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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-06-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:27 jberger MojoConf in my basement!
01:28 * jberger thinks he can fit about 12 people tops
01:29 jberger I wish i could have gone to YAPC NA, but right after MojoConf, i couldn't ask for more time
01:29 * jberger chose mojo
01:32 jberger I missed the live talks today
01:33 jberger Anything special?
01:38 jberger sri++ # $c/$app
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01:44 firnsy MojoConf.AU?
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03:29 sri ohoh, i would be scared of all the poisonous animals all the time :o
03:34 firnsy lol
03:37 tempire batman will protect you
03:37 tempire http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0032/7882/products/batcat2_large.jpg?v=1314646495
03:37 sri nananananananana
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04:08 sri oh, this would be really cool if it worked https://atom.io/packages/regex-railroad-diagram
04:09 firnsy reminds me of the sqlite online doco diagrams ... really nice
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04:41 Adura Oh, netsplit.
04:41 purl netsplit is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
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05:37 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/swocEQ
05:37 good_news_everyon mojo/master cfdae5a Sebastian Riedel: do not use $self for callbacks
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06:16 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eaCZ4w
06:16 good_news_everyon mojo/master 13983b0 Sebastian Riedel: mention renaming $c to $self in growing guide
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06:52 sri jberger: you really don't think $self in templates is weird now?
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06:59 * lb thinks it's weird that $self is a C in the V
07:00 sri we can't really deprecate $self, but also initializing $c and using it in the documentation is something we could do
07:00 * lb liked that in TTrenderer
07:03 sri perhaps remove it in 6.0
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07:08 * sri pokes tempire, jberger, marcus and crab
07:09 tempire certainly not before 6.0
07:09 tempire I'm indifferent about it
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07:10 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/IL2GtQ
07:10 good_news_everyon mojo/master a3e1cb1 Sebastian Riedel: improved .ep templates to make the current controller available as $c
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07:10 sri i think it feels right
07:13 sri oi, marcus sneaking out :o
07:14 batman sneaking out?
07:14 sri or do you see him?
07:14 batman oh. right :)
07:15 batman i think he is upgrading servers (where convos is also running)
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07:25 sri hahaha, and now there's already talk of HTTP/3 in the http working group
07:26 sri (since we are rushing HTTP/2, lets start planning HTTP/3 where we fix all the things we know HTTP/2 got wrong...)
07:26 sri *facepalm*
07:27 batman ;)
07:27 preaction we just need to call it STTP now. The Simple Text Transport Protocol, because anything named Simple is everything but...
07:31 sri google and mozilla have also decided that their HTTP/2 implementations will only work with TLS
07:31 sri so no more proxies
07:32 sri there is no chance whatsoever that HTTP/1.1 will be abandoned by the mainstream, i think we will see a multi protocol future
07:33 sri with the mainstream sticking to HTTP/1.1, and big companies like google and facebook using HTTP/2 as an optimization
07:33 sri so basically just an ietf blessed version of SPDY
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07:41 sri haha, and the recent complaint about corporate interests in the http working group i linked to the other day has been struck down as off-topic
07:44 crab sri: you mean make $c automatically set in controller methods and NOT $self?
07:44 sri crab: i mean what i committed above
07:45 crab i don't understand. you said "perhaps remove it in 6.0". is that not what you were poking me about?
07:45 sri i don't understand what you said
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07:46 crab why did you poke me? perhaps i misunderstood. tell me what you want to look at, and i'll look again.
07:46 sri my last commit is all i was talking about
07:46 sri with the option of not setting $self in 6.0
07:46 crab last commit looks fine.
07:47 sri the actual line in question https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a3e1cb1a5b12f39ce0288e7f4ff5246a41db9455#diff-3232c50beb28eaedf75f5a67dd9b1ca4R36
07:47 crab but i'd be opposed to removing $self altogether
07:47 sri how so?
07:48 sri i don't feel strongly about removing it, but if we decide to actually keep it, shouldn't it be documented as well? and then, how would you explain the presence of both?
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08:08 sri *crickets*
08:10 crab ok, then i'm opposed to changing to $c (sorry, was away making lunch)
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08:16 crab using $c consistently is certainly useful in documentation/examples, and might be good for people who're new to perl. but killing $self will be very not good for people who do know perl and for whom these expectations are already normal
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08:42 sri crab: how is $self in templates normal?
08:44 sri i'm not aware of another template system that handles it this way
08:45 crab hmm, that makes me wonder: why is it $c and not a helper named c or controller?
08:46 sri we already have a c helper
08:47 sri controller would work, but is that better?
08:48 * sri pokes jberger, tempire and marcus again
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08:49 crab not saying controller is better than c
08:49 sri our c helper is for collections
08:50 crab oh
08:50 nicomen I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing on, but the good thing about using $c and $app explicitly, specially in examples is to give a reader a good hint of what that object is. Also when nesting subs, having several $self's is confusing
08:51 nicomen $self is common for object method argument notation, but in this case when you have such a thoroughly used controller object $c makes very much sense
08:51 sri yea, $c is self explanatory now, that's a pretty big advantage
08:51 nicomen $self->explanatory :-)
08:53 sri and $self is only used for referencing the invocant from methods everywhere else in mojolicious
08:54 sri (named methods)
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10:16 batman https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/jhthorsen/redis2-0.01 # i really don't know what more i need to add to Mojo::Redis2
10:17 batman i was thinking about adding "ready" and "idle" events.
10:17 batman (talking about basic functionality)
10:18 batman i need to define a good way to do pubsub, blpop, monitor and such.
10:18 batman i'm not sure if i even want an "error" event
10:30 sri batman: i think you do, for connection errors that happen when no operation is active
10:31 sri or when a callback fails
10:33 batman why do i care about connection error when no operation is active?
10:33 batman i agree on "callback fails" though. thanks :)
10:34 batman do you have an example? (connection errors)
10:37 sri server goes bananas and sends you random shit before going up in flames
10:37 batman haha. ok :)
10:39 sri streams can simply emit error events at any time, i hate the idea of ignoring those
10:40 batman sounds sane. i agree.
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11:07 john Hello.
11:08 jberger I think exposing $c in templates is sane
11:08 jberger As for a helper, i would use current_controller
11:08 john I've just upgraded from 4.9x to the latest and render partial no longer works
11:08 john %= $self->render($menu_, partial => 1, row => $row ) is returning "1"
11:09 john instead of html
11:09 john Looking in Controller.pm, the partial bit has been removed.
11:09 jberger https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/mojolicious/PYfjHyVj26w
11:10 jberger john ^^
11:10 john Thank you for that
11:12 jberger No problem
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11:25 sri jberger: question is what to do with $self
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11:27 batman i think current_controller is a bit too verbose
11:27 sri yea, a helper is not really on the table imo anyway
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11:27 sri $c is good
11:27 batman +1
11:27 purl 1
11:27 sri only question is what to do about the old $self
11:28 sri my preference is to remove it in 6.0
11:28 sri i'm open to keeping both too, but that would require an explanation in the documentation
11:30 batman sri: i've added https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/jhthorsen/redis2-0.01#Pub/sub (and some events)
11:30 batman comments?
11:30 purl comments are lying. next_for_GC *is* the GC marking mechanism right now
11:32 sri looks good
11:32 batman seriously?? do you even like $redis->unsubscribe($id); ?
11:32 sri although, i think i would do the abstraction a little differently
11:33 sri yea, hehe, i would use a subscription object i believe
11:33 sri not sure about $err as first argument for recurring callbacks, maybe better an error event on the subscription object
11:34 batman imo it's painful to keep subscription objects around
11:34 batman i'm trying to just have one $redis object for each server, which can handle multiple connections
11:34 jberger I have no problem with exposing both variables
11:35 sri jberger: but how would you mention it in the documentation? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a3e1cb1a5b12f39ce0288e7f4ff5246a41db9455#diff-65cf575515a0ad467194433b39cd30d3R142
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11:36 sri batman: i'm not a redis expert, so take my opinion with a grain of salt
11:36 batman neither am i :(
11:37 sri batman: interesting how different the node module does it https://github.com/mranney/node_redis#publish--subscribe
11:37 batman but do you think it's a *bad* idea, or just a *different* idea?
11:38 sri apparently the node module doesn't use a connection pool, that simplifies things
11:38 sri it makes sense considering how stateful redis connections are
11:38 batman i guess it simplifies a bit from the internal point of view, but i'm not sure if it makes it simpler for the end user
11:38 sri i think it does
11:39 sri if you want a pool, you build it around the connection
11:39 batman i think it's a bit complex for the end user to remember which commands that "take over" the connection and which that doesn't
11:40 sri think i've said it before, i would just copy the node api :)
11:40 batman i'm trying to accomplish that none of the commands (blpop, subscribe, ...) render the current object useless for other commands
11:41 sri oh, it has a "bulk()" api :) https://github.com/mranney/node_redis#multiexec-callback-
11:42 sri batman:i guess the connection pool doesn't really matter in the end
11:42 batman what do you mean?
11:42 sri you could still use events for pub/sub just like it does
11:43 batman yeah, i guess.
11:44 sri simple message event is neat
11:45 sri the redis2 object just subscribes to more channels, and you get more message events
11:46 batman i will add that *brb*
11:46 sri ah, there's also pmessage events for patterns
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12:32 batman add message/pmessage events: https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/jhthorsen/redis2-0.01#Pub/sub
12:32 batman redefined the (p)subscribe methods as well.
12:41 batman sri: ^
12:41 batman not sure if i can get much feedback, since i know where you stand :)
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12:57 sri batman: i like it though
12:58 * sri shakes jberger
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13:00 batman \o/
13:00 batman <3
13:02 batman is it #mojo or #mojolicious on twitter? i always get confused :(
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13:04 batman looks like it's #mojolicious
13:06 Adura https://twitter.com/deborahkagan/status/480458904066088961 We can do that with Mojolicious?!
13:07 batman hehe
13:08 batman maybe i need to make Mojo::Twitter with $twitter->subsribe("#mojolicious")->on(tweet => sub { my ($twitter, $message, $tag) = @_; ... });
13:08 batman ;)
13:09 batman s!subsribe!subscribe!
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13:17 Adura It's great to see women using Mojolicious.
13:18 crab what?
13:19 BinGOs s!anybody!! # there, fixed with less misogyny
13:20 Adura Oi, it's a joke about twitterer using the tag.
13:21 BinGOs I missed the previous context.
13:22 Adura Heh.
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13:31 jberger_ ENOMOREJBERGER
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13:34 jberger__ controller object as both C<$self> and C<$c>
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13:37 batman jberger_: makes sense. and then deprecate $self in v6.
13:37 batman JUST ONE MILLION TEMPLATES TO REWRITE!
13:37 batman ;)
13:38 jberger_ I still think current_controller is nicely consistent with current_route
13:38 batman but... i do agree on my $c = $self in the templates. :)
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13:54 sri batman: wait, what?
13:54 purl yeah, seriously
13:55 sri the whole point of documenting both is not to deprecate $self
13:55 batman sri: i just made a very bad joke :(
13:55 batman sorry
13:56 sri oh :(
13:56 sri :)
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13:56 batman https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/v2#blpop <-- wonder if i'm in too deep now...
13:56 batman $work is fun these days: just working on Mojo::Redis2 and Cookieville :)
13:57 batman it's slow, but fun
13:57 sri http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/531/557/a88.jpg
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13:57 batman haha
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13:58 batman i wonder where i can post "i need help" with the Mojo::Redis2 api... doesn't seem like the people using Mojo::Redis is too active in #mojo
13:59 batman i was considering about twitter, but i'm not sure what kind of feedback i can get on that medium
13:59 batman s! about!!
13:59 sri just release it with an EXPERIMENTAL note for a few months
14:00 sri you could try the mailing list
14:00 batman mailingwhat? ;)
14:00 sri mango now has an experimental note for 1.5 years :o
14:00 batman :D
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14:01 batman i think people go blind on the EXPERIMENTAL stamp after some time :)
14:01 sri a least they can't complain
14:01 sri *at
14:01 batman haha
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14:09 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NE969g
14:09 good_news_everyon mojo/master 1b4281e Sebastian Riedel: mention $self in rendering guide
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14:13 btyler batman: re the Mojo::Redis2 api: do I understand correctly that the previous $redis->get("foo", sub { ... }) setup is going away? this is probably my lack of familiarity with IOLoop->delay talking, but it seems nice to me to have a 'compact' non blocking option
14:14 btyler (but, also, I've just used Mojo::Redis for hobby stuff, so take that with a grain of salt)
14:14 batman btyler: that is the plan. ->execute() is NOT the same in Mojo::Redis as in Mojo::Redis2
14:15 batman ->get("foo") doesn't do _anything_ until execute() is called
14:15 btyler right, that I understand
14:15 sri hmmm, there have not been many breaking changes in Mango for quite some time, guess i could release a 1.0
14:15 batman sri: that would be sweeeeet :)
14:15 sri if mongodb makes breaking changes i can always call the next release 2.0 ;p
14:15 batman btyler: ->execute() can take a callback or not (blocking v.s non-blocking)
14:16 btyler oh, perfect, didn't get that from the API sketch, will read more closely
14:16 btyler sounds great
14:17 batman btyler: look here instead: https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/v2
14:18 btyler cool. might suggest adding '->execute(sub {...})' alongside the IOLoop->delay example for non-blocking use (although now that I think about it, obviously '->execute($delay->begin)' is just that)
14:19 batman btyler: https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-redis/tree/v2#execute <-- like that?
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14:21 btyler batman: yep
14:21 cpan_mojo Mango 1.0 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mango-1.0 (depends on Mojolicious)
14:21 sri \o/
14:21 batman sri: you're like the most crazy person i know: just like that, and we got mango 1.0 !
14:21 batman ;)
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14:22 sri after only 1.5 years... how impulsive of me :D
14:23 batman exactly ;)
14:23 batman sri++ # making sh*t stable
14:24 sri http://www.sandraclipea.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tumblr_mdh515vvn51qhv4vyo1_500.png
14:25 batman haha
14:29 sri announcement tweet is good too :) https://twitter.com/kraih/status/481443731477106688
14:32 lb no new features and no deprecations, what kind of .0 release is that
14:33 sri yea :/
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15:01 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v5.09 at cef4a3b: http://git.io/hMW0Cw
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15:02 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/HdoIdw
15:02 good_news_everyon mojo/master 7d4f78d Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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15:02 cpan_mojo Mojolicious 5.09 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-5.09
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15:10 batman https://twitter.com/oss_pl/status/481330089679147008 <-- "@oss_pl: starman - Starman is a BLOCKING preforking Perl PSGI web server"
15:10 batman ;)
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16:31 batman lb: I would say that's a pretty decent .0 release :)
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16:36 john Hello all
16:36 purl It's a crazy world, but hello to you too!
16:37 john How might I go about getting Mojo (prob the lite version) to return no headers, just the response body?
16:39 * r0b3rt wants to understand how purl comes up with it's chat messages
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17:15 lb r0b3rt: bondage and discipline
17:16 r0b3rt :O
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17:22 lb purl: literal hello all
17:22 purl lb: hello all =is= <reply>It's a crazy world, but hello to you too!
17:22 lb purl: literal hello everybody
17:22 purl lb: hello everybody =is= <reply>Hello Dr. Nick!
17:23 lb people with lots of time and a poor sense of priorities over the decades
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17:24 tianon purl: botsnack :D
17:24 purl thanks tianon :)
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18:04 * jberger_ bites purl
18:04 * purl bites jberger_ back
18:04 jberger_ sri++
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19:06 sri it kills me that this stuff is simply disregarded for HTTP/2 because of imaginary deadlines http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2014AprJun/1539.html
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19:21 igorsutton What would be the most straightforward way to have some sort of "synchronized" method with Mojolicious?
19:22 igorsutton I have one resource in my app that should be accessed in some sort of synchronized way (where I could use lock/unlock to block/unblock), but have no idea where to start on a Mojo app.
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20:57 sri http://habrahabr.ru/post/227493/ # i'm sure there's some valid criticism in this, but google translate makes most of it pretty much unreadable :(
20:58 sri one funny thing i noticed is that it mentions the confusing use of $self that got resolved earlier today :D
21:09 btyler sri: are there sections you'd like a nicer version of? I might have some time, I could translate a bit of it. I did http://blogs.perl.org/users/btyler/2013/10/a-metaobject-protocol-for-core-perl-5-translated-from-russian.html -- it isn't pro quality, but probably nicer than google translate
21:10 sri thanks, but nothing i can think of
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21:10 btyler alrighty
21:11 btyler doesn't lead off with a terribly friendly tone, hum
21:12 sri ah, so it's not just google translate :)
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21:16 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9kXChg
21:16 good_news_everyon mojo/master d28b63a Sebastian Riedel: every ojo one-liner is a Mojolicious::Lite application
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22:02 mr-foobar Is Mojo::IOLoop::Delay different from node.js's stream + EventEmitter model ?
22:03 sri apples and oranges
22:03 sri there's Mojo::EventEmitter
22:05 mr-foobar sri: is it a new design pattern or an old-remixed-pattern ?
22:07 sri bit of both, it's similar to async.js/step.js
22:10 mr-foobar sri: sweet. never messed with step.js. I use Q to break promises ;) matt mentioned Delay in his talk, so I was intrigued.
22:10 mr-foobar (mostly doing node.js these days)
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22:29 sri i only like promises when they are natively supported by apis... not when i have to bolt them on
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22:56 cpan_mojo Ado 0.47 by Krasimir Berov - http://metacpan.org/release/BEROV/Ado-0.47 (depends on Mojolicious::Plugin::DSC)
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