Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-11-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:45 jberger_ sri: https://github.com/jberger/App-MojoS​lides/blob/master/ex/goodbye.html.ep
00:47 sri jberger: neat
00:54 jberger_ sri: does this look like a reasonable starting list? https://github.com/jberger/App-MojoSlides/blo​b/master/lib/App/MojoSlides/MoreTagHelpers.pm
00:54 jberger_ meaning do you see something obvious (and not unusable) that I missed?
00:54 sri jberger: nope
00:54 jberger_ cool
00:55 jberger_ I will try to ship this tonight, so that mst use it when he takes a look
00:55 sri figcaption, ruby... seriously?
00:55 jberger_ I just did a cursory glace
00:55 jberger_ glance
00:55 sri lol
00:55 jberger_ they aren't useful for me, but they might help someone
00:55 sri my nope was an answer to your first question!
00:56 sri i would start with common tags
00:57 sri and i doubt you really need form tags
01:07 jberger_ I started with the list from HTML::Tags and then went through w3schools seeing what each tag did, if it didn't seem unreasonable I left it in
01:08 jberger_ I'm sure the list could be smaller
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01:38 powerman to be honest, I don't understand why you guys love these html helpers
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01:38 powerman I always expect my html templates to be designed by … designer
01:38 powerman and I don't think normal web designer will love to see all these helpers instead of usual tags
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01:44 powerman if you wanna save some typing - there are Zen Coding
01:47 powerman if you wanna keep templates clean - designer most likely will have to replace helpers with usual tags anyway, partially 'cos he don't know mojo and can't modify template using helpers, partially 'cos she wanna see something familiar
01:50 sri some of us are programmers and designers
01:51 powerman yeah, this is one of two use-cases I see. second is mega-uber cool designer who will write css-only design after few glance look at mojo template :)
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01:53 sri guess what... haml, sass, slim, jade, less... and so on... are actually popular
01:54 powerman I see why it makes sense to use variables in css, but everything else… I'm really shocked.
01:54 sri the notion of designers that can't program is antiquated, you, sir, are a dinosaur
01:54 powerman yep, I know :)
01:56 jberger_ powerman, I've never really been a "web designer"
01:57 jberger_ and close tags irk me when I can do line-oriented things that aren't ambiguous
01:57 jberger_ that really is the big thing for me
01:58 jberger_ remember too that this is a presentation framework, it really isn't meant as web design, its more an abuse of Mojo::Template and rendered via a browser
01:59 jberger_ powerman, I am really comfortable with LaTeX/Beamer: https://github.com/jberger/Defen​se/blob/master/introduction.tex
02:00 jberger_ note the use of \item as a line oriented bullet
02:00 jberger_ and this is where I borrowed my overlay semantics, see the <2-> laying around
02:01 powerman ohh. TeX always was too wordy and unreadable for me
02:02 powerman and same for *roff markup, I've even developed backend for asciidoc to generate man pages
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02:26 sri culture clash with the tightly integrated job queue will be fun, it is completely blocking, just the enqueue operation can be non-blocking :)
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14:19 * sri yawns
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17:32 jberger_ App::MojoSlides 0.04 is out! maybe now I can work on my talk (it feels like I've said this already)
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17:55 memowe jberger_++
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19:53 jberger_ I got bored working on these things, part 2 of my non-blocking series is almost done as a result :-)
19:56 sri \o/
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19:56 jberger_ introducing delays
19:57 jberger_ turns out, just this (and only for parallel requests) will make for a complete posting
19:57 jberger_ I won't even get to sequential steps, $delay->begin(0) or $end = $delay->begin (really)
19:58 jberger_ more fodder for the series though, I'm not complaining :-D
19:58 jberger_ https://gist.github.com/jberger/7293377
20:02 * sri likes
20:05 * sri thinks he will handle workers going away in the job queue with timeouts, and all workers will be running a repair method every now an then to flag jobs of dead workers as failed
20:06 jberger_ sri: that reminds me of this: https://gist.github.com/jberger/5153008
20:07 sri every worker will fork a new process to actually process the job, so they are always responsive and can keep up a heartbeat timestamp in the worker registry
20:07 jberger_ oh, then its not so similar
20:08 jberger_ go sri go!
20:08 sri not at all, job queue is all about parallelism
20:08 * jberger_ hands sri some gatorade (you can spike it if you like)
20:08 jberger_ I'll be interested to see it
20:09 * sri has never tried gatorade :o
20:11 sri core functionality is still "app->queue->add_task(foo => sub {...});" for code to run in workers, "$self->queue->enqueue(foo => 'whatever!');" to start a new job from a controller, and "./myapp.pl queue worker" to start a worker daemon
20:12 sri for version 2 i also want "./myapp.pl queue web" for a http admin interface with dashboard... killing/restarting jobs and stuff
20:13 johnny5_ when do you expect v1? :D
20:13 sri not too long now, i've got the basics working
20:14 sri some things still need some thought... like worker daemon only handling certain types of tasks
20:15 sri "./myapp.pl queue worker --type foo --type bar"
20:15 sri and perhaps a few features i can remove, i want it to be as minimalistic as possible
20:17 jberger_ sri: how do you handle the forking?
20:17 jberger_ do you use some manager, or presumably you rolled your own?
20:17 moritz .oO( fork() ? )
20:17 sri there is only one manager and one worker, managing is really simple
20:18 sri and the worker dies after every job
20:18 jberger_ moritz, true, but I was thinking of things like AnyEvent::Util::fork_call
20:18 sri the whole worker daemon is 100% blocking
20:18 sri no event loop
20:19 sri you send tasks there that don't fit into a non-blocking mojolicious app
20:19 jberger_ oh, this is in response to the "how do I kick off a database cleanup command every hour" question that we get sometimes?
20:20 sri job looks like spp->queue->add_task(foo => sub { my ($queue, $seconds) = @_; sleep $seconds; });
20:20 sri :)
20:20 sri or sending mail, or kicking off map-reduce
20:20 jberger_ gotcha, cool!
20:20 sri the usual resque kinda stuff
20:21 jberger_ I was thinking of a very different thing, but this is useful too
20:21 sri just very very simple and integrated into mojolicious
20:21 jberger_ as is the mojo way
20:21 jberger_ I hope you'll like the way I slip lots of the "nicely integrated" things into this example I'm writing
20:21 sri the self repair functionality will hopefully make it very solid too
20:23 jzawodn mojo work queue++
20:23 jzawodn that'd make it easy to replace some ancient cron-base stuff we've got that kinda sucks
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20:35 sri my main worry atm is making it accessible for unit tests
20:36 sri will prolly end up with something like "$t->app->queue->process_all;" which processes jobs until the queue is empty and then just returns
20:36 sri kinda a fake worker running in the current process
20:38 jzawodn yeah, testing could be an 'interesting' problem
20:38 sri johnny5: maybe not that soon, still got some work to do :)
20:44 sri only timed jobs in the future would be a problem as far as i can see
20:48 sri maybe i'll leave those for version 2/3 too :)
20:52 jberger_ https://twitter.com/joelaberg​er/status/397103859174105088
20:57 sri jberger++
21:11 Fatalnix jberger always has cool ideas
21:13 jberger_ its amazing how much text I had to use to explain that short delay example!
21:13 jberger_ Fatalnix, thanks!
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21:52 marcus hmm?
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21:58 * sri hugs purl
21:58 purl sri: get off me, you botvert!
21:58 marcus purl: jerk it!
21:58 purl marcus: spigot: WELL THE SAFEWAY LADY CLAIMS SHE HAS NO IDEA IF I'VE PURCHASED AN... spigot: ...ADEQUATE RATIO OF TISSUE PAPER/HUSTLERS deuce: DUDE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ASK THE MANAGER deuce: THEY DON'T TELL THE FRONT-LINE GRUNTS THAT KIND OF STUFF spigot: STUFFING HER HEAD INTO THE CAULIFLOWER
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22:57 jwb Hi, I was wondering: How should I translate calls like "app->hook(...blah...)" in Mojo::Lite to full Mojo apps. There I don't have syntactic sugar, how can I get the "app" object?
22:58 mst jwb: your app class has a setup method where $self is the app
23:00 jwb ah, so all the stuff written directly in the Mojo::Lite app happens in the setup (or startup) function?
23:00 jwb in the full app
23:00 mst well, hooks, helpers and routing setup at least
23:00 mst then the logic goes into controllers
23:00 jwb I see, thanks!
23:01 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Guides/Growing
23:16 sri yay, my nexus 5 is on the way
23:21 jberger_ sri: I hope you enjoy ... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
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23:22 sri jberger: i certain...ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!

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