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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-07-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:07 Mikey re: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/271 .. i had a DESTROY { } in my app that i was using to clean up some FIFOs i created, Mojo::Server::daemonize() exit()'s the parent, which was cleaning up my FIFOs.  hypnotoad worked fine in -f tho.  i monkey patched it for the time being with a set to a class variable inside the DESTROYing class to tell it not to do those things in the case of a daemonize.
00:08 Mikey i'm happy with my workaround, just thought you should know.
00:12 Mikey i'm very happy having finally made my app able to use hypnotoad's daemonized startup + hot deploy though.  i'm very very impressed by it all.
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07:45 sri hmm, SOCKS support might still happen after all
07:47 sri https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=97533
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08:09 sri ummm
08:10 sri why is mojolicious #1 on hackernews?
08:10 moritz it's #2 now :-)
08:11 sri https://news.ycombinator.com/ (not linking to the thread... since then you couldn't upvote ;p)
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08:21 batman sri: should i just give up: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/655#issuecomment-50304604 ?
08:21 sri batman: yes
08:21 batman done.
08:21 sri although, this incarnation of labels does look better
08:22 batman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YmMNpbFjp0
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08:28 sri #1 again :D
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09:30 * diegok upvoted!
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10:07 odc they're talking about OpenJK too! This is a good day.
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11:51 kablamo I need to resize an image. Am I correct that there is no nonblocking way to do this?  It has to be forked off and done in some kind of worker?
12:05 batman kablamo: i don't do that myself. i use cloudflare instead https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Cloudflare
12:06 batman when did keys(@array) result in (0,1,2,3,4....) ?
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12:20 avenj batman: 5.12 I think
12:20 batman ok.
12:20 avenj ah, perlfunc agrees
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12:29 Akron Mojo passed the 100 upvotes and made it in my HN rss feed the very first time! :)
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12:44 nicomen \o/
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12:58 mattp_ typical HN, something perl gets posted (mojo), and the top comment is someone moaning about the oneliner curl install
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13:12 tomboh mattp_: well, that could easily have been avoided by not gaming the HN voting system
13:13 mattp_ tomboh: eh? not sure what you mean
13:13 tomboh well, presumably someone posted mojo to HN and others voted on that submission
13:14 tomboh then people commented on the submission
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13:27 mishantil Another quick way to avoid comments on the oneliner curl install is explicitly stating (right next to the command) that installing like that is _not_ the sane thing to do, but an example of how it can be done, quick and dirty,
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13:31 Akron @mishantil: As a perlbrew env is recommended, I see no real problem with the current way of stating it.
13:33 mattp_ mishantil: i see no difference in a curl command as root and cpanm foo as root
13:33 mattp_ the makefile.pl can just as easily run some shit
13:33 mattp_ its the same trust problem. just because its over http doesnt make it worse
13:33 mattp_ well, i guess its worse in that someone could hijack the domain or something and insert code, but thats .. a corner case
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13:57 mishantil mattp_: My point is that it is a good thing to very explicitly tell new users that there is a better way to do things and point them in the right direction.
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13:59 mishantil So a small snippet of text with information about other ways to install is informative for clueless new users, and takes some of the arguments away from the people today making a fuzz about curl'ing stuff.
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14:15 batman mattp_: i agree.
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14:42 Mikey grtz on the HN visibility.
14:43 hesco1 Newbie question here.  I am still reading through http://cbonte.github.io/haproxy-dconv/configuration-1.5.html (or any version for that matter) for the very first time.  HAProxy apparently can serve multiple use-cases.  My question is this:  how would I search for tutorials on using haproxy for a virtualized environment where I want lots of docker containers at distinct private IPs to all be accessible at
14:43 hesco1 port 80 on a single public IP?  This is apparently the tool of choice for that application.  But I know little enough about proxies to not know how to construct a useful search for the information I seek.  All guidance appreciated.
14:44 Mikey this isn't the place to ask about HAProxy but i'd be happy to talk to you in a PM
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14:44 hesco1 sorry, I thought I was in the #docker channel on freenode.  Let me try this again.
14:44 Mikey hahaha this is #mojo
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14:45 hesco1 still learning how to effectively use a new irc client
14:47 batman hesco1: http://demo.convos.by :)
14:48 hesco1 Thanks Mikey:  cannot seem to initiate a private channel with you either.  But would appreciate it if you would open one with me.
14:48 Mikey msg'd you
14:48 Mikey and convos is awesome, i am not familiar with weechat..
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14:53 hesco1 @batman, got a log in page.  what was that about?
14:54 batman hesco1: it's an irc client. Doesn't it say..?
14:56 batman Mikey: thanks :) I'm really looking forward to 0.08. Hope me and marcus can get it out on Wednesday...
14:57 batman hesco1: sorry! I meant http://convos.by :)
14:58 batman marcus: I think we should add a custom landing page to demo.convos.by to make it more informative.
14:59 romel hey guys. is it reasonable to use mojolicious::plugin::i18n with a large blocks of text?
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15:00 romel what is the preferable solution for a such task? using template::multilingual or something?
15:01 hesco1 thanks @batman, will check that out sometime.  Looks interesting.
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15:02 Mikey romel: my team and i decided on the i18n plugin because it's so simple.  how large of a block of text?
15:03 romel hundreds of symbols
15:04 romel btw does anyone use DBIx::Class::I18NColumns for a database internationalization ?
15:11 sri it's really funny how folks assume the cpan toolchain is secure
15:12 sri ever notice how IO::Socket::SSL does not ship with perl?
15:12 Mikey yeah there's a general trust of anything people are actually using, that we're not all sidechanneling malware onto their boxes
15:12 Adura The C doesn't stand for comprehensive security audits?
15:15 sri by default cpanm doesn't even use checksums
15:18 Mikey the greybeards were all about checksums + security, the valley neophytes have shrugged off so much that they didn't understand.
15:18 Mikey this problem isn't only perl's its a general open source problem
15:19 sri kind of a dilemma... should i tell people they are wrong and make perl look bad, or let them keep believing we make installation procedures less secure
15:19 Mikey honestly, if i were you, i'd just leave that comment / thread alone.
15:19 Mikey don't make it about perl, they already have said "it's popular these days to..." let it just be.  it's not about mojolicious, it's about that practice.
15:20 sri our oneliner actually just grabs cpanm and uses it to install Mojolicious from cpan :)
15:20 Mikey and it's perfectly reasonable to make it easier for users to get ahold of mojolicious.
15:20 Mikey (and cpanminus at the same time!  bonus!)
15:21 Mikey i believe it's about pros / cons.  the people who say that kind of thing know how to get the software in more secure ways, and those aren't the people that one liner exists for.
15:24 sri think i'll just let it be
15:24 batman +1
15:24 purl 1
15:24 Mikey good choice.
15:24 sri so odd mojolicious made it to hackernews today though
15:24 Mikey i'm very excited by it.
15:25 sri at 164 points no less
15:25 Mikey we're all excited here, to be honest.
15:28 sri batman: the convos logo should also be a long to the main page!
15:28 sri \o\
15:28 sri /o/
15:28 sri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y
15:28 Mikey did you see my comment about the shutdown() hook from last night?
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15:29 Mikey it's not pressing, i spent quite a bit of time in Prefork, Daemon, Server, and Hypnotoad last night.
15:30 sri no clue
15:31 Mikey daemonizing was causing my app's DESTROY method to wipe out stuff that was needed in the fork()'d process, so I monkey patched Mojo::Server::daemonize() to set a class var in my app that causes DESTROY to not run
15:31 Mikey or to no-op.. just not run any meat
15:31 Mikey if there was a shutdown hook, i'd put the cleanup in there instead of in MyApp::DESTROY
15:33 Mikey not pressing, my workaround works.  you just mentioned in the ticket https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/271 that you'd close the issue until someone came up with a reason
15:33 Mikey i don't really wanna reopen it if i'm the only one with the problem (as i've already fixed it)
15:36 sri i don't see a way to make that portable
15:36 mikegrb woohoo, just deployed my first dockerized mojo app \o/
15:36 sri if you have code put it up for a vote
15:37 sri Mikey: why the hell would you monkey patch?
15:38 Mikey i can't think of a way to do it other than what i'm doing.  which is why i am appealing to people smarter than me.  you're more familiar with the internals than I am, so if you say it can't be done I'll take your word for it.
15:38 sri you have $$, modules like Mojo::UserAgent and Mango have been doing fork detection for ages
15:38 Mikey oh shit.. lol.
15:39 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/UserAgent.pm#L48
15:40 sri cleans up keep-alive connections after a fork
15:40 Mikey let me think about this some more.  i don't want to detect that i am a fork.  i want to detect that i am not a fork.
15:41 sri same principle
15:41 purl i heard same principle was used by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Array for example
15:41 Mikey same code needs to work in hypnotoad, morbo, daemon, etc.. so in some cases, when i don't fork, i need DESTROY to run.
15:42 Mikey but in cases when i DO fork, i want DESTROY to not run.
15:42 Mikey hence the monkey patch for the logic that does the fork().. it never gets called in the single process situation.
15:42 sri $app->config(original_pid => $$); sub DESTROY { my $app = shift; return unless $$ eq $app->config('original_pid') }
15:43 Mikey *nod* i get it.
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15:47 sri some funny tweets about mojolicious too
15:47 sri guess my cover is blown! https://twitter.com/hkzm/status/493681906106372096
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16:36 tempire whoa
16:37 tempire 182 points on hackernews
16:39 tempire and the comments didn't devolve into Perl hate
16:39 tempire and someone posted a job opening
16:39 tempire I woke up into a different world.
16:47 tempire sri: +1 on letting it be.
16:47 tempire Stays about mojolicious and not perl
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17:04 marcus finally back home.
17:12 * tempire cheers
17:18 marcus And someone on hackernews thinks convos is their favorite irc client =]
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17:23 sri 194 points \o/
17:24 sri one thing is certain though... we sooooo need a book
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17:28 marcus sri: Well, as long as it's not a packt book...
17:29 sri yea -.-
17:29 sri 11k page views so far btw.
17:30 sri those google analytics real-time stats showed 180 concurrent visitors at times
17:31 sri on a normal day it's 6 concurrent
17:31 neilhwatson I'd buy a Mojo book, but agree no pact.
17:33 jberger_ \o/ #hn!
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17:34 sri "I used to love Perl... it's been about 15 years, though. What a great excuse to learn it again!"
17:34 sri \o/
17:35 * jberger_ is still on vacation, but is back from the complete isolation of the first stop
17:36 marcus Btw loved the val addition to Mojo::DOM
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17:36 sri haha, let me just run these 25 outstanding votes past you!!!
17:37 * jberger_ runs
17:37 * sri chains everyone to the channel!
17:37 * marcus eats some water melon
17:37 * sri !
17:40 sri oh my
17:40 sri 200 points!
17:41 marcus Of course the top rated comment is a pythonist
17:44 jberger_ https://twitter.com/joelaberger/status/493814227883130882
17:45 jberger_ My morning view
17:45 * neilhwatson is jealous
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17:55 sri can confirm... jealous
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17:57 neilhwatson WIth that view, why is wasting time with us Morlocks?
17:58 neilhwatson Enjoy the life of the Eloi.
17:58 jberger_ I'm drinking my coffee and reading the hn comments
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17:58 genio coffee and the beach sounds great about now
17:58 jberger_ Then to hell with you all :-)
17:59 jberger_ I'm just so impressed with the comment thread civility
17:59 neilhwatson No Ruby army at HN?
18:00 genio it's 33.3°C with a "feels like" indicator of 39.4°C.  I could use the beach instead of this oppresive heat wave thing we've got going on
18:00 sri if you want to review something... i think the only noteworthy change during the last week besides Mojo::DOM::val might have been the dependency changes with Pod::Simple 3.09
18:00 jberger_ Just one "people still use perl" guy and even the tone of replies isn't bad
18:01 sri neilhwatson: you're sooo last month, the ruby army is now the node.js or Go army
18:01 neilhwatson My Lawn: http://tinyurl.com/c57bgoc
18:01 jberger_ I like val but i suspect that there are going to be more questions about seeing the value coming as a result
18:01 sri https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mojolicious/OEGEN4wAEz4/FT53iE-wlpQJ
18:02 jberger_ Setting
18:03 jberger_ I'm ok with the pod handler changes
18:03 sri Mojo::DOM focus is on web scraping, not so much rewriting html
18:03 sri so i'd say setting is mostly out of scope
18:03 jberger_ In concept it could be an optional dep
18:03 jberger_ I agree, or of scope, but the question will come anyway
18:03 jberger_ Out
18:04 * sri nods
18:04 sri ooooh, there was another funky change you'll love
18:04 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Reactor.pm#L17
18:04 jberger_ Damn my swipe type foo got worse over the last couple days
18:04 sri yes, we are using IO::Poll::_poll
18:05 jberger_ Haha yeah i saw that in the backlog
18:05 jberger_ Mojo and poe eh?
18:05 sri and Danga::Socket
18:05 purl hmmm... Danga::Socket is pure callbacks, I rather like it
18:05 jberger_ I don't know that one
18:06 sri they made it for perlbal back in the days
18:06 sri you know, for livejournal
18:07 jberger_ Ah
18:07 jberger_ Looks interesting
18:07 jberger_ Will try to read about it later
18:08 jberger_ I see it reference io::epoll
18:08 sri lots of old style and idioms, but also smart design
18:08 jberger_ Wonder if we should investigate that
18:09 jberger_ Non ae performance?
18:09 sri early version of mojolicious might have actually used that
18:10 sri haha https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/v1.0/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm#L27
18:10 sri blast from the past
18:10 jberger_ Ok well I'm off for the day, probably will check in about this time on slow mornings
18:10 sri what a pile of garbage!!!1
18:10 jberger_ :-)
18:11 sri there was even a custom non-blocking resolver
18:11 jberger_ With pluggable reactors it might be feasible again
18:11 sri back then i still thought it could work if you let it run before falling back to the system resolver
18:12 jberger_ Ah
18:12 jberger_ Need libuv for that right?
18:13 sri with libuv we could do that
18:13 sri i believe it has a thread pool that runs the system resolver in the background
18:14 jberger_ I assumed it must be doing that
18:14 sri only way to do it properly i believe
18:16 jberger_ Ok well time to go stomp in the sand o/
18:18 sri don't let the venomous centipedes bite you o/
18:18 sri ...if there's something i learned from magnum pi it's that you have to watch out for those buggers!
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19:02 sri well shit
19:03 sri looks like the pastie with the SOCKS patch got deleted somehow and i forgot to keep a copy
19:03 sri just as the IO::Socket::SOCKS maintainer adds the feature i needed... https://github.com/olegwtf/p5-IO-Socket-Socks/commit/8cf60b12bfc7236d14adc09a2df746e1778efcbe
19:05 sri much older pasties are still there... just not that one
19:06 sri maybe someone is trying to tell me to let this SOCKS thing go
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19:48 batman sri: i didn't get the part about the convos logo. Could you say explain it again?
19:48 sri on the login page, it's not clickable
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19:49 batman Where should it bring you?
19:50 batman To www.convos.by..?
19:58 marty just wondering... has anyone used http://apiary.io ?
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20:55 sri oh well, rewriting the SOCKS patch from memory wasn't too bad
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20:59 sri the Mojo::IOLoop::Client part works flawless now, so transparent SOCKS support would be possible
21:00 stephan48 sri: awesome!
21:01 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7fff87338ea62c72a8ba # that part would look something like this
21:02 sri i'm starting to care quite a bit about TOR these days... so i'm +1-ish on native socks5 support now
21:03 sri s/TOR/Tor/
21:04 sri the maintainer of IO::Socket::SOCKS seems pretty responsive and mojolicious friendly, so i'm not too worried about relying on it
21:05 sri not sure how to test the whole thing yet though
21:05 stephan48 okey
21:06 stephan48 mh.
21:06 sri batman, jberger, tempire, marcus, crab: the SOCKS thing is getting pretty real now, so i'd like to hear how you feel about it
21:07 sri ultimately the api exposed to our users would be a bunch of Mojo::IOLoop::Client options (as visible in the patch above), and support for socks:// addresses for proxy settings
21:08 sri only aiming for socks5, since i really don't care about the versions that can't handle domains
21:09 sri HTTP_PROXY=socks://sri:secr3t@127.0.0.1:9050 perl -Mojo -E 'say g("mojolicio.us")->body'
21:09 stephan48 yea makes sense
21:10 sri that's basically how you'd use it with tor
21:11 stephan48 for testing.... automated tests might be tricky but maybe you could deliver a manual test case? which is called if the user sets the http_proxy variable to a socks proxy and some other safeguard env?
21:11 stephan48 like so many other modules do for f.e. special DBM testing
21:12 stephan48 the test case then would run certain tests over the provided socks server... if the server is not ok, thats not the problem of the testcase to figure out....
21:12 stephan48 (a socks proxy could also be easily created via ssh
21:12 stephan48 (a socks proxy could also be easily created via ssh's -D option or puttys dynamic tunnel feature)
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21:19 sri totally out of the question
21:20 sri i want at least a fake server test like this https://github.com/olegwtf/p5-IO-Socket-Socks/blob/master/examples/server5.pl
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21:43 marcus I like having SOCKS support. Wonder if we could get osx system settings for proxy automatically somehow?
21:44 tianon that sounds like a can of worms that might be better suited to some kind of plugin :)
21:55 sri worked out so well supporting bonjour -.-
21:55 sri anyway... i've got basic SOCKS5 working now... just did my first HTTPS request to amazon through Tor
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22:03 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7cd45b5399922daf695e # basic SOCKS infrastructure in place
22:03 sri just needs proper tests with fake server and authentication
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23:03 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/656 # ze trolls have arrived \o/
23:05 tianon hahaha, love love love the response
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23:27 tianon hah, and he comes back with more snark
23:33 sri hahaha, he even has sockpuppet accounts
23:34 tianon that summary was rofl
23:34 tianon had to share that with my coworkers
23:35 sri i'm torn between letting it play out and locking the thread and deleting everything after my response
23:36 preaction it seems more like it got posted to some IRC channel or twitter feed and is now going to be jumped on by everyone who has an opinion on the internet
23:38 preaction i'm liking github's push updates. i'm not liking the direction the conversation is going already...
23:39 sri also a possibility
23:40 sri now i'm torn between asking for memes and explaining that it really doesn't matter because cpan as a whole is insecure
23:41 sri who knows, if an angry mob catches on to that maybe something will change in the toolchain
23:41 * sri shrugs
23:42 preaction nudging them in that direction might help ;)
23:42 preaction i thought there was a push a bit back about signing uploads. there's apparently a CHECKSUMS file in every author's dir, not sure if that gets checked
23:42 sri not sure, little too much exposure and it might harm perl
23:43 sri nope, checksums are ignored by default
23:43 sri same for signatures actually
23:43 preaction fun!
23:43 sri you have to ask cpanm to verify
23:43 sri and then there's the lack of https thing
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23:44 sri oh great... now they pull in actual users
23:45 sri looks like disclosure time
23:45 tianon I don't ever curl mojolicious directly - I instead curl cpanm and then use it to install Mojo #sosecure #notatallwhatthatscriptdoes
23:45 preaction rofl. put it on ycombinator
23:45 preaction yeah. you might need to get ahead of this one... ffs...
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