Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-10-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:54 punter jberger: Is there a way to check whether hypnotoad is loading, and that's why there's no pidfile around yet?
00:55 punter jberger: My Ubic plugin has to report status to Ubic, shortly after the hypnotoad command is given
00:55 punter jberger: but doesn't have a way to know whether hypnotoad is loading, or whether it crashed
00:56 punter loaded+crahsed
01:00 punter So I'm making the status reporting to wait for a second, but that might not be enough.
01:00 punter It would be better if we could get a definite answer
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01:13 crab jberger: USR2 is very much guaranteed
01:18 punter guarantee is good
01:18 punter we like guarantees
01:21 marty_ haha.  crab:  I just realized that  you are the reason I chose to use Mojolicious.   I'm cleaning out my bookmarks and found your blog post on "the advisory boar".  haha, that was the final piece of evidence I needed to go with Mojo.  Thanks dude!!!
01:21 marty_ shagadelic baby
01:22 mibfawker shagadelic is obsolete :) its "app->start;" now
01:24 * marty misses shagadelic.   :(
01:25 marty it's so groovy
01:25 crab marty: glad i could help. :-)
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02:19 sri Bender: trust jberger
02:19 Bender OK, sri
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05:33 batman jberger: what do you mean about "deal with that" ? i could add README.pod to the MANIFEST.SKIP if that's really a problem
05:33 batman http://api.metacpan.org/source/J​HTHORSEN/Mandel-0.07/README.pod <-- seems to work
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07:32 sri hmm, looks like some mongodb drivers are also introducing special cursor classes
07:32 sri like aggregate cursors
07:38 sri the new insert/update/delete commands have some interesting properties... you can batch operations together
07:38 sri multiple updates and deletes as one operation
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09:39 * sri hates google groups so much that he decides to build an alternative :o
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09:46 moritz sri groups \o/
09:46 sri groups of sri \o/
09:47 moritz monoids of sri!
09:53 sri \o\
09:53 sri /o/
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10:19 _H33HaW was kicked by mst: _H33HaW
10:19 mst sri: network level trash clearing exercise, don't mind me.
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11:47 crab sri: really?
11:47 sri ya rly
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11:48 sri i spend so much time doing open source support... might as well make it fun instead of getting more and more grumpy
11:49 mst sri: some sort of hybrid forum/mailing list that didn't make me want to kill kittens every time I used it would be lovely
11:52 sri not sure the mailing list aspect is actually that important, looking through our member list, most have email notifications disabled
11:53 sri i'd rather like to make conversations more pleasant first, bit irc-ish maybe
11:54 * sri wonders what the most pleasant to use forum software is at the moment
11:57 * sri kinda likes https://moot.it but it's mostly a comment system and sucks for conversations
12:15 mst personally, I'd much rather use a list for discussions than a forum
12:15 mst having something that properly combines the two seems a win over having both
12:16 batman i know a system that is awesome for conversations. it's called IRC! :)
12:19 marcus batman: That would never work!
12:20 batman i know. not without open sourced wirc or something... ;)
12:20 bjoernfan How about a subreddit maybe?
12:24 marcus what about that forum thing the stack overflow guy did?
12:25 marcus http://www.discourse.org/
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12:29 sri marcus: sucks for conversations... boingboing is using it http://bbs.boingboing.net/t/why-​some-americans-love-guns/11328/6
12:30 * sri was thinking about a mix of reddit, stackoverflow and real-time features
12:31 * marcus reads a lot of reddit, but almost never posts
12:33 sri point is, threads on reddit are rather pleasant to read, copared to most normal forums
12:33 sri *+m
12:34 marcus specially on alien blue :)
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12:56 sri worst thing that could happen is mojolicious getting a very sophisticated example app :)
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13:02 sri looks like someone is trying to tackle the irclog problem https://botbot.me
13:03 batman that looks really good :)
13:03 sri the scroll up for infinite history is kinda cute
13:05 batman wirc got that as well :)
13:05 sri i mean with the sidebar :)
13:06 batman yeah. i like it :
13:06 batman :)
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13:42 tianon their bot also has the option of nice features like automatically seeing text like "gh#13" and doing a lookup in the github repo for the channel to provide title and link :)
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13:44 tianon an example: https://botbot.me/freenode/docker/msg/6699125/ (for reference, [o__o] is the botbot bot)
13:45 sri neat, wonder if it learned that from the channel history
13:46 tianon it doesn't "autosense" the github repo, if that's what you mean; that'd be way sweet :)
13:46 tianon that happens when they initially setup the channel
13:46 tianon and only one repo per channel for that kind of stuff, of course
13:47 tianon they're also working on open-sourcing all of it: https://github.com/lincolnloop/botbot-bot
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14:10 hesco This is my first from scratch Mojolicious project. Seeking help understanding how to build my test suite.  Can I please get some guidance on what appears to me to be a path issue here?  : https://gist.github.com/hesco/6ca5a3fd847f05073f4a
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14:20 * sri wonders if a truly irc-ish forum would work... you click on a topic and get to a very irc-like page, you start at the beginning of the discussion with the original question and scroll down until you reach the bottom of the page where everything changes into real-time mode and you can participate
14:21 sri no single page app feel at all, just an irc-ish design and when you reach the end of the page it becomes sticky
14:24 sri i suppose it would get annoying when you just want to browse multiple topics
14:25 sri or maybe not, if the bottom part is done right
14:25 sri hmmmmm
14:25 hesco so sri: are you imagining that rather than comingled irc threads, each new subject would be as a forum topic, but with an irc like interface for those who want to participate and perma-links to persistent storage on each topic for folks like me who just asked a FAQ-like question?
14:26 sri hesco: nope, i don't like mixing mediums
14:26 hesco I'm thinkng it would lose the immediacy of a conversation and look more like archives
14:27 sri it would be async conversations yea
14:27 hesco then I'm not sure how it would be navigatged nor what exactly you are proposing here
14:28 sri perhaps the irc-ish approach would be frustrating due to real-life delays
14:28 hesco so folks might pick up the thread a week or a year later?
14:29 sri what i'm aiming for is something better than google groups for open source support :)
14:29 * sri aims low
14:30 hesco ah
14:30 sri usually you have a few back and forths before finding the right answer, so i want something more conversation oriented than stackoverflow
14:32 hesco one of the things I like about irc is that, watching a single thread, I get to listen in on and learn from other conversations while hoping someone takes an interest in my own posted question which brought me to the channel to begin with.
14:32 sri hesco: btw. prove -l is your friend
14:32 hesco thanks, will try that
14:33 hesco so I'm guessing, looking at these results that the -l switch to prove just use lib qw( lib );  Is that right?
14:33 sri ye
14:33 hesco sweet
14:34 hesco ok, that was blocking my proceeding with this project since last night.
14:34 hesco Guess I'm out of excuses now and have to actually start producing code.
14:35 sri i don't want to replace irc, but i'd like to merge some of it's properties into a stateless forum for async discussions
14:35 sri chatting like this is effortless and mostly fun
14:36 sri a reputation system also gets harder though
14:37 hesco you mean something like: sri++ (for his helpfulness and leadership) troll-- (for being a troll)?
14:37 sri haha
14:37 sri i suppose that works
14:39 hesco wonder if that could somehow be tied into the irc user system on a per-channel basis.
14:39 sri irc tie in is pretty much impossible
14:40 hesco with future irc clients perhaps displaying my user list with those rankings and sorted in descending order.
14:40 sri you'd have to own the server/network or you reach the limits sooner or later
14:40 hesco have never looked at irc protocol, so unprepared to comment on that
14:41 hesco Could a bot somehow manage that?
14:41 sri this server for example has a chanlimit of 50
14:41 sri so you need many many different bots
14:42 hesco what is a chanlimit?
14:42 sri the number of channels you can join per connection
14:43 sri the reason we can't have purl in this channel anymore :,(
14:44 hesco so you would need to spawn a channel-distinct bot for this, then?
14:44 sri one bot every 50 channels
14:44 sri and you need different ip addresses, since there are limits on those too
14:44 hesco how many channels are hosted by this server?
14:47 sri not that many, but for networks like freenode it gets really crazy
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16:03 hesco Will routes always start at root ('/')?  Or can one configure an installation for a particular path?
16:04 hesco As my starter project for learning to use Mojo, I want to implement this:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YYv9Vk​NdHZDYSvYmtYrZcSJuh8vWy_QtXaNiAhdLlGw/edit
16:04 hesco It imagines all the routes I would be interested in creating at being inside /2014/Volunteer
16:05 hesco But I want what I'm building to be useful beyond 2014 and beyond yapcna.org
16:07 hesco I'm thinking the route I want this app to expose should be: /VolunteerOpportunities/* so that it will be more portable and useful if we host it at volunteer.yapcna.org, rather than at yapcna.org/Volunteer/
16:15 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Lite#Under
16:16 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoli​cious/Guides/Routing#Nested_routes
16:16 hesco sri: had just found this: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/M​ojolicious/Routes/Route#under
16:17 hesco so in my instance config, for any particular installation, I would set an ->under() declaration,
16:17 hesco and using that I could even have a single code base host multiple instances for various hosts and paths?
16:20 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojol​icious/Guides/Cookbook#Rewriting
16:20 sri you can do everything
16:22 hesco thanks, am seeing the possibilities here
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19:14 hesco Why our my routes failing to find my templates?  https://gist.github.com/hesco/69e45d4bdd7810db8173
19:19 hesco Browsing to any of my routes using morbo, I get the 'Page not found... yet!' page, whether the test suite shows me a 200 or a 404 result
19:23 hesco I was GET'ing my POST routes.  When I changed my tests to ->post_ok() checks, I started getting 200 results
19:23 hesco so that question is a never mind.
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20:27 hesco Does Mojolicious docs provide anywhere a key to debugging the common errors it throws?
20:31 hesco I'm seeing an error reading: '[Wed Oct  9 16:20:57 2013] [debug] Class "VolunteerEngagement::Volunt​eerOpportunities::Applicant" is not a controller.', although immediately after that I also see Rendering template "volunteer_opportunities/app​licant/application.html.ep". which it would only have gotten from finding that module.
20:31 hesco checking gives me: syntax OK
20:32 hesco it includes: use Mojo::Base 'Mojolicious::Controller';
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20:40 punter Does hypnotoad have extensive log output, like Morbo shows in my stdout or stderr? If so, what's a good way to tell it where to store it?
20:41 punter Morbo shows full web transactions input + output
20:59 batman hesco: your statement is false. it will render the template without finding the module.
20:59 batman sure VolunteerEngagement::VolunteerOpportunities​::Applicant->isa('Mojolicious::Controller') ?
21:00 batman punter: what is "extensive log output" ? hypnotoad logs to file. default is $project_home/log/production.log
21:01 punter batman: BY setting some env variables, I got full HTTP request + response text in the log
21:01 punter batman: ...in Morbo. I was wondering whether the same can be achieved in hypnotoad
21:01 batman i don't think you got it int he LOG FILE, but you may have gotten it to STDERR.
21:02 batman hypnotoad close STDERR and STDOUT, so you need some other trick to make that work
21:02 punter batman: Yes, sorry, that's correct (I log STDERR too, that's why I was confused)
21:02 punter ok
21:02 batman you're not really solving the real problem though.
21:02 batman i don't know what it is, but it's not what you think it is.
21:03 punter I have a testing server on the internet, I think it would be a good idea to be able to see what goes in and comes out of the server... MAYBE, I don't know
21:03 punter maybe not
21:03 batman probably not.
21:03 batman but if it's just a testing server, then you could just run it as morbo
21:04 punter ok yes
21:08 hesco What does this mean that my class 'is not a controller' and why is my $msg not making it into the stash?  https://gist.github.com/hesco/886001682d449d78b30b
21:09 hesco batman: how is it I would instantiate the ::Applicant class so I can do an isa_ok() tests on it and see?
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21:10 batman perl -Ilib -MVolunteerEngagement::Volun​teerOpportunities::Applicant -e'die VolunteerEngagement::VolunteerOpportunities​::Applicant->isa("Mojolicious::Controller") ? "COOL" : "NOT SO COOL"'
21:11 batman maybe your package ..; statement is wrong
21:14 hesco I've looked at my package statement several times but can look again.
21:14 hesco it ends with 1;
21:15 hesco NOT SO COOL at -e line 1.
21:15 hesco line 1 sounds like the package statement
21:15 batman "looked" ?
21:15 batman don't you have a grep, ack, an editor where you can do search?
21:16 batman the search need to care about case
21:17 hesco I had left off the VolunteerEngagement:: prefix.
21:18 batman right.
21:18 hesco thanks for that, four of seven failing tests now resolved, turning my attention now to the last three.
21:20 hesco and those three are now resolved as well.
21:20 hesco back in motion
21:20 hesco thanks again batman.
21:20 batman hesco: you're welcome
21:30 hesco Can ->render_static() be used to render a path of static files?  Perhaps used in combination somehow with ->under()?
21:38 batman "a path" ?
21:38 batman all files in public/ will be rendered automatically
21:39 hesco ah, that helps.  Can I wrap authentication around public/ ?
21:40 hesco This path should only be accessible to accepted applicants
21:58 batman no.
21:59 batman but you can make your own "public" which is only accessible by authentication
21:59 batman https://metacpan.org/module/Mojolicious::Static <-- have a look at that one
21:59 batman oh. btw: you can password protect "public", but it's probably not what you want
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23:13 hesco thanks for the pointer, batman.  Will investigate that.
23:25 d^_^b so I am trying to use the __DATA__ block but it is still saying template not found.
23:27 d^_^b I copied this example: http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojolicious/Lite#Helpers but errors with "Template "secret.html.ep" not found.
23:31 d^_^b nvm when I copied it @@ wasn't the first part of the line and had leading spaces with caused issues.
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