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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-09-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sri i think the sensible thing to do might be to activate certain features + feature ':5.latest' on the latest perl release and use that as the base for all docs
00:01 jberger sri: but again, that's why I worry about encouraging an experimental perl feature
00:01 jberger what if we encourage it and then it gets materially changed in 5.22, wont all the users who adopted it be pissed?
00:01 sri we wouldn't be encouraging everything it can do
00:01 sri just the stuff that 100% won't change
00:01 jberger yeah, the basic syntax is pretty much set
00:02 jberger sub ($x, $y=return $x) { # hehehe }
00:02 sri yea, that's silly
00:04 sri postderef might turn out to be a very important feature too, considering how much many people hate circumfix deref
00:04 sri i really would want to use it in docs, even if i can't use it in the core code yet
00:07 sri so much talk, so little results :/
00:07 jberger I wonder what kind of ruckus we could create if we announced that the next stable Mojo after p5p released a non-experimental signatures would bump to that version?
00:16 sri it costs us the users that have to deploy on older perl versions, but also makes us look extremely modern compared to everything else
00:16 sri realistically, it would prolly kill mojolicious as a mainstream framework
00:16 sri get us back to outlaw status from the past
00:20 cpan_mojo Ado 0.64 by Krasimir Berov - http://metacpan.org/release/BEROV/Ado-0.64 (depends on Mojolicious::Plugin::SemanticUI)
00:21 sri as depressing as it may be... the only thing i believe we can do is to update some documentation with boilerplate like this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e34203258254c9925f77
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00:31 sri well, shit
00:31 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/28dd60678081739d2899
00:31 sri basically, we are screwed
00:35 sri our only hope is that someone releases a good enough polyfill for any new feature we might want to use
00:36 sri otherwise those features might as well not exist
00:37 jberger I would mostly want to see us competing for node.js users anyway
00:41 * jberger proposes:
00:41 jberger Mojotastic
00:41 jberger a second web framework built on the Mojo platform
00:42 jberger possibly even distributed in the same dist
00:42 jberger (Mojolicious isn't actually that big)
00:43 * jberger runs
00:45 preaction is that the "backwards compatible" one? or the "wild, scary wilderness" one?
00:52 sri jberger: maybe you should start a thread on p5p
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00:55 sri wow, that would make postgresql quite fun to use https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/HTTP_API
00:55 sri the current wire protocol is a mostrosity
00:56 preaction wow, that would be awesome
00:57 sri haha, and there are Link headers again
01:03 preaction i see the "session" thing and think "cookies"
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02:09 sri hmm... Mojo::EventEmitter::on returning the callback as the id for the subscriber is not very nice for leaks
02:11 sri but i guess nobody cares
02:15 jberger sri: ?
02:16 sri as in, it's not really a problem
02:24 sri maybe the frontpage example should be using the "use 5.20.0; use experimental 'signatures';" boilerplate
02:26 sri maybe with a clever description below it
02:29 sri why the hell not, changing it back takes like 30 seconds if it confuses people lo
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02:35 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/y7xPvw
02:35 good_news_everyon mojo/master 033740f Sebastian Riedel: show subroutine signatures
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02:35 sri well, the highlighting is very colorful :D
02:36 sri http://mojolicio.us/
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03:25 sri i kinda like the idea that the frontpage example is all bledding edge
03:25 sri s/dd/ed/
03:35 jberger sri: sounds like a reason for a tweet at least
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03:40 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/FkakCg
03:40 good_news_everyon mojo/master 7ce067b Sebastian Riedel: change order of imports
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03:41 jberger sri: my little tinkering project for the weekend: https://gist.github.com/jberger/5224c5c09ee56eeaa99e
03:43 sri jberger: move the use experimental below the use Mojolicious::Lite :)
03:43 sri it reactivates the experimental warning
03:43 * sri just stumbled over that
03:44 jberger hmmm
03:44 sri you know, postderef is really growing on me
03:45 sri good riddance circumfix deref!
03:45 jberger \o/
03:45 jberger \o\
03:45 jberger /o/
03:45 sri \o\
03:45 sri /o/
03:45 jberger {o}
03:45 jberger oO
03:46 sri ~o~
03:46 jberger anyway, a little spit and polish on that an you have a personal streaming music player
03:47 jberger I'm not sure if it is truly streaming at this point, but I know it can be
03:49 sri it is
03:49 jberger sweet
03:49 sri static streams from files through Mojo::Asset::File and supports range requests
03:50 jberger that I knew, I wasn't sure if the audio tag did ranges by default, though I was hoping so
03:50 jberger anyway, start this puppy on your home computer, listen to your music on all your devices
03:51 jberger might do a simple auth, you know, for reasons
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04:00 jberger I wish I liked the file detection in AudioFile::Find better
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04:20 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/r8XMAw
04:20 good_news_everyon mojo/master fe42242 Sebastian Riedel: better description for example
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06:29 marcus I still think post-deref is pretty darn ugly :-/
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10:01 berov Something is wrong with PAUSE.
10:02 berov uploaded a file half an hour ago and it even does not appear in my uploaded files list
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13:00 sri marcus: @{$foo->{bar}} vs $foo->{bar}->@*
13:00 sri you have to put it into context
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13:39 * sri likes the super modern example app on http://mojolicio.us/
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14:00 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to signatures: http://git.io/KlQV4Q
14:00 good_news_everyon mojo/signatures 6d534e6 Sebastian Riedel: use CPAN module for older versions of Perl
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14:00 sri this actually works for normal scripts
14:00 sri only problem is one-liners
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14:17 Akron Wouldn't it be nice to have these features as a flag in Mojo::Base? like "-edge"? "use Mojolicious::Lite -edge"?
14:18 Akron Of course it then should die meaningful if not available ...
14:19 sri i kinda want to agree, but it seems counter productive
14:20 sri a working fallback for signatures everywhere would be better for us imo
14:20 Akron We should hack a pureperl sourcefilter and bundle it! ;)
14:21 sri and die meaningful seems impossible, since every new major perl version would add new features we want
14:21 Akron Unfortunately that's the opposite of fun.
14:21 Akron Hm.
14:21 sri i would be totally fine with a source filter at this point
14:22 sri no need to bundle it though, just require it on demand (hard dep on anything before Perl 5.20.0)
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15:12 * sri can't believe tempire doesn't like the new frontpage example
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19:41 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/P71L8Q
19:41 good_news_everyon mojo/master f25efce Sebastian Riedel: updated Makefile.PL for version 2 of the CPAN distribution metadata specification
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20:00 jberger anyone have any thoughts about what I could name my little player there?
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20:04 nicomen mojito
20:07 berov jberger: Orpheus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus
20:09 jberger berov: that's so good I assumed it would be taken, and it is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.opensilk.music&hl=en
20:09 berov Actually orpheus is thracian, but anyway
20:09 jberger not that I'm going to distribute it on playstore, but ya know
20:09 berov uh :)
20:10 berov then ... morheus ;)
20:10 berov morpheus
20:10 purl i think morpheus is fighting neo! or a pretty nice p2p thingy at http://www.musiccity.com or dead, didn't pay their bills, now using gnutella or now should be replaced with gnucleus or sold their customer email database, congrats :)
20:10 Nei heh
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20:33 jberger AudioFile::Find is so close to what I want, and yet, not close enough
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20:45 sri mojotunes
20:45 jberger sri: nice
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21:03 tempire I'd be ok with the example of "use 5.20.0" and "use experimental" was not there.
21:03 tempire Or if that was hidden in within Mojolicious
21:04 tempire You know, there's a darned good bet that jamadam is going to make it work with 5.8 regardless.
21:04 tempire Guess we can't depend on that, though.
21:04 jberger tempire: I disagree strongly that mojolicious should hide the use of experimental features
21:04 tempire Why
21:04 tempire Did I catch some talk about a polyfill?
21:05 jberger it doesn't seem that the polyfill works all that well
21:05 tempire The current example prevents easy copy & paste in the majority of all Perl installations.
21:05 tempire That's why I hate it.
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21:05 tempire Especially because I support learning Mojolicious first, instead of Perl, then Mojolicious.
21:05 tempire What is 5.20?
21:05 purl i think 5.20 is the subject of obra's talk about future directions
21:05 tempire Who cares.
21:05 purl not me
21:05 tempire purl++
21:06 jberger sri is keen to show off signatures
21:06 tempire extra overhead
21:06 sri yea, i believe in showing real modern perl on the frontpage, even if we can't in the docs
21:08 sri maybe their browser doesn't support websockets either
21:10 sri the hello world/i heart mojo is for the cut n paste beginners, the example below to show off what perl can do
21:11 sri at some point we will support signatures everywhere, but for now we just can't
21:13 sri there is no right or wrong here, the question is which example gets more people interested in perl and mojolicious
21:14 sri the ugly one that works everywhere, or the pretty one showing off bleeding edge features
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21:53 sri well, i've opened a thread on the list about it https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/iHhrF1fNg6Y
22:03 jberger sri: wasn't there some discussion about whether installable scripts should use env perl?
22:03 jberger http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Growing#Script
22:04 sri there's an open issue still i believe
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22:17 * sri reads more and more about hapi.js
22:18 sri http://nodejsreactions.tumblr.com/post/94827924315/hapi-js
22:18 jberger http://media.tumblr.com/7c828dd2bb44f0f48e22e9a350f2c112/tumblr_n6hqg5gtX61s373hwo1_500.gif
22:18 jberger ha! beat you!
22:20 sri ┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻
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22:23 jberger hehe, I hadn't seen tobyink's sig before
22:23 jberger use Moops; class Cow :rw { has name => (default => 'Ermintrude') }; say Cow->new->name
22:31 * jberger switches from AudioFile::Find to AudioFile::Info + File::Next
22:37 sri hmm
22:38 sri i guess the get command could be a little smarter about differentiating between json and xml/html by ignoring the content-type and just making the decision based on the selector
22:38 sri json pointers are an empty string or start with a slash
22:39 sri both are invalid css selectors i believe
22:46 sri interesting side effect
22:47 sri mojo get mojolicio.us | mojo get - 'h1, h2, h3'
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22:47 sri i have a patch to make that work
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23:11 sri hmm, maybe it makes things a little too complicated
23:12 sri was thinking it might be fun to do "cat foo.html | mojo get - 'div > a'"
23:14 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/aa857999855a3267a942
23:14 sri for future reference, not gonna apply it
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23:19 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/QFLQPQ
23:19 good_news_everyon mojo/master 49f505b Sebastian Riedel: improved get command to not depend on Content-Type headers for differentiating between JSON and HTML/XML
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23:28 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rP3cAA
23:28 good_news_everyon mojo/master 9901f89 Sebastian Riedel: use less loops
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