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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-01-17

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01:19 davido Hi all.
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01:32 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pTzjug
01:32 good_news_everyone mojo/master c3ae16e Sebastian Riedel: new FAQ answer for event loops
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02:06 jberger https://github.com/jberger/MojoBook
02:06 jberger only one real file so far
02:07 jberger https://github.com/jberger/MojoBook/blob/master/deployment.tex
02:30 phillipadsmith jberger: curious… why latex, given that Github natively supports markdown?
02:31 phillipadsmith (very exciting, nonetheless…)
02:34 tianon because he'll publish it eventually, and if it's in LaTeX it will be beautiful <3
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03:07 jberger phillipadsmith, mostly its because I know how to manage a large project in LaTeX
03:07 jberger that and the ability to do internal referencing in a sane way
03:07 phillipadsmith i.e., linking from one page to another?
03:08 jberger right, marker to marker
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03:08 jberger also bibliography etc
03:08 jberger not sure if there will be much bibliography, but ... you never know
03:08 jberger see: https://github.com/jberger/Thesis
03:09 jberger note the /inc/ directory
03:09 phillipadsmith Right, right. I guess I'm so used to the markdown-ification of everything. Easy to read (online), etc.
03:09 jberger there is mathb.in which could help
03:09 jberger per-page
03:10 * phillipadsmith 's mind melts looking at compound.tex ...
03:10 jberger hmmm ... maybe mathb.in won't help :-/
03:10 jberger sharelatex.com could tho
03:11 jberger compound.tex is generated
03:13 jberger want to see something mind melting: https://github.com/jberger/Thesis/blob/master/inc/hardware/laser/crystal_geo.tex
03:13 jberger that's hand-crafted with love
03:15 jberger http://ultrafast.phy.uic.edu/berger_thesis.pdf
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03:16 * jberger wonders if he should develop the book on sharelatex
03:17 * jberger wonders if it would encourage collaboration
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09:10 rawler hmm.. strange behavior from Mojo.. I'm trying to install an exception-renderer for json..
09:10 rawler $self->respond_to(
09:10 rawler json => { json => $e }
09:10 rawler );
09:10 rawler seems to work as expected.. I.E. json is returned..
09:11 rawler but if I
09:11 rawler die "Horribly";
09:11 rawler just before that, the log says "Template "exception.development.html.ep" not found." ?
09:11 rawler shouldn't it look for exception.development.json.ep in this case?
09:11 rawler (Accept: application/json is in request headers)
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09:33 Adura Avoid pasting more than one line of code.
09:34 nicomen that would save 2 lines out of 10...
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11:45 cl Hello, web-newbies question: Will a client always be handled by the same worker?  (I'm working on a web frontend to an existing db-application, which requires a per user db-login)
11:47 cl Guess, I have to reconnect to the db on every request. Is that right?
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12:00 mil Yes
12:01 mil Or you could implement a connection pool that keeps per user connections alive for some time so you don't have to connect on every request
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12:07 cl Thank you mil.
12:07 cl But the connection pool won't be shared between different workers...
12:10 cl Or is there a way to ensure, same client is always handled by the same worker?
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12:12 rawler no ideas regarding my json-exception-handling question?
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12:31 nic sri: At least one important API (Google Analytics) doesn't like the way perl 5.18 juggles the order of keys in a hash
12:32 nic I was assuming/hoping they didn't care about key order, but turns out that's why it works in 5.16 and not 5.18
12:32 nic Also turns out everything works again if I change "keys" to "sort keys" in JSON::_encode_object
12:33 nic I'm guessing (but just want to check) that you're not interested in adding the sort because the problem is specific to one (dumb) API
12:34 nic I suppose monkey_patch could come to the rescue, seeing as I only need this for the GA access
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12:45 jberger nic you sure you're talking to the right super villain?
12:46 nic :D
12:49 edeca Starting with a blank sheet, what ORM would people recommend for a simple webapp?  I am not tied to a particular DB backend.
12:50 crab i'd recommend staying with the blank sheet and avoiding ORMs.
12:50 edeca crab: Seriously?  Literally build SQL queries? :\
12:51 moritz edeca: I personally like DBIx::Class
12:51 jberger DBIx::Class is the king of the hill
12:51 edeca I had just read the docs for that, it looked nice.  But didn't want to jump
12:52 jberger ORLite is written by a favorite author of mine, only works with SQLite
12:52 edeca jberger: I also looked at that.  sqlite would be fine for my data volume but I'm not so used to it, would need to read a little
12:52 jberger But I haven't actually tried it
12:53 jberger SQLite is not so different from other sql dbs
12:53 jberger In usage
12:53 hrupp Rose::DB also is quite nice
12:54 edeca Thanks hrupp
12:54 edeca That one isn't on https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Database-support
12:54 jberger Finally there is also Mandel which is very new, but much more mojo
12:54 purl okay, jberger.
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13:48 rawler nic: FWIW, JSON defines objects key-order to be "unordered"..
13:48 rawler I.E. making assumptions of key-order is unsupported by JSON spec.. not that it helps you, I'm afraid.. :-/
13:48 cl Is setting MOJO_DAEMON_DEBUG=1 the highest DEBUG level I can get for the builtin servers?
13:51 cl cert/key/ca seem to be silently ignored / overridden by defaults if the specified files do not exist
14:17 genio Has anyone put together something along the lines of ModSecurity with hypnotoad?
14:19 Adura Doesn't it just bandage crappy coding practices?
14:20 genio Yes... and no, not really.  It prevents lots of crap from ever even getting to your code.  You could look at it as a bandage, but try to think of it more as a firewall, if you will.
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14:38 jberger_ I'm not sure why any of this has to do with Mojo::JSON
14:38 jberger_ what
14:40 jberger share the love
14:40 purl i think share the love is at http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/eurooscon/view/e_sess/7497
14:40 jberger spread the love
14:40 purl jberger: that gave some error
14:40 jberger I'll never understand Bender
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14:49 nicomen jBender?
14:52 genio Bender: do you trust me?
14:52 Bender Hell no, are you kidding me?
14:52 genio Bender: spread the love
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14:52 purl genio: QUELLE BELLE JOURNÉE, MA PETITE LOUTRE SATINÉE, MON CORE NE BAT QUE POUR TOI, TON NOMBRIL EST UN NID D'AMOUR !
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14:53 nicomen http://www.benderapp.com/ ;)
14:54 genio nicomen: not at _all_ what I was expecting
15:00 nicomen me neither ;)
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15:12 ioguix hello guys.
15:12 purl rumour has it hello guys. is it true that Larry Wall has said that because in perl AND has a higher precedence than OR, it proves that perl is a postmodern language (on the grounds that postmodernism has to do with favoring AND more than OR, whatever that means)
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15:16 ioguix I'm messing with select_field use a mojo-collection in a reusable template block: after the first call of the reusable block, the select_field returns empty list :/
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15:19 ioguix well, to be precise, I give an array of mojo->collection, to produce optgroups
15:19 ioguix after the first call, collections in there are all emptied
15:20 ioguix does it ring any bell to someone here ? Did anyone had this issue already ?
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15:28 ioguix bwaaah... _select_field use splice on the collection :'-(
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15:35 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2gtjcQ
15:35 good_news_everyone mojo/master 9d8e446 Sebastian Riedel: fixed select_field helper to be nondestructive
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15:35 ioguix huuh :)
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15:42 ioguix thank you guy :)
15:42 ioguix (I don't know your nick here ;))
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15:49 marty ioguix: that mysterious guy be... sri
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15:49 marty hey, that rhyms if you say sri individually  \o/
15:49 marty gotta run...
15:50 btyler was about to ask if there was a mojo version of "python -m SimpleHTTPServer" and then found jberger++'s blog: http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger/2013/01/a-quick-static-file-webserver.html # thanks jberger from a year ago
15:51 ioguix sri: then thank you sri :)
15:51 meshl jberger is magic ;)
15:51 ioguix amazing reactivity ;
15:51 meshl his blog posts also enlightened me a few times :)
15:53 * jberger blushes
15:53 jberger I actually improved it at some point
15:54 jberger To properly handle index.html in any path
15:54 jberger But I'm not sure if or where i posted it
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15:59 iankent hi all
15:59 iankent qq - encoding a hash using Mojo::JSON and URLs get escaped, which doesn't match the behaviour of other JSON encoders like JSON::XS
15:59 iankent e.g.
15:59 iankent perl -e 'my $o = { url => "http://www.google.com/abc/def/" }; use Mojo::JSON 'j'; print j($o);'
15:59 iankent outputs this:
15:59 iankent {"url":"http:\/\/www.google.com\/abc\/def\/"}
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16:00 iankent whereas this one:
16:00 iankent perl -MJSON::XS -e 'my $o = { url => "http://www.google.com/abc/def/" }; print encode_json $o;'
16:00 iankent outputs this:
16:00 iankent {"url":"http://www.google.com/abc/def/"}
16:00 iankent is this right, and if so, how can I resolve it? other websites serving json content (e.g. google) don't seem to escape urls
16:01 meshl Hopefully soon we'll have an XS option for JSON in Mojolicious!
16:02 iankent would be cool, but not the major prob - escaped urls seems unexpected when compared to other services (and would expect Mojo::JSON and JSON::XS to output the same, even if one is much slower)
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16:03 meshl i am saying going XS may actually force to resolve this issue...
16:03 iankent in which case, does that imply it is a bug with Mojo::JSON, or is the behaviour of Mojo::JSON by design?
16:03 mst sri: http://imgur.com/gallery/NvTQUwq
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16:05 meshl HA! bug or not, sorry, I am too much of a beginner to answer that - I'll leave it to the experienced lurkers...
16:07 meshl we're not the only ones: http://www.programmingrelief.com/881336/Why-Does-Json-Encoder-Adds-Escaping-Character-When-Encoding-Urls%3F
16:09 iankent hmm, interesting, thanks! might have to switch to JSON::XS (not a major prob as we're deploying that anyway, just a bit surprising)
16:09 meshl and on that very page: "According to http://www.json.org/, one should escape that character, although it is not strictly necessary in JavaScript"
16:09 iankent oh, now thats more surprising - does that mean its actually JSON::XS (and the rest of the world) which are "wrong"?
16:11 meshl hehe, all depends on what you consider the standard... it's like the semicolons unnecessary for Javascript code... who is "right"?
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16:18 iankent haha fair point
16:18 iankent bit of experimentation shows most (all?) json decoders are happy with the escaped slashes
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16:26 meshl yeah, iankent, i guess: don't sweat it, and don't consider all JSON encoders should behave the same... if you want to ensure the forward slashes are unescaped, unescape them always...
16:32 iankent not too worried, we were just surprised... but, we've just monkey patched mojo::json to use JSON::XS internally, so all sorted :) (and a ~20% speed increase!)
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16:35 genio Forgive my stupid, but what's the point in Mojo::JSON?  There is already a PP and XS version of the JSON encoder/decoder.  Why recreate it under Mojo::?
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16:37 genio JSON::MaybeXS and you're done.
16:37 iankent genio: so theres no dependencies, Mojolicious can be installed with (almost no) other CPAN modules
16:37 iankent (not as painful as installing catalyst for example :p)
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16:39 genio I get that argument, I do... but only to a point.  recreating so much seems overkill
16:41 meshl Mojo:JSON is not full featured... it has not been "recreated". It's very clear that if you want something complete you gotta use an external module. Mojo::JSON is just a very basic module allowing to do the simple things Mojolicious needs, and not more
16:42 genio meshl: ah, ok.
16:42 purl hmmm... ah, ok. is eric also a giek?
16:42 * genio goes back to shutting up
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16:50 ioguix bye guys, have a good week-end !
16:50 * ioguix away
17:04 tianon and always following RFCs as closely as possible, instead of just making something that does everything for everyone in every way possible :)
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17:08 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KLcGVA
17:08 good_news_everyone mojo/master cd15595 Sebastian Riedel: character u007f is not mentioned in RFC 4627
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19:06 jberger The mojo tools are always the most rfc compliant in my experience
19:06 jberger sri is very good about that
20:00 tempire_ hmm
20:00 tempire_ https://gobyexample.com/
20:01 tempire_ Is an excellent idea.
20:01 * tempire_ wonders if it would be good for mojolicious, or if the guides fulfill that need already
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20:22 batman is it normal to have a "release commit" in the git log? like you do all the work, and then the version number + some other minor stuff goes into a new commit?
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20:33 sri mst: that was v... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNODOGE!
20:34 sri iankent, genio: no... no deps is not the reason Mojo::JSON exists, had you looked at the pod you would have a pretty good idea for why it exists
20:36 sri and while we are at shitty oneliners... perl -MJSON::XS -E 'say encode_json {lulz => 9**9**9}'
20:38 * sri thought someone would notice he had not said a word in a week :o
20:40 * sri is going to vanish more often now... *disappears in a cloud of smoke*
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20:43 tempire_ wait!
20:43 * tempire_ pokes sri
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20:43 * tempire_ recalls sri
20:43 * tempire_ awakens sri
20:44 tempire_ and everyone else for that matter.
20:44 tempire_ what sort of examples would you like to see if there were a https://gobyexample.com/ for mojolicious?
20:48 sri http://img1.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-duelinganalogs-games-monster-507571.png
20:49 sri tempire_: ALL THE THINGS
20:49 sri but seriously... ask the beginners
20:50 sri "how to build a forum?"
20:51 sri for anyone still worried about Mojo::JSON... compare these two and have a good laugh! https://metacpan.org/source/MAKAMAKA/JSON-PP-2.27203/lib/JSON/PP.pm vs https://metacpan.org/source/SRI/Mojolicious-4.67/lib/Mojo/JSON.pm
20:52 * tempire_ summons the beginners
20:52 tempire_ COME FORTH
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21:00 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4Vp4LQ
21:00 good_news_everyone mojo/master 7947c2e Sebastian Riedel: a few more Mojo::JSON tests
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21:02 sri btw. i'm going to leave simple issues open on github, so there's something to do for people that want to step up
21:02 sri it won't be easy, but i'm trying a more hands off approach to managing mojolicious :)
21:03 sri MUST... CONTROL... OCD
21:06 genio heh
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21:16 sri oh, in case someone missed my attempts at explaining some mojolicious concepts https://github.com/kraih/mojo/compare/66e07af94c4bca493b7a9dafdcc02d20dc6778ef...c3ae16e86dda0e70150da853db28322ecc704d77
21:18 * sri carefully looks around the room, shrugs, and vanishes in a cloud of smoke again
21:19 batman sri++
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22:12 tempire_ Might be interesting to have answers to mojolicious questions integrated into duckduckgo
22:20 * jberger throws a snowball at sri
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22:50 rj11 I want to add some events to my app that plugins can hook into. Is it recommended to a) use $app->hook and $app->plugins->emit; or b) extend EventEmitter and put it somewhere else?
22:52 jberger_ sri I like the doc patch
22:53 jberger_ rj11 I have never needed at add hooks, extending EventEmitter should usually be enough
22:54 jberger_ s/at/to/
22:54 jberger_ the new android swipe type is even more annoying than the old one
23:00 * sri throws the snowball back at jberger
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23:02 jberger_ sri I did notice the absence, but your continued commits were a nice heartbeat to know you were still alive :-P
23:04 sri i could have been abducted and forced to commit backdoors! :p
23:05 jberger_ A likely story
23:06 sri i see you've been slacking today with the mojobook
23:06 * sri cracks the whip
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23:12 jberger yes, how dare I $work :-P
23:13 * jberger pushes the commits from the train ride
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23:15 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AT8wlg
23:15 good_news_everyone mojo/master ef84ef1 Sebastian Riedel: added get command to examples in Mojolicious::Lite tutorial
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23:17 sri jberger: do you have a chapter list yet?
23:18 jberger I'm working on the tooling really
23:18 jberger low-level latex crap
23:18 sri i see
23:18 jberger but do it right now and never worry about it again
23:18 jberger I expect that it will follow the guides for the most part
23:18 jberger that's really the problem, the guides are so good, you almost don't need a book
23:19 jberger I wonder how long the guides would be in printed form?
23:19 * sri thinks if he was going to write a book he'd use ia writer or so and format everything once it is done
23:21 sri well, the guides are really just a dense list of features, from a book i'd expect a more playful introduction, with growing examples
23:22 sri mojocasts-ish flow
23:24 sri on the other hand... feature list-ish book can also be quite popular... http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021292.do http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920019664.do
23:27 jberger conversational style is what I hope to offer
23:27 jberger I think there is some space to work
23:27 sri from what i hear the biggest problem with self publishing is the lack of good editing
23:28 jberger mostly I'm just surprised at how often I see requests for a Mojolicious book on here
23:28 jberger yeah, I will be asking for review along the way, from all the regulars here
23:28 jberger which is part of why I'm thinking about trying out sharelatex.com
23:29 jberger I don't really expect that the other mojo devs have a properly set up latex environment
23:29 sri so you're sure you want to self publish?
23:29 jberger not really
23:29 jberger but ...
23:29 jberger I'm not really sure what else to do
23:30 jberger I don't really care if I make any money,
23:30 jberger open source isn't about money, its about fame
23:30 jberger with fame you get a $job, and it pays $money
23:31 jberger or at least that's how its been working for me so far :-)
23:31 jberger (that sounded really cynical, I didn't mean it that way)
23:32 jberger I don't expect to be paid for my open source contributions
23:32 jberger ^^ what I meant tosay
23:33 * sri understands
23:33 cl Hi, does a tx->kept_alive indicate, that it's the same worker handling my request like before?
23:34 * sri wonders if pragprog would publish a perl book http://pragprog.com/write-for-us
23:34 jberger I was thinking about asking onyxneon too
23:36 sri might be a good idea, if you're not too worried about distribution of the paper edition, with onyxneon you at least get good editing
23:36 * sri likes the open source deals o'reilly sometimes makes too http://guide.couchdb.org/
23:37 sri of course, with a bigger publisher there's translations too
23:38 sri oh, you can read the new edition of mastering perl online http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000001527/index.html
23:39 geck neat
23:43 sri the fact that o'reilly has a whole book about writing for o'reilly bums me out though
23:45 sri jberger: i'm sure you know that already, but chromatic uses pod for the modern perl book
23:46 sri https://github.com/chromatic/modern_perl_book
23:46 jberger yeah, I know
23:47 jberger I can't really see using pod for a book of any real size
23:47 jberger but it probably converts better
23:48 jberger the biggest fear I have for latex is that I don't THINK there is any way to make ebooks from them
23:48 jberger makes beautiful pdf though
23:49 sri i'm sure you'll make it work
23:53 jberger the thing is, I know latex, I don't know podweaver or whatever xml thingy the publishers use, so for now it's this
23:53 ka2u joined #mojo
23:54 rj11 jberger: TMTOWTDI :)
23:54 jberger always :D
23:56 sri seems bigger publishers all have their own custom toolchain
23:57 sri pragprog wants a sample in plain text and gives you their toolchain when they accept the proposal
23:57 sivoais jberger: remember that LaTeXML I linked you to? That does LaTeX to EPub. (side note: they use Mojolicious for their online server :-D )
23:57 geck hrrm
23:57 geck sivoais still lives..
23:58 jberger sivoais, vaguely, do you still have that link?
23:58 sivoais eh, for certain values of $LIFE, I'm still at my lab on a Friday night... :-P

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