| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:14 |
|
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| 00:15 |
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| 00:57 |
crab |
someone remind me how to call form_for such that it doesn't have any $cb, only $content? |
| 00:59 |
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| 01:24 |
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| 01:41 |
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| 01:42 |
jberger_ |
sri: does any of this look troubling for a Mojo::Reactor:: ? |
| 01:42 |
jberger_ |
https://github.com/joyent/libuv/blob/master/include/uv.h#L1134 |
| 01:44 |
jberger_ |
sounds like a lot of conditions |
| 01:53 |
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| 01:56 |
crab |
wasn't there some "all you need to know about unicode and perl" sort of article? anyone remember it? i want to point someone at it |
| 01:57 |
jberger_ |
there is tchrist's epic SO answer :-) |
| 01:58 |
jberger_ |
also one of the YAPC::NA talks |
| 01:59 |
jberger_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FQHUHjo8M |
| 02:01 |
jberger_ |
http://stackoverflow.com/q/6162484/468327 |
| 02:02 |
crab |
ok. if i hit him with tchrist's answer, he should stay dead ;-) |
| 02:23 |
jberger_ |
HAHAHAHA |
| 02:23 |
purl |
LOLCON 4 reached. |
| 02:23 |
jberger_ |
HAHAHAHAHA |
| 02:23 |
purl |
LOLCON 5 reached. |
| 02:23 |
jberger_ |
nice |
| 02:23 |
jberger_ |
purl botsnack |
| 02:23 |
purl |
thanks jberger_ :) |
| 02:41 |
jberger_ |
the more I read the libuv.h file, the more I want to reimplement Perl5 using it :-) |
| 02:41 |
Adura |
Ask that witch/warlockhunted guy to. |
| 03:02 |
sri |
jberger_: you will like moarvm :) |
| 03:02 |
sri |
https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM # it's on libuv now |
| 03:03 |
sri |
and no, i don't think any of that matters for the reactor |
| 03:04 |
sri |
only sockets on windows is a bit curious, but may have to do with iocp use there |
| 03:04 |
* marty |
just got websockets working with a tailable mango cursor. Yeeeee Hawwwww o/ |
| 03:04 |
jberger_ |
Do I need to think about the "only one watcher" thing? |
| 03:04 |
sri |
doubt it |
| 03:04 |
sri |
\o/ |
| 03:05 |
jberger_ |
marty++ |
| 03:07 |
jberger_ |
sri: perhaps you want to make a Reactor hook for getaddrinfo? |
| 03:07 |
sri |
perhaps |
| 03:07 |
jberger_ |
or can you think of some other clever way of doing this? |
| 03:08 |
sri |
nope, getaddrinfo hook is an open problem |
| 03:08 |
sri |
new ideas are more than welcome |
| 03:09 |
jberger_ |
maybe just a Mojo::Util::getaddrinfo which could detect the IOLoop, but the blocking vs nonblocking would be tough |
| 03:09 |
jberger_ |
there is an oddity about how the info is returned |
| 03:09 |
sri |
it gets a bit complicated since we have to work with IO::Socket::INET too, not just IO::Socket::IP |
| 03:09 |
jberger_ |
it has a special "free" function for it |
| 03:09 |
sri |
so we have platforms without getaddrinfo |
| 03:10 |
sri |
on the other hand... we always have a blocking fallback with those modules |
| 03:10 |
jberger_ |
(re:free) might make things tough because of the ffi stuff |
| 03:10 |
jberger_ |
right |
| 03:10 |
sri |
so default could be a noop hook |
| 03:10 |
sri |
"try to resolve this, but it's ok if you can't" |
| 03:11 |
jberger_ |
maybe we need a can_non_blocking_getaddrinfo |
| 03:11 |
sri |
that makes it harder |
| 03:12 |
jberger_ |
then would it always present a non-blocking style interface (ie with a callback) |
| 03:12 |
jberger_ |
and it would just block if it had to? |
| 03:13 |
sri |
sub Mojo::Reactor::getaddrinfo { my ($self, $name, $cb) = @_; $self->timer(0 => sub { $self->$cb($name) }) } |
| 03:13 |
sri |
no, it would pass the name through, so the blocking resolver we have anyway takes care of it |
| 03:14 |
* jberger_ |
trusts sri :-) |
| 03:14 |
sri |
TRUST ME I'M FROM THE INTERNET |
| 03:14 |
jberger_ |
I really am out on the edge of my knowledge on some of this |
| 03:14 |
jberger_ |
HAHAHAHAHA |
| 03:14 |
purl |
LOLCON 5 reached. |
| 03:14 |
jberger_ |
drat, I was shooting for 6 and I miscounted |
| 03:15 |
sri |
it's not the cleanest solution... but sure beats manually fuzzing with the blocking getaddrinfo |
| 03:17 |
sri |
oh... but i forgot something |
| 03:17 |
sri |
meh |
| 03:17 |
sri |
multiple results |
| 03:19 |
sri |
anyway... it's not urgent |
| 03:19 |
jberger_ |
I know |
| 03:19 |
jberger_ |
none of this is really |
| 03:19 |
jberger_ |
even if I get all of this to work, its not likely to be used much, since nothing else is written for it (unlike AE) |
| 03:19 |
sri |
you'd want to fit async dns modules from cpan into that hook too |
| 03:21 |
sri |
well, if you're after something with a BIG future, i'd aim for EV api compatibility |
| 03:22 |
sri |
(which itself got its api from Event) |
| 03:23 |
jberger_ |
I have no idea what I want from this |
| 03:23 |
jberger_ |
I like making tools |
| 03:23 |
jberger_ |
sri challenged someone to make this one |
| 03:23 |
* jberger_ |
tries |
| 03:23 |
sri |
:) |
| 03:24 |
|
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| 03:25 |
jberger_ |
on a completely different note, ::ForkCall has the strangest CPANTesters results |
| 03:26 |
jberger_ |
it has passes on every platform, |
| 03:26 |
sri |
jberger_: oh, re nothing is written for it https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Async::Loop::Mojo |
| 03:27 |
sri |
you can go the opposite direction with targeting too |
| 03:27 |
jberger_ |
but it has failures on a few select cases, with no pattern, and really odd failure messages |
| 03:28 |
jberger_ |
what the heck is that interface? |
| 03:29 |
jberger_ |
wouldn't you want to do Mojo::Reactor::IOAsync? |
| 03:29 |
jberger_ |
rather than the other way around? |
| 03:29 |
sri |
it doesn't really matter |
| 03:29 |
jberger_ |
I guess not, but it seems odd (might be too close to the other side of the argument) |
| 03:29 |
sri |
reactor is a little light on some features, but that can usually be worked around |
| 03:30 |
|
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| 03:31 |
sri |
jberger_: only two of those failures look odd to me |
| 03:32 |
sri |
EV and ithreads is clear, same for panic |
| 03:33 |
sri |
208 pass and 5 fail is a damn good result for tests that fork |
| 03:33 |
jberger_ |
:-0 |
| 03:33 |
sri |
and EV/ithreads errors can be avoided |
| 03:34 |
jberger_ |
skip if? |
| 03:34 |
jberger_ |
or actually tell it not to do something? |
| 03:34 |
sri |
BEGIN { $ENV{MOJO_REACTOR} = 'Mojo::Reactor::Poll' } |
| 03:34 |
jberger_ |
in the tests? |
| 03:34 |
sri |
yea |
| 03:34 |
jberger_ |
right |
| 03:35 |
jberger_ |
that makes things easy |
| 03:35 |
sri |
you can't load EV and fork on windows |
| 03:35 |
jberger_ |
oh, yeah, that jogs something in the deep recesses of my memory |
| 03:36 |
* jberger_ |
avoids that platform as much as humanly possible |
| 03:37 |
jberger_ |
then again, I was pretty happy to see the tests passing on windows |
| 03:57 |
|
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| 03:57 |
jberger_ |
is there some way to tell if a handle is a socket or not? |
| 04:09 |
davido |
->isa()? (I don't know, but...) |
| 04:18 |
sri |
jberger: -S |
| 04:19 |
davido |
bingo. Sometimes it's too simple. :) |
| 04:19 |
jberger_ |
-Seriously? |
| 04:19 |
* jberger_ |
was pouring over IO::Handle doc |
| 04:20 |
davido |
But this did what I expected: perl -MIO::Socket -MScalar::Util -E 'my $s = IO::Socket->new(); say "Yes" if $s->isa("IO::Socket");' |
| 04:21 |
davido |
Oh, disregard the Scalar::Util part; I was checking reftype too, which just comes back as a GLOB. |
| 04:27 |
jberger_ |
sri: would you expect that uv_os_sockt_t is an int :-/ |
| 04:28 |
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| 04:31 |
davido |
A signed int? uv_...._t ought to be unsigned. |
| 04:32 |
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| 04:36 |
jberger_ |
probably |
| 04:36 |
jberger_ |
except that fd is an int |
| 04:36 |
jberger_ |
https://github.com/joyent/libuv/blob/master/include/uv.h#L1175 |
| 04:40 |
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| 04:40 |
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| 04:43 |
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| 04:55 |
sri |
jberger_: why wouldn't it be an int? |
| 04:55 |
jberger_ |
I can't find the definition of uv_os_socket_t |
| 04:55 |
jberger_ |
that is all :-) |
| 04:55 |
sri |
oh :) |
| 04:58 |
sri |
wow, there's at least a dozen new features woth mentioning in a 5.0 announcement already :o |
| 04:59 |
jberger_ |
wow! highlights? |
| 04:59 |
sri |
validation ;p |
| 05:01 |
sri |
csrf, socket compression, cheap helpers, many new dom methods, non-blocking bridges, around_action hook, SO_REUSEPORT....and and and |
| 05:01 |
jberger_ |
\o/ |
| 05:02 |
sri |
and i was worried that we were out of ideas after 4.0 :D |
| 05:03 |
jberger_ |
hehe |
| 05:04 |
jberger_ |
one of the best (meta) things about mojo is the pace |
| 05:05 |
sri |
you'd think it has to get slower at some point |
| 05:06 |
jberger_ |
the io/watcher Reactor methods don't map very nicely to uv :-/ |
| 05:06 |
jberger_ |
you would think so right?! |
| 05:06 |
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| 05:07 |
jberger_ |
watch would call uv_poll_init and io would call uv_poll_start, except that the mask goes on uv_poll_start :-s |
| 05:10 |
davido |
jberger_ Did you find where it's defined? I'm not seeing it either as I trace back through the #includes. |
| 05:11 |
jberger_ |
no, I stopped looking (though rather quickly) |
| 05:11 |
jberger_ |
thanks for looking though! davido++ |
| 05:13 |
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| 11:33 |
womble |
I'd appreciate any comments on this pseudo-design for a Mojo app to schedule sequences of shell scripts: http://pastie.org/pastes/8530450/text?key=xkedooae8zeexhbbppl9va |
| 11:34 |
womble |
doing some reading about Mojo::Redis, it seems like a good way for external worker processes to talk to the controller, but I'm not sure exactly how to do it |
| 11:35 |
womble |
any comments includes "you are crazy" |
| 11:41 |
womble |
"Update Clients" means update data in a table presented to clients via websocket for "real time" feedback of progress of the set of scripts to run |
| 11:56 |
* crab |
mopes miserably after discovering that he has to have a root canal excavated tomorrow. |
| 12:00 |
marcus |
crab: I feel for you, buddy. |
| 12:01 |
womble |
I had a root canal ~12 years ago.. it didn't hurt, hasn't ever since, and I got a blinging NHS gold cap to show for my troubles :-) |
| 12:01 |
womble |
s/gold/"gold" |
| 12:02 |
|
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| 12:04 |
* marcus |
has some gold fillings. |
| 12:07 |
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| 12:08 |
nic |
womble: prob worth looking at https://github.com/diegok/resque-perl |
| 12:10 |
womble |
thanks, I've played with it and looks perfect |
| 12:11 |
womble |
wondering if I should just get the worker process to talk back to the controller via a websocket vs using redis |
| 12:12 |
nic |
redis is nice for the looser coupling, eg if controller is down or too busy |
| 12:15 |
nic |
for my own needs it's required that the worker is robust, lightweight (eg no moose), and more sophisticated (context switching), while the controller needs a scheduler, and exceptions need to be monitored/communicated externally |
| 12:15 |
nic |
but I started all that a year ago and still nothing ready for publication (even though a version is masquerading in our 'production' env :) ) |
| 12:18 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:22 |
womble |
nic: on the controller side, do you have something like a separate loop that waits on reads from redis? |
| 12:22 |
womble |
shame i can't sponge off your code :( |
| 12:22 |
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| 12:23 |
crab |
why can't you? |
| 12:23 |
crab |
oh, presumably because nic isn't diegok and his code isn't resque-perl |
| 12:24 |
diegok |
oh!, i'm here :) |
| 12:25 |
crab |
kind of you to have the same nick as your github username. makes things much less confusing. ;-) |
| 12:28 |
womble |
diegok: don't suppose you've ever looked into integrating resque-history with resque-perl? |
| 12:28 |
diegok |
crab: :-) |
| 12:29 |
womble |
i guess it's a completely separate affair, i tinkered with the ruby version and it's really nice to see all your job history in resque-web |
| 12:30 |
diegok |
womble: no, I've never done that... but i was requested to make resque-perl pluggable with roles and I did it but then no one ever used that feature...so I guess you can give a try |
| 12:30 |
diegok |
It's on my list to remove that support and move all resque thing to Moo instead of Moose. |
| 12:31 |
diegok |
unless it proves to be useful to anyone |
| 12:33 |
womble |
I decided to store the history in SQLite, if the option had been there to hook into something like resque-history with resque-web I might've taken the shortcut though |
| 12:34 |
|
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| 12:34 |
womble |
I hope they said thank-you at least :) |
| 12:40 |
diegok |
womble: https://github.com/diegok/resque-perl/issues/5 |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:04 |
womble |
diegok: if you look at that link I posted earlier, I would really probably be much better off storing the state of these jobs in redis. my solution probably won't be very reliable. hooking into the plugins would be much better, but harder |
| 13:07 |
womble |
i think with my implementation job sets will just get hung if there is any message loss, which is better than carrying on blindly |
| 13:22 |
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| 13:33 |
diegok |
womble: it's really easy to plug into Resque::Job and then you can access redis server (an instance of Redis object) and do what that plugin must do :) |
| 13:34 |
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| 15:28 |
* crab |
wonders where dot and dotandimet met |
| 15:29 |
jovial_chat |
judging by ip address, israel |
| 15:31 |
crab |
all i knew was, it couldn't have been turkey. |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:58 |
dotandimet |
crab: who's do? |
| 15:58 |
purl |
i heard do was just a loop where something controls/constrains it to execute once or de do do do de the da da |
| 15:58 |
dotandimet |
I meant dot :( |
| 15:59 |
crab |
dotandimet: i'm misparsing your nick as "dot and i met" |
| 16:00 |
dotandimet |
LOL! |
| 16:01 |
crab |
might be because i'm doped up on painkillers. ;-) i did actually know what your name is. |
| 16:10 |
dotandimet |
crab: So you're after the root canal ? |
| 16:10 |
crab |
no, sort of in-between. some prep work done today, will be completed tomorrow. |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:13 |
* sri |
has been there too, the waiting sucked but it didn't hurt much |
| 16:14 |
dotandimet |
crab: well, at least it'll be over fast ... ? I also remember a lot of waiting. |
| 16:16 |
crab |
dotandimet: i think it's supposed to take about half an hour. or forty-five minutes. |
| 16:16 |
sri |
the wait between sessions |
| 16:17 |
dotandimet |
that |
| 16:17 |
crab |
maybe if i pretend to be panic-stricken, they'll give me a whiff of nitrous ;-) |
| 16:17 |
nic |
don't just accept a standard filling; ask what other plugins are available |
| 16:18 |
crab |
haha |
| 16:22 |
jovial_chat |
i've never had a root canal, i'm sure it's coming |
| 16:22 |
jovial_chat |
had 3 wisdom teeth removed |
| 16:22 |
jovial_chat |
they pretty much injected my gums |
| 16:22 |
jovial_chat |
got out a screwdriver |
| 16:22 |
jovial_chat |
and i'll let you imagine the rest |
| 16:23 |
|
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| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
in the US they seem to give opiates for the pain |
| 16:23 |
sri |
all 4 here... it really really hurt |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
here they gave me an unimpressed look |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
and sent me on my way |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
with a bit of cotton jammed in there |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
i never had that sort of pain |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
didn't even hurt that much while they were doing it, although one she had to put her full weight on the screwdriver, which was adorable |
| 16:23 |
jovial_chat |
5ft polish lady desperately trying to tear my teeth out |
| 16:25 |
nic |
My genetic line has been optimised to minimise dental bills -- born with only 3 wisdom teeth (ok, so only 25% optimised) |
| 16:25 |
jovial_chat |
me too nic, I was born in a free country ;) |
| 16:26 |
crab |
i saw my wisdom teeth in the x-ray today. one of them points _upwards_ |
| 16:27 |
sri |
i think these days they just knock you out completely for wisdom teeth around here |
| 16:27 |
jovial_chat |
haha my last remaining one points sideways out of my cheek |
| 16:27 |
jovial_chat |
sri: oh man i wish laughing gas |
| 16:27 |
jovial_chat |
my friend's had that in the UK |
| 16:27 |
jovial_chat |
but literally all i've ever had is an injection into the gum |
| 16:28 |
jovial_chat |
and into the roof of the mouth |
| 16:28 |
jovial_chat |
that is the most painful bit, the roof |
| 16:28 |
crab |
even with topical anaesthetic before the needle? |
| 16:28 |
jovial_chat |
haha never had that either |
| 16:28 |
nic |
it's actually a really crappy design; why would you put the teeth needing the most dramatic surgery in such an inaccessible place? Reminds of some laptops I've worked on |
| 16:29 |
nic |
[proof there is no Grand Design] |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
pretty much! |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
also tonsils |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
that was more painful than anything else i've ever done |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
they cleaned my ears out at the same time so violently they bled |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
so i woke up unable to speak, unable to hear with blood coming out of both places |
| 16:30 |
jovial_chat |
and it was a couple days before i could eat without it really hurting |
| 16:31 |
jovial_chat |
fuck wisdom teeth, they're trivial by comparison D: |
| 16:31 |
jovial_chat |
oh hey i swore, so much for the politeness |
| 16:31 |
nic |
there, crab, feeling better now? :D |
| 16:35 |
jovial_chat |
how much does a wisdom tooth removal run you guys anyhow? |
| 16:35 |
jovial_chat |
assuming at least some of you are insured |
| 16:35 |
sri |
the moral of the story, don't forget to floss! |
| 16:36 |
sri |
jovial_chat: free |
| 16:36 |
jovial_chat |
literally never flossed, but i'm british so we're not as crazily obsessed with perfectly white teeth as you guys |
| 16:36 |
crab |
what is this "you guys", btw? |
| 16:36 |
jovial_chat |
americans/canadians |
| 16:36 |
jovial_chat |
usually the majority of irc |
| 16:36 |
crab |
not here |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
o rly? i heard we were short on brits |
| 16:37 |
* sri |
hasn't had any dental problems in years (ever since he started getting ocd over flossing) |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
what's the demographics like here? |
| 16:37 |
crab |
ah yes. brits and americans, the two kinds of people in the world ;-) |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
well when you think 'primary english speaking nations' |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
they certainly come first |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
india would be next, and i would expect to see them represented |
| 16:37 |
crab |
o/ |
| 16:37 |
sri |
india is almost british |
| 16:37 |
jovial_chat |
haha i wouldn't say that near indians |
| 16:38 |
jovial_chat |
my coworker has some very strong feelings |
| 16:38 |
jovial_chat |
on exactly what part of india is british haha |
| 16:39 |
* sri |
doesn't know much about india |
| 16:39 |
jovial_chat |
sri: as brits we basically stole everything of value, brutally treated their people |
| 16:39 |
jovial_chat |
and then just sorta said 'yeah you have nothing more of use, go be a country we have divided beyond measure' |
| 16:39 |
Adurah |
At least they have flag now. |
| 16:40 |
jovial_chat |
think the USA and any other country basically |
| 16:40 |
jovial_chat |
you learned all you needed to know about horribly oppressing a populace from us guys, and we're very sorry about that |
| 16:42 |
sri |
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/thefw.com/files/2012/11/coloniesQuickmeme.jpg |
| 16:43 |
jovial_chat |
sri: have you seen cbgrey or whatever his youtube nick is on the UK territories? |
| 16:43 |
jovial_chat |
it's quite informative |
| 16:43 |
* sri |
gets all his education from memes |
| 16:43 |
jovial_chat |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10 |
| 16:44 |
jovial_chat |
well worth a watch |
| 17:07 |
crab |
sri: a question about form_for. the way the arguments are constructed, it's not possible for it to get both $content and $cb, right? |
| 17:09 |
crab |
i.e. if ref $_[-1] eq 'CODE', then there's no string before it. |
| 17:09 |
crab |
ok, i guess that has to be true |
| 17:20 |
marty_ |
jovial_chat: awesome video. very informative. you guys have almost as many territories as the US does foreign military bases. FIX ALL THE EMPIRES! |
| 17:21 |
jovial_chat |
marty_: it really is, there's a number of others he does that are very useful |
| 17:21 |
jovial_chat |
like when people are confused as to 'how the queen works' |
| 17:21 |
marty |
the queen works? I had no idea |
| 17:21 |
jovial_chat |
i'm not exactly a royalist, but i'm not a republican either, and americans are very confused by this |
| 17:21 |
jovial_chat |
she does indeed work |
| 17:21 |
jovial_chat |
she's allowed us to have party based politics but without the ludicrous situation obama finds himself in |
| 17:22 |
jovial_chat |
because she acts a symbolic figurehead and brings us hundreds of millions in revenue at the same time |
| 17:22 |
marty |
I agree that our situation is ludicrous. But I would scoff at "being allowed" by any person who is simply born into power. |
| 17:23 |
jovial_chat |
indeed, but then you have to ask what the benefits are |
| 17:23 |
jovial_chat |
for example, the crown MUST remain non partisan |
| 17:23 |
jovial_chat |
instead of Obama who is clearly a democrat |
| 17:23 |
jovial_chat |
we have the Queen, who must show no favour |
| 17:24 |
jovial_chat |
we also have the house of lords, which is not directly elected and is hard to bias in one way or the other |
| 17:24 |
marty |
The only truly non partisan people I know of are dead. |
| 17:25 |
jovial_chat |
haha that's very true |
| 17:25 |
jovial_chat |
but at least in the case of the crown, their allegience is to the people |
| 17:26 |
marty |
Then why need a crown? |
| 17:26 |
jovial_chat |
the alternative is an elected head of state, ie a president |
| 17:27 |
marty |
that is one alternative (which is no better) but I am sure some day, a better one will arrise |
| 17:27 |
jovial_chat |
sorry, door went |
| 17:28 |
jovial_chat |
well several european countries have equally symbolic leaders |
| 17:28 |
jovial_chat |
but there's not really a viable argument to switch to that system |
| 17:28 |
jovial_chat |
when something has existed for more than a millenia, you need a very good argument to get rid of them :) |
| 17:30 |
marty |
That argument will come when a royal family member comes to power who is batshit crazy and starts abusing their power (in the name of the children) . |
| 17:30 |
jovial_chat |
marty: their power is symbolic only |
| 17:30 |
jovial_chat |
they essentially can ask questions and hold up legislation |
| 17:30 |
marty |
then again, why do you need them? |
| 17:30 |
jovial_chat |
but the actual job of making law is delegated |
| 17:31 |
jovial_chat |
the same reason any country has a figurehead |
| 17:31 |
jovial_chat |
one could argue why does the US need Obama, why can't the house/senate just rule directly |
| 17:31 |
marty |
I would agree with you on that |
| 17:32 |
marty |
I'm not going to argue for the limitations of our current system. it sucks, bad |
| 17:34 |
sri |
marty: they make money |
| 17:34 |
jovial_chat |
they do but it's relatively inconsequential |
| 17:35 |
jovial_chat |
the real power they have for the UK is notability |
| 17:35 |
jovial_chat |
everyone knows who "The Queen" is |
| 17:36 |
sri |
i don't think that's true |
| 17:36 |
jovial_chat |
which part? |
| 17:37 |
marty |
Isn't the queen one of the Kardashian sisters? |
| 17:37 |
sri |
think i misread |
| 17:37 |
jovial_chat |
marty: ;) |
| 17:38 |
jovial_chat |
sri: well my argument is just: all they do is promote the UK's interests and function as an ultimate check on power, if they are to be replaced, those properties have to be matched up |
| 17:38 |
jovial_chat |
and i can't think how that is possible |
| 17:38 |
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| 17:38 |
jovial_chat |
if you end a millenia or more of history, you gotta have an insanely good replacement |
| 17:39 |
jovial_chat |
the special weirdness is that she's also the head of the anglican church, which annoys a lot of atheists |
| 17:40 |
sri |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw # how much money the royals are worth |
| 17:41 |
jovial_chat |
yeah that's a particularly decent summation |
| 17:41 |
marty |
Just cuz something has existed for millennia does not meat is it "good" or even the best option. It could me it was in place by oppression. like um, british colonies. |
| 17:41 |
jovial_chat |
also you see it briefly in that video, but check out our awesome new coinage: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/New_British_Coinage_2008.jpg |
| 17:41 |
jovial_chat |
marty: oh it certainly was put in place by oppression |
| 17:41 |
jovial_chat |
violence and horror in huge measure |
| 17:42 |
jovial_chat |
but the point is that it still exists, the UK is as free or freer than most other nations and still prosperous and a global power |
| 17:42 |
jovial_chat |
that's one hell of a difficult challenge, and the system still works and is still going strong |
| 17:43 |
jovial_chat |
so perhaps it's not good, nor the best option, but it's effective |
| 17:43 |
marty |
so is water boarding |
| 17:43 |
jovial_chat |
and they don't hang people in the tower anymore, so i'd argue that these days it's pretty good too :) |
| 17:43 |
sri |
yea, those coins are awesome |
| 17:43 |
jovial_chat |
marty: right but we don't permit water boarding |
| 17:43 |
jovial_chat |
and there have been a number of scandals over just having UK staff in the same room |
| 17:44 |
jovial_chat |
so i think that's an unfair comparison |
| 17:44 |
jovial_chat |
sri: darwin about to be removed from our £10 note though :( |
| 17:44 |
sri |
:( |
| 17:44 |
jovial_chat |
not politically motivated though, but a point of pride for us |
| 17:44 |
marty |
no, but I guess if anyone gets out of line you could limit the sale of salt to government entities only. that will show those bastards! |
| 17:45 |
jovial_chat |
marty: the thing is the only power the Queen really has is to effectively dissolve the government, she can't directly rule, only reign |
| 17:45 |
jovial_chat |
so there are checks on both sides in that respect |
| 17:45 |
jovial_chat |
parliament can't pass laws that would be oppressive to the populace (in theory) |
| 17:45 |
marty |
I'm sure our southern population is cheering the removal of Darwin. :( |
| 17:46 |
jovial_chat |
and the queen cannot arbitrarily make law without consent of parliament |
| 17:46 |
jovial_chat |
marty: oh i'm sure it'll be all over creationist websites and conservapedia |
| 17:46 |
marty |
effectively dissolve the government? No Power? Did I miss something? |
| 17:46 |
jovial_chat |
marty: that is the power the queen has, to select parliament |
| 17:47 |
jovial_chat |
in an election, we elect a party |
| 17:47 |
jovial_chat |
and that party must form a majority |
| 17:47 |
jovial_chat |
that majority must then seek the queen's assent |
| 17:48 |
jovial_chat |
it's certainly possible for fascist parties to get democratically elected |
| 17:48 |
jovial_chat |
so in principle this functions as an additional check |
| 17:48 |
jovial_chat |
someone who's only concern is the continued wellbeing of the UK is not likely to permit a fascist party to form a government |
| 17:49 |
jovial_chat |
it's pretty complex, but it's been around for so long that's a natural consequence really |
| 17:49 |
marty |
Like i said, when a batshit crazy becomes king and says "I hearby do not assent to the parties and therefor dissolve all future parties (becuase of terrorism)" things will change |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
they can't 'therefore dissolve all future parties' |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
i mean someone could try |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
but good luck |
| 17:50 |
purl |
You'll need it. |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
now that's funny ^ |
| 17:50 |
marty |
just come with a new reason each time |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
it would lead to revolt |
| 17:50 |
jovial_chat |
the ultimate power still is vested in the people |
| 17:51 |
jovial_chat |
besides, the chances of a truly mad king are pretty insignificant these days |
| 17:51 |
marty |
ok fine. moral of story is. Monarchy is no better than all current alternatives. |
| 17:51 |
jovial_chat |
the best we've got is charles, who's a new-age hippy type |
| 17:51 |
jovial_chat |
it has parts that are better, parts that are worse imo |
| 17:51 |
jovial_chat |
i just don't see a convincing reason to change it |
| 17:52 |
jovial_chat |
i would argue that the biggest problems in the US are procedural |
| 17:53 |
jovial_chat |
anyway this is all getting pretty off topic, time for another nick change |
| 17:54 |
jovial_chat |
can't find a pithy enough synonym |
| 18:01 |
marty |
damn. tailable mango cursor locks everything up when the cursor reaches the last record. |
| 18:02 |
sri |
marty: that doesn't sound right |
| 18:03 |
marty |
I've tried with both await_data 1|0 and still get the same thing. I'll see if I can create a lite app that demonstrates the problem. |
| 18:04 |
marty |
It's probably something I am doing wrong. |
| 18:14 |
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| 18:35 |
sri |
marty: certainly, considering there's a unit test for tailable cursor and cocnurrency ;p |
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| 18:53 |
tba |
hi all |
| 18:54 |
tba |
got a mojo routing question :) probably a stupid question, but its baffled me! |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
tba |
if I have /:something, where something can be one of two things (same pattern, say girls names or boys names) - but I want it to go to a different controller/action, how? |
| 18:55 |
tba |
atm I have a bridge with placeholder /:something, and the bridge works out from db what type of thing it is, but how do I get that to go to a controller/action (not sure how I'd attach a ->to on the end) |
| 18:56 |
tba |
or put more simply, i need two routes to two controllers, but both have the same route pattern, only being able to decide in the bridge which type it is |
| 18:58 |
tba |
(something like this: https://gist.github.com/ian-kent/7811154 - atm both route to one controller and its handled in the template, which is horrible) |
| 18:59 |
sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Routing#Conditions |
| 18:59 |
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| 18:59 |
tba |
ahh damnit, thought i'd read that guide properly lol |
| 18:59 |
tba |
thanks sri |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:15 |
tba |
next stupid question (sorry!) |
| 19:16 |
tba |
should $c->continue work in a condition to restart the dispatch chain (using non-blocking mango from the condition) |
| 19:18 |
sri |
no |
| 19:18 |
tba |
ah... |
| 19:18 |
sri |
you should have said that earlier... non-blocking rules out conditions |
| 19:18 |
tba |
sorry |
| 19:19 |
tba |
is there another 'right way to do it', or is delegating to template a reasonable option? |
| 19:19 |
tba |
(well I say reasonable... 'acceptable') |
| 19:20 |
tba |
hmm... can i put non-blocking code in a bridge (to work out what :something is), then attach ->over after that? |
| 19:33 |
tba |
seems not :( |
| 19:34 |
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| 21:37 |
sri |
marcus: some inspiration in case you decide to work on a mojo-admin https://github.com/gterrono/houston |
| 21:38 |
* sri |
would love a mojo-admin for mango |
| 21:38 |
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| 22:01 |
marcus |
sri: Interesting. I was actually thinking about that today. How to do the schema reflection and stuff in a schemaless database. And also that this seems like a perfect case for bootstrap. |
| 22:01 |
sri |
i assume there is no schema reflection |
| 22:02 |
sri |
your create form would have to be dynamic, maybe "add new field" button with "select type of new field" |
| 22:03 |
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| 22:03 |
sri |
you could also select the first document and use it as a blueprint for the default |
| 22:04 |
sri |
oh, maybe steal ideas from the mongohq admin interface :) |
| 22:05 |
sri |
afair they make you enter mongodb commands with javascript syntax |
| 22:06 |
sri |
lots of room for creativity |
| 22:08 |
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| 22:08 |
womble |
If I want to subscribe to events from Redis with Mojo::Redis immediately at startup of my Mojolicious::Lite app, do I need to create an additional loop with $redis->ioloop->start ? |
| 22:09 |
womble |
In the example on CPAN - http://search.cpan.org/~jhthorsen/Mojo-Redis-0.9920/lib/Mojo/Redis.pm - there is standalone use of Mojo::Redis, or inside a route in Mojolicious::Lite |
| 22:10 |
womble |
I don't think I want to use a route though (re: "immediately at startup") so how it fits together is not clear to me |
| 22:45 |
batman |
womble: you can't have an ioloop in the main application. the ioloop is run by all the children |
| 22:45 |
womble |
experimenting says $redis->ioloop->start is stupid before app->start |
| 22:46 |
batman |
womble: yes. that is very stupid. |
| 22:46 |
womble |
:) |
| 22:46 |
batman |
womble: i don't think you want what you're asking for. |
| 22:46 |
womble |
so how do you basically have an infinite while loop popping messages from redis? |
| 22:46 |
batman |
you run a worker beside your web app |
| 22:47 |
batman |
next to. as in a separate process. |
| 22:48 |
batman |
and then you do $redis->blpop('queue', 0, sub { ... }); |
| 22:50 |
womble |
so... how can the separate process communicate with the web app? basically i want my mojolicious::lite controller to submit jobs to resque with resque-perl, and have the resque workers callback the controller when finished, so controller can update a database |
| 22:50 |
womble |
i thought the resque worker -> controller comms should use redis |
| 22:50 |
womble |
but it sounds like the logic for updating the database now might need to lie with the separate worker to pop from the queue |
| 22:51 |
batman |
you check for status updates in the database on a request |
| 22:51 |
batman |
you have no control on how long a mojo worker will live, so a long running while-whatever is always a really bad idea |
| 22:52 |
womble |
after resque worker has completed its work, i want the controller to push out an update to html tables on all clients via websocket |
| 22:52 |
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| 22:53 |
batman |
that's simple enough: let the ws connection do blpop from the "message:$pid" list or something |
| 22:53 |
womble |
so the controller knows about the connected clients, how does the "pop" worker tell the controller what happened to the resque worker job? |
| 22:53 |
batman |
it doesn't. |
| 22:53 |
womble |
ws in controller or pop worker? |
| 22:53 |
batman |
it tells the database about the status, and then the controller pops the status and hands it to the client |
| 22:53 |
batman |
it tells = the worker job |
| 22:54 |
womble |
but how will the controller know the database has updated? timer polling? |
| 22:54 |
batman |
no! blpop ffs |
| 22:54 |
batman |
you're using redis don't you? |
| 22:54 |
womble |
haha sorry |
| 22:55 |
batman |
http://redis.io/commands/blpop |
| 22:55 |
* batman |
gives up |
| 22:55 |
batman |
Zzzzz |
| 22:56 |
womble |
I have tried to warn people on here I am very stupid. sorry |
| 22:57 |
marcus |
womble: do you usually wear a sign? :-) |
| 22:58 |
batman |
womble: saying you're stupid only makes you dumber |
| 22:58 |
batman |
but i would say you're a bad listener / reader |
| 22:58 |
marcus |
http://uphillwriting.org/2011/10/25/hate-stupid/im-with-stupid/ |
| 22:58 |
batman |
you need to pay attention. that way you can learn how to make clever questions. |
| 22:58 |
batman |
marcus: sorry for not converting wirc today. |
| 22:59 |
marcus |
batman: Still on a deadline? |
| 22:59 |
batman |
been working like a crazy man. |
| 22:59 |
marcus |
sounds moderately fun. |
| 22:59 |
batman |
no, but i kind of fucked up a lot today while doing the release :P |
| 22:59 |
marcus |
oopsie :) |
| 22:59 |
* womble |
hands out rotten fruit for throwing at him |
| 23:00 |
batman |
yeah. good think i'm faster than lucky luke at fixing stuff ;) |
| 23:00 |
batman |
and most of the oopsie's i made was before pushing stuff to prod |
| 23:00 |
batman |
renaming-- # stupid little mistakes |
| 23:00 |
marcus |
<3 Stage |
| 23:01 |
marcus |
let's rename everything! :) |
| 23:01 |
batman |
that's what i'm doing :) |
| 23:01 |
marcus |
I was talking to a nerd at oslo.pm who was worried about mongo performance btw |
| 23:02 |
batman |
the problem was that i thought all was ready for production, but then something wasn't so i had to start cherry-picking....... *bad idea* |
| 23:02 |
marcus |
he was running some other setup now, with a postgresql backend, and about 300 channels.... |
| 23:02 |
marcus |
oh, yeah, that can be scary :) |
| 23:02 |
womble |
batman: main problem is I don't understand the terminology you used in your explanation - "you check for status updates in the database on a request" - request from whom? |
| 23:02 |
batman |
oh. |
| 23:02 |
batman |
marcus: wtf?! 300 channels? |
| 23:02 |
womble |
"the controller pops the status and hands it to the client" - in what loop does the controller do the blpop? |
| 23:03 |
batman |
womble: requests are (client --> server) |
| 23:03 |
marcus |
batman: Yeah, I don't think he's the use case we should optimize for ;) |
| 23:03 |
batman |
THERE'S NO FUCKING LOOP! |
| 23:03 |
* womble |
slaps forehead |
| 23:03 |
batman |
womble: read up on blpop. and then read it again. |
| 23:04 |
batman |
marcus: still. i don't get how mongodb is too slow |
| 23:04 |
womble |
when i say controller, i am talking about the thing i app->start (mojolicious::lite app) |
| 23:04 |
marcus |
Then you will see, it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. |
| 23:04 |
womble |
i understand that blpop does nothing until a message is pushed onto the queue |
| 23:04 |
womble |
but WHERE does the blpop go in the controller? |
| 23:05 |
batman |
womble: where do you think? ***think harder**** |
| 23:05 |
marcus |
batman: yeah, I'm not sure it will be an issue either. And I certainly don't want to maintain multiple backends.. |
| 23:05 |
batman |
tip: where you have your ws code |
| 23:05 |
womble |
I can see in your example it could go under a route |
| 23:05 |
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| 23:05 |
batman |
womble: OF COURSE IT HAS TO |
| 23:06 |
womble |
but my understanding is the code in a route only activates when a request is made to the route |
| 23:06 |
batman |
the websocket route will do the blpop and server the response to the client/browser/whatever |
| 23:06 |
womble |
and i want it to blpop from startup inifinitely |
| 23:06 |
batman |
marcus: i think talking about performance when you don't have ONE MILLLION USERS is just stupid. |
| 23:07 |
batman |
womble: NO YOU DON'T. |
| 23:07 |
purl |
Oh yes I do |
| 23:07 |
batman |
womble: want me to tell you that again? |
| 23:07 |
womble |
obviously i don't want the main loop to block |
| 23:07 |
batman |
marcus: unless you're running mojo on a commodore 64... |
| 23:08 |
marcus |
batman: well, we were taxing the shit out of my little vm :) |
| 23:08 |
batman |
womble: you're not even close to figuring this out. |
| 23:08 |
marcus |
batman: mostly ioloop tho |
| 23:08 |
marcus |
womble: what do you want to happen when bl pops? |
| 23:08 |
batman |
womble: i would hire a consultant to do the job if i was you. |
| 23:09 |
batman |
marcus: that's because the vm was running on the c64 hardware :P |
| 23:09 |
batman |
it was like 64MHz CPU and 1k of ram... |
| 23:09 |
womble |
update a database table, send some <td>'s to all clients that previously connected over a websocket |
| 23:09 |
marcus |
xen-on-c64 |
| 23:09 |
marcus |
batman: actually a c64 has a 1mhz cpu and 64k ram |
| 23:09 |
batman |
i know. |
| 23:10 |
batman |
1MHz of pure awesomeness!!!! |
| 23:10 |
womble |
batman: i sincerely apologise for frustrating the sh1t out of you and thank you for trying |
| 23:10 |
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dvinciguerra joined #mojo |
| 23:10 |
marcus |
batman: well, it has a lot of great supporting chipsets too :) |
| 23:10 |
batman |
marcus: after all... 64K is all you'll ever need ;) |
| 23:10 |
marcus |
I thought that was 640k |
| 23:11 |
batman |
it was? |
| 23:11 |
* marcus |
used to tweak the shit out of his dos config to run memory hungry demos |
| 23:11 |
batman |
i've been living a lie :( |
| 23:11 |
marcus |
batman: yeah, bill gates didn't run c64 |
| 23:11 |
batman |
crap. it's 60 minutes past bedtime. |
| 23:11 |
batman |
marcus: hahaha. true that. |
| 23:12 |
batman |
if he did, he would probably know a thing or two about optimizing ;) |
| 23:12 |
batman |
see you around! stay smooth. |
| 23:13 |
marcus |
640K ought to be enough for anybody. Often attributed to Gates in 1981. Gates considered the IBM PC's 640kB program memory a significant breakthrough over 8-bit systems that were typically limited to 64kB, but he has denied making this remark. |
| 23:13 |
marcus |
(https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bill_Gates) |
| 23:13 |
* sri |
wouldn't be too worried about mongodb performance for wirc |
| 23:13 |
marcus |
sri: Good |
| 23:13 |
sri |
when i was considering the irc archive i had a dual collection design in mind |
| 23:16 |
sri |
one collection type you archive all messages to, and one capped collection where you insert the same messages, hypnotoad workers would have one global tailable cursor on the capped collection and distribute realtime messages to websocket subscribers |
| 23:16 |
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| 23:17 |
sri |
capped collections small enough to fit into ram |
| 23:19 |
marcus |
Yeah, that's pretty much what we had in mind as well. |
| 23:19 |
marcus |
I think you have to use capped collections to have tailable cursors, right |
| 23:19 |
sri |
yes |
| 23:21 |
marcus |
I'd really like to buy Bee, but I think it's a bit expensive for a github issues desktop client... |
| 23:21 |
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| 23:21 |
* sri |
is moving away from all kinds of desktop clients and tries to live on the web :) |
| 23:21 |
marcus |
(http://neat.io/bee/) |
| 23:22 |
marcus |
I've moved away from textmate now, back to vim |
| 23:22 |
sri |
blasphemy! |
| 23:22 |
jovial_chat |
vim or bust |
| 23:23 |
jovial_chat |
sri: bought a chromebook? |
| 23:23 |
* sri |
hugs his macbook air |
| 23:23 |
jovial_chat |
tempted to buy my mum one, cheaper than a phone, can be lost or dropped etc |
| 23:23 |
jovial_chat |
haha so much for moving away from the desktop |
| 23:23 |
jovial_chat |
with a $2500 laptop |
| 23:23 |
marcus |
desktop clients.. |
| 23:24 |
jovial_chat |
yeah but without desktop clients you don't need big ssds, or i7 processors etc |
| 23:24 |
marcus |
starting at $1099 |
| 23:24 |
jovial_chat |
ya but nobody buys the $1099 one |
| 23:24 |
sri |
ssds and i7 processors are great for running tests and compiling shit |
| 23:24 |
jovial_chat |
sri: ya but i just do that on a dedi box |
| 23:24 |
marcus |
jovial_chat: I never want to have a machine without ssd again |
| 23:24 |
jovial_chat |
marcus: oh no doubt but i like chromebook style |
| 23:25 |
jovial_chat |
little 16gb ssd or whatever |
| 23:25 |
jovial_chat |
100gb space on drive |
| 23:25 |
marcus |
jovial_chat: chromebook seems like the most useless laptop every |
| 23:25 |
marcus |
the chromebox pixel is kinda pretty hardware-wise tho |
| 23:25 |
jovial_chat |
marcus: if you don't use desktop apps, why would you need anything more than chromeos? |
| 23:25 |
jovial_chat |
that's why i figure it'd be nice for my mum |
| 23:26 |
marcus |
jovial_chat: I actually think chrome is the most cpu/memory hungry beast on my mac :) |
| 23:26 |
sri |
can confirm, chrome is a beast |
| 23:26 |
jovial_chat |
marcus: maybe so but blame modern websites for that, my old 2.8ghz c2d can barely keep up with some sites |
| 23:26 |
jovial_chat |
in ff or chrome or chromium or anything |
| 23:26 |
jovial_chat |
drives me mad |
| 23:27 |
sri |
the fact that chrome now has adb support and can talk to android devices made me chuckle |
| 23:27 |
jovial_chat |
but yeah i have a really expensive laptop i got for free, and i just hate using it |
| 23:27 |
jovial_chat |
it's too big, it's too annoying |
| 23:27 |
sri |
(natively without sdk) |
| 23:27 |
jovial_chat |
i bought an asus tf101 a few years ago |
| 23:27 |
jovial_chat |
it's slow as balls and fairly underwhelming |
| 23:28 |
jovial_chat |
but i don't ever really want a 'proper' laptop again |
| 23:28 |
sri |
back on topic... vim project search still sucks... |
| 23:29 |
marcus |
sri: I use ack on the command line, and ctrl+p |
| 23:29 |
jovial_chat |
i'm cheap, i grep/ack |
| 23:29 |
sri |
yea, doesn't cut it for me |
| 23:29 |
jovial_chat |
what are you looking for exactly? |
| 23:29 |
marcus |
search and replace ? :) |
| 23:30 |
sri |
http://i.imgur.com/EbM6gWN.png # need real find in project, same reason i can't stand sublime text 2/3 |
| 23:30 |
sri |
something comfortable |
| 23:30 |
sri |
i search in project *a lot* |
| 23:31 |
jovial_chat |
and i assume by 'in project' you mean 'in current dir' or something more specific? |
| 23:31 |
sri |
current dir with subdirs |
| 23:31 |
jovial_chat |
looks like just that but i don't use textmate or apple stuff in general |
| 23:31 |
jovial_chat |
sri: i'm slowly adding to my vim config so will keep an eye out |
| 23:32 |
sri |
i'm a vim user too |
| 23:32 |
marcus |
sri: Ever tested http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=69 ? |
| 23:32 |
sri |
just not primarily |
| 23:33 |
marcus |
All three Nordaaker coders are vimming now. |
| 23:33 |
sri |
don't care about sidebar/organization, crtlp is navigation enough for me, what i need is quality find in project |
| 23:34 |
marcus |
sri: That thing had find in project, but I think maybe it's a bit rudimentary |
| 23:34 |
marcus |
based on http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Find_in_files_within_Vim I guess. |
| 23:35 |
sri |
and i hate searching code with regular expressions ;p |
| 23:35 |
sri |
ESCAPE ALL THE THINGS |
| 23:36 |
jovial_chat |
m## best perl feature |
| 23:36 |
jovial_chat |
potentially :D |
| 23:37 |
Jonis |
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2438 might do what you want |
| 23:39 |
sri |
if there was anything as good as i would expect i think janus would include it :) https://github.com/carlhuda/janus |
| 23:41 |
jovial_chat |
i was wondering why my config wasn't working locally |
| 23:41 |
jovial_chat |
i'd installed 'ack' instead of 'ack-grep' |
| 23:42 |
jovial_chat |
ACK is a highly versatile Kanji code checker/converter. ACK can do |
| 23:42 |
jovial_chat |
reciprocal conversion among Japanese EUC, Shift-JIS and 7bit JIS. |
| 23:42 |
jovial_chat |
not so useful! |
| 23:54 |
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