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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-03-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 jberger I wonder if we ought to put in a different method rather than the list context behavior
00:17 sri problem is that anything we do would be a huge breaking change
00:18 sri i'd love to just remove list context support in 5.0
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00:19 sri (want multiple values? use the lower level param methods!)
00:21 sri although... there's more that would need changing for consistency http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Validator/Validation#param
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00:26 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/55sE0A
00:26 good_news_everyone mojo/master d1b8a79 Sebastian Riedel: better links
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00:27 sri jberger: i'm not gonna fight for it though, if someone else makes a proposal i would vote in favor
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01:12 jberger re using lower level methods: that would be my vote
01:13 jberger also, in the validation doc you linked to, should those really be $c if it is not the controller object?
01:15 jberger anyway, personally, I think I have seen far more incorrect use of list context param than intentional/correct use
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01:46 sri jberger: haha, of course it's a typo
01:48 sri you know you can fix a typo when you see one righ? ;p
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01:55 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/7MLMpg
01:55 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5b5c199 Sebastian Riedel: fixed typo in documentation
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01:55 sri oh well, my ocd wouldn't let me wait
02:01 jberger yeah, I'm not by a computer right now, so thanks
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02:20 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/TcYQLA
02:20 good_news_everyone mojo/master fd84584 Sebastian Riedel: fixed a few more typos
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02:40 damaya sri: I wasn't gonna mention it, but, if you don't like typos, I did notice last night that the mojoconf website says "hackaton" under the logo.
02:40 damaya "Mojolicious training, conference and hackaton."
02:40 Adura It's like a megaton of hacks.
02:41 damaya :)
02:41 damaya I wasn'
02:41 damaya 't even sure it was a typo
02:41 Adura I'm making the best out of the spelling.
02:42 damaya Alright, off to play some pogs with my son :)
02:45 Adura Alf pogs?
02:45 damaya haha, most of them say poison on them, not a single Alf in the thousand or so.
02:45 damaya Found them at a garage sale a few weeks back.
02:45 damaya Quite a few also say, "Jesus Saves."
02:45 Adura Ah, Wal-mart pogs.
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02:58 jberger I would attend a hack-a-ton
02:59 jberger wow, I accomplished almost nothing this weekend
02:59 jberger yay!
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12:55 sri english experts... what's the correct way to write "multi query parameters"? one hyphen? two?
12:57 sri or rather... how would you write this sentence correctly? "Fixed multi query parameter support."
12:58 sri "multi-query parameter" looks wrong to me somehow
13:00 moritz just with spaces, afaict
13:00 moritz no hyphens at all
13:01 sri oh
13:01 Adura multi-query parameter looks fine to me.
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13:02 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NyQtTQ
13:02 good_news_everyone mojo/master 992b18c Sebastian Riedel: do not change history too much
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13:25 sri too bad List::Util::pairs is not available on oder perls :(
13:27 sri *older
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13:44 nicomen List::MoreUtils::natatime or ::parwise ?
13:47 lb ungh, ttrenderer and helpers with begin-end blocks
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14:29 malikai #use strict is like giving alcohol, guns, and cars, all at once, to a bunch of teens..
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14:50 pernicious sri: with the hyphen as you wrote it
14:51 pernicious so as to clarify it's not 'multi (query parameter)'
14:52 nicomen on google "multi query parameter" gives two hits, so maybe if you explain what you mean by multi query parameters there are some better terms ;)
14:52 nicomen ?foo=1&foo=2 ?
14:52 nicomen (php way) ?foo[]=lol&foo[]=lal
14:52 nicomen or something completely different?
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14:53 nicomen maybe rewriting to "query parameter with multiple values" is better?
14:54 nicomen or multi-value query parameter
14:54 pernicious oh, that would be good
14:58 sri i don't want to rewrite history, just fix typos
15:06 sri i changed the whole sentence yesterday... but that went too far
15:08 sri those are Changes entires from 4 years ago... so fixing typos: yes... rephrasing: no
15:09 sri non-native english speakers guessing is really not helpful, i'd like to hear from someone who actually knows what the correct way to write it is
15:09 nicomen well, since multi query parameter doesn't seem to exist according to google, maybe fixing the omitted word that makes it more clear what is meant should be considered fixing a typo ie. "multi-value(d) query parameter"
15:10 sri that's the first sensible suggestion
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15:13 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/poHAiQ
15:13 good_news_everyone mojo/master 73a764a Sebastian Riedel: multi-value is the correct term
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15:13 nicomen Most native english speakers I know wouldn't have a clue about hyphenation rules, and the few that would, would most likely have no idea what a query parameter is :-)
15:13 nicomen http://english.stackexchange.com/ <-- :-)
15:14 sri where is jester when you need him
15:16 * neilhwatson tightly grips his copy of The Elements of Style.
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15:16 sri btw. List::MoreUtils::pairwise is terribly terribly slow
15:16 nicomen I guess natatime with 2 is the same?
15:17 sri closure use alone kills it
15:18 * sri is a little tired of the splice idiom https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Headers.pm#L108
15:19 sri List::Util::pairs is a pretty perfect (and fast!!!) replacement
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15:49 pernicious Is PST currently in DST?  I'm seeing refs saying UTC-8 but currently UTC-7
15:56 neilhwatson http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/pacific-time/
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16:10 meshl Hey, I am integrating Memcached::Client (http://search.cpan.org/~mdorman/Memcached-Client-2.01/lib/Memcached/Client.pm) into my web app. This module uses AnyEvent, and I was wondering whether it would interact in a bad way with Mojo's daemon own event loop.
16:10 meshl Any advice on this?
16:10 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Event_loops
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16:21 meshl What if I want to use Memcached::Client's sync calling? I am concerned 'cause the module states: "All methods are intended to be called in either a synchronous or asynchronous fashion. A method is considered to have been called in a synchronous fashion if it is does not have a callback (or AnyEvent::CondVar) as its last parameter. Because of the way the synchronous mode is implemented, it must
16:21 meshl not be used with programs that will call an event loop on their own (often by calling ->recv on a condvar)---you will likely get an error: AnyEvent::CondVar: recursive blocking wait detected
16:23 meshl @sri: do you mnean that for compatibility I would need to include "use EV; use AnyEvent;" at the top of my app, in order to force Mojolicious to use that reactor?
16:24 sri like it says, you can't use it blocking
16:25 sri it's all pretty clear
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16:33 pernicious damaya: I just tried out your iDevNotes and it swore at me :(
16:34 damaya haha, I throw swear words all over in my code when it is in development
16:34 damaya :)
16:35 damaya Actually, making pretty good progress with it. It started as a notes app for myself to take notes for myself, now I've registered a domain, got quite a few ideas going for it... it's another project!
16:35 pernicious One of our devs had a debug popup saying F..KSOCKS! which accidentally got included in a Live roll
16:35 damaya haha
16:35 pernicious he was escorted from the building
16:36 damaya oh no, that's not good at all
16:36 damaya poor guy... thank goodness most of my code at work stays internal
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17:12 neilhwatson He'll fit in with the Kernel team members.
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20:09 stephan48 should it be possible with hypnotoad to switch the application mode during a zero downtime upgrade?(tests indicate its not the case)
20:18 punter is JSON supposed to be able to store binary data as well?
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20:25 punter (it can't)
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21:46 batman sri: can you compare mojolicious to any other web framework in php, python or ruby?
21:47 batman or anyone else... :)
21:48 sri you can compare parts, but not the framework as a whole, there's quite a few original elements nobody has replicated yet
21:48 batman ok, just got an email i'm trying to answer...
21:49 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/FAQ#How_does_Mojolicious_compare_to_other_Perl_web_frameworks
21:49 sri best i got
21:49 batman ok. thanks
21:49 sri only perl frameworks though
21:50 batman yup
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21:52 sri native intergation of web sockets is something a few other frameworks have attempted since though... goliath and vert.x come to mind
21:54 sri of which i find vert.x much more interesting, i bet there's a few things to steal, they went pretty far with event bus abstraction and stuff
21:54 sri compared to all web framworks out there, i think growing from lite to full app is still the feature that separates us the most, i've not seen that replicated yet
21:55 batman ok. i'm sending my answer now...
21:55 batman thanks for giving me input.
21:56 sri although, i guess one could say silex is to symfony2 what lite is to our full apps http://silex.sensiolabs.org/
21:58 batman :)
21:59 * batman need to get some sleep
21:59 batman work is killing me :P
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22:42 * sri wonders if it would make sense to have a list of talking points for mojoconf we would like to discuss
22:44 sri since i'm sure there'll be a lot of talking, especially during the hackathon day, might be more productive if people can prepare a little
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22:47 MadHatter87 anyone around or just autobots
22:47 MadHatter87 ?
22:48 mst repeating the same line in eight channels is not a good idea.
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22:49 sri beep bop boop
22:51 MadHatter87 meeep
22:51 MadHatter87 meeeeep
22:54 sri anyway... i started a thread https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/t_oSMzS-5v4
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23:07 punter Important question: Is it possible to suddenly block at some point while running in Morbo, and only continue when a condition has been fulfilled?
23:08 punter The reason I'm asking is I want to start a telnet conversation with a server I have, and I want this conversation to block the execution of the route handler
23:09 punter I'll look at how Mojo::UserAgent blocks, thanks
23:12 punter Actually, I have something similar to a memcache server, and I'd like to talk to it, in a blocking manner, with the telnet protocol. Any ideas how I can go ahead?
23:12 punter Not a Mojo question, sorry.
23:12 tempire punter: you probably don't want to block
23:13 tempire you probably want to wait
23:13 tempire two very different things
23:14 punter tempire, this particular Mojolicious website I'm making is blocking.
23:14 tempire nooooooo!
23:15 punter and listen why:
23:15 punter I use MySQL, so I want to execute BEGIN TRANSACTION before the route handler begins, and COMMIT or ROLLBACK afterwards
23:16 punter now if the whole thing's non-blocking, then COMMIT is going to be executed early, don't you think?
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23:16 punter what's your opinion on this?
23:16 punter If I didn't care about transactions, I would have made it non-blocking.
23:18 punter Unless I find a way to find whether there are pending "steps", and defer COMMIT/ROLLBACK until then
23:18 punter Looks like an impossible task, tempire
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23:21 punter it's impossible for other reasons too
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23:53 jberger punter: you could fork_call it
23:56 punter fork_call calls blocking code in a non-blocking way, whereas I want to call in a blocking way. I think I'll use Net::Telnet or IO::Socket in the end.
23:57 jberger in the fork, three call is still blocking
23:57 jberger s/three/the/
23:58 punter Ok. I want the main process to block however.
23:58 jberger why?
23:58 punter Because I need the result before I continue.
23:58 punter Because the route handler mustn't finish.
23:58 jberger that's what a delay is for
23:58 punter the delay won't make the route handler to not finish early
23:59 punter I don't want it to finish early, because if it does, then COMMIT will be sent to the database early.
23:59 punter you hate mysql, if I remember well?

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