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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-01-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 meshl is $self->session returning a copy of the session's hash or the hash itself? (if I modify the returned hash, will it modify the session?)
00:04 sri hmmm
00:04 * sri wonders if we really want something like this http://i.imgur.com/3A21APN.png
00:04 moritz meshl: the examples in the Mojolicious::Controller docs seem to say the actual hash
00:07 sri here's the patch anyway http://pastie.org/8612266
00:07 sri same can be done for not_found
00:08 sri but i don't know if i want it
00:08 meshl moritz: Not really... At least, what I see @ http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Controller#session is that all modifs are made via a call to session(), so apparently not. I cannot do my $s = $self->session, then modify $s and assume the session will get changed!
00:11 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/8309281 <-- Would need more logic.. it's untested.  Is it a start at saving the last 10 messages in debug mode?
00:12 bpmedley I missed your patch.  Sorry!
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00:20 bpmedley sri: I would very much like that last few lines of the dev log viewable via the browser.  It would help people that don't have physical access to the logs, as well.
00:26 sri think i would do it if Mojo::Log::format wasn't so weird
00:27 sri now i'm too annoyed to build on top of it... good old encoding problems
00:30 bpmedley sri: I assume you would like to see html and text output code paths?
00:30 sri bpmedley: i have no idea what you're saying
00:30 bpmedley What's wrong with Mojo::Log::format?
00:30 sri it returns bytes
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00:34 bpmedley Is the problem that you want a "format" sub that handles pushing to history and writing to the log file?
00:36 sri yes, which is impossible
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00:52 bpmedley sri: https://gist.github.com/brianmed/8309729 <-- Probably not exactly what you want; however, is the logic mostly accurate?
00:53 sri here's the not found page with log http://i.imgur.com/k31dXR3.png
00:54 bpmedley Nice!
00:54 sri bpmedley: because we can just change the arguments of a public method?
00:54 sri i don't understand i'm afraid
00:55 bpmedley I see; the "format" sub is public.  Let me think.
00:56 * sri pokes jberger, marcus, crab and tempire
00:56 sri take a look at the screenshots
00:57 tempire it wasn't too expensive?
00:57 sri nope
00:58 tempire wellst
00:58 tempire I don't see any downsides.
00:58 tempire Also, I need to find a custom shoe-maker.
00:58 sri only stores messages that have actually been logged too
00:58 sri if the level doesn't match it doesn't cost anything
00:59 sri so no cost in production if you don't log
01:00 sri possible downside... cluttered not found and exception pages
01:00 sri and a custom Mojo::Log::format won't actually change the formatting on those pages
01:02 tempire I don't think it's cluttered.
01:02 tempire And it is useful
01:02 sri i guess app->log->max_history_size(0) disables it
01:03 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/8309729  <-- Thoughts?
01:04 sri bpmedley: i'm afraid that does not help at all
01:04 sri the point of Mojo::Log::format is for users to be able to overload it and change the formatting
01:04 bpmedley hrmm
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01:18 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/8309729 <-- It basically works; however, it might be useful for "has dest" to be "has enc_type" or somesuch.
01:19 sri bpmedley: that's where we've been before
01:19 sri it was a nightmare for countless reasons
01:20 bpmedley What about the logical abstraction of "history" and "file" destinations?
01:22 bpmedley Perhaps I should ask; was the nightmare the logical abstraction or allowing encoding type to modified?
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01:31 jberger_ bpmedley it's a strange rabbit hole
01:32 bpmedley jberger_: Which part?
01:32 jberger_ the encoding
01:32 purl the encoding is about has hard as naming things
01:32 jberger_ I've tried twice
01:32 bpmedley Why change the current encoding at all?
01:32 jberger_ Best to say utf8 or die
01:33 bpmedley Even when outputting to the template?
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01:42 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/iQcC1g
01:42 good_news_everyone mojo/master b6dc02b Sebastian Riedel: improved exception and not found pages with log messages
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01:43 sri try it and tell me what you think
01:45 sri i recommend a oneliner like this for testing MOJO_LOG_LEVEL=debug perl -Mojo -E 'get "/lalala"; app->routes->route("/foo")->post("/bar"); a({inline => "test\n123\n% die;\ntset"})->start' daemon
01:45 sri with a bit of everything
01:47 sri not found did look a bit empty before... but it might clutter the exception page
01:48 bpmedley Works for me and I do like it.  The only thing is that the time() in the log may differ than what is output to the exception page.
01:49 sri who cares about the fraction of a second?
01:50 sri also, a real log file may be shared by multiple processes, history is per process, so there might be a difference
01:50 bpmedley No one, really.. :)
01:51 bpmedley Can we shimmy in a unique identifier to the log.. ;)
01:52 lucs sri: The Radio-Canada radio station here "beeps" the official noon hour time signal every day, but they've been off by about 2/3 of a second for the last year and a half.
01:52 lucs Drives me nuts!
01:53 sri of course we have that one person who cares in this channel at this very time! :)
01:53 lucs I even complained, nothing happened :)
01:54 lucs They screwed it up when a leap second was added, was it in 2012, 2011, not sure anymore.
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02:05 * sri notices that jberger has not stated his opinion yet
02:11 * sri wonders if lines should be concatenated already in the history
02:12 bpmedley That depends.  It's easy to add and hard to take away; do you want the history lines to be utilized by the app?
02:15 sri you tell me
02:16 sri is it something people would want to utilize?
02:16 bpmedley People have a funny way of using all data that is pubically available.
02:16 bpmedley haha.. publically.
02:17 sri oh my... centos and rhel merged
02:19 bpmedley Is the for loop in the exception template an issue?  It may not be as succint as other parts of the code.
02:21 bpmedley https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/b6dc02b645f94a2b5433c4da24ff6281fef74cb3#diff-d9ceaea80896e18850704cf341927e39R226 <-- Should that line be there?
02:25 sri hmm... maybe another issue...log messages that happen after the template has been rendered are of course not included in the page
02:25 bpmedley It could be useful in an app to have a javascript popup of the previous # of log lines.
02:26 sri those kind of plugins don't need the history, they can just use the message event to collect their own
02:28 bpmedley I don't think people would mind that so much.  We're talking about web developers who are supposed to understand that i/o that happens after an event will not be shown.  Does that make sense?   <-- In reference to the log messages not rendered after the template is shown.
02:29 bpmedley My vote is almost always on the gimme side.  I want the data in format that I can extract and translate.
02:30 bpmedley However, I do see your point that they don't necessarily need the history array reference.
02:32 bpmedley Yet, if they don't have access to the history array reference and would like it, then the memory size of the app is increased - with custom code and an array somewhere.
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03:37 hellyna hi all. quick question: how do I use the tag helpers to insert attributes that has no parameters? ie <input type="text" name="bla" disabled> <-- disabled attr
03:46 hellyna maybe i didn't phrase my qn good enough, but i want to insert the disabled attr on demand ie <input type="text <%= $disabled %>> but I want to make use of the flexibility offered by the tag helpers
04:01 bpmedley hellyna: I don't see that option in the code.  Could be there and I just missed it.
04:17 hellyna bpmedley: aww. :(
04:26 hellyna maybe i write a patch or something.
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04:34 bpmedley $tag .= qq{ $_ } for grep({ !defined $attrs{$_} } sort keys %attrs);  # Then delete the undefs in %attrs  <-- Mojolicious/Plugin/TagHelpers.pm
04:34 bpmedley Untested.
04:53 stokachu could someone check this code http://sprunge.us/RcTT and see if thats expected?
04:53 stokachu i would've thought that path('sobjects') would be appended to v27.0/
04:54 stokachu but thats getting stripped off
04:55 bpmedley Is DDP required?
04:55 stokachu its just a data printer
04:55 stokachu its not required you could do print or say
04:58 stokachu bpmedley: what do you think? is this intended behavior?
04:59 bpmedley stokachu: Moment
04:59 stokachu ah ok
05:01 bpmedley stokachu:  Mojo::URL->new("https://na15.salesforce.com/services/data/v27.0/")->path('sobjects')->to_string   <-- Note the "/" after v27.0.
05:01 bpmedley http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/URL#path
05:01 stokachu ok lemme try that
05:02 stokachu bpmedley: yep needed the ending slash
05:02 stokachu thanks for the extra set of eyes
05:02 bpmedley Does the documentation make sense?
05:03 stokachu it does now that i look more closely at those 3 examples
05:03 bpmedley Sweet.  Happy Mojo.
05:04 stokachu im not sure if its worth making the results more recognizable
05:04 bpmedley In the documentation?
05:04 stokachu yea, i could see how people could easily miss the path reduction from 2nd to 3rd example
05:05 bpmedley Dunno.  How could the docs be modified?
05:06 stokachu hmm maybe say first example replaces entire path, second removes last element of path and replaces with DOM/HTML and the third appends to the existing path without modification
05:06 stokachu but again it could just be me
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05:08 bpmedley Hrmm.  Not sure; the code is out there for pull requests, I have heard that in the channel before.
05:09 stokachu ok ill look it over and see
05:09 stokachu it makes sense now that i recognized the syntax error
05:09 bpmedley Syntax error or semantic mis-hap?
05:11 stokachu probably the latter
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05:32 hellyna bpmedley: thanks for the idea.
05:32 bpmedley You are welcome.
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07:16 batman to bad mesh has left :/
07:17 batman jberger__: the api sucks becuase i started on it before Mojo::IOLoop->delay existed and once it was introduced i tried to make it compatible with the way i was already doing it instead of deprecating the old way
07:17 batman i also suspect you think the api sucks because i'm (ab)using the delay inside the api, but i don't think i will fix that at the time.
07:18 batman i will however deprecated the on_ crap and just require a callback at the end
07:18 batman the "delay" key in the argument hash is super confusing.
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09:24 batman bummer: Message: Can't connect to pause.perl.org:443 :(
09:25 batman does http://pause.perl.org/ work for anyone else?
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09:48 damaya Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at pause.perl.org.
09:48 damaya batman: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/
09:49 batman thanks
09:49 damaya you're welcome :)
09:49 batman :)
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10:58 rdunklau Hello.
10:59 rdunklau I'm a beginner using Mojolicious. I usually use python with the jinja templating language, and I wondered wether mojo provides something similar to "macros": http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/templates/#macros
11:04 firnsy_ rdunklau: they look synonymous to helpers ... http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious#helper
11:05 nic also check out partial templates
11:05 firnsy_ ... there are a number of preconfigured taghelpers ... http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Plugin/TagHelpers
11:08 rdunklau firnsy, nic: Ok, this looks like what I want is really a custom tag helper.
11:11 firnsy rdunklau: yes, you can create your own custom helpers which are accessible in templates
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12:55 jberger__ batman understood
12:56 jberger__ I have read enough of your code at this point to know that that looked older
12:56 jberger__ We all have old code!
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13:52 batman jberger_: https://github.com/jhthorsen/cloudinary # i'm deprecating the old api now. what do you think?
13:52 * jberger_ looks
13:53 batman jberger_: i can't do $cb->($self, $error, $res); without breaking the api though.
13:55 jberger_ batman++
13:56 batman jberger_: cool! to bad i can't release the new version :(
13:57 jberger_ Oh btw, I have not tried, but I suspect that my problem with convos was that I was using the backend but also I had the embedded switch on (as by default)
13:57 jberger_ I noticed the difference in the new doc
13:58 jberger_ So I checked, I can imagine that funny frontend backend interaction was going on
13:59 batman i have no idea which problems you are referring to :(
14:03 marcus batman: I guess he was running two backends?
14:03 batman ok.
14:03 batman marty: are you going to oslo.pm tonight?
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14:05 batman ooops! marcus ^
14:06 marcus batman: yes. I asked you ~2h ago if you were going :)
14:06 marcus batman: in #oslo.pm
14:06 PerlNinja greetings and salutations... i'm having some really weird things happening with the new $self->continue thing in a bridge
14:06 batman marcus: wireless drivers suck, so i suck. i'm going to :)
14:06 marcus batman: cool. See you there!
14:06 PerlNinja first page load all works as expected,  when reloading the page you get a 404 not found, no routes match
14:06 PerlNinja any ideas?
14:07 PerlNinja cos it's driving me batty
14:15 PerlNinja here's a paste of the log output: http://pastebin.com/eFMfZaGg
14:16 moritz how about calling ->render in the callback?
14:16 moritz oh sorry, didn't see you called ->continue
14:18 PerlNinja -.-
14:23 PerlNinja anyway, if you want to use ->continue in a bridge, the bridge sub should return undef, or is the return value ignored?
14:23 moritz anyway, I'll be very surprised if anyone can help you without seeing the relevant code
14:23 PerlNinja on that note
14:23 PerlNinja http://pastebin.com/tXwrc3ye
14:25 marcus PerlNinja: bridge should return false
14:25 PerlNinja added some additional debug stuff just now that shows it does, in both cases, end up in the frontpage action, and that calls $self->render
14:31 * jberger_ still doesn't really understand bridges
14:31 jberger_ :-\
14:34 PerlNinja here it is with the additional debug output, it does go thru the entire action chain but decides somehow to 404 out on the 2nd request: http://pastebin.com/hW9T6wvu .... and it only does this for that specific action, all others work fine - i'm either totally missing something, or i've gone full retard somewhere
14:41 PerlNinja ho-hum... updating the TtRenderer plugin to the latest version seems to have solved the problem... which is really bloody odd
14:43 PerlNinja jberger, bridges are fun >.>
14:53 * sri is still looking for opinions on log lessages in the not found and exception pages! http://i.imgur.com/k31dXR3.png
14:54 sri http://i.imgur.com/3A21APN.png
14:54 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/b6dc02b645f94a2b5433c4da24ff6281fef74cb3
14:54 PerlNinja opinion: yeas please
14:54 * hrupp likes
14:55 batman why can't i just read the log from the console?
14:55 batman it looks fancy, but i don't think i'll use it much...
14:56 PerlNinja saves my alt-tab key from an excursion to the console and reading the log there - better might as well see it right then and there
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15:02 batman :)
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15:18 * sri pokes marcus, jberger and crab
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15:19 hesco When I visit a statis page and get raw (though apparently well-formed) html rather than a rendered site, what does that suggest might be wrong with my mojo app?
15:20 hesco s/statis/static/
15:22 hesco never mind, it means that w/o a file extension, mojo assumes text, rather than html and likely sends headers saying as much.
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15:49 sri hmm... so far the votes are pretty evenly distributed between "yes, please" and "don't care"
15:49 sri nobody against the feature yet though
15:57 marcus sri: +1
15:57 purl 1
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16:04 marty batman:  since oslo is 5620 km away from Oregon I think I'm going to miss it.   :)
16:04 batman hehe
16:04 batman too bad. maybe next time? :)
16:05 marty Thanks for the invite though.   \o/
16:05 batman ;)
16:06 batman sure.
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16:27 phillipadsmith sri: +1 for log messages on the exception page
16:39 sri hmmmm...
16:39 irq is the template selecting logic logic behind the extension like ".html" or ".txt" to the url ready to any extension or only to some predefined ones. I am thinking about the ".xls" extension and a template rendering with Excel::Writer::XLSX
16:40 * sri wonders what's better... "Rendering inline template." or "Rendering inline template "386d52bb3f2a581a1b21007d7de8d1aa"." with checksum
16:40 sri since inline templates don't have a name... multiple of them after another can look like duplicate log messages
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16:42 sri screenshot above is a good example http://i.imgur.com/k31dXR3.png
16:43 sri first inline template is not_found.development... and the second a partial mojobar...
16:44 lucs Can the user do anything with that checksum?
16:45 sri the checksum stays the same for templates that don't change
16:45 sri so you could identify a specific inline template throughout your log
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16:46 lucs Then I think it might be useful to have them.
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16:47 lucs If it doesn't cost much to display them, why not.
16:47 sri no cost, we use the checksum internally already
16:50 bpmedley jberger: Do you understand $r->under?
16:52 sri here's an example for how it would look afterwards http://i.imgur.com/ViUdGYv.png
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16:54 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/B06OJA
16:54 good_news_everyone mojo/master e865af5 Sebastian Riedel: improved inline templates to use their checksum as name
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16:54 * jberger_ reads backlog
16:57 jberger_ sri: I like it as long as there isn't much performance hit
17:00 bpmedley Aren't the routes a tree structure?  If so, is the bridge kinda like a graft between two tree segments?  Does that make sense?
17:01 jberger_ Hmmmm interesting way to think about it
17:01 jberger_ Next time I try I'll keep that in mind
17:01 bpmedley If the question is correct... :)
17:02 jberger_ Most of my recent works have simple routers, and care more about the async
17:02 jberger_ Which I do get
17:31 sri i guess the feature stays then
17:32 sri one last thing though... is the history format right?
17:32 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Log.pm#L69
17:33 sri [[$epoch, $level, @lines]...]
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17:35 sri two other options would be to store only formatted messages [$msg_as_logged, ...] or lines of a message already joined [[$epoch, $level, $lines], ...]
17:56 sri *crickets*
17:56 sri well, at least nobody gets to complain when i dictate the format ;p
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18:30 tempire ok, who's going to make the perl plugin for light table?
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19:18 marcus Tempire++ # well volunteered
19:18 tempire I'll volunteer the mojolicious aspect of it after the perl part is done.
19:24 marcus Sri: considered adding -asc to .perltidyrc?
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19:35 sri Marcus: no
19:36 sri we've not changed the .perltidyrc in years
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19:37 sri like 3 years :o
19:40 marcus sri: I convinced batman to add a perltidy precommit hook to convos. He wants that flag in our perltidyrc. Was curious about your opinion.
19:40 sri unless it's totally life changing awesome i think we'll pass
19:40 marcus Fine :)
19:40 sri i just tried it... and it doesn't work in the cases i tested
19:41 marcus :o
19:41 marcus Does not work?
19:41 * marcus nudges purl
19:41 sri "semicolon missing after use line... lets merge it with the next line!"
19:42 marcus Ouch. Guess I will pass too.
19:42 sri oooh
19:42 sri missing *optional* semicolons
19:42 sri yea... pass
19:42 sri i'm not even sure what exactly that means
19:42 sri batman: EXPLAIN
19:43 * sri thinks he gets it
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19:43 sri sub { foo; bar; baz }
19:44 sri it adds a semicolon after baz
19:44 marcus Yes. Which case breaks?
19:45 sri lol, and it only works if there's a newline after baz
19:46 sri not really life changing ;p
19:49 sri marcus: you did actually make sure it's not activated by default before asking, right?
19:49 sri batman--, marcus-- # it's activated by default
19:53 sri lets rewrite mojolicious in go!
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20:20 chansen yay, when is it ready sri?
20:21 sri christmas
20:21 purl christmas is probably all jolly goofy shit. weee! or o/~ we wish you a spendy christmas o/~ x3; o/~ and a 'spensive new year o/~ or not yet or next year or when Perl6 is released.
20:21 chansen hehe
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20:25 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v4.67 at 71535ae: http://git.io/pXU-DA
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20:27 sri oh, pause is down :S
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20:48 * tempire looked into go
20:48 * tempire doesn't hate it
20:49 sri it's damn comfortable for a systems programming language
20:50 sri although recently rust seems to be getting all the hype
20:51 dsteinbrunner gojolicious
20:53 sri oh look, a sinatra clone https://github.com/codegangsta/martini
20:56 tempire I remember liking the toolchain
20:57 sri what go has going (haha) for it is the amount of new high profile projects written in it
20:58 sri stuff like docker and etcd
20:58 tempire huh
20:58 tempire didn't know docker was go
20:59 sri the total lack of syntax sugar makes me a little sad though
21:00 * sri would still rather be programming perl6
21:00 tempire truth
21:01 tempire I really want to push past the tipping point in haskell at some point.
21:01 tempire I made a simple website, but never went past that.
21:01 tempire And I always end up wanting to create a monad system in perl for any major application.
21:02 sri hehe
21:12 moritz it seems to me that rust and go are in slightly different niches
21:12 moritz at least my impression is that rust is more low-level, and go more convenient
21:13 moritz though I haven't written a single line of rust code, so I could be wrong.
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21:34 sri sucks that pause can just disappear for a day :S
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21:58 marty git hub is down. :(
22:13 jberger_ DOWN ALL THE THINGS!
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22:50 batman sri: sorry. i thought it wasn't
22:50 batman i'm new to all this perltidy things
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23:02 sri oh crap... the pause server has hard drive failures
23:03 cfedde_ that sucks.
23:03 purl The rock is now off.
23:03 cfedde_ purl: please restore the rock to its previous state.
23:03 purl cfedde_: sorry...
23:05 batman sri: where did you learn that?
23:06 sri http://log.perl.org/2014/01/multiple-hard-drive-faliure.html
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23:07 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih deleted v4.67 at 71535ae: http://git.io/yADOnQ
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23:08 batman crap.
23:25 jberger_ Yikes!
23:27 cfedde_ Interesting. Not only drives failing but time is going backwards!
23:28 cfedde_ re Update 1/8/2013 5:49pm EST:...
23:45 sri curious that a before_render hook keeps coming up
23:45 sri so many people want it... but all for the wrong reasons
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