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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-02-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sri it's not about making promises "possible", it's about finding out what's "best"
00:03 jberger_ What about delay is not sufficient/best for the mojo core
00:03 jberger_ ?
00:03 sri How is delay better than promises? :)
00:03 jberger_ We have it already and it's been well vetted
00:04 jberger_ Also, I'm guessing it's a lot less code
00:05 sri Mojo::IOLoop->when($ua->aget('mojolicio.us', 'metacpan.org'))->then(sub { say shift->res->dom->at('title')->text })->wait;
00:05 sri example for concurrent requesy oneliner with promises
00:05 sri *request
00:05 sri oops
00:05 sri i accidentally an aget
00:06 sri Mojo::IOLoop->when($ua->aget('mojolicio.us'), $ua->aget('metacpan.org'))->then(sub { say shift->res->dom->at('title')->text })->wait;
00:06 sri that's better ;p
00:06 sri but that's still not right...
00:06 sri argh!
00:06 sri Mojo::IOLoop->when($ua->aget('mojolicio.us'), $ua->aget('metacpan.org'))->then(sub { say shift->res->dom->at('title')->text while @_ })->wait;
00:07 sri now!!!!
00:07 jberger_ Put the delay in the topic variable and I bet it could be pretty one liner too
00:07 jberger_ ;-)
00:07 jberger_ TOPIC ALL THE THINGS
00:08 sri the point is, this oneliner is not artifically shortened, that's serious promise code
00:08 jberger_ Could you not do the same thing with delay?
00:10 sri not quite... http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Concurrent_blocking_requests
00:14 sri Mojo::IOLoop->delay(sub { $ua->get('mojolicio.us' => $_[0]->begin); $ua->get('metacpan.org' => $_[0]->begin) }, sub { shift; say shift->res->dom->at('title')->text while @_ })->wait
00:14 sri the point is, promises when baked in can be really nice
00:15 sri when bolted on with a module like Promises... they suck
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00:19 firnsy fwiw, promises are quickly becoming a defacto standard for managing async callback behaviours
00:20 firnsy ... it would provide people familiar with those patterns from experimenting with mojo
00:21 firnsy s/from/an avenue to begin/
00:21 * firnsy notes that doing what everyone else is doing is not technical endorsement
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00:43 sri firnsy: i wouldn't go that far
00:44 firnsy sri: calling them a standard?
00:45 firnsy ... if so i agree they'll never become a standard, but if they're perceived as a standard by the node.js / web frontend community then that is no different
00:45 sri node.js doesn't have it in core, async.js is bigger than any promises implementation... browser apis are still mostly continuation passing style... python and ruby mostly use coroutines now
00:45 sri pretty much all jquery code i come across is still continuation passing style
00:46 sri as a matter of fact... i've seen more node.js code use coroutines than promises ;p
00:46 sri but i'm following the development of koa
00:48 sri you know... this stuff https://github.com/visionmedia/co
00:49 firnsy co does look awesome
00:49 sri if we had the choice... i would go that route in a heartbeat
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00:52 firnsy my window into promises is largely from angular.js where it seems to be leveraged considerably in remote calls
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01:17 firnsy http://tinypic.com/r/23uq1ao/8
01:17 firnsy ughh ... wrong chan, sorry guys
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01:50 bpmedley liveperl.us now supports "pearls" - the ability to run perl code and save the code and output for later.  For example, http://pearls.liveperl.us/pearls/clam/1393378841870.
01:55 sri bpmedley: awesome!
01:55 bpmedley Thanks.  I hope to be able to add CPAN modules for the pearls.  Any other feature requests/bug fixes are most welcome.
01:56 sri bpmedley: a pearls index ;)
01:57 bpmedley sri: Showcase other people's code?
01:57 sri yea
01:57 bpmedley Ok; we'll need public vs private pearls; however, that should be doable.
01:58 sri i didn't get the save button
01:59 sri figured it did what clam does
02:00 bpmedley Aha.  Hrmm.   I wonder if we need the save button.
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02:18 pracli hi.
02:19 pracli why doesn't app->mode("whatever") reopen the logs?
02:22 pracli my program starts in production mode, then I set app->mode("development"); then app->log->fatal("mode: ". app->mode); and I see "mode: development" in the production.log, instead of in the development.log!
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02:51 jberger__ Yay, I'm essentially feature-complete (for this phase at least)
02:51 jberger__ I get my life back!
02:51 jberger__ \o/
03:22 sri hmm... i suppose $promise->resolver is kinda unnecessary if it was overloading &{}
03:23 sri $ua->get('mojolicio.us' => my $promise = Mojo::IOLoop->promise);
03:23 sri still ugly though
03:24 sri only way to make it work is new promise generating methods everywhere
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03:38 punter how about my $promise = $ua->get('mojolicio.us', #something#);
03:39 punter where #something# = "promise => 1"
03:40 sri it would have to be a convention that works across dozens of modules
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04:40 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Hd4cOg
04:40 good_news_everyone mojo/master 245b93c Sebastian Riedel: added next_tick method to Mojo::IOLoop and Mojo::Reactor
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04:44 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xJ2WIQ
04:44 good_news_everyone mojo/master da4b800 Sebastian Riedel: fixed timer documentation
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04:44 sri i feel comfortable adding the method since it's accurate in EV too now
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04:59 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ycWkTg
04:59 good_news_everyone mojo/master b3ddfb5 Sebastian Riedel: test next_tick return value
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05:21 sri jberger: actually i think Net::EmptyPort might be a bad idea
05:21 sri just was you recommending it
05:22 sri *saw
05:22 sri look at that monster! http://api.metacpan.org/source/TOKUHIROM/Test-TCP-2.02/lib/Net/EmptyPort.pm
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05:23 sri this should be more correct https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/IOLoop/Server.pm#L43
05:25 sri i remember mojolicious starting out with horrible hardcoded port ranges like that too... and it caused nothing but trouble
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05:28 jberger_ Perhaps i shouldn't have commented
05:28 jberger_ As it happened I had just seen it reading the other poster's code
05:32 jberger_ Comment added
05:33 jberger_ Actually I think Rob Hoelz made a similar suggestion
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07:02 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/UYpsjw
07:02 good_news_everyone mojo/master 544807f Sebastian Riedel: added host_port method to Mojo::URL
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07:09 sri i'll be damned
07:09 sri github is working on an editor :O
07:09 sri https://github.com/atom/release-notes
07:10 sri and that thing looks sleek!
07:11 sri https://f.cloud.github.com/assets/2988/1796891/85e69ff2-6a93-11e3-89ac-31927f604592.gif
07:11 sri DO WANT!
07:14 marcus panes and stuff
07:18 sri it even knows perl ;p https://github.com/atom/language-perl
07:19 marcus Do you have it up and running yet, sri?
07:20 sri i suspect the main editor is still hidden
07:20 marcus ah, yea
07:20 sri this was an accidental leak :)
07:20 marcus It has a ton of repos tho
07:21 marcus 7 pages worth?
07:21 sri and all atom packages
07:21 sri all coffeescript and web stuff
07:22 * marcus is pumped
07:22 sri so prolly a desktop/web hybrid editor
07:22 sri i bet they want to IDEify github
07:22 marcus Yeah
07:22 marcus https://gist.github.com/elcuervo/eb68883f233baf5a46c8
07:23 sri very very smart move, github is the company that can pull it off
07:23 marcus And a vim mode.
07:23 sri i am so ready for this
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08:05 marcus liveperl.us is way cool. Guess it's firewalled from the inside ? (tried a g(..) got connection refused) :)
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08:29 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/m9wewg
08:29 good_news_everyone mojo/master a79c9e1 Sebastian Riedel: added path_query method and fixed a few request generation bugs
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08:30 sri marcus: awww... i was planning to mine dogecoin from there!
08:30 Adura You still can, just use your client connection to relay the blocks.
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08:42 sri so i guess no promises in mojolicious
08:43 marcus I guess if someone wants it they can implement it on cpan?
08:43 Adura As long as it isn't broken.
08:44 marcus Or use the bolted on promises from Stevan
08:44 sri sure, bolted on just sucks
08:44 sri cpan solution would have to monkey patch everything
08:45 sri Mojo::UserAgent::aget and so on
08:45 marcus sri: at least you provide a wrench :)
08:45 marcus (monkey_patch)
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08:51 sri prömisës by ikea
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08:56 nicomen so, we use TT here, and I want to spread -Mojo love around, but it confuses our devs when I show examples with EP in ->render() calls, how would you recommend to make a ojo::TT that loads a plugin up front?
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09:10 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/jSdMaA
09:10 good_news_everyone mojo/master d196623 Sebastian Riedel: reuse user agent from application for one-liners
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13:02 jberger_ nicomen: import ojo into the caller (use import::into if needed) then use the caller's app function to load the plugin
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13:17 crab i don't really understand what local::lib is for.
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13:19 moritz crab: installing modules to a different location than normal
13:19 nic_ i used to find it useful to add things to my path shortterm
13:19 nic_ eg to try out mojo, I could install it into /tmp/mojo and run from there
13:20 moritz these days I mostly just use perlbrew, and install everything that I want
13:20 nic_ but these days I would just set PERL5LIB to be /tmp/mojo/lib and exec things in /tmp/mojo/bin manually
13:20 moritz and set up a new perlbrewed perl version every few months or so
13:20 nic_ I use per-project dirs, and install the abs min globally
13:21 nic_ I'm trying to remember if local::lib adjusts your PATH for you
13:21 nic_ If so, that's the only convenience I'd get from it
13:22 nic_ cpanminus has a related deficiency...
13:22 nic_ If you 'cpanm -l /tmp/xx' it ignores what's already in /tmp/xx/lib
13:22 nic_ hence needing to add /tmp/xx/lib to PERL5LIB beforehand
13:31 crab moritz: how do you reinstall modules that you used with perl-$n for perl-$n+1?
13:31 moritz crab: with cpanm :-)
13:32 moritz crab: basically I start with a blank slate, and install modules only when they are missing
13:35 mil https://github.com/tokuhirom/plenv lets you migrate all modules from one perl version to another
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13:42 * moritz explicitly wants to start from a clean slate
13:42 moritz otherwise I won't get rid of the modules I don't use :-)
13:43 Adura Save those KB.
13:43 crab why is local::lib different/better than just use lib 'blah'?
13:43 moritz Adura: it's not just that, but also a matter of making it much easier to forget to declare dependencies on some modules
13:44 Adura Eh, yeah.
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14:23 jberger__ atom looks cool
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14:35 bpmedley marcus: Thanks.  Right now there are no outbound connections, although I do hope to change that.
14:37 jberger_ bpmedley: if you do you need tip prevent people setting up spam servers
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14:37 bpmedley Yes, there are a number of concerns there.
14:38 bpmedley If I could only allow http, then that would be cool.  I want to have tutorials where the user utilizes Mojo::UserAgent.
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14:59 nic_ I use 'grep head2 lib/x86_64-linux/perllocal.pod' to extract what's installed at a particular location
14:59 nic_ (there's a tool that does that more conveniently, but can't remember which)
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15:07 nic_ crab: http://perladvent.org/2011/2011-12-01.html#How-does-it-work-
15:09 nic_ "perl -Ixx/lib" only does part of the job; it doesn't help with installing stuff into xx and putting xx/bin in your exec path
15:09 nic_ I believe 'cpanm -l' uses local::lib under the hood
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15:22 Coke Anyone interesting in getting Mojolicious working on Perl 6? (I want it so I can run perl apps on the JVM)
15:22 Coke *interested
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15:24 Coke I'm going to get started on this in the  next week or so, just wanted to find out if I'm the only one who wants to run perl web apps on the JVM.
15:26 * moritz is interested, but doesn't know how much time he can give it
15:27 Coke occasional eyeballs are fine.
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15:57 nic_ http://zachholman.com/posts/only-90s-developers/
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16:21 tianon "To this day it is the only way to vertically center elements." hahaha
16:21 tianon thanks for sharing nic_ :)
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16:58 Coke nic++
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17:10 sri Coke++
17:11 Coke oh, you're THAT sri++. :)
17:11 Coke ~~
17:13 sri feel free to poke me if you have any questions
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17:13 Coke Do you think being able to run mojo (6) apps in a j2ee container would help adoption?
17:13 Coke you know, aside from the 6 part?
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17:14 ashleydev are you going to be using p5 syntax in 6 on jvm?
17:14 Coke (though I suppose having the v5 stuff working would help)
17:14 sri hard to say
17:14 Coke ashleydev: nope. But you could (in the future) write blocks with {use v5; <5ish code>}
17:15 ashleydev I just thought it may be easier to port since there is some semblance of a p5 parser in p6 land
17:15 ashleydev and since your stated goal was to run mojo on the JVM not to have it in p6 syntax
17:16 Coke I'm aiming for a port to six, rather than running it using "v5";
17:16 sri a full port of mojolicious to perl6 would be pretty damn powerful, it's impossible to say what that could unleash
17:16 ashleydev Coke is the new DHH of p6
17:16 Coke well, one module at a time. I can probably do mojo::util in my spare time fairly soon. :)
17:16 ashleydev p6 on rails
17:16 Coke my real goal is to be able to not use ColdFusion at work. ;)
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17:17 ashleydev .oO(p6 on rainbows)
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17:18 ashleydev i wonder if you'll decide that you want a different api for mojo since there will be better concurency support in p6 than p5
17:18 ua CF, there's a blast from the past.
17:19 ua sri: that could be just the thing p6 needs to get going.
17:19 ashleydev agreed
17:19 ashleydev + a postgres connector
17:19 Coke Glad to hear that, thanks.
17:19 ashleydev (or mongodb for the kids)
17:19 sri well, he can't have hypnotoad on the jvm, so there needs to be changes to the design
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17:20 sri ashleydev: should be trivial to port https://github.com/kraih/mango
17:22 sri i'm actually interested to see if Coke will use promises and supplies for porting the evented bits :)
17:23 Coke sri: Certainly hope to use the new concurrency stuff jnthn++ has on the JVM for that, aye.
17:24 sri i'm still trying to wrap my mind around all the new possibilities
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17:27 sri promises/supplies, coroutines, real threads, simpler closures
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17:42 sri https://www.gittip.com/for/ # wow, perl is only 1 away from beating jquery
17:45 Coke oooh, we made it to the front.
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17:54 btyler well, guess this is a good time for me to join gittip...tied it up :)
17:55 Coke btyler++
17:56 tianon I love that Ruby and Ruby on Rails are separate communities
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18:06 Coke is there a way to see all gittip members in perl group?
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18:21 nic_ you can see the top givers & receivers, but I guess that's not what you mean
18:22 nic_ I'm looking forward to the day gittip let's you give one-of amounts from paypal
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19:39 bc547 are there a noticable performance differences between mojolicious with perl 5.16 and a default rhel6 perl 5.10.1?
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20:03 Coke yah, I'm not looking forward to answering that question for perl6. ;)
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20:12 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/msIvXg
20:12 good_news_everyone mojo/master c0b0587 Sebastian Riedel: added is_handshake method to Mojo::Message::Request
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20:26 sri bc547: i've just compared a fresh 5.10.1 to 5.19.1 with examples/fast.pl and examples/hello.pl, the results were 2664 rps vs 2839 rps and 1686 rps vs 1821 rps
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20:27 sri so i think we can conclude that yes, perl did get measurably faster since 5.10.1
20:27 sri although, this is more important http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/FAQ#Which_versions_of_Perl_are_supported_by_Mojolicious
20:28 sri oops, s/5.19.1/5.19.9/
20:31 sri did i mention how much i love 5.19.9? :)
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20:49 sri somehow i can't let go of the promises topic... i feel like i'm missing something :S
20:50 moritz you... made a promise? :-)
20:52 * sri promises a future
20:52 sri with supplies
20:54 sri to the channel
20:54 sri but it's hanging by a thread
20:57 tianon I hear betting on futures is risky :)
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21:01 sri that's why i bet on many futures concurrently
21:06 Fatalnix I'm having issues trying to figure out how to use Mojolicious::Static using Mojolicious::Lite. I am trying out a template and need to serve up a directory for the css files- am I using the right module?
21:06 moritz Fatalnix: simply put the css file in the public/ directory
21:07 moritz Fatalnix: and everything will be done for you automatically
21:07 moritz (the public/ doesn't appear in the URL)
21:07 Fatalnix oh!
21:08 * sahadev hopes sri's promise of a future comes without much delay
21:09 moritz Fatalnix: http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lltzgnHi5F1qzib3wo1_400.jpg :-)
21:10 Fatalnix hahahahaha
21:10 purl LOLCON 5 reached.
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21:13 Fatalnix Thanks moritz :)- I wonder how I missed that feature.
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21:21 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Lite#Static_files
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21:49 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/a9arIQ
21:49 good_news_everyone mojo/master ff1cb9f Sebastian Riedel: simplify Mojo::Base tests
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22:00 sri http://atom.io/ # IT'S ALIVE!
22:02 sri damn, i just saw their follower count on twitter jump by 1000... there seems to be quite some interest :o
22:05 marty that looks nice
22:06 * marty signed up for beta access
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22:08 tianon Twitter sent me a push notification to tell me that several of the people I follow are following it now lol
22:15 sri lots of coffee script hate in my twitter stream... that might turn out to be a problem
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22:29 cfedde seems that we are on a hate jag in the blog-o-sphere this week.
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22:47 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v4.85 at ff70b4b: http://git.io/ZC03aQ
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22:49 cpan_mojo Mojolicious 4.85 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-4.85
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22:58 czinczar ok
22:58 cfedde I've been using mojo mount to host a bunch of tiny apps under a single hypnotoad deployment.  It works great when using it directly on some port number but I've stumbled when trying to use it behind a proxy.  links in the generated html are missing the mountpoint component.  what am I doing wrong?
22:58 czinczar can a dumb sysadmin, learn perl well, then make a for profit website using mojo?
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22:59 cfedde czinczar: are you looking for permission?
22:59 czinczar maybe and encouragemnt
22:59 cfedde you have both from me.  for what it is worth.
22:59 czinczar im sik with virus last 4 days, and had deluiosn of leanring lisp for web
22:59 cfedde that can work too.
22:59 czinczar liek i can beat eveyrone usign the l33t lisp0r tek
23:00 cfedde I'd say go for it!
23:00 cfedde but discussion of lisp web frameworks is off topic here.
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23:00 bobkare http://xkcd.com/224/ :-)
23:01 czinczar so basically I would probly use freebsd 10 amd64 perl and maybe postgresql
23:01 czinczar and the toad
23:01 purl the toad is useless really or not completely useless or at http://www.quest.com/toad/
23:02 czinczar does mojo actually write your postgresql schema ? or no
23:02 cfedde czinczar: no.  mojolicious is not an ORM.
23:03 czinczar I heard it uses dbixclass so ok, then to write teh app you msut do sql engineering too
23:03 czinczar n stuff
23:03 bobkare mojo doesn't use any database library, you can use whatever you want
23:03 cfedde even if you use an ORM you probably will be better off if you understand your database.
23:03 czinczar k
23:03 czinczar even dbd::deep?
23:03 czinczar :)
23:04 cfedde exactly.
23:04 czinczar I wish perl has a port of www.prevayerl.org to replace sql persistance
23:05 cfedde that fqdn does not seem to be a web link.
23:05 cfedde if you don't like sql then use something else.
23:05 cfedde we won't get mad.
23:06 czinczar www.prevayler.org
23:06 czinczar sorry
23:06 czinczar basically acid persistance from in memory data and update log to disk
23:06 czinczar with whole image dump from time to time
23:06 czinczar 100s 1000s lookups /s
23:07 czinczar to me furure of db
23:07 czinczar but i digress
23:08 cfedde for most modern data persistance systems the bottlneck is the disk layer.
23:09 czinczar yeah
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23:47 jberger_ I've finally been tickering with Mandel and I'm like it a LOT
23:47 jberger_ Nonblocking odm for mongodb
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23:56 czinczar ?
23:56 czinczar mandel eh
23:56 czinczar what is it?
23:56 purl it's it!
23:56 czinczar oh no not mgogodb
23:56 czinczar mongo is awful
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23:56 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Df8ssg
23:56 good_news_everyone mojo/master c464b4e Sebastian Riedel: a few more path_query tests
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