Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-09-29

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09:41 marcus web socket handling is hard!
09:41 * marcus goes shopping
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09:46 berov Hi all, how do I log fatal errors in the application log? They are by default shown in the terminal where morbo/hypnotoad runs.
09:47 marcus sri: looked into making the socket.io client play well with Mojo WS?
09:47 berov Should I always wrap expected failure code in eva{..}?
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11:52 sri marcus: no
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12:10 marcus sri: I've suddenly realized that web socket resilience is quite hard :) ( http://www.slideshare.net/ff​dead/the-html5-websocket-api slide #27 and on.
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12:25 moritz woah wat? "panic: sv_setpvn called with negative strlen -2 at /home/moritz/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.1​8.1/lib/site_perl/5.18.1/Mojo/Exception.pm line 41.
12:27 marcus moritz: phear
12:27 * moritz upgrades mojolicious and hopes it will magically go away
12:27 moritz that was perl v5.18.1 and Mojolicious (4.26, Top Hat)
12:28 moritz + EV 4.15
12:29 moritz still there
12:29 moritz :/
12:36 moritz ok, I've golfed it down to less than 20 lines
12:39 moritz https://gist.github.com/moritz/6752178 here is the golfed-down thing
12:39 moritz should I submit that as a bug somewhere?
12:40 sri yes, to p5p
12:40 sri panic is by definition not our bug
12:41 marcus if you break Perl, you get to keep both parts?
12:41 moritz unless it's an EV bug
12:41 moritz is that used somehow?
12:41 marcus moritz: then it's *definitively* not our bug.
12:41 marcus also, good luck :p
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12:41 sri may the flying spaghetti monster have mercy on your soul
12:42 * moritz asks in #p5p if that's known somehow
12:42 sri i bet p5p expects it to be golfed down further though
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12:43 moritz sri: right, which is why i ask if it's known before I go to the trouble of doing it
12:43 sri btw. i get it on osx with 5.18.1 too
12:44 moritz \o/ reproducible
12:45 sri other perl versions result in "Can't find string terminator "'" anywhere before EOF at template help/private-profile.html.ep from DATA section line 1."
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14:56 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/EceDww
14:56 good_news_everyone mojo/master 01e68d2 Sebastian Riedel: documentation tweaks
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15:00 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/iT91PA
15:00 good_news_everyone mojo/master 2aee9b8 Sebastian Riedel: a few more documentation tweaks
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15:56 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mlgpMw
15:56 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5e749b4 Sebastian Riedel: added custom validation example
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16:04 jberger sri: I had a possibly interesting idea for ojo
16:05 jberger sub i { Mojo::IOLoop->singleton }
16:05 jberger perl -Mojo \-E 'i->recurring( 1 => sub { say $i++ }); i->start'
16:05 jberger grr, ignore that \
16:06 jberger non-blocking one-liners await!
16:11 jberger oooooooooooooh
16:11 jberger ango.pm!!!!
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16:31 marcus jberger: pass the bong!
16:32 tba hi all, not sure if i've found a bug with relaxed placeholders in routing (or I might be doing something wrong :p) - https://gist.github.com/ian-kent/6754064, urls /arg1/arg2/branch/test and /arg1/arg2/branch/.test should go to the same place, but they don't - adding a . before the final part causes it to match the wrong bridge
16:34 tba (mojolicious 4.41, but seems to happen in earlier versions too)
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16:37 tba (also doesn't happen if the final part includes a /, e.g. /arg1/arg2/branch/test/.something, or /arg1/arg2/branch/.test/something both work as expected)
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16:56 dotan The Mojo::DOM docs say you can do $dom->find('a')->attr('href')->each, but if find() returns a Mojo::Collection, how is that possible?
16:56 dotan Don't I need to do find('a')->pluck('attr', 'href') ?
16:57 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mo​jo/Collection#ELEMENT_METHODS
17:00 dotan MAGIC!
17:00 dotan (I think my error was caused by trying to execute an async get from the command line without starting a loop).
17:01 dotan It should be a FAQ. Event "read" failed: blah blah blah  => ignore the blah, see if you started the loop.
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17:04 dotan No, sorry. My mistake. You can't use the Element Methods magic if find() returns an empty array.
17:04 dotan collection, I mean
17:12 jberger marcus, IIRC you always pass left, that puts anyone on the american east coast in line before you, sorry
17:13 marcus jberger: I think the important thing is that you pass it on ;)
17:13 jberger and look, dotan could have used the i->start!
17:14 marcus iStart [tm]
17:14 jberger iSetMarcusOnFire
17:14 jberger [tm] of course
17:14 jberger :-)
17:14 marcus jberger: I guess it's not completely crazy :)
17:23 jberger maybe if used in void context it could start the loop? hmmm now that might be crazy
17:26 jberger perl -Mojo -E 'i->recurring( 1 => sub { say $i++ }); i'
17:26 jberger no! a scope guard!
17:27 marcus Yeah, sounds a bit like it could be accidentally
17:27 marcus I accidentally the ioloop
17:27 sri don't think i've ever been in a situation where i thought "damn... if only there was a shortcut for Mojo::IOLoop"
17:28 jberger sri: you haven't ... yet :-)
17:28 jberger #thingsyoudidntknowyouneed
17:29 sri oh, and please don't steal ango.pm, i might use it in the future ;p
17:29 * jberger bans self for hashtagging in irc
17:29 jberger sri: I wasn't going to steal it, I was suggesting it
17:29 sri what would it do exactly?
17:30 jberger be a shortcut for the constructor at least
17:30 sri problem with mango oneliner is that you need a uri anyway... so it's not really short
17:30 jberger though maybe ojo.pm could test for Mango and add it
17:30 jberger -Mango=localhost/test
17:31 sri -Mango=mongodb://127.0.0.1:27017/test
17:31 jberger could it prepend mongodb:// for you?
17:31 sri perl -Mango=mongodb://127.0.0.1:27017/test -E 'm->db->collection("foo")->insert({lalala => 1})'
17:32 sri umm... not m
17:32 jberger oh I was just going to suggest then m, then I was just going to agree, why not m?
17:32 jberger oh!
17:32 jberger nm
17:33 marcus sri: ango could default to localhost 27017 ?
17:34 marcus and/or support a ENV var?
17:34 jberger marcus, I like it, -Mango=/test
17:34 sri marcus: already does
17:34 sri (Mango that is)
17:34 sri with db admin i believe
17:34 sri but you can just do ->db('admin')
17:34 sri umm ->db('test')
17:35 sri perl -MMango -E 'Mango->new->db("test")->coll​ection("foo")->insert({lalala => 1})'
17:35 sri that already works
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17:37 jberger does a mongo url define a use for a collection?
17:38 sri no
17:38 sri otherwise i would support a default collection too
17:39 jberger maybe we allow -Mango=/test#foo -E 'mc->insert({lalala => 1})'
17:39 jberger default collections for ango only
17:40 jberger mc('other')->...
17:40 sri i'm not going to customize the mongodb uri spec
17:41 jberger yeah, I was getting there too, fragile
17:41 jberger still I like mc(...) to get you all the way to collection for ango
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17:43 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PZt9Lw
17:43 good_news_everyone mojo/master 3890c11 Sebastian Riedel: mention that the transaction is weakened
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17:43 sri does that seem like a sensible warning?
17:43 * jberger looks
17:43 jberger but its always sensible to mention weakening
17:44 jberger "usually weakened"?
17:44 jberger its probably the right warning, but I'm interested in when it is and isn't
17:44 sri it depends on the setter
17:45 sri you could set a transaction yourself, and it wouldn't be weakened
17:45 jberger oh
17:45 jberger yeah
17:45 sri same warning i use in mango
17:46 jberger looks good to me
17:46 sri whole situation sucks a bit, but it's still way better than leaks everywhere
17:46 jberger indeed
17:48 sri afair dbix::class has a way to detect if a parent object gets destroyed too early and makes the reference strong during destruction... but that stuff scares me
17:50 jberger I personally like that kind of thing, but it might be too scary for mojolicious
17:50 jberger better to just be consistent
17:50 sri you're welcome to explain it to me ;p
17:51 jberger I don't know about that particular black magick, I mean I like Perlish black magick
17:51 jberger I like that Perl lets one do these things, but I also think Mojo is right to encourage no magic unless necessary
17:52 jberger mc(...) --> collection instance
17:53 jberger mg for gridfs?
17:53 sri md(...) --> mango database instance
17:53 sri mm(...) --> mango mango
17:54 jberger or maybe mgr and mgw
17:54 jberger mgr sounds like manager tho
17:54 jberger mango mango sounds like a bad tiki sond
17:54 jberger song
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17:57 jberger mgr and mgw could take a filename arg
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18:00 sri marcus: dunno what you have against elementary, it's quite entertaining
18:00 marcus sri: I thought it was a very pale imitation of Sherlock.
18:01 jberger <3 sherlock
18:01 sri marcus: how many episodes did you give it?
18:01 marcus sri: 3-4
18:01 jberger tho I haven't tried elementary so I can't comment
18:01 sri once you get over the fact that it's not Sherlock... it's quite good
18:02 sri some very cool twists and takes on the classic sherlock holmes characters
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18:06 marcus sri: I guess it doesn't help that Lucy Liu isn't what I'd call a good actor.
18:07 jberger but she is nice to look at, at least circa Lucky Number Slevin
18:14 mst marcus: you're referring to the recent UK one?
18:14 marcus mst: yeah, the recent BBC one
18:15 marcus which hopefully has a new season soon :)
18:21 jberger sri: https://gist.github.com/jberger/6755113
18:22 jberger Mojo::IOLoop::ScopeGuard ?
18:22 jberger mst, does anyone on your side of the pond care that there is an NFL game there?
18:22 sri kill it with fire!
18:23 BinGOs we have proper football
18:23 jberger perl -Mojo -MLoopGuard -E 'i->recurring( 1 => sub { say $i++ })'
18:24 sri jberger: what's an NFL?
18:24 jberger American Football
18:24 jberger they have been trying to build an audience in the UK by playing occasional games there
18:24 sri rhetoric question ;p
18:24 mst jberger: assuming you mean "anyone I know" ... the whole one sports fanatic in my social circle quite possibly does, but he was an NFL fan -anyway-
18:25 BinGOs mst: it's on Channel 4 at the moment
18:25 mst BinGOs: my nipples explode with delight
18:25 BinGOs >:)
18:26 BinGOs which is possibly why I am watching Big Bang Theory on E4
18:28 jberger I don't really have much hope that American Football will catch on outside the US/Canada
18:29 sri there's an american football league in germany, but it's not very popular
18:29 jberger I was kinda curious if this game was seen as a joke in the UK?
18:30 sri most popular american sport in europe is prolly basketball
18:31 jberger basketball is big in parts of europe I know
18:31 mst jberger: it's sort of largely regarded as "you did *what* to rugby?!"
18:32 jberger but the demand for any sport has to grow organically, I don't think any league/sport can hope to entice fans where there isn't interest
18:32 mst padding? seriously?
18:32 jberger mst: hahah
18:32 jberger mst: blame Teddy Roosevelt
18:34 mst also ... what the hell is this stopping every two minutes? padding *and* you need a rest after every bloody play?
18:34 mst we're used to having one team that actually stays on the pitch and PLAYS for the duration of the match
18:35 jberger the stopping is for planning, the good teams try to run plays often to get the defense on its heels
18:36 mst right, because the coach has to think about it and then instruct the team
18:36 mst that's another one - rugby players, amazingly, are expected to have some idea about tactics and execute them without a pause to be reprogrammed
18:36 jberger the tactics are coordinated in ways that basically cannot be combined on the fly
18:37 jberger especially the play on the line
18:37 bowtie_ don't forget the  we don't use drugs, we are a clean sport :))
18:37 mst I'm aware the comparison isn't entirely fair
18:38 mst but it isn't entirely unfair, either
18:38 jberger bowtie_, these guys are probably roided out of their minds, but they all are, sooo
18:38 jberger mst: indeed
18:38 jberger I might say that your football can consist of 90 mins of nothing ending in a 0-0 tie, but I won't :-)
18:38 mst that's why I watch rugby.
18:39 mst I find high level soccer unbelievably fucking boring
18:39 jberger I would actually enjoy learning more about rugby
18:40 bowtie_ the problem is most of the American sports turn a blind eye to there use, is this what we want to pre-mote to our children as fare play
18:40 jberger my Ph.D. advisor played rugby union in school and would tell me about it, but I have seen very little
18:41 jberger bowtie_, its a big deal in baseball, for some reason its not true in Football, yep, double standard
18:41 bowtie_ union is ok but ashes gets my first vote
18:41 jberger isn't ashes a cricket thing?
18:42 bowtie_ O yes
18:42 mst ah, yes, cricket. I only like cricket in a freshly renovated stadium
18:42 bowtie_ lol
18:42 mst that way during the huge amount of time where fuck all's happening I can watch the paint dry.
18:43 jberger my wife and I were in London on vacation a few year back and it happened to be during the ashes, it was fun to have something to watch as we pub-hopped
18:43 jberger mst: it is rare to find a sport were less really happens than in baseball, but then again, I really like baseball so, I'm not sure where that leaves me
18:44 mst I find baseball incredibly dull to watch too
18:44 mst on the other hand, I've happily spent a relaxing couple hours at a time watching *snooker* before now
18:45 jberger that which is dull in the regular season becomes tension during the playoffs
18:45 jberger regular season baseball is something you listen to as relaxation while doing something else
18:45 mst so I think it may be a "some people find some types of boring relaxing where sports are concerned, everybody else just finds it boring, no I don't know why" thing
18:45 jberger I think we are left with, yay sport!
18:46 jberger brb
18:47 bowtie_ playoffs, a sign a sport has mean tampered with by marking people
18:47 bowtie_ jberger: have you herd bob newharts guide to baseball
18:49 bowtie_ jberger: just for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqz9jD-24ZQ
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19:27 jberger bowtie_, that reminds me of Robin William's bit on the invention of golf
19:28 bowtie_ jberger: I was forced feed bob newhart as a child, so I did the same to mine in the car :)
19:29 jberger http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnFbCCgTo4
19:29 jberger bowtie_, my parents did the same with Bill Cosby :-)
19:34 bowtie_ jberger: that rw was new to be but cool
19:36 bowtie_ jberger: my favourite is Richard Pryor, epically the shooting his car sketch :))
19:43 marcus American sports are made for TV. So they inserted a lot of ad spots.
19:47 bowtie_ an advertising vehicle :)
19:47 jberger marcus, I would agree, and certainly the do take advantage, but all the major american sports pre-date tv
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20:03 marcus jberger: maybe so, but american football started about the same time as radio, so I'm sure there's something to it :)
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20:46 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bf4CUw
20:46 good_news_everyone mojo/master d226aac Sebastian Riedel: a few more controller examples
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21:51 sri think i'll release the first version of mojolicious with validation support tomorrow, will be our first experimental feature in 18 months :o
21:51 sri last was Mojo::Reactor in 2.65
21:55 memowe \o/
21:57 memowe looks cool
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