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IRC log for #mojo, 2013-11-26

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Time Nick Message
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00:03 sri wonder when the spec will go stable http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-animations/
00:04 sri the pun made me smile though ;p
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00:44 meshl wondering about Mojolicious and taint, after having read https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/aDmhbUuf7eQ
00:44 meshl any advice on this?
00:52 sri meshl: just don't
00:53 meshl ok
00:54 meshl sri: what time do you go to bed?
00:54 meshl seems like it's nearly 2am there?
00:54 sri robots don't sleep
00:55 meshl :D
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00:56 meshl guess so... but take care as I need more of Mojolicious in the future!
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01:23 jberger_ sribot botsnack
01:23 purl thanks jberger_ :)
01:23 jberger_ purl that wasn't for you!
01:23 purl jberger_: excuse me?
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01:51 meshl g'night everyone
01:54 sri jberger_: :)
01:54 sri wait... where's my snack?!!!
01:54 sri PUUUUUUUURL!!!!!!!
01:55 * sri slaps purl
01:55 purl o/` Hit me baby, one more time o/`
01:55 * sri bites purl
01:55 * purl bites sri back
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04:41 * crab wonders if purl bites transmit any diseases
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04:59 sri :o
05:00 sri stuxnet maybe
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05:49 crab hi sri
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12:25 crab hum. why do the tag helpers generate <img /> and such? is that how html5 likes elements without separate ending tags?
12:30 crab ok. seems it's allowed, but no longer fashionable, as i thought.
12:30 crab is there any advantage to generate them?
12:35 mjb152 I wrote a module which is located under site_perl, it works perfectly as a standalone module and scripts work fine.   When I "use My::Module" inside a controller, it seems to break.  Weirdly the req->method sets itself to GET regardless of whether it's POST or not.   I'm using my $method = $self->req->method;  to check for GET or POST inside the controller, is that incorrect ?
12:39 crab are those two unrelated things?
12:39 crab or are you saying that $self->req->method returns GET for POST requests only if you "use My::Module" in your controller?
12:40 mjb152 I think so.  whats strange is that if I exclude the "use .." statement, then the output in the development.log is perfect.   if I add it back,  then the output goes into my mojouser.err file  and not the development.log file
12:41 mjb152 yes , thats it.
12:41 crab i'm afraid the only conclusion i can draw from this is that your module is horribly broken ;-)
12:42 crab what does it do, anyway?
12:44 mjb152 it creates an object and performs operations on it, but also has some other functions in there as well.  quite basic really.
12:46 mjb152 ok time to create a new module, and start from scratch...
12:50 nic mjb152: sounds like a good time to strengthen the unit tests
12:54 mjb152 think you're right.  I just wrote a small module and that worked fine,  so now I'll work out what broke it in my module
12:54 mjb152 thx
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13:26 batman crab: i don't get that <.../> in the tag helpers either.
13:26 batman sri: is it just from the old days? looks like xhtml which is.... yuk :(
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13:27 batman unless ($cb || defined $content) { $tag .= ' />' } # i would just remove this from _tag()
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14:04 crab batman: agreed.
14:08 crab <foo / was obscure SGML-ese. in html 4 (before xhtml) the thing to do was <foo> (though you /could/ do SGML-valid things like <title/foo/ (may not be exactly right, i've suppressed the memories), but hardly anyone supported it correctly, if at all). then in xhtml <foo />... began to mean <foo>...</foo>. then in html it seems it's <foo> is preferred, <foo />... is accepted, but no longer means <foo>...</foo> but just <foo>...
14:08 crab i did a bit of reading and it seems to me that there is no good reason to generate <foo /> any more.
14:09 crab SGML had a lot of crack-smoking special cases (in &entity-encoding too) that hardly anyone used, but which have survived on in myth and legend.
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14:10 dsteinbrunner win32
14:10 dsteinbrunner wrong window...
14:10 purl cd /var/pics/g0atpr0n
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14:26 sri batman/crab: please invest a little more time before making proposals like that
14:27 sri we generate xhtml tags because they are simple and work in all contexts, there is no extra logic required
14:27 sri same reason Mojo::DOM::HTML does it
14:28 sri batman/crab: if you want to change it *you* have to explain the advantages
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14:31 sri and who says the tag helper only generates html?
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14:35 batman sri: i thought you liked less lines of code... :)
14:35 sri not when it kills features
14:35 batman which features?
14:35 purl which features is that?
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14:43 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4o76nw
14:43 good_news_everyone mojo/master 1e5b7d1 Sebastian Riedel: better tests for tag helpers
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14:43 sri batman: to make it absolutely clear
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14:46 crab to make it absolutely clear, i asked a question about why it does generate that. there is no "proposal".
14:46 batman sri: sorry. i thought some versions of xml required having an actual closing tag.
14:47 batman crab: so the reason is that it's simpler to generate xml that way
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14:47 crab the test is a good answer.
14:47 sri crab: you agreed with batmans proposal earlier
14:48 sri http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2013-11-26#i_7917034
14:48 sri batman: no! because xml always works
14:48 sri xml syntax is the lowest common denominator
14:48 batman sri: really nice of you to actually make that xml test.
14:48 sri you can generate valid everything with it
14:49 batman right. you just need a dtd to validate "everything" ?
14:49 batman or no dtd in that case, i guess :)
14:49 crab sri: umm, i was quoted out of context by... umm... overenthusiastic members of the media. that's it.
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14:50 batman crab: just leave it...
14:52 crab batman: uh. ok.
14:52 sri fyi. these are the only tags that don't require an end tag in html https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/DOM/HTML.pm#L72
14:53 batman sri: not arguing about that :)
14:53 sri svg and mathml embedded in html for example have no such rules
14:54 batman sri: i'm good. thanks again.
14:54 sri just making sure it's 100% understood now so it doesn't come up again ;)
14:55 batman sri: hopefully i'm around next time someone asks so i can answer instead of you.
14:55 sri we can link to the irc log
14:55 batman :D
14:56 * sri waves at future self o/
14:56 * Mikey takes a 4d picture of you guys
15:03 dsteinbrunner anyone running heroku with the dev or basic postgres on fairly active sites?
15:04 * batman never got to heroku...
15:04 batman meshl: are you using postgres?
15:08 dsteinbrunner batman: you us dotcloud or something else?
15:09 batman i used to use dotcloud, but stopped after they killed the free plan. (i also payed btw)
15:09 dsteinbrunner interesting
15:10 batman i pushed once to heroku, but stopped messing around as soon as i learned that they don't do non-blocking
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15:11 batman i then started using AWS (amazon) for $14 a month which gives me more bang for the buck
15:11 batman but now i'm looking at digital ocean, but i'm not sure if i bother to change
15:11 batman i'm also going to blog about my AWS setup. maybe i'll start preparing that today
15:12 dsteinbrunner yeah digital ocean looks interesting
15:12 dsteinbrunner I have a new project I'm gearing up for
15:12 batman my amazon config is super simple...
15:12 batman ok.
15:12 dsteinbrunner with a short deadline
15:12 batman s/config/setup/
15:12 batman right. then heroku should be simple enough..?
15:13 dsteinbrunner they seem expensive once you start scaling
15:13 batman i totally agree.
15:14 Adurah Just hope your users get fatter wallets whilst.
15:14 batman the reason why $14 gives me what i need is 1) i don't have any visitors 2) i got cloudflare 3) i got many apps
15:14 meshl batman: no, I am using CouchDB
15:14 batman meshl: ok.
15:15 meshl batman: Heroku is fine with non-blocking
15:15 meshl (or what did you mean exactly?)
15:15 batman meshl: yeah. they just added support
15:15 batman ..for non-blocking
15:15 batman but it's not that long ago iirc
15:16 meshl Heroku is expensive, but they are a dream when you don't want to combine your dev job with a sysadmin one...
15:17 batman devop!
15:17 batman meshl: i agree.
15:17 meshl "git push heroku master" is the dream
15:18 dsteinbrunner dot cloud ssl, 21.20 for one instance
15:18 batman but i also don't want to pay as many dollars pr. month as i have users, just because i have many apps i'm experimenting with :)
15:18 batman dsteinbrunner: i'm using cloudflare for ssl.
15:19 meshl batman: did you setup ssl on AWS?
15:20 batman meshl: i seriously can't remember now :(
15:20 batman need to check :)
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15:21 batman i guess i didn't, just to make the job easier to nsa...
15:21 batman ;)
15:22 meshl :)
15:22 dsteinbrunner does that apply to just the stuff they are caching or am I able to run payment processing with it that is running on a different server?
15:23 batman who are "they"?
15:23 purl "they" are keeping you down.
15:23 batman how typical :(
15:23 dsteinbrunner cloudflare
15:24 meshl just saw that  i'd have to pay $20 a month for ssl on Heroku :( https://addons.heroku.com/ssl#endpoint
15:24 batman you can run all your traffic through cloudflare, except websockets.
15:25 batman [backend] <-- http <-- [cloudlflare] <-- https <-- [browser]
15:26 meshl hmmmm, unless http://gal.steinitz.com/blog/2013/09/02/free-ssl-on-heroku/
15:31 meshl batman: so your sensitive data still travels unencrypted from Cloudflare to your backend?
15:32 batman yes.
15:32 batman but i don't do credit cards
15:32 dsteinbrunner well it is a gig that I don't want to cut corners on but still what the monthly fees the customer will be paying to be reasonable
15:33 batman meshl: not sure who's man in the middle between cloudflare and backend..?
15:33 batman except u-s-of-a these days :/
15:33 meshl batman: right...
15:35 batman meshl: if my site was popular, i would do ssl all the way.
15:36 meshl ok
15:43 sri at least obama has his priorities straight http://www.whitehouse.gov/turkey
15:48 meshl will the voted turkey be the one he'll consume?
15:49 dsteinbrunner what
15:49 dsteinbrunner so we get to vote on which one dies?
15:50 dsteinbrunner is this how the hunger games started?
15:50 * sri nods
15:51 dsteinbrunner thinking of walking to switzerland in protest
15:52 dsteinbrunner the ocean will be difficult but that will make it that much more effective
15:54 batman sri: haha
16:35 kwa Is there a simple way to read a mojolicious config from a script that isn't mojo specifically?
16:37 kwa sub app; local *app = sub { \$app }; use Mojo::Base -strict; $content # this is voodoo btw
16:37 nic kwa: Someone mentioned the idea of using a dummy app to let you do taht
16:37 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Application_embedding
16:38 kwa Thanks sri
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17:09 salparadise is there a way I can print the mojo useragent header without debugging or using Dumper? something like print $tx->req->prettyheader
17:12 batman $tx->req->headers->to_string ?
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17:17 salparadise batman: yep, thanks
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22:26 marcus hmm, padrino is pretty nice. We should steal some of their helpers :)
22:26 marcus I'm amazed that they manage to maintain a multi-orm CRUD tool tho.
22:39 batman which helpers?
22:39 purl which helpers are bad?
22:52 meshl I see Tag Helpers, Asset Helpers, Form Helpers and Text Helpers on http://www.padrinorb.com/
22:54 meshl After a quick review I don't feel bad using Mojolicious rather than Padrino...
22:54 batman :)
22:54 batman marcus is holding his cards close to his chest.
22:55 sri GO HOME MARCUS YOU'RE DRUNK
22:55 marcus wat?
22:55 purl Watt?  Watt?  I can't hear you, there's this buzzing noise where my brain should be.
22:55 batman i'm not putting my sherlock holmes hat on trying to figure out what he's saying
22:56 marcus meshl: not saying you should switch :)
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22:56 sri meshl: you should switch
22:56 batman SRI! YOU SHOULD SWITCH!
22:56 batman :D
22:57 sri i should switch
22:57 batman marcus: care to say what's inside your head?
22:57 batman "some of their helpers" <-- at least some information is missing here imo...
22:58 marcus http://www.padrinorb.com/guides/application-helpers
22:59 sri you do realize we already have most of those
23:00 marcus sri: Yes, I know we have many of them
23:00 * batman gives up and goes to sleep
23:01 sri whatever, knock yourself out, helpers cost nothing anymore... make as many helper plugins as you like
23:02 * batman doesn't see anything interesting :(
23:02 * sri is rather underwhelmed as well
23:03 meshl I know I should... I studied switching in the past but switching is not my cup of tea anymore... (http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/mon1ps.gif)
23:04 batman meshl++
23:05 marcus reminds me that I should fix the wirc url detector not to include ) at the end of urls
23:07 marcus sri: sorry if I'm being annoying. My brain might have turned into mush from too much exposure to ruby =]
23:08 sri don't worry, i'm aware :)
23:08 marcus I really like that new ruby hash syntax too. Why do they get all the shiny toys ?  :-/
23:09 marcus (:foo => 'bar' ) to (foo: 'bar')
23:09 marcus sri: have you played any with dokku btw?
23:09 marcus I see it has build packs for perl as well.
23:10 marcus asm89.github.io/2013/11/25/dokku-0.2.html
23:10 sri nope
23:12 marcus seems like good stable docker based PAAS solutions are just around the corner :)
23:12 batman Marcus: I'm just surprised you haven't given us one example of a helper that is cool
23:12 batman Ok... Yeah, that is annoying as well ^^^
23:15 Adurah But, does padrino have hamburger helper?
23:18 meshl markus: thanks didn't know about dokku / docker... seems like it could reduce my costs pretty drastically... (using Heroku at the moment)
23:19 meshl batman: wouldn't that solution be the way to have a nice setup on AWS, I mean one where we could do a sort of "git push heroku master"?
23:19 marcus meshl: possibly. :) There's also flynn ( https://flynn.io/ )
23:21 meshl marcus: definitely worth tryin' - thanks
23:21 sri http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wbraswell/perl-5-optimizing-compiler-rperl-v10 # is this some kind of inside joke?
23:22 marcus http://rperl.org/ --- doesn't seem to be
23:23 marcus awesome artwork as usual.
23:24 sri http://rperl.org/the_book_of_rperl.html # say what?
23:25 sri pretty sure it's a hoax gone wrong
23:25 tianon lolwtf
23:26 marcus or mental illness.
23:26 purl well, mental illness is no fun.
23:26 batman mesh: I'm using Toadfarm and github instead
23:26 sri botsnack!
23:26 purl :)
23:28 batman I meant "meshl" ^^^
23:28 meshl batman: ok
23:29 marcus batman: you're hosting on github now? :)
23:29 marcus I thought you were on dotcloud
23:29 meshl if RPerl is a joke, seems like *really* fancy one
23:34 batman marcus: haven't used dotcloud since they went open source
23:35 batman Just saying I don't want a bunch of devs being able to connect directly to the AWS.
23:36 batman Bunch == 2. Two too many ;)
23:36 batman So I'm using Toadfarm and github to deploy.
23:36 meshl batman: Toadfarm seems cool... was the name inspired by some sort of "hypnotic" vision?
23:37 batman Yes
23:42 batman https://twitter.com/digitalocean/status/405399796770672640
23:43 meshl batman: your blog http://thorsen.pm/blog/ does not have a feed?
23:44 batman It should. But there's no use following it :P
23:44 batman Follow me on twitter instead :) @jhthorsen
23:45 meshl ok
23:45 batman Most of my blog is shit :P
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23:52 sri no, follow me on twitter instead ;p
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