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IRC log for #mojo, 2013-12-01

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Time Nick Message
00:42 laouji joined #mojo
00:44 sri yea, i think we'll change the mojolicious documentation to german to avoid such problems :)
00:45 sri english is clearly a sexist language
00:48 sri ruby documentation doesn't have such problems... since it's all japanese!
00:56 sri at least that's what i learned from my twitter stream today
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02:02 jberger__ "An asshole is incompetent" ... "social and technical ability are orthogonal. One never balances the other out"
02:02 jberger__ ^^linked from the story
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02:08 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih deleted validation at c980c66: http://git.io/uEEMBQ
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06:53 laouji is there a good way to control what order renderer paths are searched for templates?
06:53 laouji I have a site that serves different templates for mobile and pc
06:54 laouji but I want to make it work better for responsive web design
06:55 laouji so the default behaviour would be 1) search pc / mobile directories depending on user agent
06:55 laouji 2) if the template doesn't exist there search in a "shared" directory
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08:30 marcus Wow, that github thread is a train crash (https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482dcc8d1c41c14333fcb48)
08:47 marcus http://strongloop.com/strongblog/collaboration-not-derision-in-the-node-community/
08:48 d4rkie_ joined #mojo
08:52 marcus Of course, the best way to improve any sexist situation is by labeling people 'assholes' and calling for them to lose their job. I'm sure that makes them see the error of their ways...
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09:26 good_news_everyone [mojo] marcusramberg created fix_gender (+1 new commit): http://git.io/UC3JYA
09:26 good_news_everyone mojo/fix_gender 80c5742 Marcus Ramberg: Fix gentrification of the pumpking
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10:31 Adura Pump... king?
10:31 Adura Pumproyal!
10:49 sjn Pump.. regent.
10:51 sjn But if there's royalty involved, aren't we talking about Pomp and Circumstance?
10:51 marcus pumpernickel
10:51 sjn Pomp Royale
10:53 marcus I guess it should just be http://search.cpan.org/~jhi/perl/Porting/pumpkin.pod and thus not gendered.
10:54 sjn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_and_gender-neutral_pronouns
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10:55 good_news_everyone [mojo] marcusramberg pushed 1 new commit to fix_gender: http://git.io/0QbXFw
10:55 good_news_everyone mojo/fix_gender f888ddc Marcus Ramberg: Change pumpking to pumpkin
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10:57 sjn marcus: "pumpking" is a term that's used, you know..
10:58 marcus sjn: It does seem like a corruption of the perl pumpkin though?
10:59 marcus sjn: https://metacpan.org/pod/release/RJBS/perl-5.18.1/Porting/pumpkin.pod is the core perl usage, and seems much better than pumpking.
11:01 sjn afict, "pumpkin" means "the thing that formally shows you are the one person having access/authority"
11:01 sjn afaict*
11:02 sjn the wielder of the pumpkin is called "pumpking" (maybe colloquially)
11:03 marcus sjn: http://modperlbook.org/html/6-8-2-4-2-Reloading-configuration-files.html disagrees with you
11:03 sjn http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl/pod/perlhist.pod#THE_KEEPERS_OF_THE_PUMPKIN
11:04 marcus "The name has stuck. The holder of the pumpkin is sometimes called the pumpking (keeping the source afloat?) or the pumpkineer (pulling the strings?)."
11:04 sjn so the pumpkin is not something one *is* it's something one *has*
11:04 marcus But I've also found a lot of examples of people using pumpkin to refer to the holder.
11:05 marcus "These are the recent pumpkins: Chip Salzenberg for 5.004, Gurusamy Sarathy for 5.005 and 5.6, Jarkko Hietaniemi for 5.8, Hugo van der Sanden for 5.10."
11:05 * sjn thinks it makes more sense when using the term as it's done in perlhist
11:05 marcus pumpkineer ? :)
11:06 sjn "keeper of the pumpkin", "pumpkineer" or even "pumpking", yes
11:06 marcus https://pause.perl.org/pause/query?ACTION=who_pumpkin
11:06 marcus pause disagrees with you
11:07 sjn that only shows that lots of people are bad at grammar :)
11:08 sjn (that page also says "who is a pumpkin bit holder")
11:10 marcus sjn: Yes, of course that is the actual meaning, but it's a big long-winded to say.
11:11 marcus I don't really think pumpking adds clearity tho, as it implies a quite different meaning.
11:12 sjn well, what we're looking for is a short and sweet word for "the person who is the pumpkin bit holder"
11:13 sjn gender neutral, preferrably
11:13 marcus I think pumpkin works well for that, and there are a bunch of documented cases
11:13 sjn "pumpkindler"?
11:13 marcus I think it can interchangably mean 'the token' and 'person holding the token'.
11:13 marcus and there are many documented uses
11:14 sjn "pumpkin" is already an existing word, which the vast majority of the english-speaking world uses for something else than describing stature or identifying peopple
11:14 marcus Specially since in almost all cases we're not talking about an actual physical token.
11:14 marcus sjn: that problem also goes for the actual token tho :)
11:16 sjn please, let's not make up new meanings for existing words. pumpking means "the token" in most places where it's written so, and I'd say it's safe that the places where the word is uses otherwise, it's not done so because of thorough deliberation like we're doing here now
11:16 marcus no, it doesn't
11:16 marcus you meant to write pumpkin there
11:17 sjn yes
11:17 sjn I meant to write "pumpkin", sorry
11:18 sjn "The Pumpking is a hardmode boss that spawns during the Pumpkin Moon. It behaves very similar to Skeletron. It has two lengthy arms each with a large scythe. These hands act much like Skeletron's hands."
11:19 marcus OH NO, IT HAS A DIFFERENT MEANING :(
11:19 marcus sjn: http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2000-07/msg00421.html supports usage of pumpking.
11:19 * sjn suggests to use the term "pumpkin-holder"
11:19 marcus but I still don't like it :)
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11:22 good_news_everyone [mojo] marcusramberg pushed 1 new commit to fix_gender: http://git.io/lYsP0Q
11:22 good_news_everyone mojo/fix_gender d625127 Marcus Ramberg: Change to pumpkin-holder for clarity
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11:23 marcus Guess I should just order http://www.ebay.com/itm/TY-Halloween-Jack-o-Lantern-Pluffies-pumpkin-plush-/170926140415?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cbfdebff for sri
11:24 sjn what a splendid idea :)
11:25 * sjn wonders if a pupkin-head would be a good logo for Perl itself :)
11:25 marcus sjn: http://blogs.perl.org/users/matt_s_trout_mst/2013/02/pumpkin-perl---redux.html ?
11:25 sjn "Perl; The language that scares you once a year"
11:26 sjn hey, I'm trying to revive the logo discussion, not the naming discussion. ;)
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11:34 marcus I'm just trying to watch the world burn.
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13:00 crab burn, not turn?
13:11 sri 🎃
13:11 Adura Good old numberbox.'
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13:31 * sri right now http://i.imgur.com/slEZbUO.gif
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13:37 Adura You must use ascii memes on IRC.
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14:05 sri "The pumpkin-holder has veto rights and may select its successor." # seriously?
14:06 sri wouldn't it be "his or her" in proper english?
14:06 crab (yes.)
14:06 crab or their
14:08 sri there can be only one!
14:08 purl or two
14:08 crab there!
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14:27 Adura https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Ctwl63XCg Pumpkin, s/k//;
14:31 marcus sri: I used its to reflect the fact that you are a robot.
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14:35 good_news_everyone [mojo] marcusramberg pushed 1 new commit to fix_gender: http://git.io/tlP6zg
14:35 good_news_everyone mojo/fix_gender 0feef4f Marcus Ramberg: Use their to not discriminate potential future human pumpkin-holders
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17:25 meshl feels like Halloween's back today...
17:45 sri marcus: is that correct english?
17:51 meshl probably not... my German background kicks back...
17:53 meshl sri: where do I start if I want to extend Mojo with custom EP templating element (keeping it separate from core!)
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17:57 crab is what correct english? "their"? absolutely.
17:58 meshl I mean, basically I'd like to add a custom Tag Helper. Anyone?
18:00 cfedde in your own module you can define a helper.  Is that what you are looking for?
18:01 crab meshl: look at how the TagHelpers plugin does it?
18:02 meshl yep, thanks
18:09 sri "The pumpkin-holder has veto rights and may select their successor."
18:09 sri that's not correct english, is it?
18:09 sri we could really use jester in this channel
18:11 meshl http://eigentaste.berkeley.edu/user/jokes.php
18:13 sri http://www.jessesword.com/ # he's been an early member of the catalyst team
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18:55 marcus sri: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they ?
18:59 * sri shrugs
18:59 sri me no engrish well
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19:18 itz is it possible to run background batch jobs (similar to cron) under mojo and unassociated with any incoming web requests?
19:24 jberger_ itz, not really  ... yet :-)
19:24 marcus jberger: engrish well?
19:25 itz ok no worries I suppose I was trying to misuse it to be POE or similar :)
19:27 jberger_ I can haz engrish
19:27 jberger_ sadly there is no clean answer to this one
19:27 jberger_ "The pumpkin-holder has veto rights and may select their successor." works
19:30 cfedde How do I englsh?
19:31 jberger_ you englsh good can
19:36 jberger_ I hate hacking on someone else's dzil-based modules
19:36 sri itz: you want a job queue
19:39 jberger_ I just needed to install 51 modules before I could run prove on the p5-FFI-Raw git checkout!
19:39 moritz jberger_: that does kinda suck
19:39 jberger_ wait, might be more
19:40 jberger_ oh man, more coming!
19:40 jberger_ the killer is, these are only dzil deps, not module deps
19:40 sri INSTALL ALL THE THINGS
19:41 marcus http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/43443761.jpg
19:41 sri \o/
19:41 * jberger_ throws a snowball at marcus
19:41 jberger_ ok that's 26 more for a total of 77
19:42 jberger_ can I run the tests yet? lets see
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19:43 jberger_ finally
19:44 sri FFI::Raw seems pretty awesome otherwise though
19:44 jberger_ eh, I'm having trouble with the callbacks atm
19:44 jberger_ you won't believe what happened
19:44 jberger_ yesterday, everything I thought was working, was actually Mojo::Reactor::Poll getting detected!
19:45 sri lulz
19:45 jberger_ it was the most amazing coding day ever! everything worked on the first try!
19:45 jberger_ then I discovered that I had a typo in the constructor name, there was no possible way it could work!
19:45 sri now that you mention it... i wanted to tell you something but forgot
19:46 jberger_ now I have this: https://github.com/jberger/Mojo-Reactor-UV-FFI/blob/master/ex/timers.pl#L9
19:46 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Reactor#SYNOPSIS
19:46 jberger_ that I understood, it was the silent fallback to ::Poll that I didn't expect
19:47 sri the %ENV thing is supposed to give your reactor priority if it's loaded
19:47 jberger_ right, there was a compile error in my reactor, so it fell back to ::Poll silently
19:47 sri oh
19:47 sri that's why it's supposed to be loaded before ;p
19:48 jberger_ I suppose I could just put an extra 'use' statement in the script :-)
19:48 sri use Mojo::Reactor::UV::FFI; use Mojo::IOLoop;
19:49 jberger_ right, then it would die sanely
19:49 jberger_ anyway, that's not the issue now
19:49 jberger_ now it seems like I can't keep a strong reference to the callback
19:49 jberger_ so I'm seeing how FFI::Raw::Callback works
19:49 sri oh, tomorrow is yet another american holiday
19:50 sri happy cyber monday! ;p
19:50 jberger_ hehe
19:50 marcus Americans, do they even work?
19:50 marcus :P
19:50 jberger_ now you are just making stuff up
19:50 jberger_ :-P
19:50 sri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_Monday
19:51 jberger_ I know, I was kidding
19:51 sri i'm serial
19:51 jberger_ I'm so serial!
19:52 marcus I'm so digital!
19:52 * jberger_ thinks that was a southpark reference
19:53 marcus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05YfP_8UsU ?
19:54 jberger_ oh and ManBearPig all in one episode!
19:55 * sri is super cereal
19:55 marcus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05YfP_8UsU neat
19:55 marcus wrong link
19:56 sri SPAM!
19:56 marcus https://github.com/coreos/corelb # neat
19:57 sri you seem pretty obsessed with etcd
19:58 marcus sri: mostly docker
19:58 marcus sri: etcd is just a side-effect
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20:08 jberger_ HA! https://github.com/ghedo/p5-FFI-Raw/commit/55544f70f89784f35bc5a3697149e785abb69f2c
20:10 sri \o/
20:12 jberger_ \o/  it works!
20:12 jberger_ WHY NOT ZOIDBERG!
20:12 purl (V) (;,,;) (V)
20:12 jberger_ THANK YOU PURL!
20:12 purl You're welcome
20:12 jberger_ (seriously I was losing sleep over that one last night)
20:12 sri botsnack!
20:12 purl thanks sri :)
20:13 * jberger_ wishes he could now remove the 77 dzil modules he just installed
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21:18 jberger_ sri: _sandbox would be useful in Mojo::Reactor
21:19 sri too ugly to make it public
21:19 sri and if it's not public... you know
21:20 jberger_ right
21:20 jberger_ its too bad there is no convention for subclass acceptable private method
21:20 * jberger_ copies
21:20 sri then they wouldn't be private
21:21 jberger_ I guess
21:24 sri Mojo::Message had a private method that was supposed to be overloaded in a subclass for some time
21:25 jberger_ its only a two line method, I'm ok copy/pasting
21:30 jberger_ sri: thoughts on this? https://twitter.com/roidrage/status/407202092215177216
21:30 sri i like this one more http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593272203.do
21:31 jberger_ even at 1/2 off?
21:32 sri you want the ebook or paper?
21:32 jberger_ don't care
21:32 purl don't care is supposed to be more like "no, that's a bad idea", but I haven't seen any ideas I don't want _other_ people to do
21:33 jberger_ truly I would use it to try to detangle the Zoidberg::Job class
21:33 sri most ebooks over at oreilly are always 50% off ;)
21:33 sri you just look for a coupon
21:34 sri DSUG or so was the magic coupon code
21:34 jberger_ actually Zoidberg::Contractor is the worse culprit
21:34 jberger_ the whole zoid system could use a good Moosing
21:35 jberger_ Moo-ing more like
21:35 sri personally i try to avoid addison wesley ebooks... since they plaster your name on every page
21:35 jberger_ ick
21:35 jberger_ well I've bookmarked your suggestion, if I ever get around to cleaning up Zoidberg, I will give it a look
21:36 sri amazing book, one of my alltime favorites
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21:40 marcus I buy all my computer books from Wiley! If it ain't yellow, it ain't a computer book.
21:40 * sri sets marcus on fire
21:40 marcus sri: I recommend http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118690834.html
21:41 sri oh my, even the reviewers over on amazon get it http://www.amazon.com/The-Linux-Programming-Interface-Handbook/dp/1593272200/
21:42 marcus sick
21:42 marcus 63 5 star reviews
21:43 marcus out of 65
21:44 jberger_ maybe I will have to pony up
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21:46 marcus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
21:46 sri if you decide to get a stevens book, i'd actually get an original instead of a new edition :o
21:47 stephan48 i can't seem to find an example for nonblocking post requests... http://paste.stejau.de/?448 is this correct? i can't seem to get this workin
21:47 sri his writing style was much better that that of the new authors that have taken over
21:47 sri *than
21:48 sri new edition of tcp/ip illustrated was a total letdown
21:52 jberger_ stephan48, callback always goes on the end
21:59 stephan48 thanks
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