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IRC log for #mojo, 2013-11-14

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Time Nick Message
00:03 dsteinbrunner batman: just tried installing Mojo::Redis and getting a test failure
00:05 dsteinbrunner http://pastie.org/private/hot0zsivwwnjii4sszpfg
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01:07 jberger_ ETOOMUCHBACKLOGWHILEIAMOUTOFTOWN
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04:53 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/RQewKA
04:53 good_news_everyone mojo/master 18a5596 Sebastian Riedel: improved IIS and WebSphere compatibility of Mojo::Message::Request (closes #564)
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08:34 marcus heh, configuration management is such a mess in all the ruby frameworks, afaik
08:34 marcus <3 Mojolicious::Plugin::ConfigLoader
08:35 marcus -Loader
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08:38 marcus sri: btw, I'm on WONTFIX for the eval change
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09:28 batman marcus: do you have time to look at the redis bug?
09:28 marcus batman: I didn't know there was a redis bug
09:28 batman dsteinbrunner: i'm pretty sure it's just a bad test/timing issue
09:28 batman marcus: the link from dsteinbrunner ^^^
09:28 batman dsteinbrunner: cpanm -n Mojo::Redis :/
09:29 batman i will look at it, just not now as i'm almost burned out
09:29 marcus batman: http://www.cpantesters.org/distro/M/Mojo-Redis.html#Mojo-Redis-0.9919 we do have quite a few failures
09:30 batman i know :(
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10:27 marcus batman: I'm sort of drowning in obj-c bugs atm, but will get back to Mojo-Redis later
10:30 Dandre hello,
10:31 Dandre in this file: https://metacpan.org/source/JHTHORSEN/Mandel-0.10/lib/Mandel/Document.pm I don't understand what
10:31 Dandre has data => sub { +{} };
10:31 Dandre exactly does
10:32 Adurah Mandel huh...
10:34 moritz t declares an attribute named 'data'
10:34 moritz *it
10:34 moritz and the  sub { +{} }  is what constructs the default value
10:35 moritz which is an empty hash reference, {}
10:35 moritz the + is to disambiguate empty hash references from empty blocks of code
10:36 Dandre ok clear. Thanks a lot!
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10:48 batman Dandre: unary plus: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#Symbolic-Unary-Operators
10:49 batman Dandre: are you actually using Mandel or just poking around? let me know if there's anything else i should know :)
10:53 Dandre I am just interested in get/set methods ATM. But maybe some day I will use Mandel
10:54 Dandre now it is marked as alpha so I will not use it as a whole
10:54 Dandre batman: are you the author of Mandel?
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10:57 batman yes
10:58 batman Dandre: it's mostly experimental because Mango is experimental :)
11:00 Dandre ok
11:00 Dandre do you know wether Mango will be released?
11:02 batman it's released. but the api might change some
11:02 batman i doubt it matters to Mandel though.
11:02 batman i would like to use it a bit more myself before marking it as stable though.
11:02 batman if you start using it, let me know and i'll post my changes in #mojo before releasing a new version
11:03 Dandre ok
11:04 Dandre I haven't understood all the import stuff and Model / Type usaged
11:05 batman why do you need to understand the inner workings? can't you just use the SYNOPSIS ?
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11:10 Dandre I don't understand the synopsis too Maybe I have to try and see what's hapening
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11:49 batman Dandre: oh. that's no good.
11:49 batman please tell me exactly what you're not understanding and i'll have a look at it.
11:53 jberger_ Dandre, do you know DBIx::Class?
11:53 jberger_ or other ORM systems?
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12:02 hrupp batman: Hi, I already  in #mojouse Mandel, and it would be fine when you'll post your changes
12:02 hrupp batman: Hi, I already use Mandel, and it would be fine when you'll post your changes
12:03 batman hrupp: cool! even sweeter if you told me your dislikes :)
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12:11 hrupp batman: It would be great, when a M::Model would have $m->fields() and $m->field('some_field_name')->type accessors
12:11 batman getting meta data back from the field definition?
12:12 batman wanna send me a patch? ;)
12:12 hrupp yes
12:13 hrupp I'am busy at now, but in next few days ... yes ;)
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12:42 iankent hi all
12:43 iankent ive made a small change to mojo eventemitter to add support for registering multiple events at once - something we want to use here, but is it something that could be considered for inclusion in mojo? just wanted to discuss before I send a pull request
12:43 iankent diff at https://github.com/ian-kent/mojo/compare/kraih:master...master
12:51 jberger_ iankent, while I personally usually like that kind of interface, I think a possible concern is that it limits the future api of the on method
12:52 jberger_ perhaps later if we wanted to add some option switches for example
12:53 iankent fair point - for us it led to a much cleaner syntax, but i'd only really considered our use case
12:53 jberger_ also, patches that improve the core are more highly considered than those that simply present the developer a cleaner interface
12:53 jberger_ perhaps see if there are places in the mojo core that register multiple events
12:54 iankent will have a look, hadn't even thought of that
12:54 jberger_ almost all of the functionality in the mojo core is actually used by mojo somewhere
12:55 jberger_ there are very few user-only features
12:56 iankent will have a look at the rest of core, see if anything can be cleaned up a bit - though tbh, we can happily extend eventemitter to add the multiple ->on support and extend from that instead, just thought other developers might like it
13:11 Dandre (2013-11-14 12:53:47) jberger_: Dandre, do you know DBIx::Class?
13:11 Dandre (2013-11-14 12:53:58) jberger_: or other ORM systems?
13:11 Dandre no, I am relativly new to perl oop
13:11 purl okay, Dandre.
13:13 jberger_ in that case, I recommend you learn a little bit about ORM (Object-Relational Mapper) systems
13:13 jberger_ of course Mandel is an ODM (Object-Document Mapper) but the concept is similar
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13:22 batman hrupp: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mandel # please don't use rt. it makes my brain hurt :(
13:34 dsteinbrunner then update your bug tracker metadata....
13:45 hrupp batman: ok, I'll use github
13:45 batman awesome :)
13:46 batman dsteinbrunner: right. please send me a patch.
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14:31 sri iankent: first thing that comes to mind is the inconsistency between ->on and ->once, your documentation also doesn't fit into context
14:31 sri the return value doesn't seem very elegant
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14:33 sri we return the callback so you can unsubscribe it again, those pairs are not very useful for that
14:35 batman @cb = $self->on(...) ?
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14:40 dsteinbrunner batman: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mandel/pull/4
14:40 iankent batman: tried returning an array, had issues with order of values returned
14:40 batman iankent: that's weird. should be the same order as you put in...
14:40 batman dsteinbrunner: haha! awesome :)
14:41 iankent sri: admittedly its not as clean as it could be, but it was a quick proof of concept for discussion - if its not likely to be included in core, then I won't spend time making it nicer :) having said that, it does return the callbacks so they can be unsubscribed
14:42 iankent batman: they came out in reverse if I used values - the other option was to build an array while adding to the events hash, but that made the code look even nastier
14:42 batman iankent: are you using a hash?
14:42 iankent batman: ahhhhhhhh
14:42 iankent batman: yes, but consuming it off the array - but that assignment caused unpredictable ordering
14:43 batman can't use hash if you want order in the universe :)
14:43 dsteinbrunner batman: now you can update all your other modules
14:43 sri for it to be accepted into core every part of it has to be elegant
14:43 iankent yeah, in hindsight it would have been cleaner to use the @_ array directly
14:43 batman dsteinbrunner: ETOOMUCHWORK
14:44 batman dsteinbrunner: i better make a patch to "mypp" so it can do it for me........ :/
14:44 sri last thing i want is more wantarray :S
14:44 batman wantarray--
14:44 moritz first thing I want is more warranty :-)
14:44 batman moritz: seriously?
14:44 purl is that for real?
14:45 iankent sri: in principle, if the implementation was far cleaner, would it be something you'd consider including? or is it an almost certain no?
14:45 iankent if not, i can save me some time by extending :)
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14:45 dsteinbrunner batman: https://github.com/jhthorsen/app-mypp/pull/1
14:45 batman wantarray sucks. $c->param() could be so much smoother if it didn't use wantarray :(
14:46 sri hard to say without seeing the final implementation, but inconsistency with ->once and ->unsubscribe makes it unlikely
14:46 batman dsteinbrunner: merged. but where is that github button which creates a new dist...? :)
14:46 batman hm... maybe something i should make
14:47 batman too many projects :/
14:47 moritz batman: did you, like, actually read what I wrote? :-)
14:47 batman moritz: oh. *brain meltdown*
14:49 iankent sri: will have a play around, if I can make it nicer i'll ask again, otherwise i wont waste your time :p would it seem more consistent if ->once and ->unsubscribe supported multiple events too?
14:50 iankent although ->once with multiple events sounds wrong before I even start :p
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14:57 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/LzokDQ
14:57 good_news_everyone mojo/master 17fecec Sebastian Riedel: slightly more reliable deprecation workaround
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15:22 sri iankent: it does sound wrong, and i have no idea how it could be elegant, that's for you to figure out ;p
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15:41 marcus donotwantarray
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16:13 davido jberger: Are you present? :)
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17:44 thomason Can I safely re-use route names in an app? I understand that I cannot globally reference them that way, but I only want to find children of a parent route by a known key. I can't find anything in the docs about whether it's acceptable to do that or not. It seems to work, but I want to confirm that it won't break something else later.
17:45 thomason Can I safely re-use route names in an app? I understand that I cannot globally reference them that way, but I only want to find children of a parent route by a known key. I can't find anything in the docs about whether it's acceptable to do that or not. It seems to work, but I want to confirm that it won't break something else later.
17:45 thomason Oop. Sorry for the 2x. :-/
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18:30 thomason Well, since I know that mojo can generate conflicting names itself, I'm going to assume it's kosher to re-use names myself...
18:32 __hashref thomason you might want to consider a RESTful API.  GET /foo = view, POST /foo = create, DELETE /foo = delete, PUT /foo = update
18:32 __hashref http://www.slideshare.net/tudorconstantin/restful-web-services-13935018
18:34 thomason I just prefer it to be explicit, especially since it's more straightforward to add on additional actions. /foo/list to get all of the objects, or /foo/count to get a count, for example.
18:41 thomason That slidedeck there is comparable to the code I'm developing, but I'm building mine to be more generic and configuration driven. For the bulk of my cases, I can funnel it through a single uber controller (and even generic templates) for display.
18:41 thomason templates can be overridden and controllers subclassed as necessary.
18:42 thomason But I end up with annoying things like figuring out on the fly how to construct links to other objects, which is all the stuff I've been fighting with.
18:42 thomason There may be /foo/list, which displays all the /foo objects. And a foo object has a related bar object, which can be displayed. But I want the list to also be able to include a link to /bar/view off of that object.
18:43 thomason And do it all w/o the controller or the template having any fore-knowledge of 'foo' or 'bar'.
18:56 thomason FWIW, it looks like the key bit of code I was missing was Mojo Route's render method, which isn't linked to output rendering (as I stupidly assumed) and instead turns a route object (with parameters, even!) into string.
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19:15 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4ZSasw
19:15 good_news_everyone mojo/master 983db7f Sebastian Riedel: fixed typo in collection example
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19:49 cfedde I fat fingered something.  I can't seem to figure out what.  I'm getting this error:
19:49 cfedde Having no space between pattern and following word is deprecated at template index.html.ep line 62.
19:50 cfedde this is generating some javascript here:  $.get("<%= url_for('/rescan') %>", function () {
19:54 * cfedde found it.  quoting problem at a distance.
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20:03 jberger_ davido, back
20:03 jberger_ apparently this hotel turns off the power to your room while you are away for the day
20:03 davido jberger: Sorry, I meant to be calling for tempire. lol.  My mistake.
20:03 jberger_ laptop died
20:03 jberger_ oh ok
20:03 jberger_ :-)
20:04 davido I was hoping to extend an offer (or plea) for him to speak at an upcoming Salt Lake Perl Mongers.
20:04 jberger_ I wouldn't be able to come anytime soon, but I do have a friend near SLC. The next time I go visit him, should I ping you?
20:05 jberger_ he lives in North Ogden actually
20:05 davido jberger: Sure, we would love to hear from you too.  I was just under the impression that tempire lives in Utah.
20:05 jberger_ orly?
20:05 purl YA RLY.
20:05 jberger_ purl, botsnack
20:05 purl :)
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20:07 jberger_ I always imagined tempire in california
20:07 Mikey on a horse, with long flowing hair
20:07 jberger_ always!
20:07 davido I could be wrong, but someone I know claims to have an office next to his.
20:07 jberger_ davido, I always love meeting other perlers
20:08 jberger_ I am down in Curitiba Brasil for YAPC::Brasil right now!
20:08 davido We've got a pretty active Perl Mongers group.  12 at our most recent meeting, which is on-par with an average Los Angeles PM meeting.
20:08 davido When Damian Conway came we got over 100 to attend.
20:09 jberger_ chicago.pm is in a down phase sadl
20:09 jberger_ sadly
20:09 jberger_ preaction_, is doing a great job holding it together with baling wire and duct tap
20:09 jberger_ tape
20:10 davido We're kind of a new startup; I moved here from LA in February, started the group in April.   So far we've met monthly, with a plan to skip December.
20:11 jberger_ we are very happy when we get 12, which does happen on the odd occaision
20:11 jberger_ but its usually closer to 5
20:11 jberger_ we have had a bit of a brain drain around here
20:13 davido Try offering a "challenge", on your emailing list and then letting people present their solutions at the mtg.  Or do lightning talks; there should be nobody who can't talk about *something* for five minutes. lol
20:14 davido I've got to run for awhile.  I'll stay logged in.
20:14 jberger_ o/
20:14 jberger_ I like the challenge idea
20:14 jberger_ we have done lightning talks and that was well received
20:15 davido Look up on Perl Monks "8 letters, most words"
20:15 davido That seems like a good one.  I was actually thinking of doing a solution that involved mango.
20:16 davido Ok, AFK for an hour or so...
20:16 dsteinbrunner how about google hangout perl mongers
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20:16 dsteinbrunner as I am in the middle of no where
20:17 sri so that's where tempire is hiding
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20:37 jberger_ dsteinbrunner, I would be open to that kind of idea
20:38 dsteinbrunner I think I have heard of locations opening up to the internets
20:39 dsteinbrunner but I don't think I have heard of pure internet meetings
20:40 dsteinbrunner I telecommute when I code so it is not to big of a leap to do so for a meetup
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