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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-08-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:18 sri anonymous gist seems easy
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00:23 sri marcus: it's strange, but the 99+ after reopening convos kinda works for me
00:24 sri that it keeps on running afterwards doesn't bother my badge anxiety anymore
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01:03 sri hmmmm
01:03 sri tempted to add Mojo::Date::to_words
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01:13 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec2059fcf4d591329434
01:13 sri my only worry would be i18n
01:19 * sri pokes jberger, marcus, batman, crab and tempire
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01:37 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/93ebcf9144e54933130c # little more complete
01:39 sri would be easy to wrap in rails-ish helpers like distance_of_time and distance_of_time_from_now, which would be redefined by plugins with i18n support
01:39 sri s/would/could then/
01:41 sri was just looking at the planet perl iron man site... and those ugly timestamps... and thought we really should be encouraging cutesy dates
01:43 sri perhaps it's overkill for core, but maybe it's just on the edge of things we can provide
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01:52 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4751eade988e5c6b1749 # with helpers
01:52 sri only thing missing is a few tests
02:02 jberger seems like prime real estate for a plugin
02:02 jberger but i dont see how it helps core
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02:08 sri maybe i'm wrong... but i've just been looking around for perl projects that pay a little attention to this stuff... and found none
02:09 sri point is to encourage good looking apps
02:10 sri inspiration is padrino
02:11 jberger sri: I like encouraging good things, but I thought we have been pretty consistent about core things being included if useful for core
02:12 sri or high level features
02:12 jberger I'm ok if we start branching into including the "nice to have"s
02:12 sri this would be a helper
02:13 jberger put it another way, we have had utility functions that once they were no longer needed for core we removed them, if we add some "nice to have"s there removal considerations must be different then
02:13 jberger s/there/their/
02:14 sri those were on the mojo layer i believe
02:14 jberger ah, could be
02:14 jberger that would be an important distinction
02:14 jberger on a totally different topic, does anyone have a video for jnthn's p6 talk at mojoconf?
02:15 jberger I think it would make a nice addition to ovid's bpo post
02:17 sri oh well, i'll stop working on the patch and wait for more opinions
02:17 jberger sri: you know, I don't think you have any plugins on cpan :-P
02:18 jberger I guess Minion contains a plugin
02:18 sri yea i don't do small plugins
02:18 sri if it doesn't go into core i'll throw it away
02:18 sri anyway, this is how far i got https://gist.github.com/anonymous/363bbdfbf18ee10f967f
02:19 sri jberger, batman, crab, marcus, tempire: up to you what happens with it
02:20 sri may seem like a small decision, but i believe this will have lasting effect on where we draw the line with how far we are willing to go in the future
02:20 jberger that's kinda what I was saying too
02:20 jberger I'm ok going there, but it moves that line
02:21 sri with going full-stack or not
02:22 jberger jnthn's supplies talk did more to make me want p6 than all of the other discussion about it ever did
02:25 jberger adding this level of helper is consistent with the changes we made just before and after 5.0
02:25 sri jberger: you could say delays are in the same category
02:25 jberger specifically the delay helper
02:26 jberger btw, I'm dreaming up something along those lines too
02:28 jberger something like "helper view_cb_args => sub { return sub { shift; print Dumper(\@_) } };"
02:29 jberger so that using the eval command you can easily call non-blocking functions
02:30 jberger ./myapp.pl eval 'app->do_nb_thing("arg", "arg", app->view_cb_args)'
02:31 jberger actually when using Dumper I don't mind having the invocant included
02:32 jberger I usually use DDP and as such the dump of the invocant is kinda annoying
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02:38 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih created time_in_words (+1 new commit): http://git.io/KdwWmA
02:38 good_news_everyon mojo/time_in_words 89b101f Sebastian Riedel: added time_in_words helper
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02:38 sri jberger, batman, crab, marcus, tempire: for easier reading, everything is in the branch
02:41 jberger oh noes: Mojolicious::Plugin::ConsoleLogger does not install anymore!
02:44 jberger tempire, can haz fix?
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02:48 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to time_in_words: http://git.io/zAMPhA
02:48 good_news_everyon mojo/time_in_words 45b9dd3 Sebastian Riedel: added example for time_in_words helper
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02:49 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/compare/time_in_words
02:57 tempire hmm
02:58 tempire I use Time::Duration all the time for that.
02:58 tempire Love it.
02:58 tempire But.
02:58 tempire The line...
02:59 * tempire considers
03:02 tempire It's so small.
03:02 tempire I'm a +1 on the Mojo::Date to_words
03:03 sri i'm asking the question on the list too https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/iSgYdKbkpU8
03:24 jberger don't panic
03:24 purl PANIC!!!
03:27 * jberger slaps purl with a fish
03:27 * purl slaps jberger with comically large fish in return
03:33 * sri claps
03:40 GabrielVieira just replied
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03:56 sri tried to put my motivation into words https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mojolicious/iSgYdKbkpU8/J9TjJU8esYwJ
03:56 sri not sure if it worked
04:06 GabrielVieira it did
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04:21 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to time_in_words: http://git.io/JBSp_g
04:21 good_news_everyon mojo/time_in_words 0914bba Sebastian Riedel: better description for to_words
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06:09 marcus sri: my main problem is that I usually think relative dates are better implemented on the client side, for cacheability.
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06:32 batman *convos restart*
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06:36 firnsy doesn't look like sri survived the restart :o
06:37 batman marcus, sri: it's not that i'm going to argue that we should keep the badge increase on the javascript side, it's just that someone has to implement it
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06:38 marcus batman: omg you killed sri :-o
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06:49 batman marcus: i think it's because we're too many on the same server, so it takes time for all to reconnect
06:49 marcus batman: yeah, I had that problem with my Nordaaker convos instance too.
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06:51 batman not sure when to restart either... there's always someone who's active
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06:56 batman marcus: wonder if we could come of with a better reconnect timer...
06:56 batman maybe mst has some input on that ^
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07:06 * batman resurrected sri
07:06 batman marcus: we got a bug with reconnect :(
07:06 batman sri: on the up side, you can /kick now ;)
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07:07 batman i agree with marcus on to_words()
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07:07 batman going to do it client side in convos, when we change to reactjs (i think)
07:12 batman marcus: it sucks that assetpack doesn't do a recursive scan on included sass files when figuring out the checksum
07:13 batman that's why i got that stupid timestamp in public/sass/convos.scss
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07:13 batman i'm considering adding support for $app->asset("foo.css" => "bar.scss", { md5_from => ["..."] });
07:14 batman or just check the top level sass file for @include
07:14 batman not sure which is best...
07:14 marcus batman: grepping for @include seems reasonable
07:14 batman s/@include/@import/
07:14 marcus I think multi-level @includes are rare.
07:15 batman that's not true.
07:15 marcus hmm, can we make sass output all it's includes somehow?
07:15 batman no, because then you require "sass" executable
07:16 batman one of the changes i did was to only require sass, coffee, lessc executables on the development side
07:18 marcus oh right.. hmm
07:19 batman https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/issues/25
07:20 batman sri: do you think all the sass, less, preprocessors should be classes? like Mojolicious::Plugin::AssetPack::Preprocessor::Sass
07:20 batman that way i could probably do more sophisticated things pr. file, like calculating the checksum
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07:31 marcus batman: yeah, maybe. That way people could add their own preprocessors too?
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07:32 batman they already can, but only for manipulating $$text, not calculating the checksum
07:32 batman $$text = the data inside the asset
07:33 batman here is an example for a preprocessor to point o CDN font files: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/blob/master/t/example-expand-src-url.t
07:33 batman s/ o / to /
07:36 batman sri: about original_remote_address()... how about client_address() ?
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08:10 marcus batman: I meant as cpan modules.
08:11 batman not quite sure how to do that.. the cpan modules need to register in assetpack somehow...
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09:41 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-BootstrapPagination 0.11 by DOKECHIN - http://metacpan.org/release/DOKECHIN/Mojolicious-Plugin-BootstrapPagination-0.11
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09:53 cpan_mojo Toadfarm 0.45 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Toadfarm-0.45 (depends on Mojolicious)
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12:43 sri batman: client_address makes the least sense
12:43 batman ok
12:44 batman sri: will you make a plugin of time_in_words?
12:44 sri no
12:45 batman want me to make one?
12:46 sri don't care anymore
12:46 batman ok.
12:47 sri my motivation was specifically to have it in core
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12:51 sri and i do not believe it should be a plugin, if someone puts it on cpan it should be a normal module
13:00 batman makes sense
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13:09 batman https://speakerdeck.com/addyosmani/javascript-memory-management-masterclass # not sure if this is interesting...
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14:02 batman sri: have you looked at this: https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos/issues/149 ?
14:09 sri batman: yes, and i said it looks fine
14:09 batman nice
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14:10 * sri is waiting for the dotted red line ;p
14:11 batman me too. care to help out? :)
14:11 sri nope, i prefer to just complain :)
14:11 batman :D
14:12 batman noticed the grey boxes are gone?
14:12 sri yea, looks nice
14:12 batman cool
14:13 sri sucks that the emoji chrome extensions has such a bad reputation
14:13 sri apparently it added ads for some time...
14:14 batman chromoji?
14:14 sri ye
14:15 batman oh. didn't know :/
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14:19 jberger sri: i can't figure out how to create a capped collection from mango :/
14:20 sri there's a test, and minion does it too
14:20 jberger Also the addition of the await thingy was a shock, my "listen forever"  pattern was suddenly spinning a lot!
14:20 * jberger looks
14:22 sri in fact, minion uses mongodb pub/sub to wake up workers now
14:24 jberger doh! I was trying to use db->command(...)
14:28 sri btw. i still would like a shorter name for original_remote_address
14:30 * jberger made a golf leaderboard app: https://gist.github.com/jberger/242e60118983fa4331c8
14:31 jberger completely nonblocking and websocket
14:31 jberger only hosts one game (for now), but that's all I need today :-)
14:33 sri you're not using the delay helper
14:33 HtbaaPi with Mojolicious::Plugin::Mail does anyone know if it's possible to prevent encoding of the subject line?
14:33 jberger I am, in the controller routes
14:33 HtbaaPi Probably a MIME::Lite setting, but I can't seem to find it
14:34 HtbaaPi I need the subject line to be plain text (usecase: sending mails to a faxservice, they can't parse e-mail properly)
14:34 jberger I thought MIME::Lite was passe at this point
14:35 HtbaaPi the subject line now is Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?MTIzNDU=?= and I need it to be Subject: 12345
14:35 HtbaaPi don't know, just using the Mail plugin :)
14:41 * sri wonders what the state of the art mail modules for perl are, and if there's a plugin for those
14:42 HtbaaPi I've used Email::Sender in the past and it seems to be well supported still
14:42 sri mail is such an important topic, perhaps a plugin maintained by a core dev would be a good idea
14:42 jberger I believe that HtbaaPi is right
14:42 jberger https://metacpan.org/pod/Email::Sender
14:43 batman jberger: why don't you use delay() inside the helper?
14:43 HtbaaPi quite a bit of dependencies as well. And Moo... Not sure how heavy Moo is, but I try to stay away from Moose stuff
14:43 jberger I've seen RBJS give talks about it lately
14:43 * jberger trusts RJBS
14:43 jberger batman: I want a different error callback
14:43 batman ok
14:43 HtbaaPi might've changed now though. last time I used Moose was during a Catalyst project several years ago. Really didn't like the startup time
14:43 sri Moo is quite minimalistic, just the fatal warnings thing that annoys me
14:44 jberger Moo is much lighter, and fatal warnings is going away
14:44 jberger mst relented
14:44 batman i like M::P::Mail
14:44 batman use it at work and side projects
14:44 sri someone please make an Email::Sender plugin :)
14:44 batman but i guess i got really basic needs...
14:45 jberger oh good, Email::Sender has no Moose dep at all: https://widgets.stratopan.com/wheel?q=Email-Sender-1.300012&fs=1
14:46 jberger I could even go as far as to say, that could be a good core module with an optional dep in order to load
14:47 mst right. we ported everything downstream of it while porting it to Moo
14:47 jberger mst += 2
14:47 HtbaaPi Email::Sender seems to be lacking some documentation. The QuickStart directs you to the Manual, which is empty and directs you to the Quickstart
14:47 mst jberger: I still think that, for newbies, getting fatal warnings by default unless they specifically change it isn't a bad thing
14:47 mst but I'm totally willing to accept that at this point 'use Moo;' shouldn't be -how- they get them
14:48 jberger mst: I'm not going to argue for most things, but I think Moo has become so fundamental, I'm glad it has gone this way
14:48 jberger <3 Moo
14:48 sri HtbaaPi: looks fine to me https://metacpan.org/pod/Email::Sender::Manual::QuickStart
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14:50 HtbaaPi sri: an important feature I need is sending attachments. I don't see that in the quickstart or manual
14:51 sri some sort of email support in core would be nice, but sadly i'm no expert on the topic
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14:53 HtbaaPi I need to get going anyway. Will try to sort the encoding thing with the service provider tomorrow. Shame on them for having a bad e-mail implementation :)
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15:58 btyler sri: re the 'full stack' thread, I think it's worth considering that the mojolicious community might be primarily populated by people who like the current stance -- people with more full-stack preferences probably went elsewhere
16:05 batman sri: demo.convos.by is running a superexperimental branch now, which tries to fix the duplicate redline...
16:05 batman sri: feedback is appreciated
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16:14 dparry_ hi, is there a way to pass params into a start_app call? (I see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17594352/how-to-pass-arguments-from-an-plack-app-to-an-mojolicious-app-enabled-in-builder leading to a dead end).
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16:29 sri batman: seems to be working \o/
16:29 batman cool. no tests, and it's still working :)
16:29 batman oh. no, wait.. that actually has tests
16:30 batman then i guess it's fine :)
16:31 sri dparry_: that %ENV hack does not work in newer versions of perl
16:34 dparry_ I'm finding that Mojo::Home detect works as I expect in the initial script (called from morbo), but after the start_app, the Mojo::Home returns the path to the morbo executable...
16:35 dparry_ so I figure I have two options, configure an absolute path, or pass the working detection path in to the app somehow...
16:36 sri i don't think we actually have that many PSGI users, even less using middleware hacks... so odds are some stuff won't work
16:36 sri all you can do is a) use less hacks, or b) send patches with test cases
16:37 dparry_ I'm not actually using PSGI etc... I merely want a reliable way of detecting the mojo home...
16:38 dparry_ so I can use relative paths to a state dir in a config file...
16:38 sri that's not what you asked...
16:38 dparry_ right :)
16:39 dparry_ sorry
16:39 dparry_ the basic issue is Mojo Home detect is different before and after calling start_app
16:40 dparry_ I want to use it before as I fork a bunch of worker threads prior to spinning up the app
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16:51 dparry_ ah, turns out by pushing the home detect into startup block rather than deeper in a sub class it gives me the value I want, so that works for me :)
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16:59 * batman is excited about https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos/issues/121 :)
16:59 batman but now i need to make dinner...
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18:10 jzawodn I'm looking at adding a fd to Mojo's even loop so that I can watch for readability on that fd.  It seems the way to do that is using Mojo::Recactor's io() method or perhaps the watch() method... yes?
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19:00 marcus jzawodn: I think you want  reacto->io like in the Mojo::IOLoop synopsis.
19:01 marcus reactor even
19:01 marcus hrm, I give up on atom. It just feels too slow for me.
19:02 jzawodn marcus: nod... going that way.  I found this yesterday was was all excited: https://github.com/kostya-ten/Mojolicious-Plugin-Mysql
19:02 crab so now i have to get an MRI and lots of blood tests. gah.
19:02 jzawodn then I saw the implementation :-(
19:03 marcus jzawodn: is it very russian? :)
19:03 marcus jzawodn: I also believe batman has been looking into a naive implementation of that.
19:03 jzawodn marcus: the code isn't bad but the sleep(0.01) in a loop to check for readiness sucks
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19:04 marcus jzawodn: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojo-sql is batman's playground. Might be able to merge the two into a franken-sql? :)
19:05 jzawodn marcus: ah, interesting.  I'll have a look
19:06 sri first rule of non-blocking sql... it sucks
19:07 sri only DBI bindings are properly mantained, but DBI is bad at non-blocking...
19:07 jzawodn sigh, it's true
19:07 jzawodn I'm going to use the DBD::mysql async stuff not because it's perfect but because it's a lot closer than everything else I've tried
19:08 batman marcus: "naive"..? it's not naive, it's just not done https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojo-sql
19:09 marcus batman: I meant as in you're using the pure perl mysql parser?
19:09 sri well, it exposes mysql_fd apparently, so a Mojo::IOLoop binding shouldn't be too hard, similar to DBD::Pg
19:09 batman yes. for now.
19:09 batman but it should be pluggable, like we do in Mojo::Redis (2)
19:09 jzawodn sri: that's the road I'm going down, yeah
19:10 marcus batman: I think if you're aiming for production performance, you'll need to use DBD::mysql
19:10 marcus batman: I didn't mean it as an insult, fwiw.
19:10 batman my module will never be using DBD, unless DBD is...rewritten into something i can fully hook into non-blocking
19:11 batman but...i will probably never complete mojo-sql... too much other things to work on :/
19:11 batman like red lines and stuff ;)
19:12 * batman is off *tv time*
19:27 sri red line seems to work great now
19:27 sri now it just needs to be dotted and reach the edge of the window :)
19:29 sri odd how emoji work fine with chrome on android
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19:52 spidamoo hi all
19:53 spidamoo can anyone help me please?
19:53 spidamoo i got a really weird bug
19:53 spidamoo it's so stupid that it must be my own fault
19:53 spidamoo but i triple checked everything in my really simple app
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19:58 marcus purl: ask to ask?
19:58 purl Don't ask to ask or ask if there are any users of X around, people often don't respond to that because they've used X but maybe not the same features as you. Instead, skip straight to your question + pastebot link and if somebody knows they'll probably try and help or if you don't get a response straight away, hang about - people may be working or asleep right now.
20:01 spidamoo pretty fair
20:01 spidamoo but i found something i havent checked yet =)
20:01 spidamoo maybe it's me after all
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20:11 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/d-KLrw
20:11 good_news_everyon mojo/master 898a5dc Sebastian Riedel: no need to cache result
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21:20 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-AttributeMaker 0.03 by HAMMER - http://metacpan.org/release/HAMMER/Mojolicious-Plugin-AttributeMaker-0.03
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22:09 cpan_mojo Ado 0.59 by Krasimir Berov - http://metacpan.org/release/BEROV/Ado-0.59 (depends on Mojolicious::Plugin::DSC)
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23:20 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/7kxQdQ
23:20 good_news_everyon mojo/master 6b70a6e Sebastian Riedel: fixed bug where Mojolicious::Commands would change @ARGV when loaded
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23:20 sri tricky problem
23:20 sri think the best we can do is just not modify @ARGV
23:22 sri big problem is we may need MOJO_MODE and MOJO_HOME before the command system even starts
23:26 * jzawodn got lame proof-of-concept MySQL async w/Mojo::IOLoop working... next up, a connection pool
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23:34 radixo Hello guys.. I am with an error i can't solve.. the message is: Can't use string ("Michelangelo::Controller::Attrib"...) as a HASH ref while "strict refs" in use at (eval 204) line 4.
23:34 radixo someone knows what does it means??
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