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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-05-30

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Time Nick Message
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00:22 Akron \o/ 5.0 sri++ and ++ to all you wonderful people! Let's hope the unicode guys are as great as you and make "edible glitter" a codepoint till next year!
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01:24 sri \o\
01:24 sri /o/
01:24 Adura *fireworks*
01:25 sri DBIx::Class is 18k SLOC, TT2 is 12k SLOC and Moose is 17k SLOC...interesting
01:26 sri Mojolicious has been stable at 9k SLOC for at least two years now i believe
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01:33 sri rails is 174k SLOC
01:33 sri xD
01:34 tempire who's excited for wwdc?
01:35 tempire <- this guy
01:35 sri 161k SLOC for django
01:36 * sri is jealous -.-
01:45 sri no wait, actually i'm not
01:45 * sri would rather go to i/o
01:50 tempire The example flux application from facebook does not run.
01:50 tempire argh.
01:50 tempire I hate javascript.
01:50 tempire No
01:50 tempire I hate the javascript ecosystem
01:50 tempire It feels like a bunch of 18 year old kids jumping around doing random things.
01:51 * tempire is frustrated
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01:56 sri GET OFF MY LAWN
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02:02 tempire SLOC comparison sounds like a tweet
02:22 jberger 5.0!!!!
02:22 jberger \o/
02:23 * jberger heaves a sigh of relief on finishing reading the backlog
02:28 sri 31 retweets already for the 5.0 announcement :o
02:28 jberger marcus: when you get a chance: https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-pg/tree/pool
02:28 jberger sri: you can take a peek too if you want, I've never done a connection pool before and, I'll admit, I'm a little skittish about it
02:29 jberger it feels like there is a real possibility for dead-locking in odd circumstances
02:30 sri do you actually know if a connection gets closed?
02:30 sri or does it reconnect transparently?
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02:32 jberger it would reconnect transparently if I used DBIx::Connector
02:33 jberger which I have considered
02:34 dj_goku__ so I am designing my first REST API. I have resource /foo, /bar, but from a data standpoint /foo has /bars
02:35 dj_goku__ within post /foo route would I just route/make post to /bar passing the data?
02:36 preaction so /foo/<id>/bar gets all the bars associated with foo:<id>, and post /foo/<id>/bar adds new bars to foo:<id>, and get /foo/<id>/bar/<id/index> gets one bar associated with foo:<id>
02:37 preaction that's how i tend to do it, at least. only when the bars are not useful as part of the /foo/<id> document for some reason
02:37 dj_goku__ hmm
02:39 dj_goku__ preaction: interesting. do you ever do this: /foo/<id> that has bars too?
02:39 preaction yes, if the bars are not oppressively large
02:39 dj_goku__ I can see how /foo/<id>/bar is better.
02:39 dj_goku__ hmm
02:40 jberger OPPRESSIVELY LARGE BARS!! LETS GO!
02:40 preaction but if the bars could themselves contain kilobytes or megabytes of information, i tend to leave them out of /foo/<id> and give them their own route underneath
02:40 dj_goku__ because I don't want to mix and match. where sometimes I just return the related structure.
02:40 preaction so like: /blog/2014-01-11-whatever/comments/1/this-is-a-slug-and-has-no-meaning-whatsoever
02:41 dj_goku__ no, not that much, it can be a lot of data, but maybe only few 100 characters per bar.
02:41 preaction then there's probably no point leaving them off, unless there are thousands or millions of bars
02:41 dj_goku__ my guess will be 10-30 bars
02:41 dj_goku__ jberger:++
02:42 dj_goku__ preaction: thanks!
02:43 preaction mostly i just tend to make my documents have one path until there comes a situation where they need more. keeps things simple. YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It)
02:43 preaction the web is a lot faster these days. a POST on a whole document when only a few bytes changed doesn't really cause that big of a problem
02:45 * jberger is trying to decide if he likes https://metacpan.org/pod/Callback::Frame
02:46 preaction it's interesting, i'll give it that
02:47 dj_goku__ preaction: ahh so you would then also do this until you needed it: POST /foo will have /bars
02:47 dj_goku__ and you can still get to /bar/<id>
02:48 jberger sri: so no change to param then?
02:48 preaction if a bar makes sense when not attached to its foo (you said foo has many bars, which leads me to believe that bar belongs to foo), then and only then would i add a /bar route. otherwise, i'd create a query over /foo?bar.whatever=something (to look at the bar's "whatever" field)
02:51 sri jberger: nope, there was not even a candidate
02:51 jberger gotta save something for 6.0 right?
02:51 sri i've removed as many wantarray's as i could, the rest has all the same problems
02:54 sri we do
02:55 sri my wishlist for mojolicious is pretty much empty now
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03:00 * jberger would love to see a core-ized (file-backed) minion
03:00 jberger should have been (file-backed?)
03:01 sri maybe
03:05 crab hi.
03:06 dj_goku__ preaction: well /foo has a foreign key relationship with /bar
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03:07 crab how is "tiger face" named after the location of the first mojoconf?
03:07 preaction right, but is it a one to many relationship? (so bar has a foo_id as a key?)
03:07 dj_goku__ right one to many relationship. yes
03:08 preaction so without a foo, a bar is nothing. so there's no need to have /bar, because every bar must have a foo
03:09 dj_goku__ haha yeah.
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03:11 preaction i guess the important bit is not to consider URLs as a direct interface on to your database, but as a description of the data being accessed
03:11 preaction if I know /foo/<id> gets me a specific foo, I can guess that /foo gets me all foos, for example
03:12 preaction if i know there's a /foo/<id>/bar/<id>, then that bar must be related to the foo
03:12 jberger crab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Oslo's_name#Nickname
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03:13 dj_goku__ preaction: one thing why you might have /bar is for search
03:13 dj_goku__ /bar?q=something
03:13 preaction why can't i search the bars via the foos? /foo?bar.date=something
03:13 dj_goku__ but I guess like y ou said
03:13 dj_goku__ yeah exactly
03:14 preaction if you're using a document store like mongo, you can almost directly map that to a mongo query
03:14 * dj_goku__ is thinking of switching to mongo for that exact reason.
03:14 preaction a SQL db, you've got a slight bit of massaging to do to say "join bar ... where bar.date = something"
03:14 preaction but not much, really
03:14 preaction make that generic "query string to db query" thing, and you get it everywhere
03:15 dj_goku__ the one thing I have been thinking if i used mongo. Is it really safe to just pass the POST/PUT json directly into mongodb?
03:16 preaction i wouldn't, but i don't trust users with anything
03:17 dj_goku__ ahh yeah well I guess validation of id, date, and anything other than strings or a validate list of options.
03:17 dj_goku__ currently I am using sqlite for my db
03:17 preaction i don't think with a mongo query you can do anything destructive like create a second query called "DELETE FROM users", but you could find data you did not want the user to find perhaps
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03:20 dj_goku__ hmm
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05:16 tempire sri: is there a particular reason you used sleep instead of a timer in the minion worker command?
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05:31 batman "rails is 174k SLOC" ??!?!
05:32 preaction is that including activerecord and all their other stuff they bundle with it?
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05:36 crab hi tempire.
05:36 tempire \o
05:36 batman jberger: you should make a pull request - makes it easier to review the "pool" branch online
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05:47 cpan_mojo Mojo-IRC 0.07 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Mojo-IRC-0.07
05:52 cpan_mojo Mojo-Redis 0.9928 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Mojo-Redis-0.9928
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05:55 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-Shotwell 0.05 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Mojolicious-Plugin-Shotwell-0.05
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06:01 cpan_mojo Toadfarm 0.44 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Toadfarm-0.44 (depends on Mojolicious)
06:04 tempire release all the things
06:04 cpan_mojo App-mojopaste 0.0501 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/App-mojopaste-0.0501 (depends on Mojolicious)
06:04 batman :)
06:04 batman nicomen: ^ toadfarm that i told you about
06:08 batman i really want to work on Mojo::SQL ... die ETOOMUCHTODO;
06:08 batman tempire: wanna update the search.cpan.org link on your webpage to metacpan?
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06:11 crab t/prefork.t coredumps for me every once in a while
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06:12 batman hm... looks like metacpan is down :/
06:14 crab better not link to it then
06:16 batman hehe
06:19 crab what's M::P::Shotwell?
06:19 crab (since i can't read what it is at that link)
06:19 batman crab: it's a web gui for http://yorba.org/shotwell/help/
06:20 batman it's a photo manager for linux
06:26 crab ah. nice.
06:26 purl ah. nice. is that considered 'dual sport' ?
06:27 crab yes, it's a dual sport.
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09:25 kvurg hi
09:25 kvurg something for oldsters, badly writtend and off subject:
09:25 kvurg http://slashdot.org/submission/3593809/mojolicious-50-the-very-modern-perl-web-framework
09:25 kvurg congrats on 5.0 :-)
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09:26 moritz filosophy, endcodings
09:26 * moritz weeps
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09:36 kvorg hmm time to submit a better story?
09:37 kvorg and split out all the p5 stuff anyway
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10:51 cpan_mojo Mojar 2.001 by Nic Sandfield - http://metacpan.org/release/NICZERO/Mojar-2.001 (depends on Mojolicious)
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11:18 sri tempire: there is no active event loop in minion, you generally go all blocking in tasks
11:18 sri batman: no need to ->can('generate_port'), Mojo::IOLoop::Server->generate_port existed for a long time
11:18 nic rblackwe: A massive boost to the internet of things would be someone/team rewriting libusb
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11:20 batman sri: oh! didn't know that. i thought you just moved it.
11:20 batman thanks :)
11:23 sri batman: the video is private, i can't view it
11:24 sri oh, share request...
11:24 batman haven't you received a mail from youtube as well?
11:24 sri not yet
11:24 sri too bad about the first 2 minutes
11:24 batman yeah, i feel so stupid :(
11:25 batman do you have a gmail/youtube account? maybe i need to send the share request to something else than @cpan.org
11:26 sri kraihx@gmail.com
11:26 batman share request sent to ^
11:26 riche is there any way to set route->namespaces in Mojolicious::Lite?  I want to run tests for the plugin I'm writing with non-Lite controllers
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11:27 batman riche: app->routes->namespaces
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11:27 riche omg that's what I get for not writing lite apps ... gheesh
11:27 batman :)
11:27 batman sri: let me know if you receive the email from youtube...
11:28 sri batman: looks good otherwise, you have my permission
11:29 batman thanks!
11:29 batman ok if i add the part to the description as i suggested?
11:29 sri yea
11:30 sri batman++
11:30 batman thanks a lot :)
11:30 batman i hate f***** up like that :( there's really no good way to fix it...
11:32 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-HostMeta 0.12 by Nils Diewald - http://metacpan.org/release/AKRON/Mojolicious-Plugin-HostMeta-0.12
11:33 batman sri: it's public. let me know if you want any changes.
11:35 sri batman: *a* technical issue
11:36 sri i like the overlay message
11:36 batman "Because of a technical issue, there's no sound until 2:15" <-- better?
11:36 * sri nods
11:36 sri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OspRE1xnLjE
11:37 batman should i link to the 5.0 release notes in the description box below?
11:38 jberger good morning #mojo!
11:38 sri nope, it's fine now
11:38 sri o/
11:39 batman ok
11:39 jberger batman: a pull request wouldn't help much, meant everything is either changed or moved
11:39 batman oh. ok :)
11:40 jberger s/meant/nearly/ # don't swipe type before coffee
11:40 batman haha
11:41 jberger I still need to watch the video I guess, but I can't imagine why I wouldn't allow it
11:42 batman jberger: just reply to the email or let me know here.
11:42 batman i can pull it back if you decide you don't like it later...
11:42 jberger in that case, go ahead
11:43 jberger Maybe link to the talk app in the description
11:44 batman oh! that's right...i will copy/paste from the description on mojoconf.org to the description on youtube
11:44 batman since that part is already public
11:44 * sri tweets the video link
11:46 riche are you making videos for all the presentations?
11:46 batman riche: most of them
11:46 purl most of them is because of the stupid 01_request failure
11:48 batman jberger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGufeknRHjQ # it's public now :)
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11:48 riche okay that's really nice of you ... let me know if you need my deck
11:49 batman i will just link back to http://www.mojoconf.org/mojo2014/talk/5498 ...
11:49 batman but i can also add link to the deck directly from youtube if you like
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11:50 crab batman: oh, there will be videos? awesome
11:50 batman crab: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgk2wCZr5Rk-cewLTtQA_Fg <--
11:52 batman got six videos waiting for confirmation... uploading more as we speak :)
11:52 nic What a momentous week
11:54 * sri wonders what the first big feature of 5.x will be
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11:57 moritz websocket content negotiation!
11:58 jberger batman++
11:58 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-Log-Timestamp 0.023 by Nic Sandfield - http://metacpan.org/release/NICZERO/Mojolicious-Plugin-Log-Timestamp-0.023
11:58 bc547 sri: are there feature candidates to make it into 5.x?
11:59 sri nope
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12:01 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-Log-Access 0.023 by Nic Sandfield - http://metacpan.org/release/NICZERO/Mojolicious-Plugin-Log-Access-0.023
12:03 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-Number-Commify 0.011 by Nic Sandfield - http://metacpan.org/release/NICZERO/Mojolicious-Plugin-Number-Commify-0.011
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12:12 * Ralesk shudders
12:12 Ralesk so anglocentric, that last one :P
12:14 Ralesk Badass little regex though.
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12:27 ath88 Hi there. I am working on a Mojolicious application where logging specific information is essential. Therefore i would like to test what is logged. Is there any modules dedicated to testing the log output from Mojolicious, or should i merely try to parse the .log-file myself?
12:28 crab you could do $app->log(MyApp::TestLog->new) or some such, so that you get the log messages as arguments
12:28 crab then you don't have to touch the log file.
12:29 crab where MyApp::TestLog derives from Mojo::Log and has a "what_did_i_just_log" method or some such.
12:30 ath88 That was also a solution i had considered. Maybe i hoped someone had created such testlog module already.
12:30 crab it should be only a few lines of code. roll your own.
12:30 crab (no, i don't know of one)
12:31 ath88 I will, thanks for the help. :)
12:32 sri all you need is http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Log#message
12:32 crab you don't even need that, actually. just $app->log->unsubscribe('message') and $app->log->on(message => sub { shift;shift; push @global_log_lines, @_ }) or so.
12:32 crab yeah, what sri said.
12:32 riche strange I got notification for video, but post can't be viewed .. maybe still generating
12:32 sri example for how we test log messages in core https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/t/mojolicious/lite_app.t#L24
12:33 batman riche: try again now
12:34 ath88 Oh, that's cool! Guess i should have read the docs even closer. :)
12:34 riche not working ... well, our biz uses google business, and it could be trying to view it under that sec context
12:36 batman riche: got another youtube/google email?
12:36 riche batman: msg'd you my work address
12:36 batman riche: cool! just sent you another share request.
12:36 batman let me know if it works
12:37 riche yeps good to go now
12:37 batman sweet! let me know if/when i can make it public
12:37 riche nods
12:38 batman nods = "message received" or "make it public" ..?
12:43 batman riche: i hope i can make your talk public. i thought it was very interesting!
12:47 batman cosimo: do you have a title for your mojo lightning talk?
12:47 riche listening to it now
12:47 batman riche: cool :)
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12:48 nicomen pythonistas, damn liars! ;-D
12:48 nicomen "I just wanted a t-shirt"
12:48 nicomen :-P
12:48 batman hehe
12:49 nicomen that commify-er plugin up there..
12:49 nicomen seriously?
12:49 purl is that for real?
12:49 riche commie-fier
12:50 Ralesk :D
12:50 Ralesk well, glad it's not just me :)
12:52 nicomen tests were poor too
12:52 batman most videos are on youtube now. just waiting for confirmation...
12:52 batman let me know if i have forgotten anyone
12:52 nicomen batman: great job
12:53 batman nicomen: thanks.
12:54 sri batman++
12:55 batman nicomen: btw, i did it your way: https://github.com/jhthorsen/snippets/blob/master/media/avconv-maketalk
12:55 batman thanks for the tip :)
12:55 batman i used openshot for removing wifi information and such, but the rest is cut by avconv+perl :)
12:56 stephan48 wifiinfo?
12:57 batman stephan48: sjn informed about wifi password for y3o (where marcus work)
12:57 stephan48 ah its mentioned in the stream/metadata?
12:58 batman i don't get what you don't get stephan48...
12:58 stephan48 why is there a wifi pw in the stream?
12:59 batman because sjn put it in the presentation.
12:59 stephan48 oh ok
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12:59 riche hm, surprised q&a wasn't included
13:00 riche is that par for all the preso's?
13:00 riche batman: it's okay to make public, although I will probably get spanked for the swiss army blade remark
13:00 batman riche: yes.
13:01 batman riche: it was difficult to make the q&a part good... not sure how to explain it.
13:01 riche you're doing a great job producing these though
13:01 batman i mean... my filming experience is pretty bad already, didn't want to make the result even worse by including q&a :/
13:01 cosimo batman: i don't, no :)
13:02 batman cosimo: can you make one up?
13:02 * sri is glad his q&a was not included :)
13:02 riche lol
13:02 cosimo batman: yes, i can
13:02 batman thanks.
13:03 cosimo batman: "What every mojoconf attendee should know about the Dark Side"
13:04 batman riche: i can upload the q&a for you in a new file, but i would appreciate if i didn't have to include it in your presentation
13:04 batman cosimo: i will try to fit that into the format...
13:04 riche nah its ok, there was only one question and it was why we didn't use one of the WSDL generation modules on CPAN
13:05 batman cosimo: could "The Dark Side" be enough for the actual video?
13:05 riche I am loving writing Mojolicious::Plugin::WSDL
13:05 batman riche: thanks
13:05 batman cosimo: i will give it a go now.
13:06 riche and sri inferred I should re-read the guides yesterday, which gave me a lot of ideas around rendering, but I won't release it until it's 100% WSDL 2.0 compliant
13:06 cosimo batman: yes
13:07 cosimo batman: not sure it's worth being online...
13:07 batman haha
13:07 batman cosimo: you can decide for your self soon :)
13:08 batman marcus: let me know when you had time to review your presentations.
13:08 marcus batman: just publish it.
13:08 batman both of them?
13:08 purl both of them are good
13:09 marcus yea
13:09 marcus As long as I don’t have to watch them :p
13:09 batman marcus++
13:09 batman hahahhahaa
13:09 batman same with me :D
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13:09 nicomen batman: nice
13:10 batman nicomen?
13:10 purl nicomen is not saying anything is wrong anywhere, just surprised HTML5 spec took that course
13:10 riche sri: remember yesterday it was asked why error is not encapsulated ... aka Mojo::Message::Error
13:10 nicomen re: commify, I believe this is slightly more correct
13:10 marcus batman ++ for 1 … 100 # tuits
13:10 cosimo i blame nicomen
13:10 nicomen batman: [videos]
13:10 batman ok
13:10 nicomen $ perl -wle 'my $DEC_CHAR = "."; my $SEPARATOR=","; sub commify { my ($t,$s) = reverse split quotemeta $DEC_CHAR, reverse 0 + shift; $t =~ s{(\d{3})(?=\d)}{$1$SEPARATOR}gmx; (scalar reverse $t) . (defined $s ? $DEC_CHAR . reverse $s : ""); } print commify($_) for @ARGV;' 1 1.2 1000 1000000 10000000 100.00000 100.1234
13:10 marcus does that create communists?
13:11 mishantil Sure looks like it...
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13:12 batman dotandimet: have you received emails from me and youtube?
13:12 cosimo btw, I deserve a special prize for the mojoconf attendee with the most Perl Mongers group on its badge (4), just saying ;-)
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13:12 nicomen cosimo: nice title: "I blame nicomen"
13:12 cosimo yes :)
13:12 riche sri: nevermind, I think it's fine to desribe a Fault without it
13:13 riche cosimo: do you spend a lot of time in Melbourne?
13:13 cosimo riche: i did
13:13 batman marcus, riche: your presentations are public \o/ thanks :)
13:13 riche ah i c ... I spend roughly half my time in Canberra, no pm there :p
13:14 cosimo riche: you should found one
13:15 riche cosimo: it would be fun
13:15 riche as long as the meeting place isn't Mooseheads
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13:15 Akron Is there a simple way to still get an array from Mojo::Headers->..., e.g. link? The stringification seems to introduce comma for newlines, even in multiline link headers.
13:16 sri Akron: to_hash(1)
13:17 Akron hm. Okay. I think ->link is pretty useless as a getter then, right?
13:17 sri hmm
13:19 sri Akron: where does Link use commas again?
13:20 sri just looked at the spec and i don't see it
13:21 batman cosimo: do you have a gmail/youtube email?
13:21 Akron sri: Example in a test suite of mine: Link: </TheBook/chapter2>;\nrel="previous"; title*=UTF-8'de'letztes%20Kapitel,\n</TheBook/chapter4>;\nrel="next"; title*=UTF-8'de'n%c3%a4chstes%20Kapitel
13:22 Akron The problem is in the stringification I can't differ if a link is a multiline link or separated - so I would have to postprocess quite a bit.
13:22 sri and you're sure you're using the Link header right?
13:22 Akron I guess the test suite is copied from a spec ... let me check this.
13:23 sri i think you've misinterpreted the example
13:24 Akron Okay - these are two links, correct.
13:25 sri it's just formatting, not a multi-line header
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13:25 sri but if we handle multi-line headers incorrectly, please let me know
13:26 Akron But that illustrates the problem.
13:26 Akron So you mean multilines are not allowed that way?
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13:27 Akron I guess I really was just misreading the spec ...
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13:30 Akron Yeah - the BNF lists no new line, so I guess my tests are ust broken.
13:31 sri ok, i think we are actually concatenating wrong
13:31 sri :)
13:31 sri multi-line values might have to be concatenated with a whitespace, and only multiple headers with the same name with a comma
13:31 sri 5.01 incoming :o
13:32 bc547 :-)
13:32 sri it's funny nobody stumbled over this before, but i guess you don't see these headers in the wild very often
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13:34 sri if it works this way, the examples make perfect sense
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13:38 sri http://pastie.org/9239586 # the patch i assume will fix everything
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13:39 sri "HTTP/1.1 header field values can be folded onto multiple lines if the continuation line begins with a space or horizontal tab. All linear white space, including folding, has the same semantics as SP. A recipient MAY replace any linear white space with a single SP before interpreting the field value or forwarding the message downstream."
13:40 cpan_mojo Test-Clustericious-Cluster 0.16 by PLICEASE - http://metacpan.org/release/PLICEASE/Test-Clustericious-Cluster-0.16 (depends on Mojolicious)
13:40 sri i bet they did this originally for the examples in RFCs, so folded lines are just valid and don't need reformatting
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13:41 Akron Haha!
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13:41 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/zxXrnA
13:41 good_news_everyon mojo/master 1b99cbe Sebastian Riedel: fixed continuation line handling in Mojo::Headers
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13:42 sri Akron++
13:42 Akron So my "copy and paste the spec examples in the test case" approach works! :)
13:42 Akron Thanks! sri++
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14:10 Mikey how many attendees were at mojoconf 2014?
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14:28 sri Mikey: around 50
14:29 genio pretty good turnout.  were copious amounts of beer consumed?
14:30 sri can confirm
14:32 genio Then a good time must have been had by all.
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14:43 dotandimet batman: yes, got it. I was disappointed you cut out my exit line! (although theatre doesn't work with this slide-centric format).
14:47 dotandimet batman: send you an ok.
14:49 batman dotandimet: do you mean the "12 seconds left" ? :)
14:49 batman dotandimet: i can add that if you like, hehe
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14:50 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v5.01 at 9086052: http://git.io/COH8IQ
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14:51 batman dotandimet: that's an awful ending. i will fix it.
14:51 batman thanks for noticing
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14:51 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5B8gZA
14:51 good_news_everyon mojo/master 87c401c Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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14:51 cpan_mojo Mojolicious 5.01 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-5.01
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14:56 tempire And it begins
14:58 batman cosimo: can i make your video public?
15:09 riche man i just upgraded a few hours ago
15:09 riche lol
15:09 * sri blames Akron
15:12 riche perldoc Mojo::Cache
15:12 riche auuurgh
15:12 crab after listening to marcus's talk, i'm listening to sri's talk to see if he says moyolicious too, but i if he said it, it must have been in the first 2:15. hmpf.
15:13 sri actually i did say it a few times in the first 2 minutes
15:13 batman crab: what do you mean?
15:13 riche can "anyone" use Mojo::Cache?  I mean, I don't want to keep reading/parsing perldoc for every call
15:13 crab batman: no sound in the first 2:15, so i have no idea how he says mojolicious
15:14 batman oh. is there more ways to say it..?
15:14 crab marcus said moyolicious, and i suddenly realised that sri might too
15:14 sri i might say it again later on too though
15:14 crab sri: yes, i'm listening :-)
15:14 riche moholeeesus
15:14 crab batman: j can be pronounced "h" (by spaniards) or as, err, jay. by everyone else.
15:15 riche actually it would be moholeeseeus
15:15 batman haha
15:15 batman ok :)
15:15 * crab imagines batman thinking "why would anyone pronounce j as yay"
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15:15 sri yea, in the minion section
15:16 sri towards the end
15:16 batman ;)
15:17 crab hah. i love the "bad news, everyone" slide for the new json rfc
15:19 sri my meme delivery was a little weak otherwise, something else to work on
15:22 cosimo batman: i would prefer if it wasn't public. it was meant for the few that were at the conference
15:22 sri but i'm very happy that presenter notes worked out so well, not gonna have much trouble with talks in the future \o/
15:22 batman cosimo: okey.
15:23 cosimo batman: not sure it adds much value to the conference
15:23 batman cosimo: i won't make a fuzz, even though i think every talk counts.
15:23 batman if i didn't, i wouldn't allow mine to be public :P
15:24 cosimo i really wanted to get that message out, but i watched the video, and (apart from being a bit embarrassed) I think it came out a bit more 'making-fun-of-python' than I wanted
15:25 batman but...it's python!
15:25 batman ;)
15:26 crab what was the talk?
15:26 riche yeps but the lib1 lib2 etc mention was funny
15:27 cosimo crab: was just a 5' lightning talk about my experience of 2 years of working with Python after 15 of Perl. Basically the message is don't believe the hype about Python and Django so much
15:28 cosimo nice language, good framework, but lots of things to be improved in that land too
15:28 crab sri: yay, you said mojolicious
15:28 cosimo wrt people complaining about Perl etc...
15:32 crab sri: did you draw these little blue-and-yellow minions?
15:32 sri hell no, they are from despicable me http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323594/
15:34 sri apparently the minions are getting their own movie now \o/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2293640/
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15:37 crab oh
15:41 Jonis sri: if you made minion, does that make you Gru?
15:49 jzawodn 5.0++
15:52 dabudabu Oh, Mojolicious is on slashdot
15:53 Mikey sri: re headcount.  thank you!
15:57 dabudabu http://developers.slashdot.org/story/14/05/30/158255/perl-520-released-and-mojolicious-50-the-very-modern-perl-web-framework
15:58 nic I've learned lots from Mojoconf2014
15:59 nic I'd always read the name as Dot-and-i-met; thought it was someone very proud of meeting Dot Cotton
16:05 tempire presenter notes are great
16:05 tempire but it helps to go over the talk several times per day leading up to it
16:06 tempire so that you've essentially memorized the material without effort
16:06 tempire that way you can look at the audience while you're speaking
16:06 tempire makes for a better experience for both parties
16:06 tempire that's what I've learned, at least.
16:06 tempire I'm hesitant to post my lightning talk video
16:07 tempire I don't like my delivery; it was rushed and the timing was off for the humor.
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16:14 nic Getting subtle messages via Amazon... they're recommending The Secret of Getting Things Done by...      Sri
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16:18 punter You're on slashdot: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/14/05/30/158255/perl-520-released-and-mojolicious-50-the-very-modern-perl-web-framework?utm_source=slashdot&amp;utm_medium=facebook
16:21 jzawodn how much of Mojoconf was recorded?
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16:26 crab jzawodn: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgk2wCZr5Rk-cewLTtQA_Fg/videos
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16:30 Mikey ahh glad i caught the compression being opt in in your slides, sri.  i think it's a good decision, especially given the increased ram requirements
16:30 Mikey *websocket compression
16:30 sri it was actually a last minute decision :)
16:31 sri for a few releases it was opt-in client side and opt-out server side
16:31 Mikey yeah, well 5.0 is when to break it
16:31 Mikey thats when people are looking for changes like that
16:32 Mikey fwiw, in my app it makes a noticable difference, lots of json flowing over websockets
16:33 Mikey i'm gonna show your mojoconf preso this afternoon to my dev team
16:33 crab i'm glad mojo releases early/often, i can't wait until we can have versions like 8i and 10g
16:33 Mikey since i just finished (a very drama free) updating of the codebase from 4.x to 5.x
16:33 Mikey thanks for making this such a pain free process
16:33 sri \o/
16:34 sri i expected the partial change to be a little bit of a pita
16:34 Mikey this is a 25k+ line mojo app
16:34 Mikey oh i have a demo site up now.. demo.academicaportal.com
16:34 Mikey you guys can check it out
16:34 Mikey lame simple registration form with no validation :)
16:35 Mikey but that's just for the demo site, as real users are provisioned from LDAP or other ERPs
16:40 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-Number-Commify 0.022 by Nic Sandfield - http://metacpan.org/release/NICZERO/Mojolicious-Plugin-Number-Commify-0.022
16:42 nic Ralesk: That ^^ is the version you were waiting for :)
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17:03 nic Mikey++
17:06 Mikey :D
17:07 Mikey it's an academic portal based on a pretty solid and extensible Twitter/Facebook clone (uses ZeroMQ, should scale to "moderate size")
17:07 Mikey im trying to get the university to open source it, it could become a "killer app" of sorts, with support
17:18 r0b3rt Did sri get the hat mentioned in tempire lightning talk?
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17:23 riche omg editing an xml handler ep in xml-mode is like self-flagellation
17:53 jzawodn crab: thanks!
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18:04 sri r0b3rt: no hat yet
18:16 * sri wonders how much Mojo::Template performance benefits from the CoW improvements in 5.20
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18:32 jim how stable is the "head" version of mojolicious? currently it is at 5.01, thinking if I should upgrade from 4.87 when I first had mojolicious installed.
18:37 sri define stable
18:38 jim doesn't break old apps written at the time of 4.87
18:38 sri this is how we work http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Contributing#Rules
18:42 jim Thanks sri, the rules make lots sense. upgrading.
18:42 sri make sure to read the changelog
18:43 jim yup will do
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19:18 tempire jim: Use Carton, which manages dependencies and locks them in at particular versions
19:18 tempire You know
19:18 tempire There should be a simple and defacto Carton tutorial
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19:26 jim tempire: thanks will lok into carton.
19:27 nic it's quite easy to do it DIY too
19:28 nic eg a pkg.lst file containing one per line like "Mojolicious@4.87" then get cpanm to iterate over them
19:28 nic (they need to be in order though)
19:29 jim what keywoards to google search for pkg.list file?
19:29 stephan48 cpanm can read cpanfile
19:29 nic pkg.lst is just the name we use @$work
19:32 sri seriously, just use a cpanfile
19:33 nic cpanfile is much more versatile but harder for non-perl to read
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19:58 sri marcus: this sounds like a bug https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/M7PKWm4ts5k
19:58 sri might have to keep $tx alive for the finish event or so
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20:09 riche I love seeing code comments like this: Oh look, a yawning portal to Hell!  Let's play touch football right by it!
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21:19 nic purecss 0.5 was released this week too
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21:37 phillipadsmith What exactly are "cheap helpers," were they expensive in some way to use before 5.0?
21:38 ente "cheap helpers" sounds like "unpaid open source programmers" for some reason
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21:50 sri phillipadsmith: watch my talk ;)
21:53 phillipadsmith sri: read the slides, but didn't watch the video yet… will do
21:53 batman sri: yeah, i think the plugin need to check if a response is already rendered.
21:54 batman marcus: also, the SYNOPSIS has a typo. my $self->shift
21:54 sri batman: it's a garbage collection issue
21:55 sri tx is gone before finish event fires i believe
21:55 batman the SYNOPSIS is not good at all :(
21:55 batman a good thing is to write a test based on SYNOPSIS
21:56 batman marcus: the "synopsis" under the "register" method does not make any sense either.
21:56 batman it's $self->register($app, \%config);
21:57 batman sri: yes it is, but it's not a mojo issue, it's a rendersteps issue
21:57 batman imho
21:57 batman at least calling render() twice doesn't make any sense to me...
22:24 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-OnFork 0.002 by Bernhard Graf - http://metacpan.org/release/GRAF/Mojolicious-Plugin-OnFork-0.002
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