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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-03-11

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00:43 eyelluas hi there, quick question
00:43 eyelluas I installed mojolicious on osx, but don't seem to have the command line tools mojo and morbo installed. Do I have to do something special for those?
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00:49 marty eyelluas:  everything should be there if you installed by following these instructions.     http://www.mojolicio.us
00:49 eyelluas yeah I followed the instructions
00:50 eyelluas so looks like it installed morbo into /opt/local/libexec/perl5.12/sitebin
00:50 eyelluas is that weird or normal?
00:51 eyelluas I can add that to my path, not sure if the install was supposed to do that, or create symlinks in /usr/local/bin or something similar
00:51 marty are you using the system perl or a locally installed perl via perlbrew?
00:52 eyelluas I think I installed 5.12 directly
00:53 BinGOs that's a macports perl.
00:53 eyelluas aha
00:53 eyelluas so looks like it's a path issue
00:53 BinGOs # perl -V:sitebin
00:53 BinGOs sitebin='/opt/local/libexec/perl5.12/sitebin';
00:54 eyelluas yup
00:54 eyelluas that's the one
00:54 eyelluas I wonder why the mojo installer didn't pick it up
00:55 eyelluas running perl from anywhere else, including root, still uses the same 5.12 version in the /opt path
00:56 marty A common environment is a recent perl installed locally via perlbrew.   perl 5.16+ is recommended.
00:56 BinGOs usually sitebin will be the same as bin. but the macports maintainers have deliberately configured sitebin to be something else
00:56 eyelluas so should I just add the path to my PATH or should I install perlbrew instead?
00:59 marty whatever you are comfortable with.   but my guess is that perlbrew is the most common configuration for development.  (just a guess based on IRC chat)
01:00 eyelluas ah, ok I'll set that up
01:00 eyelluas thanks for the help guys!
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10:06 nicomen if I want a route to match '/foo.*' how would I define the route? using /foo(*) or bridge('/foo')->route('*') doesn't work for GET /foo ...
10:10 crab do you want to match /foobar or /foo/bar?
10:10 nicomen anything really
10:10 nicomen that starts with /foo
10:10 nicomen slash or no slash
10:10 nicomen or just /foo
10:14 crab you need one for /foo and one like /foo(*any)
10:15 nicomen annoying :-/
10:15 sri ->any('/foo(*whatever)' => {whatever => ''})
10:16 crab oh, i see.
10:25 pernicious Debugging an app, a dump revealed what I needed inside $self->log->{history}
10:25 pernicious sri++  # too much goodness
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12:16 marty sri++ for atom-perltidy
12:17 marty I'm still undecided on whether or not to switch to atom.io from textmate
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13:06 nicomen sri: it's not very intuitive that you _need_ to have the "whatever" attribute set to '', I think I've run into this issue before. Is there somewhere in the docs this is explained, so I can remember till next time?
13:06 nicomen sri: thanks though ;)
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13:28 jberger_ nicomen: it's just a placeholder with a default value
13:32 nicomen jberger_: yes, but ->any('/foo(*whatever)') does not work...
13:33 jberger_ That's by design
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13:40 * sri has switched to atom completely now, love that this stuff can just be hacked in with an extension https://github.com/saschagehlich/autocomplete-plus
13:41 sri i do miss the rubberband scrolling from textmate sometimes, but that's about it
13:42 sri i have two invites again if anyone still needs one
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14:07 marty Thanks for the link to autocomplete-plus, sri.
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14:08 marty I really do enjoy split screen editing with atom.   I missed that when using textmate.
14:08 * sri agrees
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14:14 nicomen wow, I really didn't know that <div /> is treated as an opening tag in HTML5, wonder if that is solely because of broken MSIE parsing or what
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14:18 sri wonder what to make of these job trends for dynamic languages http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=perl%2C+python%2C+ruby%2C+javascript&amp;l=
14:20 neilhwatson I view that is questionable data.  A job posting seldom resembles the actual work going on.
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14:26 jberger_ I will want one as soon as it works on Linux
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14:27 jberger_ That data is suspect, I find it hard to believe that JavaScript is seeing that decline, even in job postings
14:27 btyler need to remember that indeed skews towards larger company postings. very few jobs you'd see posted on (for example) hacker news will turn up there
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14:28 sri perl would have peaked in 2010 judging by that data, i find it rather confusing
14:28 btyler still, indeed as a general source isn't bad. they have radically higher traffic than all of the other major job boards (both applicants and posts)
14:29 btyler (my $work is a job feed source for indeed, among other things)
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14:35 nicomen and it seems it's Mojo::DOM that closes it :-/
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14:52 sri nicomen: it helps to link to specs if you want to be taken serious
15:06 nicomen sorry, I was busy investigating, apparently I wasn't aware of which semantics were in effect. Spec point 6: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/syntax.html#syntax-start-tag
15:06 nicomen I am not saying anything is wrong anywhere, just surprised HTML5 spec took that course
15:12 genio "has no effect on void elements"  div isn't listed as a void element.
15:12 nicomen right ;)
15:12 genio but then they say on "foreign elements it marks the start tag as a closing tag"  they fail to mention the other types of tags.  why even list the bit about void elements?
15:13 nicomen just that it is valid, but have no effect I guess.. but yeah it's a bit strangely worded
15:13 genio poor wording/writing leads to confusion
15:14 sri we don't respect the w3c spec, just whatwg
15:14 sri and you should have more luck in the tree building section
15:15 nicomen exact same wording in whatwg spec btw
15:15 sri i'm not saying you are wrong, just that you need to qualify such statements
15:16 sri http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#acknowledge-self-closing-flag
15:16 sri http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#parsing-main-inhead
15:16 sri acknowledgement appears to be based on tag names
15:16 sri which correspond to void elements
15:17 sri so the self-closing flag is ignored for most tags
15:17 nicomen sri: actually I'm not sure what we are discussing, I'm 1) surprised HTML5 ignores self-closing slashes and breaks pages, and 2) I was appending HTML content to an XML document but didn't know they had automatically got different semantics, fixed now in my code
15:21 sri actually, more tags have the acknowledge self closing flag step
15:23 sri svg has the step Oo
15:23 sri frame too
15:25 sri oh wait... hahaha
15:25 sri the "any other tag" step also acknowledges the self closing flag
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15:25 sri nicomen: yea, i have no fricking idea what you were talking about
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15:26 nicomen ;)
15:26 genio So, WHATWG is a living version of the spec that should always be more up-to-date, and the W3C version is a snapshot, numbered version of the spec?  Sorry, I never took the time to understand the difference between the two until now
15:27 sri w3c is the devil
15:27 genio Other than that, am I fairly correct in my understanding?   I won't pretend to understand why it's the devil.  I'll just take your word for it.
15:27 sri they have lost my respect, so whenever there is a competing standard i will pick that one over w3c https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/10/lowering-your-standards
15:28 nicomen whatwg also refused to standardize on an open video format, so I guess I have issues with all of them
15:29 nicomen <video> just became a new <object>/<embed>
15:29 sri you're just misunderstanding whatwg
15:29 sri whatwg puts in the spec what browsers actually support, they don't try to dictate
15:30 nicomen I understand that hixie works in google
15:30 sri doesn't matter
15:31 nicomen but, I think it's dangerous to have a standard that only documents what people do, but I know it's a fine line between suggesting and getting people to agree, and to enforcing and getting people to ignore you
15:31 nicomen oh well
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15:36 genio sri: ah.  After reading that (assuming it's all true) I agree that the W3C is now the devil
15:45 sri if tim berners lee wins we'll soon have encrypted html/css/javascript you can't look at anymore
15:46 sri with platform specific decryption blackboxes... what't not to like?!!!!
15:46 genio Simple solution... stabbity death upon him!   That's always my solution, though
15:47 neilhwatson To get a seat at w3c's table requires a lot of money. Is it a wonder that decisions favour corporations?
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16:57 malikai i would totally support an open encrypted html/css/js/json standard
16:59 jkg has TBL been replaced by a pod person? that seems pretty contrary to what I've (some time ago, admittedly) seen/heard him saying about the web.
17:02 sri it is a bit weird that "<div /><div></div>" is supposed to result in "<div><div>test</div></div>"
17:02 crab where'd the test come from?
17:03 sri oops
17:03 sri "<div /><div>test</div>" in "<div><div>test</div></div>"
17:03 crab that is weir
17:03 crab d
17:03 sri there is a bunch of tags in the spec that can't self-close
17:04 sri which are specifically excluded
17:05 sri only way to support it would be another hardcoded list with those tags
17:05 genio eww
17:05 crab malikai: why?
17:06 sri and it seems to be a pretty dynamic list... basically all tags that have special semantics attached... such as those that break paragraphs :S
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17:34 sri http://pastie.org/8908167 # the list... no idea if it's complete... making it is really a PITA, since only the actual tree building algorithm seems to touch the subject
17:35 sri i'm tempted to say it's out of scope for Mojo::DOM and just ignore it
17:35 sri surprised how many tags are not supposed to self-close though
17:35 malikai it seems like it would be a nice way to secure past the ssl terminator.. not something i'd use for everything, but would be nice for some important stuff
17:36 malikai if it's a standard, people wouldn't have to make adhoc solutions to deal with that problem
17:37 tianon there have been a _lot_ of times I've wished <div /> was valid syntax in HTML5...
17:37 sri oh it is valid syntax
17:38 tianon (more specifically, that it would DWIM and self-close the div)
17:38 sri just doesn't do what you would expect
17:38 tianon yeah
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17:53 sri http://pastie.org/8908215 # this is what a patch would look like
17:55 sri the only way to get the tag list is to manually go through this http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html
17:56 sri odds are i got some wrong
17:59 sri tempire, jberger, crab, marcus: some support would be appreciated
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18:19 doby sri: read through the doc and compared your list as i found elements, I believe you missed "plaintext", "area", "br", "embed", "img", "keygen", "wbr", "input", "menuitem", "param", "source", "track", "hr", "select"
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18:20 doby sri: also "isindex" has some exceptional cases that may need to be considered
18:20 sri doby: pretty much all of those are self-closing
18:20 sri i did not miss them
18:20 sri plaintext is a huge can of worms we don't support at all
18:20 doby ok fair enough
18:21 sri you have to look through the actual parsing description
18:21 sri when it says acknowledge self-closing flag it does not belong in the list
18:21 doby maybe my high level cheat of relying on the links was too simplistic
18:21 sri yes, that does not work
18:21 doby ahh, i see the difference
18:22 sri i would be surprised if anyone here actually knows what <plaintext> does ;p
18:22 sri hint: it is really really evil
18:23 doby it completely ends all formatting, right
18:23 sri you looked it up ;)
18:24 doby i remember it being like HERE tags in perl
18:24 doby so a brain hook
18:24 doby but i did double check
18:24 doby :)
18:29 sri thanks for double checking though
18:30 sri still nto any closer to answering the question if this should be added to Mojo::DOM::HTML
18:30 doby im always amazed at how you go after things like this
18:30 doby if only i had your singular focus :)
18:31 genio http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/plaintext  eww
18:31 genio so, it's a terrible wanna-be <pre> with handcuffs
18:31 doby and no ending tag
18:32 sri for completeness sake... i guess it should be in the list
18:32 sri in case someone double checks
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18:34 sri i guess support for this might be sensible considering Mojo::DOM's primary mission... testing
18:35 sri you'll catch a <div /> error much earlier with tests
18:35 genio Carp::confess( "You suck at life" ) if lc($tag) eq 'plaintext';    #test case complete
18:36 sri oh... i have a GSOC project... compare the hardcoded tag lists with the spec to make sure everything is up to date :D
18:36 sri we could do that every year
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18:45 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kU5KHg
18:45 good_news_everyone mojo/master 50abf7d Sebastian Riedel: fixed bug in Mojo::DOM::HTML where non-self-closing elements were not handled correctly
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18:46 sri html5 is hard...
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18:50 sri also wonder if just ignoring /> for html would break much
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18:51 sri guess it's mostly about foreign elements... from mathml and svg
18:52 sri better add a test for that
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18:57 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fSO6lg
18:57 good_news_everyone mojo/master 85e8014 Sebastian Riedel: test embedded SVG in HTML
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19:14 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/E4Fk3g
19:14 good_news_everyone mojo/master 6c13b15 Sebastian Riedel: better test for embedded SVG
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20:10 sri the spec is full of gems
20:11 sri "A start tag whose tag name is "image": Change the token's tag name to "img" and reprocess it. (Don't ask.)"
20:18 genio wow
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20:19 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ipTfTg
20:19 good_news_everyone mojo/master 01b7c95 Sebastian Riedel: fixed bug in Mojo::DOM::HTML where <image> was not treated as an alias for <img>
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20:20 sri and i forgot the noembed tag
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20:44 jnbek gotta love the noembeds
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