will it remain a 4-byte integer in future versions of Mojolicious, too?
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11:35 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/​mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/ # ready for cpan
11:35 batman any last comments?
11:37 batman I add https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious​-plugin-assetpack/blob/master/lib/Mojoli​cious/Plugin/AssetPack/Preprocessors.pm
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12:21 batman it's alive :)
12:22 batman and without that dreadful yuicompressor :)
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12:43 batman is there some limitations with embedded apps and hooks?
12:44 batman AssetPack works when started from a normal app, but not from toadfarm which use embedded apps
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12:59 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-​plugin-assetpack/blob/master/t/embedded.t # the last test fail
13:17 batman Fixed it here: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojoli​cious-plugin-assetpack/commit/0d213​555548559190a2cecbeb19ab0ee9437745b
13:18 batman sri: is that super ugly? ^^
13:22 sri batman: nope
13:22 batman oh. good
13:22 batman :)
13:22 * sri likes pluggable preprocessors now
13:23 batman i think you can do pretty much anything now...
13:23 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin​-assetpack/blob/master/t/custom-preprocessor.t
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13:26 batman would be cool if someone built sprite support on top :)
13:28 batman and CSS::Minifier and JavaScript::Minifier are pretty sweet. does the same job as yuicompressor, but at the same time yui takes to start...
13:29 batman i wonder if i should add them as dependencies...
13:36 stephanj maybe use them preferably when they are installed?
13:46 batman i am
13:57 sri alternative to sprites support is also embedding, which is a lot easier to implement
13:58 sri <%= turn_this_into_data_uri '/whatever.png' %>
13:59 sri sadly not as efficient yet
14:00 sri http://www.mobify.com/blog/css-sprites-​vs-data-uris-which-is-faster-on-mobile/
14:03 batman ah. yeah
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14:03 batman i was actually considering that as well, but i'm not sure if multiple requests are always slower than embedding a lot of stuff in your markup
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14:09 dotan I really need a good guide for writing non-blocking code in Mojo.
14:09 sri me too
14:10 dotan !!
14:11 dotan I've got code that fetches RSS feeds and saves them to Mongo with Mango, and when I added a bit to unshorten feedburner URLs (with a non-blocking get), something fell over.
14:11 dotan I think I need to use a delay to order stuff.
14:12 batman dotan: delay is always the answer ;)
14:13 marcus The best way to do non-blocking is to block a little!
14:13 marcus :)
14:15 batman marcus: did you see my wirc commit?
14:15 marcus batman: the 'I suck at IPC one?'
14:15 marcus or the 'use my awesome asset pipeline' one?
14:15 batman both.
14:15 * marcus is in a car.
14:15 marcus batman: yes.
14:16 marcus luckily, I am not driving.
14:16 batman i'm on a boat motherf...
14:16 batman (no i'm not)
14:16 marcus you're on a horse?
14:16 marcus with tickets for that thing I like?
14:16 marcus batman: your asset pipeline looks nice.
14:16 * batman have no idea what what you're talking about
14:17 marcus batman: sri should just fix so we get all the IPC stuff from hypnotoad for free ;)
14:17 batman i agree :)
14:17 batman but at least i can start the backend from startup now
14:17 marcus batman: I have no idea how you manage to be so oblivious to internet memes, yet own a cat site.
14:17 marcus batman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX5au0LOJp8
14:17 batman upstart is horrible :(
14:18 batman marcus: that's because i know anything :(
14:18 * marcus phears batman's wast knowledge
14:18 batman i know how to make my gf happy and i know perl. that's pretty much all i care about
14:19 batman oops! "because i don't know anything" i mean.
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14:19 batman haha! super funny :)
14:20 marcus batman: It was a pretty big hit last superbowl.
14:20 batman superbowl..?
14:20 batman j/k
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14:20 marcus :D
14:21 jberger_ o/
14:21 jberger_ batman++
14:22 jberger_ (batman must certainly be winning the karma game at this point)
14:22 marcus jberg \o
14:22 batman i'm tie at work. got 98, same as another co-worker
14:22 marcus jberger: I am flying to your native land on wednesday.
14:22 jberger_ and yes, I had so much trouble with upstart I gave up
14:22 batman i also got the most "--", but.... who cares? ;)
14:22 jberger_ marcus, where will you be, anywhere near chicago?
14:23 marcus jberger_: no, Portland.
14:23 marcus luckily :D
14:23 marcus j/k
14:23 marcus Chicago was nice too.
14:23 * marcus was there for YAPC once.
14:23 jberger_ hmmm, thats quite a long distance, well have fun
14:23 marcus 14h from Oslo
14:23 marcus via Amsterdam
14:23 jberger_ I missed all the chicago YAPCs :o
14:24 jberger_ I only learned Perl in 09ish
14:24 marcus jberger_: I was there in 2006.
14:24 marcus And at the Houston one after that.
14:24 marcus Then I got children and only went once to the US. (For WWDC)
14:24 jberger_ in 06 I was only a Mathematica/Maple/LaTeX hacker (are there any of those?)
14:25 marcus jberger_: probably have a high correlation with emacs.
14:26 jberger_ sadly, the scientific programming world is losing its skilz IMO
14:26 jberger_ Mathematica is the MSWord of programming
14:27 jberger_ (should toastr have a karma leaderboard?)
14:27 toastr Toast here! https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7782244096/h6AB2D231/
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15:12 marcus sri++ # because everything
15:12 marcus does toastr handle that?
15:12 toastr mmmmmm toast. https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6413855488/hF5930F86/
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15:37 jberger toastr: karma sri
15:37 toastr sri has 3 karma
15:38 marcus sri++ # because he so mojolicious
15:38 marcus toastr: karma sri
15:38 toastr sri has 4 karma
15:38 marcus \o/
15:39 jberger toastr karma __leaders__
15:39 toastr sri: 4,batman: 4,jberger: 1,<-: -1,": -1
15:39 jberger Ugh
15:40 marcus marcus++ # I love me long time
15:40 marcus toastr: karma __leaders__
15:40 toastr sri: 4,batman: 4,jberger: 1,marcus: 1,<-: -1,": -1
15:40 marcus :p
15:40 sri jberger-- # for highlighting me all the time
15:40 sri toastr: karma __leaders___
15:40 toastr __leaders___ has no karma
15:41 marcus jberger++ # for making a karma bot
15:41 jberger I wonder what those punctuation marks are doing in the list
15:42 jberger Yeah I think the leader board needs re thinking
15:44 jberger Better to have a web-based front end :-D
15:45 jberger This is a karma bot for mojo after all
15:46 marcus toastr: karma police?
15:46 toastr police? has no karma
15:46 toastr Shut up is a great pizza topping.
15:47 marcus toastr: why you so silly?
15:47 toastr Shut up is a mean thing to say.
15:47 marcus toastr: shut up
15:47 marcus he was practically begging for it.
15:48 jberger The hal part has almost no corpus
15:51 mst you're running a Hailo in there?
15:52 mst y'know what, either way
15:52 * mst drops the bot into his killfile along with GumbyBRAIN
15:52 mst (I prefer watching people talk to such bots without the bot replies ... tis funnier, in a garfield without garfield sort of way :)
15:53 jberger mst the hailo is really limited
15:54 jberger toastr, +the __END__ is near
15:55 jberger toastr, what is near?
15:55 toastr Pepperoni is a great pizza topping.
15:57 jberger Not that it does even that very well. :-/
15:59 * jberger_ resets the brain
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16:00 jberger_ toastr, the __END__ is near
16:00 jberger_ toastr, +the __END__ is near
16:00 jberger_ toastr, ?
16:00 toastr The __END__ is near.
16:01 jberger_ ok teach it with +, but use it wisely :-)
16:03 jberger_ and it only responds to messages at it with a ?
16:03 * sri updates the mojolicious banner some more...
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16:33 jberger_ toastr, karma __leaders__
16:33 toastr __leaders__ has no karma
16:33 jberger_ ok, __leaders__ now only works in direct messages, so it doesn't annoy those on the leaderboard
16:34 jberger_ and the nick pattern is better, so I don't get punctuation-only entries in the leaderboard
16:34 jberger_ \o/
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17:59 sri \o\
17:59 sri /o/
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18:41 marcus sri: I like the new rainbow
18:45 sri \o/
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20:07 batman mst: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolici​ous-plugin-linkembedder/blob/master/l​ib/Mojolicious/Plugin/LinkEmbedder.pm # new api
20:08 batman i got Base.pm on the same "level" as Image.pm, Youtube and friends.
20:08 batman not sure if that mathers
20:08 mst I'd've called it M::P::LE::Link::Image etc.
20:09 mst sri: does Mojo have no equivalent to Class::Load load_optional_class ?
20:09 batman we have Mojo::Loader
20:09 batman not a big fan :/
20:10 mst $@ =~ /^Can't locate/i worries me
20:10 mst $@ =~ /^Can't locate Mojolicious\/Plugin\/LinkEmbedder\//i would worry me less
20:11 batman would you also do LE::Link::Image::Flickr ?
20:11 mst that would seem perfectly reasonable
20:11 batman crap. i really hate long module names :/
20:12 batman but it makes sense, since Flickr is-a Image
20:13 batman maybe i can cheat... need to figure out a parallel namespace
20:13 batman thanks for the feedback
20:18 mst batman: why do you hate long module names?
20:18 mst oh, wait, you try and not depend on anything, ever
20:18 mst so presumably you're scared of aliased.pm
20:18 mst never mind. you'll probably grow out of it eventually.
20:19 batman i don't really hate... it's just annoying :)
20:19 mst use aliased 'Stupidly::Long::Name::But::WhoCares';
20:19 mst my $stop_whining = WhoCares->new(...);
20:19 batman aliased.pm doesn't help me in my shell
20:19 mst ^^ TADA
20:19 batman tab-tab-tab
20:19 mst ln -s lib/Stupidly/Long/Name/But butlib
20:19 mst vi butlib/WhoCares.pm
20:19 mst mst wins: unixtality
20:20 batman haha
20:20 batman mst++
20:20 batman crap. i forgot reason # unixtality ;)
20:22 batman mst: look here: https://metacpan.org/module/M​ojolicious::Plugin::AssetPack
20:22 batman i got two deps :)
20:22 batman i don't hate deps. i just rarlely need it, since i got this awesome toolbox
20:22 batman what is it called again...?
20:23 batman ah! Mojolicious :)
20:23 batman mojo++ # async is now like a sunday drive
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20:49 batman mst: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolic​ious-plugin-linkembedder/commit/e859​a088f73c58f3f4a745def9d0d1fe1d7c567b
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20:50 mst oh gods that's horrible
20:50 mst that's basically Mojo::Loader, except uglier
20:50 mst I ... really don't know why you did that
20:50 mst your previous code was much more sensible, I just wanted to make it slightly less fragile
20:50 batman do you mean the Module::Load part?
20:51 mst I mean the Module::Find part
20:51 batman yeah. of cours
20:51 batman +e
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20:51 batman so how can i get from youtube.com to Video::Youtube then..?
20:54 batman so...i don't get as much as a "heh" from the commit message..? :P
20:55 mst ... I went straight to the patch :)
20:56 mst batman++
20:56 batman i actually just wanted to show you the commit message, hehe
20:56 mst sorry. you know me, I pretty much always read the code first
20:56 batman you crazy kids... like my brother: he never reads the headings. he only reads the actual text...
20:57 batman so... the reason i'm doing Module::Find is to be able to go from flickr.com to Image::Flickr or from youtube.com to Video::Youtube.
20:58 batman the only other way i know is to make a hash table where i can lookup the classname.
20:58 mst I suspect that you will find that such a hash table is actually better
20:58 batman i'm not a big fan of updating stuff which could be dynamic
20:58 mst I mean, do you really want installation of a module somewhere into @INC to change the behaviour of your code?
20:59 batman yes.
20:59 mst then go ahead and use Module::Find, and when it breaks, you get to keep both halves :D
20:59 * chansen also read the code before the actual issue
20:59 batman let's say someone got a ::Link::Image::Foobar module because they think foobar.com kick ass
21:01 mst let's pretend you already made the obvious argument, ok?
21:01 mst I know what you're going to say
21:01 mst I'd just, personally, rather declare in my app which sorts of embed I want supported
21:02 batman ok. at least then i don't need any additional deps ;)
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21:02 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/UIFCvg
21:02 good_news_everyone mojo/master 387d6ec Sebastian Riedel: small optimization
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21:02 * mst sets batman on fire
21:03 batman mst: i think you're awesome to :)
21:03 * sri wonders which dc supervillain mst could be
21:03 marcus batman is on fire!
21:04 marcus sri: obviously he's hellblazer
21:04 marcus (not really a villain nor really dc, but..)
21:04 mst & # beer
21:04 batman mst: enjoy
21:05 jberger_ mmmm beer
21:05 og01 Hey so I have a question, so I have a thing that says "Page not found... yet!" "None of these routes matched your GET request for /admin, maybe you need to add a new one?", followed but a list of the routes i've defined
21:05 og01 one of which IS /admin GET admin
21:05 * marcus is hacking on a sinatra app these days
21:05 og01 how do i tell what the actual problem is?
21:05 marcus sri: Have you seen ruby better_errors?
21:05 * sri sets marcus on fire
21:05 batman sri: if mst was in dc, he would just be "mst. the supervillain"
21:05 jberger_ og01, look at the output, it probably didn't find a template
21:05 marcus sri: https://github.com/charliesome/better_errors
21:05 og01 because the page is pretty contradictive
21:05 og01 jberger_: which output?
21:06 jberger_ log
21:06 og01 jberger_: the term says nothing
21:06 og01 jberger_: ah ok
21:06 * chansen poor's another calvados
21:06 og01 fair enough, i expected the log to match the term output
21:06 sri marcus: think i've seen it a few months back
21:07 marcus sri: pretty sexy. gives you a repl on any place in the stack trace when there's an error.
21:07 og01 jberger_: know of any way to make the term output the log?
21:07 sri marcus: i think miyagawa built that for plack
21:07 marcus so like if it dies in a template, you can rewind it back to the controller, then inspect vars that's in that scope.
21:07 batman og01: do you have a "log" directory?
21:07 sri marcus: actually i tweeted a oneliner for that once ;p
21:07 og01 batman: yes
21:07 jberger_ og it does in dev mode, and when you don't have a log directory
21:08 sri Y U NO FOLLOW ME?!
21:08 batman og01: then look in there :)
21:08 marcus sri: because you hate freedom!
21:08 marcus also, repls?
21:08 og01 batman: no you dont understand i would like morbo, or whichever to output to stdout the same content as the log
21:09 sri marcus: doing that requires PadWalker though
21:09 og01 batman: it doesnt matter i deal with it
21:09 sri another one that should be in core!!!
21:09 batman og01: then remove the log directory
21:09 jberger_ og01, remove the log dir, then tee the output
21:09 batman og01: btw. Mojo::Logs to stderr by default
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21:10 marcus sri: *cowers in fear*
21:10 jberger_ toastr, ?
21:10 toastr The __END__ is near.
21:10 og01 batman: jberger_: perfect
21:10 batman og01: you're welcome :)
21:10 chansen marcus: dude the implementation is  using singleton methods ;=)
21:10 og01 batman: I cant see that here: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Server/Morbo
21:11 batman see what?
21:11 og01 about the logging
21:11 batman oh. you need to look in Mojo::Log
21:11 marcus chansen: \o/
21:11 chansen hehe ;)
21:12 batman og01: i'm not really sure where it says where to log :(
21:12 batman sri: can you help us?
21:12 sri ah found it!
21:12 sri marcus: plackup -Mojo -e 'enable "InteractiveDebugger"; app->plugins->unsubscribe("around_dispatch"); a(sub { die  })->start'
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21:13 sri making it work with mojolicious was a new 4.0 feature :)
21:13 batman og01: it happens in Mojolicious.pm
21:14 chansen sri: cute!!
21:14 sri batman: what?
21:14 batman og01: it's kind of mentioned here: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious#mode
21:14 * marcus watches InteraciveDebugger pull down cpan for him
21:14 batman sri: where does it say where mojo is logging?
21:14 sri batman: tutorial
21:14 batman oh.
21:14 batman og01: got that?
21:15 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Lite#Mode
21:15 sri basics always in the tutorial
21:15 og01 thanks guys
21:16 og01 I do find myself lost in the mojo docs quite a lot, seems I always go tot he wrong places
21:17 marcus sri: it actually works too! Pretty awesome.
21:17 batman og01: maybe you should read through the tut first and then try to get lost afterwards :)
21:18 og01 batman: I have a couple of times
21:18 batman ok :)
21:18 sri let me repeat... mojolicious needs a book!
21:19 og01 I would read it
21:23 batman but who would write it...
21:24 chansen sri: perhaps you would need to provide a idea of the content before you ask for a book
21:30 sri chansen: learning mojolicious, just basics
21:31 sri i bring it up evey now and then :)
21:31 sri something like the sinatra or tornado book
21:31 chansen sri1
21:31 sri chansen2
21:32 chansen I'm not talking of the basics, I'm talking about the core ideas of Mojo
21:32 sri not sure i follow
21:36 chansen I'm a bit unsober, but the point still stands, you need to understand the I/O model inorder to develop scalable apps
21:37 chansen mojo's that is
21:37 marcus I/O models are hard, let's go shopping!
21:38 * marcus stabs broken csrf protection shit
21:43 sri i/o model is not as important when you're getting started
21:43 marcus FUUUCK
21:43 * sri would consider that second half of the book material :)
21:43 marcus no favicon.ico => renders auth file => new csrf token. GRRR
21:44 marcus that's an hour of my life I'll never get back :-/
21:44 chansen marcus: you are probably right, but we play the rules that any company would expext
21:47 marcus chansen: I can't parse that. I agree with sri, advanced material should be introduced later in the book, should start with providing immediate value to motivate the reader.  But cheers anyways :)
21:50 * marcus wishes he was drinking Calvados too, rather than hacking on ruby shit.
21:51 chansen marcus: Either you accept wellformed UTF-8 or you doesn't ;) Read the spec!
21:53 marcus chansen: I accept your characters, I just can't put them together in a meaningful fashion ;-)
21:54 marcus I mean, you're mostly sticking to ascii. но фунны бусинесс.
21:54 chansen I need some sleep, BBL
21:54 marcus chansen: nite =)
22:04 * sri wonders why people get lost in the docs and if there's something that could be done... besides writing a book
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22:04 batman less documentation!
22:04 batman ;)
22:04 sri -.-
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