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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-10-18

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Time Nick Message
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03:06 jberger http://perltricks.com/article/120/2014/10/16/How-to-test-Perl-roles-without-creating-test-classes
03:07 jberger ^^ using signatures in tutorial code, just because!
03:08 preaction not sure i like the trick there though
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03:37 jberger yeah, not my favorite article of his
03:38 jberger but it is in line with our desire to use signatures prominently
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04:58 peterstigler .
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07:18 buu Hey, anyone know why mojo-dom is having trouble parsing a file that starts with   1 <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" version="XHTML+RDFa 1.0" dir="ltr"
07:19 buu Nevermind, operator error
07:19 buu (why does slurp change behaviour in list context? Seriously..)
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08:35 batman marcus, sri: what do you think about less spacing between avatar and window border?
08:40 camelo joined #mojo
08:40 camelo hi
08:40 purl what's up, camelo.
08:41 bc547 I'm trying to serve some static file from a read-only filesystem and get this error: [error] Can't open file "/opt/coderepo/RefDemo/defaults/public/css/nsimplegrid.css": Read-only file system at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.20.1/Mojolicious/Static.pm line 98.
08:42 camelo purl: everything fine, thanks
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08:52 bc547 I assume Mojo::Asset::file tries to open the file in read/write mode... which is not possible.
08:52 bc547 s/f/F/
08:58 bc547 The error is cause by line 20 in Mojo/Asset/File.pm : $handle->open($path, -w _ ? O_APPEND | O_RDWR : O_RDONLY) ... what's _ in '-w _'?
09:09 batman bc547: _ is the last file stat
09:09 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-FontAwesome4 4.2004 by Jan Henning Thorsen - http://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Mojolicious-Plugin-FontAwesome4-4.2004
09:09 batman (-f $file and -x $file) will do stat() twice, which (-f $file and -x _) will only stat once
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09:13 bc547 batman: k
09:15 batman bc547: http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/16/enhanced-buzz-15178-1362087290-6.jpg
09:15 bc547 batman: ok :-)
09:15 batman ;9
09:15 batman ;)
09:15 bc547 batman: tnx
09:16 batman you're not worth another google image search...
09:22 camelo lol
09:22 batman bc547: that last one was a bit too much. sorry about that.
09:22 batman bc547: i will rather say that language is a powerful thing, and should not be taken for granted.
09:23 bc547 batman: well.. google image search for tnx returned something different than expected :-)
09:23 batman k. tnx for goglng it 4 me.
09:24 batman looks a bit weird, doesn't it?
09:24 bc547 batman: np :-)
09:25 bc547 batman: but to make it up to you: Thank you for all your assistance.
09:25 batman you're very welcome bc547. _ is indeed a bit strange.
09:25 bc547 batman: it looks less weird than perl code
09:26 batman well... at least perl has a syntax checker, so you can't write anything wrong...
09:26 camelo code is only as weird as people do write it
09:27 camelo /do/who
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12:06 sri batman: i didn't notice, but now that you mention it... i like it
12:07 sri anyone got a read only file system and can fix this? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/692
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12:12 sri looks like a simple solution would be to revert https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/5facbf696bca63a6b2e6983395028ebfb0232d5e
12:12 sri since this actually causes quite a few failures on cpantesters i tend towards it
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12:19 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WNhS1A
12:19 good_news_everyon mojo/master 04aa323 Sebastian Riedel: fixed read-only file system compatibility of Mojo::Asset::File
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12:26 batman sri: thanks :)
12:27 batman i hope marcus will take the pull request, even though i reverted the icon change...
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13:33 * sri wonders if this should be there https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/script/hypnotoad#L6-L7
13:34 batman sri: i'm not to fund of modifying @INC in production.
13:34 batman i'm had a lot of issues with it @work...
13:34 mst sri: it seems really bizarre for the *hypnotoad* script to be doing that
13:34 batman fund? found..? hm...
13:35 mst surely that's only going to be helpful in a mojo checkout/unpacked tarball
13:35 mst and people shouldn't really be doing that
13:35 sri right, that's what it is meant for
13:35 sri made getting people to test stuff easier a long time ago
13:36 mst mm
13:36 batman +1 on removing it.
13:38 batman hm.... sri: have you been loosing any more messages on irc lately?
13:38 mst sri: I would think that maybe that's an argument for writing some sort of helper that rolls a testing dist with those lines in, or something
13:39 batman looks like i just lost one (!)
13:46 batman am i here?
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13:48 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/zJh1bw
13:48 good_news_everyon mojo/master d1b345f Sebastian Riedel: simplified scripts
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13:56 mst batman: no, you're over there
14:01 batman this is bad. i see that sri's message from earlier are logged to disk, but not in redis :(
14:01 batman i need to investigate further
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14:12 batman sri: sorry about that. redis restarted once i ran the ansible playbook :(
14:12 batman *when
14:12 bc547 sri: thanks for fixing the read-only filesystem issue.
14:19 sri oops, looks like i killed my automatic deploy script for http://mojolicio.us with the removal of those lines from the scripts
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14:31 sri that reminds me, i wanted to try that new linux feature where you can bind ports below 1024 with non-root users
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14:33 stephanj did they invent something new besides capabilities?
14:34 sri nope, it's setcap
14:34 stephanj ah
14:35 sri i've never used it, not sure what the security implications are, but giving a perlbrew perl the ability to bind to port 80 seems interesting
14:36 stephanj as you already saied the interpreter needs the capabilitie, which could leave a (slight) security hole, because then all scripts run with this interpreter are able to do so
14:37 mst sure, but 'chmod 700' or stricter equivalents should fix that
14:37 sri the perlbrew environment is tied to a specific user though
14:37 sri right
14:38 sri surely there is some security gain from not having to use sudo too
14:39 stephanj ye its just something that you should have in the back of your head... but in practice this is not that much of a problem if you make sure to keep permissions in check
14:40 sri oh my, setcap has been around for some time... *crawls back under his rock*
14:40 stephanj yea it is
14:43 sri google results seem to indicate cap_net_bind_service=+ep has been around since about 2010-ish
14:44 sri oh, since linus 2.6.24 :o
14:44 stephanj 2010? sounds a bit late if my memory does not betray me
14:44 sri s/s/x/
14:46 sri so 24 January 2008
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15:04 jberger I have been wondering if we should remove this from the recommended scripts too http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Growing#Script
15:05 jberger it seems that recommending perl -Ilib is more canonical
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15:06 batman i trust PERL5LIB more than i trust -I, since it will be inherited through exec
15:07 jberger I also have a similar plugin for static/templates: https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Plugin::InstallablePaths
15:08 jberger batman: good point
15:08 purl nice and sharp
15:09 jberger purl: botsnack
15:09 purl thanks jberger :)
15:12 jberger would be nice if we could get mojo into the bbc stack: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/2jf41g/new_bbc_web_site_powered_by_dancer/
15:15 moritz or build other awesome stuff with mojo :-)
15:16 jberger I keep wondering why someone chooses dancer over mojo, I really am just curious
15:17 jberger I'm not trying to slight dancer, mind you
15:17 mst my suspicion is "because dancer feels like procedural programming whereas because of the $c, even Mojolicious::Lite tends to feel more OO-y"
15:20 batman :( didn't know $(element).data("foo"); used a json parser if it looked like json :/
15:20 moritz heuristics, heuristics
15:22 jberger mst: yeah, cause a magic splat seems more sane :-P
15:22 * jberger really dislikes splat for some reason
15:23 mst jberger: I don't understand how that's even relevant
15:24 mst but, yeah, my POV at this point is "if you want bleeding edge, get Mojo, if you want old school large scale solid, get Catalyst, if you're scared of OO, here's Dancer"
15:25 jberger its not of course
15:25 jberger (not relevant)
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15:43 sri jberger: we are weak at london.pm and amsterdam.pm, simple as that
15:43 jberger indeed
15:43 sri when i was still in #london.pm there was quite a bit of fud being spread around every now and then
15:44 * jberger is for general reduction of fud
15:45 jberger I would go, but it would be hard on my pocketbook
15:46 sri jberger: removing the @INC stuff from scripts would mean we have to use -l in all examples
15:47 jberger in the end, we don't need to do that
15:47 jberger for the most part, people write app to use them not to CPAN distribute them
15:47 sri and it gets more complicated with morbo and hypnotoad
15:47 jberger *apps
15:48 sri perl `which morbo` -Ilib script/myapp
15:48 sri instead of
15:48 sri morbo script/myapp
15:48 jberger PERL5LIB=./lib morbo script/myapp
15:48 jberger but point taken
15:48 purl Hey, give that back!
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15:51 * jberger throws purl down a well
15:51 purl seven days
15:52 sri which reminds me that i've not looked how catalyst does it in a long time
15:54 sri haha, just the same, but with lib https://metacpan.org/source/JJNAPIORK/Catalyst-Runtime-5.90075/lib/Catalyst/ScriptRunner.pm#L39
15:55 jberger lib now scares the pants off me
15:56 sri and limited to directories that contain https://metacpan.org/source/JJNAPIORK/Catalyst-Runtime-5.90075/lib/Catalyst/Utils.pm#L183
15:57 jberger hmmmmm
15:57 jberger the internal argument for whether I like that or hate that rages
15:58 sri lots of hidden magic there
15:58 sri i like that we are upfront about what we do with @INC
16:00 sri if we change how @INC is handled, it has to be simpler
16:01 sri of course it helps that our default apps don't even contain a Makefile.PL
16:05 sri which reminds me that i still would like a better sentence to describe this problem
16:05 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blame/master/lib/Mojolicious/Guides/Growing.pod#L731
16:07 jberger "lib does scary, scary things, don't use it"
16:07 jberger :-P
16:08 jberger maybe just change can't to shouldn't or mustn't
16:08 mst sri: Catalyst is doing it for the myapp_foo.pl scripts though
16:08 sri i'm just as shocked about the scary scary things do() does :S
16:08 mst sri: doing it for an in-app-tree script makes more sense, I think
16:09 sri mst: yea
16:09 mst i.e. if it'd been a bin/myapp-hypnotoad rather than mojo's bin/hypnotoad I wouldn't've objected
16:09 mst because, overall, I think *that* turns out to be more good than trouble most of the time
16:10 sri i guess it depends what your main goal is... standalone app or installable module
16:10 mst though admittedly these days I often leave it out and just use myperl during development
16:12 sri i still remember when the catalyst scripts had to be update all the time... that was terrible :)
16:12 jberger sri: I don't suppose its possible, but it would be kinda nice if you could do ./myapp.pl hypnotoad or ./myapp.pl morbo
16:12 mst it took me -so- long to find somebody to unfuck Catalyst::Helper
16:12 sri jberger: if it was possible it would be that way
16:12 mst it was very obviously code you'd written fairly quickly and hit with a hammer until it basically worked
16:12 mst and then trying to modify the damn thing later was ... heinous
16:13 sri yea, i still remember nobody else wanted to work on that stuff back then
16:14 mst yeah, well, I didn't really blame them, given I was too lazy to as well :)
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16:30 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-HostMeta 0.16_1 by Nils Diewald - http://metacpan.org/release/AKRON/Mojolicious-Plugin-HostMeta-0.16_1
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16:44 * tempire is going to try moving back to mail.app for a while
16:51 * sri uses the gmail android app most of the time now
16:52 sri don't even have a mail app on the desktop anymore
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17:11 thowe Maybe I'll have better luck asking here...
17:11 thowe I'm trying to describe to my work folks the convention of the controller being named for the noun and the relevant methods being named for the verbs, etc.  So my things table has a Thing model and Thing controller and there is a semantic and OO consistency to it all.  This seems a fairly well established pattern, but does it have a name?  Is it described someplace?
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17:19 mst now I don't want to answer you in either channel.
17:21 thowe oof, I'll have to reset my counter...
17:21 thowe "It has been 00 days since the last haughty derision from mst."
17:23 mst more seriously, the Domain Driven Design concept of having a Ubiquitous Language covers this, IMO, and then using the same names for controllers and models are merely a specific implementation of that principle
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17:25 thowe Is there a particular article or other resource that comes to your mind on the subject?
17:27 mst I really liked the original Domain Driven Design book, but "read this entire book so I can make a two sentence argument" isn't a convincing proposition
17:27 mst maybe have a read through links from http://dddcommunity.org/ until you find something that looks good
17:27 thowe Thanks, I'll take a look at that now.
17:30 thowe mst++
17:31 thowe damn, that looks like a good book, though.
17:31 sri very famous book
17:32 mst when I was reading it I was like "this is how I've always approached application design when people have let me, but this guy is (a) clearly way more experienced than me (b) HE MANAGED TO FIND WORDS FOR ALL THE CONCEPTS OMG I HAVE WORDS NOW THANK YOU THANK YOU"
17:33 mst followed by basically going *squeeeeeeeeeee* for several days after, and making mdk order shadowcat an office copy
17:36 thowe The introduction of a vocabulary seems almost central to the ability to think about something in a useful way.  It also gives me something to have the self-styled "web development expert" at my office search Google for.
17:39 thowe Well, I shared the Hypermedia Design book you recommended to me around the office to good effect...  This looks like a similarly good choice.  Thanks!
17:41 mst I generally read offline for pleasure, so for a technical book to end up on my recommended list is has to be good enough that I'm willing to consider reading it in the pub in the evening to relax
17:41 mst that test means that many end up unfinished or skimmed
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17:45 sri which hypermedia design book?
17:46 thowe The HTML5 node.js one.
17:47 thowe Building Hypermedia APIs with HTML5 and Node
17:48 thowe That was educational for me to a huge degree and I haven't even read half of it yet.
17:48 mst yeah, it turns out to be a really good book on RESTful design, and the HTML5 and Node bits are basically incidental to the lessons
17:48 mst I feel like the title does it a disservice
17:49 sri oh
17:51 thowe Yeah, I've had to explain that.
17:51 sri that does not look like a node.js book at all :o
17:52 thowe I almost wonder if they thought they needed to add something trendy to the title.
17:52 thowe I guess the examples had to be in something.
17:56 sri ah, it's from 2011, there were not many node.js books back then, i guess they thought it would sell better this way
18:00 mst /w 105
18:03 sri /w 11067
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20:49 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v5.52 at 224b5ac: http://git.io/Bwu1IQ
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20:50 cpan_mojo Mojolicious 5.52 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-5.52
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20:50 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/UtdBIw
20:50 good_news_everyon mojo/master 304d767 Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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20:50 sri now please stop finding bugs, we are running out of version numbers too quickly!
20:51 preaction it's october! you've got 3 months to use 48 more versions!
20:51 sri they are supposed to last until next summer!
20:52 meredith 5.100?
20:53 jberger meredith: perl -Mversion -E 'say version->parse("5.100") > version->parse("5.99")'
20:53 sri we might have to do that... 100 releases per year just isn't enough
20:53 meredith i'm aware of the behavior, heh
20:53 mst start with 6.001 next time then
20:54 jberger sri: remember last year we had to hold at 4.99 for a long while to wait until mojoconf, which wasn't even technically summer
20:54 * mst likes using expanded perl versions, then I get 1000 bugfixes per minor release and 1000 minor releases per major release
20:54 sri bringing back the dark ages of 0.999999
20:55 sri we've been there :)
20:55 jberger mst approximates continuous deployment via quasi-continuous release
20:55 * marty_ remembers the 0.999999 days
20:55 mst ah, yes, the FullAuto versioning scheme
20:56 sri i always wanted to do 20141018.2256
20:56 moritz just do my $version = join '.', $major, time;
20:57 moritz (and don't forget to install ntpdate :-) )
20:59 jberger purl: seen crab
20:59 purl crab was last seen on #mojo 29 days, 16 hours, 35 minutes and 23 seconds ago, saying: i take it these are not registers like %eax  [Sep 19 04:24:20 2014]
20:59 * jberger misses crab
21:11 thowe We should just call Perl 5.22 Perl 7.  So many problems solved.
21:12 * sri sets thowe on fire
21:12 * thowe runs around in circles screaming
21:12 thowe OK, I take it back.  Mostly.
21:13 * mst decapitates thowe, burns the corpse, salts the ashes, and casts them into the ocean
21:13 sri oi! i was about to try roasting marshmallows
21:14 mst sri: the last time that particular meme caught on I blew two months trying to keep the drama from disrupting actual useful work any more than it did even with my efforts
21:14 thowe What ever happened to the "Pumpkin" thing?
21:15 thowe That was a thing, right?  I didn't dream that?
21:15 mst you didn't. it was me that started it.
21:15 mst I should resurrect it now I've run out of parents to die at inconvenient moments and thereby derail the process
21:16 thowe wow.  I'm sorry, comrade.
21:16 mst (the intention was to start discussing it just after 5.19 was begun; this put the time when I would've needed to be at my most active about a month after I ran out of living parents
21:16 mst as a result of which, I unsurprisingly completely failed to chase it up)
21:17 thowe I just want my raptor puking a rainbow shirt...  I will wear it to the local events and talk the talk.
21:17 * mst grins
21:18 thowe This shirt apparently is no more.  Bring it back!
21:20 * jberger WANTS
21:21 * jberger just wants strictperl
21:21 * jberger doesn't care what its version number is
21:21 * jberger also wants the raptorpuke shirt
21:23 batman jberger: I want those things as well :)
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21:34 hesperaux those shirts are lulzy. i've seen them
21:35 * hesperaux was excited the first time he saw the raptor on hypnotoad
21:35 hesperaux then I read what it said and I was sad again lol
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21:44 sri i think there are only 2 people who ever bought this shirt http://media.tumblr.com/f062a90116b7e753c763e778fa659b13/tumblr_inline_miam57dxQw1qz4rgp.png
21:45 thowe It was ahead of its time.  I will buy 2.
21:45 sri i have 5 of these myself though :) http://media.tumblr.com/7ae8f6c778f99e77f7b7ed4bfdbbab08/tumblr_inline_mialmbvvCG1qz4rgp.png
21:47 sri problem with the rainbow raptor is that it has too many colors for the high quality plot print
21:49 sri (nobody really cares about this... ever... but plot print rocks!)
21:55 marcus I really hate when the print feels plasticy and outside the material
21:55 marcus also that kind of print gets ruined very fast
21:59 sri plot print has a felt feel
21:59 sri like cloth printed on cloth, very nice
22:12 batman marcus: maybe you and sri can decide on my pull request? :)
22:12 batman on the design changes...
22:12 batman I will get some sleep now...
22:12 batman Back tomorrow.
22:13 sri batman: are there screenshots?
22:14 batman Harder. Better. Faster.Stronger.
22:14 batman sri: you're using it :)
22:14 sri umm, if it's live on demo.convos.by, then why the hell have you not accepted the pull request yet? Oo
22:14 sri this looks great
22:15 batman demo.convos.by is convos bleed :)
22:15 batman It's almost always a bit ahead of master, and almost never "stable" release.
22:16 jberger eeeek it makes me sad that there are no perl or mojo badges on http://devstickers.com/
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22:16 batman Right now it's running https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos/pull/213
22:17 sri looking at those stickers reminds me of the cool old school perl stickers thinkgeek once sold
22:17 batman But I want to try out https://github.com/Nordaaker/convos/pull/220
22:17 sri they were so simple, but so cool
22:17 sri i always had a [#!/usr/bin/perl] one on my laptop back then
22:18 sri think they were green with white text
22:20 marcus batman: Now you can have both on demo.convos.by, going to bed :)
22:20 batman "Both"?
22:20 purl "Both" is, like, a good option
22:21 marcus I just merged 213 to mastre?
22:21 marcus master.
22:22 batman What? No discussion??
22:22 batman What's going on? Is it my birthday?
22:22 batman :)
22:22 batman Thanks marcus. What do you think about my idea about the icons changing?
22:24 batman marcus++ # reviewing code like crazy :)
22:26 batman I will test 220 tomorrow
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22:38 sri that flappy bird easter egg in android l is ridiculous!
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22:57 jberger I don't think my s3 is going to get lollipop anytime soon
22:57 * jberger lives in the stone ages
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23:20 thowe I'm tempted to try Padre
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