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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-03-15

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Time Nick Message
00:03 good_news_everyone joined #mojo
00:03 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_mfUOQ
00:03 good_news_everyone mojo/master a22d469 Sebastian Riedel: highlight environment variables
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00:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/qJUeKw
00:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master bb1a807 Sebastian Riedel: highlight request methods
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01:14 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/McdISw
01:14 good_news_everyone mojo/master 37a1b9f Sebastian Riedel: fixed link in documentation
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01:32 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dGsR7A
01:32 good_news_everyone mojo/master bde883e Sebastian Riedel: more documentation tweaks
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08:02 malikai smoking crack is fun, let's make babies
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08:07 marcus crab, jberger : Remember to submit a talk for mojoconf today? ;-)
08:10 malikai where is mojoconf going to be at?
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08:11 marcus malikai: Oslo
08:11 marcus (Everyone else, also remember to submit :p)
08:11 malikai wow.. i hope that's in the summertime!
08:11 marcus malikai: Yes, it's in may. Best time of year.
08:11 marcus <3 Oslo spring
08:12 marcus But actually we don't have any snow here atm either.
08:13 marcus malikai: http://mojoconf.org btw
08:13 batman malikai: http://mojoconf.org
08:13 marcus lål
08:13 batman uhm... can i blame latency? :P
08:14 batman lbcas
08:14 batman latency between between chair and screen
08:17 malikai in a few weeks i could present on using mojo for realtime ddos detection, but i'm not ready now..
08:18 malikai in a year or so i can present on using mojo for a northbound SDN interface
08:18 malikai so maybe next year :)
08:18 batman malikai: wanna come and talk? submit the talk description and be ready for the conf. my talk is not ready now...
08:21 malikai at one of the upcoming LINX's i'll probably do a talk on the ddos stuff.. and will certainly be giving a plug for mojo there
08:22 malikai heh.. 20 euros.. all i got to do is get them to pay for tickets and hotel
08:25 batman :)
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08:52 * sjn just tweeted a reminder to submit mojoconf talks
09:00 marcus malikai: mojo for realtime ddos detection sounds like a great subject
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10:14 sjn ddos detection with mojolicious? o_O
10:25 batman i think even just hearing about the idea would be a cool talk.
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10:38 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yOR6tA
10:38 good_news_everyone mojo/master 395f19d Sebastian Riedel: link to max_message_size attribute
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12:05 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/qY_uVA
12:05 good_news_everyone mojo/master 4637805 Sebastian Riedel: small optimizations
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12:35 jberger_ marcus: oh yeah, thanks for the reminder
12:37 jberger_ ROBOTS AND VIKINGS
12:38 batman jberger_: how do we do one user has many blogs and a blog post has many writers in mandel?
12:38 batman is that even possible..?
12:39 jberger_ Owner and writer are not the same field
12:39 batman but must i do has_many() i both the Person and Blog document?
12:40 jberger_ In that case yes
12:40 batman sounds like a mess :/
12:40 jberger_ You are trying to propose a many to many relationship
12:40 batman i guess i am :)
12:40 jberger_ ?
12:41 batman but i will settle with has_many() in both classes for now...
12:41 jberger_ Does belongs_to_many make any sense?
12:42 batman not sure. what do you think mst?
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12:44 jberger_ https://metacpan.org/pod/DBIx::Class::Relationship#many_to_many
12:44 batman not going to make a link document. it will be super slow in mongo i think
12:45 batman i think maybe belongs_to_many is more clever...
12:45 batman my head starts spinning when thinking about this :(
12:45 batman i don't even understand the relationships i've created now
12:45 batman it's weird how i can sometimes write code that i don't understand
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12:46 batman like the big chunk of sh*t i'm rewriting at work now. no idea how it actually works :)
12:47 jberger_ Hahaha
12:47 jberger_ Hopefully your boss doesn't see that statement:-P
12:49 jberger_ At work I understand the code I write, but I don't yet understand the target industry :-/
12:49 jberger_ Makes it hard
12:49 batman jberger_: he already knows :)
12:50 jberger_ Thus the tongue face :-)
12:50 batman i'm too honest. people might think i'm rude, but i'm just direct and honest :)
12:50 batman haha
12:51 batman btw: i'm the only contributor to that piece of code... not like Mandel. at least i've asked for input about Mandel :)
12:51 batman piece of code => at work
12:51 batman relationships are hard. let's go party ;)
12:53 * jberger_ breaks out the booze
12:53 batman \o/
12:53 batman hehe
12:53 jberger_ Even if it is before 8am in Chicago
12:53 batman oh. my friend came late, but i said he's just in time for beer o'clock.
12:54 batman almost 2pm here
12:54 jberger_ 2pm is most certainly beer o'clock on a Saturday
12:54 jberger_ 8am ...
12:54 batman :)
12:56 batman figured out what you want to talk about on mojoconf?
12:57 batman i submitted a talk about assetpack and related modules.
13:01 batman no idea if i will be accepted though! ;)
13:12 jberger I think so
13:12 jberger code reuse in a non-blocking architecture
13:12 jberger basically writing non-blocking methods
13:13 jberger and lots of MIDelay
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13:17 jberger atom.io is still only Mac ?
13:18 batman looks like it :(
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13:56 batman jberger++
13:57 jberger multi-word tags don't seem to work :-/
13:57 jberger anyway: talk submitted \o/
13:57 jberger (I'm assuming that's what the ++ was for)
13:57 batman multi-word tags?
13:57 batman yes, it was
13:57 jberger best-practices
13:58 jberger became best and practices
13:58 jberger and with non-blocking, I had quite a soup of nonsense tags :-P
13:59 jberger not a problem
14:00 sri but seriously... how cool is the atom color picker? :) https://atom.io/packages/color-picker
14:00 batman ok :/
14:01 batman sri: it's so cool that i was hoping you wouldn't show it anymore to us linux users :(
14:01 sri it works even in perl and mojolicious templates
14:01 batman :)
14:01 batman die ETOOCOOL;
14:05 jberger wow
14:05 * sri has uninstalled TM2 a few days ago and switched completely to atom
14:06 * jberger wants
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14:22 jberger batman: have you made an asset plugin for jquery?
14:24 batman no..?
14:25 batman what would that look like?
14:25 * sri wonders if you could make an asset pipeline plugin that downloads a specific version you defined from the jquery cdn when your assets are compiled
14:26 batman sri: i don't get it. care to explain more?
14:28 sri plugin jQueryAsset' => {version => 2.0}; # downloads jquery-2.0 for you from the cdn and puts it in your asset directory if it's not there already
14:29 sri you never actually ship jquery to cpan, just grab it from the cdn, which tends to have many versions
14:29 batman aha. clever.
14:29 batman I WILL MAKE IT!
14:29 batman :)
14:30 batman i think i will just put it into AssetPack
14:30 jberger batman/sri: I like the idea of using the cdn, but I do a lot of my non-work development on the train, so having local files is useful
14:30 batman jberger: it will download it -unless- you have it
14:30 batman so if you start the app once before you go on the train, it will be cached locally
14:33 jberger batman: oh nm, I didn't see that your Bootstrap3 comes with a jquery!
14:33 jberger cool
14:34 batman :)
14:34 batman ...which you can replace if you like
14:34 jberger cool on all of the above, keep it up!
14:35 sri is the bootstrap3 jquery version locked?
14:35 batman what do you mean?
14:35 sri will you just upgrade it and break apps?
14:35 sri should apps depend on the jquery version
14:36 batman it will work with bootstrap. if your app works with jquery bs3, then you should be fine
14:36 batman i won't randomly bump it to 2.0
14:37 sri depending on an unknown version of jquery seems like a pretty bad idea
14:37 batman but you're also depending on an unknown version of bootstrap.
14:38 sri bootstrap3
14:38 batman right. that's why i said i won't bump jquery to 2.0 either.
14:38 sri is that promise documented? :)
14:39 batman no. but it will break bootstrap as well, so... (at least i think bootstrap support ie9)
14:39 batman *checks*
14:39 sri let me remind you of when people depended on the specific version of jquery that shipped with mojolicious ;p
14:39 batman ie8 actually...
14:40 batman you have already reminded me :)
14:40 sri i'm mostly warning jberger here actually
14:40 batman :)
14:40 sri batman never promised he wouldn't bump the jquery version... sooo ;p
14:41 batman but you can force your own version if you need to using my plugin
14:41 batman plugin Bootstrap3 => { jquery => 0 }
14:42 batman if you need to, using... # missed a comma
14:42 batman sri: i'm thinking this: asset "app.js" => "http://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/es5-shim/2.3.0/es5-sham.min.js"); # shouldn't this just work?
14:43 batman or maybe i need ["local-alias.js", "http://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/es5-shim/2.3.0/es5-sham.min.js"] ?
14:43 jberger sri: I'm not building the next Drupal here, for prototyping, having a lot of assets that come along for free is nice
14:43 jberger but thanks for looking out for me
14:43 jberger :-)
14:44 sri batman: dunno, but i like the look of it :)
14:44 batman i will try it out
14:44 batman just to be clear: i'm not bumping anything asset without a good reason, but Bootstrap3.pm -will- follow the official version
14:44 batman anything = any
14:45 batman sri: i will try it out. it will be blocking $ua request on startup...
14:45 batman what happens if the cdn doesn't have the given version anymore...? not my problem..?
14:46 sri think i would die
14:46 batman die ENOTFUN;
15:03 batman sri: where will i store the file form cdn? /tmp ?
15:03 batman *from
15:03 batman not sure if i like that...
15:04 batman i guess i could also check if $static->paths is writeable...
15:11 jberger batman: File::Temp->newdir
15:15 batman jberger: the reason why i didn't like it was that /tmp is often cleared on reboot
15:15 batman that sucks if you need to reboot on the train :)
15:32 jberger oh good point
15:32 purl nice and sharp
15:32 * jberger kicks purl
15:32 purl NEWSFLASH: LAMER ATTACKS INFOBOT. FILM AT 11
15:32 jberger purl botsnack
15:32 purl :)
15:47 good_news_everyone joined #mojo
15:47 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/zojYvw
15:47 good_news_everyone mojo/master e5eadc2 Sebastian Riedel: documentation tweaks
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16:00 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/commit/0be23ef496430536b2aedd2b008d76e3831817d8 # comments?
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16:08 punter Am I going to be future-safe, if I "delete $self->stash->{'some_key'}; "   ??
16:09 punter ...or if I check: exists $self->stash->{'some_key'} ??
16:09 jberger batman: some reason you are parsing the url yourself, why not use Mojo::URL
16:09 jberger ?
16:10 jberger punter: the stash is necessarily a hashreference if that is what you are asking
16:10 batman jberger: seems complicated when all i need is to check if can fetch it form the interwebs
16:11 punter ...which I'm allowed to edit on my own, if I so wish?
16:11 punter ok
16:11 punter thanks
16:11 jberger punter, that is not an implementation detail, but a documented feature
16:11 punter perfect
16:11 jberger batman: yeah, perhaps
16:11 punter (should have read that)
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16:11 batman jberger: you're suggesting Mojo::URL->new($path)->protocol =~ /^https?/ ...?
16:11 batman protocol => scheme
16:12 jberger haha, I suppose that doesn't look any better
16:12 batman i'll drink to that ;)
16:12 jberger perhaps if there was a ->scheme_is_web
16:13 batman no, no, no... please don't :/
16:13 jberger but if you are going to have to regex anyway
16:15 * jberger hands batman a beer
16:15 batman :)
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16:19 sri this is where smart match would come in handly
16:19 sri s/l//
16:19 sri Mojo::URL->new($whatever)->protocol ~~ []
16:20 sri or rather an adaption of the "in" operator from python
16:20 sri so many times i have use for it
16:21 sri and end up with a shitty if (grep {...} ...)
16:22 batman word.
16:22 batman what about the rest of the patch?
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16:27 batman jberger: http://test.trondtorke.no/ <-- this is how i would build a blog. edit inline. drag/drop images. wysiwyg :)
16:27 batman (click on text to edit)
16:43 jberger I'm not quite sure why, but I'm focusing on a forum app atm
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17:40 punter jberger, I'm making a complicated forum webapp too
17:40 punter jberger, maybe we could join forces or sthn
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18:07 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rtudSw
18:07 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5c597e3 Sebastian Riedel: made links more accessible in documentation browser
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18:09 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Lite#Commands # the little sharp when you hover over a h1/h2/h3 can now be used to link to stuff quickly
18:10 sri hope it looks ok in all browsers, placing it correctly was actually a little tricky
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18:13 sri wait... the word i meant to use was "little hash"
18:15 sri can "sharp" be used interchangeably with "hash" to describe "#"?
18:15 jberger__ And pound
18:15 sri c sharp confused me
18:16 sri and the dictionary i use all the time does not list "sharp"... :S
18:16 jberger_ I would actually look up "pound sign"
18:17 sri http://www.dict.cc/?s=raute # pound is listed
18:17 jberger_ But yea all those things mean the same
18:17 jberger_ Calling that symbol a "sharp" is usually more of a music thing
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18:18 jberger_ punter is your project on github?
18:19 punter no, I don't know if I'll ever open source it
18:19 punter but willing to collaborate nevertheless
18:19 jberger_ Mine is on my github, but admittedly it's more of a toy
18:19 punter It's a forum-hoster site
18:19 punter oh ok
18:20 punter I have great ambitions for mine
18:20 jberger_ Mine is to let me investigate complex Nonblocking behaviors
18:21 punter I work with websockets a lot
18:21 jberger_ If the project ends up doing something that will be a bonus
18:21 punter in mine
18:21 jberger_ punter++
18:21 jberger_ <3 websockets
18:21 punter 1) user-2-user chat using KJabberd (that's on github already), that looks like facebook's chat
18:21 punter I have that working
18:22 jberger_ Cool
18:22 jberger_ Link?
18:22 punter and I'm working on automatic notifications for friends' activity (like facebook's right hand sidebar)
18:23 punter The site is down. Shall I reboot it for a few hours for you to see?
18:23 punter I'll do it
18:23 jberger_ Not now
18:23 jberger_ I'm just on my phone atm
18:23 punter it's easy
18:23 punter ok
18:23 punter tell me when
18:24 jberger_ I'll be home in a few hours
18:24 punter Just don't borrow every idea you see for your own site, and leave me with nothing :p
18:24 jberger_ Haha
18:25 punter I'm serious
18:25 punter ;
18:25 punter :-)
18:25 jberger_ I'm more of a tool builder than a front facing application guy anyway
18:25 punter ok
18:26 jberger_ I'm much more interested in getting Mandel working
18:26 punter what's that?
18:26 purl rumour has it that is the issue.  I would like to have the catalyst stuff just as adaptors for the plack stuff but there's enough trouble there to not encourage the work to do so :( or fine, although I thought it had some other issue?  Likely correctable
18:26 jberger_ Nonblocking mango odm
18:26 punter odm? or orm?
18:27 jberger_ Basically the same thing
18:27 punter ok I'll look it up
18:27 jberger_ Document vs relational
18:27 punter I'm a mysql fan myself
18:28 jberger_ The biggest problems I had with Galileo were schema related
18:28 punter Even though I'd experiment with nosql, I don't know if I'd rely any project on it. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know
18:28 jberger_ As a scientist I'm not really trained in either so nosql seems a lot more natural to me
18:29 punter jberger_, will you somehow implement transactions in Mandel?
18:29 punter I'd like to "rollback" in the end, if anything goes wrong (or if I raise an exception)
18:29 jberger_ If mango can do it then it shouldn't be hard
18:29 jberger_ But I haven't looked
18:30 jberger_ Mandel is just a layer on top of Mango
18:31 jberger_ https://github.com/jhthorsen/mandel
18:31 punter I starred it
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18:35 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/wAPJFw
18:35 good_news_everyone mojo/master cb517a0 Sebastian Riedel: more unobtrusive links
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18:40 jberger_ It does not appear that mongo can do transactions
18:40 jberger_ :o
18:42 sri but atomic operations
18:42 sri see find_and_modify
18:46 jberger_ sri yes but Mandel has multi document writes
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18:47 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0lMivA
18:47 good_news_everyone mojo/master 2dea0e7 Sebastian Riedel: made hash sign darker again
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18:49 jberger_ In LaTeX # is a literal hash sign and % is a comment
18:50 jberger_ In Perl % declares a hash and # is a comment
18:50 * jberger_ buries head in the mud
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18:59 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Eycuow
18:59 good_news_everyone mojo/master aa01906 Sebastian Riedel: less surface for hover effect
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19:00 jberger_ sri I really like the hiding menu
19:00 * sri too :D
19:02 sri i disliked permanent menu bars for quite some time
19:03 sri hope hiding menu bars will become a trend
19:04 sri only downside is that it's not cheap performance wise, scroll events add up
19:06 sri i would love to do more for navigation too... but am out of ideas
19:07 sri hope the class list will help at least a little http://mojolicio.us/perldoc#REFERENCE
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19:15 jberger_ I really like the class list
19:15 jberger_ Is it generated or does it have to be manually maintained?
19:16 sri manually
19:16 jberger_ I figured, but I thought I would ask
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20:21 * sri is not sure what to make of the github drama
20:31 jberger awe man, I always miss out on the drama
20:31 moritz no worries, it's just drama :-)
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20:41 sri one thing is certain though, you americans seem to have a monopoly on tech drama
20:42 * jberger wants none of it
20:43 jberger tho I suppose we do have a lot of tech and a lot of drama, ergo ....
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20:45 thowe github drama?
20:45 sri http://valleywag.gawker.com/github-engineer-quits-after-alleging-gender-harassment-1544559154
20:46 * sri is not gonna link to hackernews... those people are terrible
20:46 jberger The meta-drama on these things is usually worse than the real stuff
20:49 tempire I'm having trouble seeing the purpose of ::Collection->compact
20:49 thowe I can't figure out when render_later is supposed to be used...
20:49 tempire thowe: when you don't want the automatic rendering to fire
20:50 tempire most of the time, you don't need it
20:50 tempire oooh
20:50 tempire I'm still thinking in terms of the dom
20:51 sri tempire: perl -Mojo -E 'g("mojolicio.us")->dom->find("*")->attr("id")->compact->join("\n")->say'
20:51 thowe yeah...  That's what I have read...  But I don't know when that will happen.  I'm still in a "reading about" phase; I haven't built anything yet.  I'm also trying to figure out Mongo.  It might be too much at one time for me.
20:51 tempire instead of a generic collection
20:52 sri i actually use compact quite a big for oneliner examples
20:52 stephan48 thowe: f.e. if you request a remote api, you know that you eventually get a response so you call render_later beforehand and in your callback you do the actuall render call
20:52 tempire thowe: which you only need if you have a default template that would render
20:52 tempire but if you don't have one, then it doesn't matter
20:53 tempire either way, don't worry about it. when you need it, the name of the method makes the solution apparent.
20:54 thowe well, it isn't used here: http://tempi.re/a-mojolicious-non-blocking-web-service-why-  But it is here: http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger/2013/11/writing-non-blocking-applications-with-mojolicious-part-2.html
20:54 thowe I'm not sure why.  How does the name of the method make it apparent?
20:54 sri when you need it you'll know
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20:56 tempire also, a pusheen cat on the page handles most problems automatically
20:58 tempire sri: do you ever use flatten with the dom?
20:59 sri i do
20:59 * sri searches tweet history for example ;p
21:01 sri perl -Mojo -E'say g("http://www.reddit.com")->dom->find("*")->contents->flatten->grep(sub { $_->node eq "comment" })'
21:02 sri although, that can be shorter with new functionality
21:02 sri a find on the results of a find is the obvious example
21:04 sri perl -Mojo -E'say g("http://www.reddit.com")->dom->find("p")->ancestors("[class]")->flatten->attr("class")->join("\n")->say'
21:04 sri all ancestors of a <p> element that have a class ;p
21:04 sri (or rather a list of those classes)
21:05 sri Mojo::DOM has quite a few methods now that return collections
21:06 sri tempire: what are you doing anyway? :)
21:06 tempire preparing a course.
21:06 sri ah
21:07 sri all methods in Mojo::Collection tend to have a few good use cases for Mojo::DOM
21:08 sri i've rejected too generic stuff before... like ->reduce()
21:09 sri although jberger might still be working on those use cases ;p
21:11 tempire ooh
21:12 tempire the ::collection autoload is pretty cool
21:12 tempire that wasn't there last time I really used it.
21:13 jberger all my use cases are mathy
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21:44 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fQWVPQ
21:44 good_news_everyone mojo/master d0cb3af Sebastian Riedel: documentation tweaks
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21:58 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Irgy4w
21:58 good_news_everyone mojo/master 98e508d Sebastian Riedel: small optimizations
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22:00 sri app->secret is up for removal in a few days... maybe we should extend the deprecation period in this case
22:01 sri time flies... it's already 3 months
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22:28 bbery Curious, once a db connection is properly made and referenced in the main Mojo script would it be available in all sub modules?
22:28 Akron Oh - I must have confused the deadlines for MojoConf. I guess I have mixed the date with the 24th ... :(
22:33 sri it's all good you still got 30 minutes :)
22:39 Akron How long does a proposal needs to be?
22:40 Akron The registration seems to be mandatory to get this information.
22:51 Akron marcus: Will there be a possibility to alter the talk abstract (in case it is accepted) later on? I missed the deadline till half an hour ago - so I won't be able to write something nice.
22:55 jberger Akron if choosing between not submitting and submitting quickly I would choose the latter every time :-)
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22:56 jberger personally I use render_later every time
22:56 bbery Is a conference going on now or is there an announcement somewhere?
22:57 jberger everytime I'm doing Nonblocking that is
22:58 jberger bbery http://www.mojoconf.org/mojo2014/
22:58 Akron jberger: Okay. Done.
22:59 jberger Akron++
22:59 Akron Damn ... just saw that I POSSIBLY have to attend a conference on the 26th in Iceland. Haha. That would be funny. ;)
23:00 jberger you should find a few more and hit all of Scandinavia
23:00 Akron Okay - let's see if I get away with this two sentence abstract and back to preparing my GPW talk.
23:00 bbery Would be great if they did them with a Live Stream so someone that can't make it to Oslo could still see it
23:00 Akron There are more countries?
23:00 jberger (Does Iceland count as Scandinavia? )
23:02 Akron I think as I am not into Heavy Metal, there is nothing to attend in Finland.
23:05 jberger darn, still no cygwin tests for forkcall: http://www.cpantesters.org/distro/M/Mojo-IOLoop-ForkCall.html?grade=1&amp;perlmat=2&amp;patches=2&amp;oncpan=2&amp;distmat=1&amp;perlver=ALL&amp;osname=cygwin&amp;version=0.060_001
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23:50 damaya Hey guys, last night I was reading "C Primer" and I wanted to take some notes, but I could not find anything that would easily let me integrate code into my notes with syntax highlighting, etc...
23:50 * batman will release a new assetpack on Monday
23:50 batman Should probably document the new feature :)
23:51 damaya Anyway, I decided to create my own solution for it, but as that goes, I am now working on a webapp for it to release on github when I am done.
23:51 damaya So, i've been working a bit on it today (http://50.137.153.164:3000/)
23:52 damaya login: test, pass: test123... my question, what do you guys think would be good features for this? I was thinking version control, being able to add external links under folders, a corkboard to manage snippets, and possibly the ability to push to svn, git, etc
23:53 damaya I just started it today, so it's still a work in progress... but at this point I'm just stepping back a bit to try to think of what direction to go with it
23:54 jberger damaya: looks nice
23:54 jberger batman: we might want to have some way to pre-resolve dbrefs
23:55 damaya jberger, thanks :)
23:56 dabudabu Amazing, I have the same combination on my luggage!

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