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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-06-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:18 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
00:18 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Q24UlQ
00:18 good_news_everyon mojo/master 3ea7ab5 Nils Diewald: steady_time seems to be no important import
00:18 good_news_everyon mojo/master 40e04b7 Sebastian Riedel: Merge pull request #637 from Akron/patch-3...
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01:15 jberger abhishekisnot: btw, I am trying your app again, it works for me in the browser locally and on your site
01:28 jberger it seems that different browsers display JSON differently
01:29 jberger my desktop chromium works fine, my phone's chrome displays it badly
01:29 jberger so I added an explicit header and it now seems to work on my phone too
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01:36 jberger then again, this seems to simply be a browser rendering problem, I think that the data was correctly rendered by the server (after the input decoding was done correctly that is)
01:37 jberger lesson number one about unicode, never trust what your eyes tell you
01:37 * jberger sigh
01:37 jberger unicode is hard
01:37 * jberger goes shopping
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02:00 jberger hmm I wonder if this is still true under the new json rfc: http://stackoverflow.com/a/14955491/468327
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02:13 Adura Anticipation...!
02:13 purl anticipation is probably >half the fun or especially so for women
02:14 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-SessionCompress 0.01 by SOHASHI - http://metacpan.org/release/SOHASHI/Mojolicious-Plugin-SessionCompress-0.01
02:14 Adura Yes, poke at my module!
02:15 Adura Did half the pod wrong, oh well.
02:33 jberger Adura: yikes that seems a little ... yikes
02:34 Adura Why I mentioned it.
02:34 Adura In the Caveats, that is.
02:38 sri jberger: nope, not true in the new spec anymore, that specific section has been completely removed
02:47 crab btw, i noticed the other day while debugging that we generate redirects that look like "Location: http:/main/index" if the request doesn't have a Host header field
02:52 Adura Hmm, 5.12.5 causes odd test failure on my module.
02:55 jberger Adura: btw here is an online pod renderer if you should want to check in the future
02:55 jberger http://search.cpan.org/pod2html
02:55 purl http://search.cpan.org/pod2html is, like, handy if you want to see what it looks like
02:56 Adura Thanks, thought there might be one.
02:56 jberger I wish meta had one
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03:03 Adura Oh, 5.12.5 makes Mojolicious' sessions bigger.
03:03 Adura How... odd.
03:06 sri wow, that SessionCompress plugin is evil
03:07 Adura Evil, but effective.
03:07 sri compressing sessions above a certain size is smart though
03:08 Adura Default is half that of a page gzip plugin, round trip and all.
03:10 sri i wonder if it's an attack vector
03:10 Adura For something that's signed?
03:10 Adura Or, zlib insecurity?
03:23 crab if a compressed session bites you, you could get malaria
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03:31 abhishekisnot jberger: indeed, adding explicit header displays JP text correctly on all the browsers. Agree - never trust what your eyes tell you with unicode. :)
03:31 abhishekisnot jberger: thank you very much for your help on this.
03:35 jberger No problem
03:50 sri wasn't there a bug where some json highlighting browser plugins broke charset handling for application/json?
04:00 jberger personally, I think it's a bug in any browser that doesn't assume utf8 for application/json files when the spec specifically requires it (well requires Unicode)
04:02 crab sri: is there something we can do about Location: http:/foo/bar?
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04:30 sri hmm, i do wonder if we should do session compression
04:31 sri http://pastie.org/9279037 # here's a full patch that works basically the same as websocket compression
04:33 Adura Your Mango::BSON was the leanest serializer I tried.
04:34 Adura I used memLevel 5 because it seemed to be the best speed/compression for the session sizes.
04:34 Adura Also Level 1 for minimal CPU overhead.
04:35 Adura Paired with a custom compressor like LZ4, there's barely an CPU overhead.
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04:41 sri jberger, tempire, marcus, crab: opinions!
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04:44 Adura With the de/serialize methods, custom compression would be possible...
04:44 Adura You'd need a flag for the default compression, or just put the min_compression_size to some ridiculous number.
04:51 crab i'll trade your opinion for mine!
04:53 crab the patch looks ok, but i'm not really convinced that session compression is worthwhile. i don't have any real objection though.
04:53 Adura Session cookies are included with requests to assets in public, right?
04:54 crab but i'd prefer it if it the dependency on Compress::Blah were optional
04:54 crab adura: unless you do something to stop that, yes
04:54 Adura Compress::Blah is used elsewhere in Mojolicious.
04:56 crab so it is. forget that, then.
04:57 crab it's actually a core module. duh.
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05:07 sri crab: we don't actually need to generate absolute urls anymore as of the latest HTTP/1.1 rfc
05:08 sri Adura: you've been trolling me so much, i have no idea what to take serious anymore
05:08 Adura I make light of things, I don't troll.
05:11 Adura If you mean those specific compression settings, I could show the script I used.
05:12 Adura I'll have to rip out all the other compressors I was testing.
05:31 batman sri: i think you're right (vacation). sorry for being weird :/
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06:22 tempire I have the same raised eyebrow as crab.
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06:22 tempire Is session compression really necessary?
06:27 crab i can't think of any really good reason to want it
06:28 Adura Bandwidth savings...!
06:28 Adura You're already compressing your body usually... right?
06:30 tempire a session is one or 2 values
06:31 Adura Well, you'd not enable it if you think you'd never hit the min_compression_size.
06:39 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-SessionCompress 0.02 by SOHASHI - http://metacpan.org/release/SOHASHI/Mojolicious-Plugin-SessionCompress-0.02
06:40 crab "needs desperately to save bandwidth" and "must have ginormous session data" seems like a pretty odd intersection
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06:41 Adura Well, at the very least an option to change the serializer so individual users can choose.
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06:57 crab are you saying you actually have a need for this?
06:57 crab or are you just saying you think it's a cool feature?
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07:03 Adura Need to save some bytes... naw, I'm not Google. Cool feature, cool enough that I made a module. But, having the option to change serializer at the least would allow some to get over Mojo::JSON not being XS.
07:04 bc547 is Mojo::JSON much slower than JSON::XS?
07:07 crab adura: oh, are you SOHASHI?
07:07 Adura Yeah.
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07:12 tempire bc547: yes
07:12 tempire mojo::json is pure perl
07:12 tempire JSON::XS is blazing fast c
07:13 tempire the speed diff is orders of magnitude
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07:16 bc547 in that case, I'm a fan of replacing the serializer... I have a few cases where I'd like to encode/decode large data arrays/hashes (+100KB up to 4MB) multiple times/sec.
07:16 bc547 s/of replacing/ of the option to replace/
07:18 Adura You're certainly not doing that with sessions, I hope. :P
07:18 bc547 no :-)
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07:43 tempire bc547: replace the json serializer?
07:43 Adura Replacing the entirety of it would take a lot of monkey_patch.
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07:50 bc547 tempire: it would be nice to have the option to choose for a faster one in certain cases. Right now, I have a work-around and do not encode/decode the data with JSON due to performance issues. But conceptually, it would be nicer to use json :-)
07:50 tempire I'm not sure it matters for small data like the session.
07:51 bc547 for small data it really does not matter
07:51 tempire in terms of rendering, you can replace the handler with whatever you want.
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08:04 batman i wonder if mojo could have more optional pluggable modules... like "use this module instead, if it exists"
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08:05 Adura Bit more cpan outreach?
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08:18 bc547 tempire: my case is mainly for processing incoming 'big' data via POST.
08:18 batman oh. no... i guess that won't work, since ex Mojo::JSON does things more correct than many other JSON modules...
08:18 cpan_mojo MojoX-GlobalEvents 0.02 by Renee Baecker - http://metacpan.org/release/RENEEB/MojoX-GlobalEvents-0.02
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10:03 cpan_mojo Mojo-YR 0.03 by Marcus Ramberg - http://metacpan.org/release/MRAMBERG/Mojo-YR-0.03
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11:24 jberger I wouldn't oppose having a serialize/deserialize method pair in sessions, however, couldn't someone just subclass Mojolicious::Sessions and replace the app's session handler?
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11:40 batman jberger++ # i agree
11:41 batman Adura: app->sessions(Mojolicious::Plugin::SessionCompress->new);
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12:09 * jberger tries a new phone keyboard
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12:33 marcus hodor hodor hodor
12:34 marcus http://www.slashgear.com/hodor-keyboard-born-in-ios-8s-swift-06332374/
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12:43 sri allright, i guess that's 3 -1 votes against session compresion already
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12:49 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aG2X_w
12:49 good_news_everyon mojo/master c58082b Sebastian Riedel: improved redirect_to to behave more like url_for
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12:49 sri crab: that should also solve your problem
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13:12 sri i can't think of good reasons for having sessions bigger than 250 bytes either
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13:15 batman marcus: hahahaha # hodor :)
13:16 batman sri: i would like 10MB in my session cookie storage. i will move to dancer if mojo can't give me that.
13:16 marcus sri: Won’t this break any existing code that redirects to another site/
13:16 batman yeah...and can you also stuff a vacation in that session storage, just for me..? :)
13:16 sri marcus: that's a tested case *cough*
13:17 marcus hrm, I guess you are right. shouldn’t be a problem.
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13:21 * batman hides
13:21 jberger_ batman/sri: oh and put a nice steak in there too!
13:22 batman compressed steak or a regular one..?
13:22 sri maybe some cupcakes too
13:22 jberger_ Compression helps tenderization right?
13:22 nicomen add some unicorns while you are it
13:23 jberger_ Glitter for tempura of course
13:23 sri now you're being silly...
13:23 jberger_ Tempire
13:23 nicomen jberger_: helps in meat/ccm ratio ;)
13:23 nicomen (or is that cubic cardbox in Ye Olde non-Metric System?)
13:24 nicomen next Mojoconf, we should make some Tempire Maki
13:24 jberger_ Here this pretty much solves it : http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e5a7/
13:25 nicomen \o/
13:26 nicomen jberger_: you realise it's actualy compressed meat right?
13:26 jberger_ Exactly
13:27 nicomen When you open your can, you will find one tiny unicorn which has been appropriately sliced into its main cuts of meat. Simply use your Growth Ray to re-embiggen the unicorn before skinning it and processing its flesh. Or if you're lazy, just bring it to your local Mad Scientist-Butcher. He'll know what to do.
13:27 nicomen Mad Scientist-Butcher, or sri as we call him here
13:27 jberger_ I don't see the problem there
13:27 jberger_ Hahahaha
13:27 purl LOLCON 4 reached.
13:27 nicomen hahahaha ^
13:30 sri oh, one reason to have a little more data in the session would be flash messages
13:31 nicomen hmmm, flesh massages, sounds nice
13:32 sri shut up and get into the giant meat grinder
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13:33 nicomen ooh it's shiny! what's this giant blade doi...
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13:34 sri this is nicomen now http://cdn.cakecentral.com/3/39/200x200px-ZC-39094b06_PurpleMinion.jpeg
13:38 marcus I can’t tell the difference.
13:38 marcus same hair, same glasses.
13:38 sri :D
13:40 nicomen banana!
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14:05 kb3ien Whats the best way to access formdata from inside a controller ?
14:06 batman kb3ien: $value = $self->param('form_field_name');
14:07 batman kb3ien: this is basic knowledge. have you looked at the https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Lite tutorial?
14:08 kb3ien I've been reading a LOT, but that makes sense...
14:08 maze I use $self->req->param('blah');
14:09 batman maze: why?
14:10 maze Got that from an example app and used it since...
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14:23 kb3ien Is there a list of the parameters that are defined ?
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14:32 crab use req->params->to_hash
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14:45 batman kb3ien: @parameter_names = $self->param;
14:46 batman maze :)
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14:52 crab what's the recommended way to get multiple-valued parameters now?
14:52 sri did it change?
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15:03 kb3ien that totally works, Thanks.
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15:11 nic I'm struggling writing my first test that has two async callbacks (for UserAgent)
15:11 nic If there's only one callback then you can Mojo::IOLoop->stop at the end of the callback and everything is golden
15:12 sri delays
15:12 nic ah, didn't think to search for that.  Thanks
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15:31 TitanOfOld Well, this timing stuff is not that fun.
15:32 TitanOfOld The "200 OK (%f, %f/s)" is somewhere between render time and response time.
15:32 TitanOfOld Or dispatch time.
15:32 TitanOfOld However you want to look at it.
15:32 TitanOfOld So, whose numbers to believe?
15:37 TitanOfOld http://bpaste.net/show/363513/
15:48 batman TitanOfOld: when do you need that much accuracy?
15:49 TitanOfOld Never. I just wanted millisecond.
15:50 TitanOfOld But, does the timing stuff look reasonably accurate? As in, not a bald face lie.
15:50 TitanOfOld Or am I doing it wrong....
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15:57 sri TitanOfOld: before_render may run multiple times
16:00 TitanOfOld So, I am doing it not quite right.
16:01 TitanOfOld Should I just stick with before,after_dispatch?
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16:21 tempura Behold. An asian alter-ego. Tempire, battered and deep-fried.
16:21 sri ohoh, evil twin alert
16:24 tempura https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/222405_10151205904389235_570294911_n.jpg
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16:38 jberger_ tempura: o/
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17:45 sri muhahahaha... that tweetdeck vulnerability is hilarious
17:45 Adura bayashi, guess that makes sense, but wouldn't I have to update my module each time Mojolicious::Session changes?
17:45 Adura Shit.
17:45 Adura Wrong nick!
17:45 Adura Ahem, batman, rather!
17:47 sri i'm not opposed to session serialization/deserialization hooks, but first i want to see use cases from multiple people
17:48 Jonis tempura: that is a glorious moustache.
17:48 Adura Don't know if that many people think about smaller headers or performance gains from changing serializer.
17:50 Jonis tempure: despite my ridiculously good beard-growth my moustache never reaches that level of gloriousness.
17:50 Jonis I'm full of envy.
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17:55 tempura Jonis: It's because you moved away from britain
17:55 tempura you lost the pretentiousness required.
17:56 espen_ hi, i'm getting some strange "Premature connection close" errors when using Mojo::UserAgent against a server started with plackup... to reproduce:
17:56 espen_ 1. mojo generate app && plackup my_app/script/my_app
17:56 espen_ 2. perl -MMojo::UserAgent -E '$ua=Mojo::UserAgent->new;for (1..10) {$tx=$ua->get("http://localhost:5000/");say $tx->res->message || $tx->error->{message} }'
17:57 espen_ seems to work fine when using the builtin server... any ideas?
17:58 espen_ Mojolicious version 5.05, Plack version 1.0030 btw
17:59 nicomen wfm even with 1..100
18:00 nicomen but mojolicious 4.91 and plack 0.9989-1
18:03 espen_ okie nicomen
18:03 espen_ forgot to say that it only happens to some of the request and it seems to be completely random which ones
18:04 nicomen I'm guessing some requests actually take more than 10 seconds to return?
18:07 espen_ they're all getting the default welcome page from the generated app, so i doubt it :)
18:08 espen_ and they're all done in under half a second
18:09 nicomen and only 10 right?
18:11 espen_ yeah... it happens with more than 10 too
18:12 nicomen was able to reproduce with 10000
18:15 espen_ same result with Mojolicious 4.26
18:21 espen_ hmm... works fine if i sleep 1ms between the requests; perl -MMojo::UserAgent -E '$ua=Mojo::UserAgent->new;for (1..10) {$tx=$ua->get("http://localhost:5000/");say $tx->res->message || $tx->error;select(undef, undef, undef, 0.001); }'
18:21 espen_ gonna try with an older Plack
18:22 nicomen do you have EV installed?
18:23 sri is that the garbage default plack server?
18:24 espen_ yeah nicomen
18:24 espen_ sri: default from Plack, yeah
18:24 espen_ should i use something else?
18:24 sri lol
18:25 sri if you can't replicate it with a real server, then that's your answer
18:32 sri i also can't replicate it, with any number of requests
18:35 sri ah, got it
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18:37 sri looks like timing problem where the garbage server advertises keep-alive but closes connections silently after the response, and sometimes the user agent is too fast and reuses the connection before the server closed it
18:37 sri then the server closes it after the request has been written
18:39 sri oh crap, might actually be our fault
18:40 nicomen I love when it's my fault, then at least I can fix it ;)
18:43 sri my opinion on the server stands, but it is correct in this case, and our keep-alive logic needs a tweak
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19:04 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/D-TpMQ
19:04 good_news_everyon mojo/master 15e02f7 Sebastian Riedel: fixed bug in Mojo::UserAgent where HTTP/1.0 connections were sometimes kept alive
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19:05 sri espen: fixed
19:07 genio Did you mean to duplicate line 39 of Mojo::Transaction::HTTP ?
19:07 stephan48 and 34/35
19:07 purl 0.971428571428571
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19:07 sri look closer
19:08 genio sri: ahhh, my bad
19:08 stephan48 ok right.
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19:10 sri no clue why i used blocks though
19:11 genio I was looking to see if it was just a style you adhered to.
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19:11 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Q3-NSw
19:11 good_news_everyon mojo/master 555108c Sebastian Riedel: no need to use blocks
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19:20 espen_ sri: i saw the same error with a server using FCGI::Engine (not easially reproducable) - which is why i started debugging this
19:21 sri read the backlog
19:22 espen_ i thought i was onto somehing when i got the same error straight away using the default server
19:22 espen_ but i agree that debugging with a different server is kinda useless heh
19:23 espen_ backlog wasn't of much help
19:27 sri haha, this quote is so true... "Keep in mind that when you send a pull request you're saying, "I wrote some code. I think you should maintain it.""
19:28 sri not a bad summary of the rails/merb merge http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.de/2014/06/the-railsmerb-merge-in-retrospect.html
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20:52 tempura This is an interesting article
20:52 tempura (railsmerb)
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21:13 Jonis anyone here used guard for testing?
21:13 Jonis I asked two seconds before going to bed
21:13 sri ok, i think i have a valid reason for adding serialize/deserialize callback attributes to Mojolicious::Sessions, for security a plugin that also encrypts serialized sessions might make a lot of sense
21:14 Adura That tackles people not understanding the cookies aren't encrypted.
21:15 sri so with alternative serialization formats, compression and encryption, there seem to be enough reasons
21:15 Adura That being said, warn of that one attack with compressed+encrypted data that can be modified by user input.
21:15 Adura Has one of those acronyms...
21:16 Adura CRIME... maybe.
21:18 * genio wishes for the days when cookies are no longer needed
21:18 Adura A return to session urls?
21:20 genio eww.
21:22 sri actually one of the biggest criticisms of http/2... it doesn't get rid of cookies
21:23 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
21:23 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/79yrwg
21:23 good_news_everyon mojo/master 563a2c7 Sebastian Riedel: added deserialize and serialize callbacks to Mojolicious::Sessions
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21:24 nicomen what are the (good) alternatives?
21:25 Adura IPv6..>!
21:25 nicomen heh
21:26 Adura WWW-Authenticate...!
21:26 purl hmmm... www-authenticate is only if you want the user to see the un/pw box from their browser. do you need to redirect to the login page? you could just display it right there, no?
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21:42 nicomen Adura: actually, I used that.
21:42 nicomen You can log out people contrary to popular belief
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