Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-10-12

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10:05 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/xvkRKw
10:05 good_news_everyone mojo/master b3d782d Nic Sandfield: Made build impervious to temp dir privileges
10:05 good_news_everyone mojo/master fe0f355 Sebastian Riedel: Merge pull request #545 from niczero/master...
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10:05 nic thanks sri
10:06 sri nic++ # good description
10:10 sri i do wonder however if this works on windows
10:10 sri would be nice if a windows user could run the tests
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10:32 stephan48 sri: currently running the testsuite
10:36 stephan48 t/mojolicious/command.t  passes
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10:50 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/6927400  <-- Mojolicious::Lite example of WebRTC and DataChannels.  The gist includes signaling.  I'm curious if my approach is valid.
10:52 sri stephan48++
10:55 stephan48 some useragent fails http://paste.stejau.de/?422 (perl info: http://paste.stejau.de/?423 ) on a windows 7x64
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10:57 sri stephan48: do they fail consistently?
10:57 sri or just random
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11:02 sri could be a side effect of the test before those, but i can only guess
11:03 sri and i would bet it's random
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13:33 stephan48 sri: this is the third run of the same mojo version(i seen them the first time but failed to properly capture the output the second time) these fail
13:33 stephan48 didnt test any other version
13:33 sri stephan48: so, are they failing consistently or not?
13:34 stephan48 3 times 3 failures
13:34 stephan48 3 test runs*
13:34 sri how odd, can you track it down?
13:34 stephan48 hold on let me install the current mojolicious version
13:34 sri wait a minute... you didn't test github master?
13:35 stephan48 so i can test if its maybe an issue with the git version only
13:35 stephan48 i did test github master, but testing cpan stable now
13:35 stephan48 sorry for the confusion
13:35 sri nothing relevant changed
13:38 stephan48 also fails on cpan stable
13:39 stephan48 sadly i have no time atm, will maybe look into it later
13:39 sri well, you're the only one who can track it down
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15:13 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v4.46 at bf31f24: http://git.io/fj0OsA
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15:14 sri hmm... pause is down :S
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15:19 mst perl.org stuff in general
15:30 batman i wonder if it would be possible to add github as a backend for metacpan...
15:30 batman possible = easy
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16:34 batman is it possible to add prototype to a helper?
16:34 mst helpers are methods
16:35 mst so I don't see how that makes any sense at all
16:35 batman oh.
16:35 * batman cuts down on the gin
16:38 batman i was thinking about the functions in my template
16:38 batman https://metacpan.org/source/SRI/Mojolicious-4​.45/lib/Mojolicious/Plugin/EPRenderer.pm#L36 <-- guess i can't hook into that :)
16:39 batman i got a helper l('localize me'). would be nice to do sub l ($) { .... }
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16:40 mst why?
16:40 batman to avoid parentheses
16:44 mst um what?
16:44 mst l 'localize me'
16:44 mst doesn't require a prototype
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16:44 mst perl -e 'sub l { warn $_[0] } l "foo"'
16:46 batman link_to l('Register'), 'register_route_name'
16:47 batman ^ if i had the prototype, i could write link_to l 'Register', 'register_route_name'
16:47 batman not sure if it's less confusing though :)
16:48 batman hopefully more confusing. (trying to make it easier for my frontend guy)
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16:53 mst batman: oh. in that case, I don't think losing the () would actually be clearer.
16:53 mst I mean, my first thought would be "is this localising just the first string or both?"
16:56 batman i don't disagree
16:58 * sri likes parentheses in that case, since he would forget about such special cases soon after anyway
17:01 crab my first thought would be "wtf did they leave an extra l lying about and how did it ever work?"
17:01 crab then some cursing
17:03 batman hehe
17:04 mst I think I'd start cursing -first-
17:06 sri so did crab... "wtf" ;p
17:07 mst that's barely an exclamation
17:07 mst "0.5/10, do better next time"
17:07 crab i think we've established that the thing that can't be done doesn't make sense to do.
17:08 sri my twitter stream is full of ruby drama today :o
17:08 crab what kind of drama?
17:09 sri the serious kind
17:10 sri https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6537587
17:12 mst I actually got downvoted briefly
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17:13 sri mst++
17:13 mst I take it you just saw the somewhat vitriolic comment that attracted said downvotes :)
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17:13 jberger_ o/
17:13 sri \o
17:14 * jberger_ catches up on the backlog
17:15 jberger_ anything big happen lately?
17:15 crab i made and ate dinner
17:16 jberger_ I have gone down the " hacking ->start" route a few times, it's not worth it
17:16 jberger_ crab, well done :-P
17:17 mst batman: well, you could declare a sub in Mojo::Template::SandBox
17:17 * sri got angry at the w3c for supporting drm
17:17 mst batman: to get a prototype
17:17 mst batman: obviously, if you -did- that I would encourage sri to change the package name for the next release
17:18 jberger_ mst down that path you can add things to the template additions
17:19 jberger_ http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Template#append
17:19 sri mst: the package is actually configurable with the plugin, so he could make it reliable
17:19 jberger_ sri oh I like that better
17:20 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojol​icious/Plugin/EPRenderer#template
17:20 jberger_ Populate a new sandbox namespace with needed functions
17:21 sri whole thing is still a pretty bad idea though ;p
17:21 jberger_ probably
17:24 mst it's just a shame you use 'local'
17:24 mst otherwise I could declare a placeholder sub, and bless it into a package with a DESTROY method, and use that to detect a template's being compiled
17:25 crab sri: reading timbl's "can't we all just get along" letter made me even more angry
17:25 Adurah_ That Ruby drama, damn... That'd never happen with Perl. I mean, how many of you are female?
17:27 sri omg, 4chan invaded the comments... that's enough internet for me today
17:27 mst sri: of the post itself?
17:27 sri ye
17:27 Adurah_ /g/ get in on the action?
17:27 mst shame - 4chan vs. HN sounds kinda hilarious actually
17:27 mst Adurah_: I think you thought that was funny.
17:28 mst Adurah_: given the number of female perl hackers, it really, really isn't.
17:29 Adurah_ I was inquiring.
17:30 crab nice try.
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17:31 mst think before you speak next time
17:32 jberger_ Wow seems like I have missed many dramas :-/
17:34 crab especially my dinner.
17:35 sri is making fun about the lack of female programmers in the perl community sexist humor? (at least that's how i understood it)
17:37 sri not that it made me laugh... but that's besides the point
17:38 crab i guess one could quibble about the exact definition of "sexist humour", but the whole "there aren't any women here" thing is boring at best and very insulting at worst.
17:38 mst that's a better unpacking of what annoyed me.
17:39 crab (and if there were only one or two women here, as there sometimes are, does it mean they don't matter?)
17:39 sri i see your point
17:42 crab hmm, i wonder if there are any mojo apps that use inotify to reload file contents.
17:42 crab seems like it might be tricky to coordinate that across processes.
17:43 jberger_ Some people feel safe being idiots because they hide behind the anonymity of the internet, I always feel that since the readers are anonymous too we must take special care to ensure that we always watch what is said, even if we think no one is watching
17:44 sri crab: if you're using EV there's https://metacpan.org/module/EV#STAT-WATCH​ERS---did-the-file-attributes-just-change
17:47 crab that's not exactly what i need. well, it's not exactly a mojo question, but let me outline what i'm doing:
17:48 jberger_ On a very different topic, at $work we have a built in house functional layer/sugar for python, does anyone know if such a thing exists for perl?
17:49 crab i have a bunch of files containing some metadata and some content. right now, i have a separate thingy (a git pre-commit hook) that extracts the metadata from each file and stores it in a sort of index, one line of a=b,c=d settings per file. and in my mojo app, i read that file on every request and find the correct file(s) based on the request and the metadata index.
17:50 crab but the whole index thing is clumsy, and if i could just extract the metadata from all files on startup and build the index in memory and update it when files are changed or added, it would be very convenient. but i can't afford to re-read all the files on every request in each child.
17:51 sri does sound clumsy
17:52 crab what i have now works fine. it's just one of those things that leaves a bad taste.
17:52 sri why not use a database?
17:54 mst I'd jam it into sqlite and then have an inotify process that updated the sqlite db
17:54 sri even if it's just sqlite
17:54 sri heh :)
17:54 sri or have the commit hook update sqlite
17:55 crab commit hook update sqlite wouldn't work, because the git repository where i'm making changes is on my laptop, and the app is on the server. but hmm.
17:55 crab i'll try it and see.
17:55 crab thanks.
17:56 sri post-receive hook?
17:59 * sri heads off for some ice cream o/
18:00 crab yeah. that'll keep my local commits snappy and move the work to where it's really needed.
18:04 Adurah_ Darn it mountain, you needn't be one of those "right to be offended" folks.
18:05 mst what?
18:07 Adurah_ You made me miss all the responses for... 40 seconds.
18:10 crab oh. or i could just forget sqlite, read the posts on startup, and in the post-receive hook send USR2 to hypnotoad!
18:14 mst I am not a 'right to be offended' person
18:15 mst in fact, I specifically fought those people off because the perl community has better things to do than play social justice tumblr warrior
18:15 mst however, part of the justification for that was that we don't tolerate blatantly dickish behaviour in the first place
18:15 Adurah_ Seemed pretty benign to me.
18:16 mst 17:38 <@crab> i guess one could quibble about the exact definition of "sexist  humour", but the whole "there aren't any women here" thing is  boring at best and very insulting at worst.
18:16 Adurah_ But, that doesn't prevent kills.
18:16 mst 17:39 <@crab> (and if there were only one or two women here, as there sometimes  are, does it mean they don't matter?)
18:16 mst ^^ crab nails it
18:16 mst something that has an effective implication that the female members of our community don't matter
18:16 mst is not benign, is not acceptable, and is going to get you LARTed
18:17 Adurah_ Nor does it prevent tirades...
18:18 mst this is not a tirade. this is me attempting to explain to you exactly how you fucked up, so that you can improve your behaviour in future.
18:20 Adurah_ Indeed, I'll not deign to offend the two.
18:21 sri Adurah_: i really don't like your attitude
18:22 Adurah_ I'm not here to be likable, I'm here to be marginally useful.
18:22 mst and having a shitty and offensive attitude towards female contributors moves your utility rapidly into the negative
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18:24 mst see, the thing you're missing is: this offends me, as a human being
18:24 Adurah_ I came to that conclusion lines ago.
18:24 mst it's nothing to do with being offended 'on behalf of' people, it's about finding your unwillingness to show appropriate behaviour unacceptable
18:25 Adurah_ You're spending too much time and energy on my benign line.
18:26 Adurah_ I can't be marginally useful if this continues.
18:26 mst you haven't so far showed any sign of understand why it wasn't benign and why you were in error
18:27 Adurah_ When are you not here, I may be able to be marginally useful then.
18:29 mst the current obstacle is not my presence but your intransigence
18:30 mst given sri also disagrees with your attitude, your utility to the project is going to remain negative until you understand and internalise the lesson we're trying to teach you.
18:30 Adurah_ If either or both of us stop talking about the issue, maybe there'll be another conversation.
18:30 Adurah_ I'm here to learn about mojo, not what others think is offensive.
18:31 Adurah_ was kicked by mst: Adurah_
18:31 mst sri: this is still your channel, but if you're going to unban him can I have a 5 minute warning so I can get a K-line in place first please?
18:33 sri mst: if you want him permanently banned you should k-line, i only do temp bans
18:33 mst traditionally I lift you-are-being-a-dickwaving-idiot bans after 24h
18:34 mst would that be acceptable?
18:34 sri i usually give it a few days
18:34 mst fair enough. if I forget, feel free to JFDI and then insult me for being a slacker :)
18:35 sri ooooooh, shiny new book!!! http://aosabook.org/en/index.html
18:36 sri and look, audreyt contributed
18:38 * mst sighs # http://paste.scsys.co.uk/271612
18:38 crab i thought the aosabook was old?
18:39 crab aha. a new old book.
18:40 jberger_ mst: good job guy
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19:37 sri hmm, adding basic support for fallback servers to mango is much easier than i expected
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19:43 batman sri++
19:45 sri https://github.com/kraih/mango/commit/7​599a5d3ada533960737dc0c5f8ec7455603987f
19:45 sri support for replica sets would only be a small step from here, but i don't have the time to figure out how to test it properly
19:46 sri would prolly have to make a fake test server and replay captured messages or so
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19:50 batman sri: what happens if you have tried all the hosts?
19:50 batman will it simply fail, or should it try again?
19:50 sri then it bails with the last error
19:50 batman ok
19:50 sri also tested :)
19:51 batman is the list reset on each connect?
19:51 sri ye
19:51 batman ok
19:51 batman sweet
19:52 sri also tested :)
19:52 batman ah! missed line 172 on the first read
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19:52 batman nice
19:52 sri https://github.com/kraih/mango​/blob/master/lib/Mango.pm#L164
19:52 sri very funky line ;p
19:52 sri maybe rjbs has a point with the ->@* operator
19:54 mst I'd've done the ||= separately
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19:59 batman me as well. my $hosts = shift || [@{$self->hosts}];
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20:07 sri Mango.pm could use some cleaning up in general... once insert/update/delete are gone things will get a lot better
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20:55 bpmedley Anyone know WebRTC / used it much with mojo?
20:55 sri not used it yet
20:56 sri a book that covers it is on my todo list though :)
20:57 bpmedley Hrmm, we do need a book written by a keep it simple expert.. :)
20:59 sri http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920028048.do # this one is pretty readable so far
20:59 bpmedley Here is a gist for the curious: https://gist.github.com/brianmed/6927400.  Uses WebRTC and data channels.  Any hints on improvemnts welcome.
21:01 sri new mango is out btw
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22:05 hpekdemir can someone have a look at this please? http://nopaste.info/92e827052c.html
22:06 hpekdemir I try to setup nginx with websocket option.
22:07 hpekdemir firefox konsole shows error like in nopaste. websocket works when I put a port number in the url. like bla:8080 (hypnotoad) or bla:3000 (with morbo)
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22:23 jberger_ bpmedley: some reason you don't use the built in json handling?
22:23 bpmedley jberger_: No, that's a todo enhancment.  I just copied and pasted some code.
22:24 jberger_ Understood, but it is an easy switch
22:24 jberger_ :-)
22:25 bpmedley Totally agreed.  If I keep this approach that will be the 1st thing I change.
22:27 jberger_ Through now as I read about webrtc maybe you want the speed of json::xs
22:27 jberger_ Though I don't especially like relying on the author
22:31 bpmedley Understood, right now the code is just a cobbled together proof of concept… :)
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23:34 jberger__ sri: care to look at a post I have been working on for blogs.perl.org?
23:34 jberger__ https://gist.github.com/jberger/6956112
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