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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-11-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 jberger s1037989: here or the mailing list are probably a good start, assuming we don't have a policy against that
00:04 s1037989 Right, that's what I don't know.  :)
00:05 jberger sri: can haz opinioz
00:06 jberger personally, as long as your search is in good faith, I'm ok with it
00:06 jberger or stated otherwise: don't make us create a policy ;-)
00:09 jberger s1037989: depending on the size and scope of your search, you might want to send a representative to next year's mojoconf
00:10 s1037989 I am definitely hoping to be able to!  So disappointed I had to miss the last one.  Any word yet on the location of mojoconf 2015?
00:10 jberger and while you're at it, you might want to sponsor too
00:11 jberger *wink*
00:11 jberger nothing official yet
00:11 jberger we have two claimants
00:11 s1037989 Would love to do that as well!  It'll help to get my company to do so if we have active Mojo development...  :/
00:13 jzawodn claimants?
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00:23 jberger probably the wrong word
00:24 jberger two groups have offered to host
00:25 tempire jberger: claimants is generally the term for the party that files a lawsuit
00:25 tempire Mojolicious is an outlaw.
00:25 tempire Against THE FULL ARM OF THE LAW.
00:26 jberger hahaha
00:27 jberger no I'm sticking with the term :-P
00:27 meredith q By Donna St. George November 11 at 6:34 PM
00:27 meredith Christmas and Easter have been stricken from next year’s school calendar in Montgomery County. So have Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah.
00:27 jberger meredith: wrong room?
00:27 meredith middle-click misfire
00:31 jzawodn tempire: this discussion reminded me to intro you to someone at craiglist for sponsorship, etc.
00:34 tempire saw that
00:35 jzawodn excellent
00:42 sri jberger/s1037989: so far the policy has been that only representatives the company may post job ads, and only if they are willing to answer questions on the list
00:43 sri so no recruiting spam
00:43 sri but if you can answer questions about how your company is using mojolicious, by all means, post away
00:46 s1037989 Thanks, sri, for the guidelines!
00:46 sri of course you get a lot more leeway if you've given us a quote ;) https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/User-quotes
00:46 s1037989 I think I've given the most...  :D
00:47 sri i guess you might even get away with recruiting spam then :D
00:47 s1037989 LOL
00:50 s1037989 And, actually, I think I'll start with contacting appropriate companies from those that submitted quotes.  Thanks!
00:54 bpmedley sri: I agree on your points that the proxy only sorta “works”.  I should have prefaced that I was trying to answer the question asked a few hours and not doing a well thought out and complete utility.
00:57 tardisx sri: thanks for fixing the Mojo::Pg notify/listen bug so quickly. I'm ridiculously excited about the possibilities for realtime websockets comms with postgresql providing trivial IPC
00:59 sri tardisx: me too :)
01:00 sri and i've learned that sth operations do not receive notifications... because they never actually reach the wire
01:00 sri somehow i always figured fetchrow_hashref would use a cursor to fetch only the next row
01:00 sri which would then be more memory efficient
01:01 sri but that's not the case in DBD::Pg, it always fetches *all* rows right away
01:01 tardisx isn't the notification at the database handle level anyway?
01:01 tardisx really? ugh
01:01 sri notifications can sent async with any database interaction
01:02 sri *+be
01:02 sri so whenever you perform an operation that results in a response from the database, you need to poll for new notifications
01:02 sri which DBD::Pg caches
01:03 sri https://metacpan.org/pod/DBD::Pg#Cursors
01:03 bpmedley I showed some Mojo / Minion code to a perl hater at work: he was impressed with how it looked.
01:03 sri there's the details
01:04 sri this actually makes notifications quite predictable and easy to use
01:04 sri you only need to be aware that you can't send or receive notifications in transactions
01:05 sri (you won't miss any though, they just get sent/received on commit)
01:05 sri postgresql puts quite a bit of space aside to cache your notifications
01:06 tardisx yes I saw that
01:06 tardisx I did see a refernce somewhere that suggested multiple identical notifications might get trashed though
01:06 tardisx but not in the postgresql docs so not sure if that is true
01:07 sri the implementation changed a few times too
01:07 sri i think it's only good since some 9.x release
01:08 tardisx I'm doing a tech demo of a basic websocket mojo chat today, I think next tech talk is already sorted, show the postgresql based IPC :-)
01:08 sri i think the real downside to using postgresql for pub/sub might be that postgresql is not very good at handling many concurrent connections
01:09 sri from what i gathered, the internal architecture looks a bit like apache, with one process per connection
01:09 tardisx well one connection per hypnotoad worker should scale ok?
01:10 sri yes
01:10 tardisx that's probably enough scale for me
01:10 tardisx but I can see use cases beyond that
01:11 tardisx I only want to use the notifications as a mechanism for "hey you clients, it's time for you to hit the REST interface"
01:12 sri hmm, i guess we need a mechanism to catch a connection close
01:12 sri right now the notification event would just stop getting emitted i believe
01:16 sri hmm, i guess it can be forced easily with a test case "select pg_terminate_backend(pg_backend_pid());"
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01:24 sri looks like sudden connection loss is not covered very well for async queries in the DBD::Pg docs
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01:27 jberger tardisx: if you are interested: https://gist.github.com/jberger/78d7c1649d7acbab6a94
01:28 jberger that's about the tiniest db backed (ie hypnotoad safe) websocket chat that I can come up with
01:28 jberger short of actually golfing
01:28 tardisx it's very nice
01:29 tardisx I just have an unreasonable dislike of NoSQL :-)
01:30 sri eeeep
01:30 tardisx most of it stems from my troubled past maintaining a large, fragile, NDBM based legacy billing system
01:30 sri on server side connection close i see "Mojo::Reactor::Poll: Read failed: DBD::Pg::db pg_notifies failed:  at /Users/sri/repo/mojo-pg/lib/Mojo/Pg/Database.pm line 125."
01:31 jberger tardisx: that example barely uses nosql
01:31 jberger it basically just uses redis as a message broker
01:31 tardisx no I know :-) the pub/sub stuff is useful, and I wouldn't even consider using postgresql just to get that
01:32 tardisx that'd be a big, dumb hammer
01:32 jberger HAMMER ALL THE THINGS !!
01:32 nicomen STOP! HAMMER TIME!
01:33 jberger dammit nicomen you got the song in my head
01:33 * jberger sets nicomen on fire
01:33 sri haha, $dbh->pg_ping is a -3 before that pg_notifies call... (which according to the docs should pretty much never happen)
01:34 tardisx Everything is JSON. If it's not JSON, make it JSON. Documents! NoSQL 5eva!
01:34 tardisx (I know redis has types. It's on my shortlist :-)
01:35 * sri wonders if he has discovered a hole in the DBD::Pg api
01:57 sri this is all i could come up with so far https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8a674195eb54a737661e
01:57 * sri could use some help here
02:03 sri i'm not even sure if pg_notifies reliably raises an error on connection loss
02:05 sri (the problem that needs to be solved is triggering a reconnect on connection loss when you're waiting for new notifications to arrive with yout event loop)
02:07 sri i guess until this is solved notification support is pretty much unusable
02:07 sri (maybe worth removing until a solution is found)
02:26 sri i guess you could regularly perform a $db->ping to check if the database connection is still ok
02:26 sri Mojo::IOLoop->recurring(5 => sub { warn "LOST CONNECTION!" unless $db->ping });
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02:33 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Erf1mw
02:33 good_news_everyon mojo/master 075a97d Sebastian Riedel: removed some dead code
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02:34 sri no wait, that still leaves the error when it tries to call pg_notifies...
02:34 sri :S
02:35 sri this would be a blocker for Mojo::Pg 1.0
02:37 sri in the end i guess no notification support is preferable to no 1.0
02:37 sri at least until we know how to handle it correctly
02:43 tempire sri: is the cloud a vector or a bitmap?
02:45 * tempire keeps losing the things
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03:16 tempire batman: can you send me the vector art used for for mojoconf2014?
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04:21 jberger did anyone know that in Perl "Subroutines whose name start with a left parenthesis are also reserved"
04:21 jberger :o
04:21 jberger reading perlsub is a strange way to relax for the evening
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07:02 sri hahaha... kinda awesome... i just wrote about how much i fail at irc with irssi... and of course i only notice after like a dozen messages that i'm not in #mojo
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07:04 sri bottom line, don't query me, i most of the time don't see the window
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07:05 sri re notifications, i ended up trying the close event approach https://github.com/kraih/mojo-pg/compare/v0.10...v0.11
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07:32 crab why does pg_terminate_backend() scare you?
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08:13 kwakwa I'm using $c->req->body_params->to_hash->{...} in some of my controllers, but I can't remember why instead of just ->body_params->param. I can't remember the benefit sri or someone else said. Does anyone know the difference?
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08:59 Dandre Hello,
09:00 Snelius re
09:01 Dandre I'd like to put some warning message to a user if his browser does not allow cookies . What is the best way to do it? Must I use bridge ?
09:02 Snelius return json for restfull app. or render warning template
09:05 Dandre the best way could be to test for cookie support in a template but I don't know how to do it
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09:29 Snelius Dandre: by JS for example. document.cookie
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09:38 Dandre ok
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09:56 damaya ?
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11:15 irq how can add a custom cli option to a mojo application which is then consumed and controls the way the application works? For instance location of a config file?
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11:37 hernan604 irq: could you use Mojo::UserAgent and make it login, send and receive requests ?
11:39 hernan604 (i dont know if there is a more direct option ie like Test::Mojo does)
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11:40 hernan604 irq: another option i usually do is, create a MyApp::Module that works in cli. Then i make MyApp::Mojo consume MyApp::Module instance
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11:43 hernan604 this last option allows to have a very thin web layer. making 'easy' to test other web framework
11:43 hernan604 its called framework agnostic
11:50 irq hernan604: how is then @ARGV avaliable to Getopt:: ? It seems it's already after Mojolicious::Commands does its "consuption" of them.
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12:02 irq what I mean is to have something like `myapp  daemon -l http://*:* --configfile=testconfig.yml`. So I need to get the --configfile back somewhere and setup my app per settings found there.
12:06 hernan604 irq: check out Mojolicious::Plugin::Config then you do something like: my $config_file = ${MY_APP_CONFIG_FILE} || 'default.conf';
12:06 hernan604 and you start your app with: export MY_APP_CONFIG_FILE=custom.conf && myapp  daemon -l http://*:*
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15:21 sri crab: because i'm worried i might not always have the permission to use it in the tests
15:22 * sri doesn't know postgresql permissions very well yet though
15:23 sri re new amazon stuff, like how the aurora database can simulate failures easily https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2RX97PIEAAM6BB.jpg
15:23 sri s/like/i like/
15:29 crab it wasn't a directive? ;-)
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16:07 sri specifically this test https://github.com/kraih/mojo-pg/compare/v0.10...v0.11#diff-6d8c1c9be729d3d174d06563b0376612R236
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16:15 sri hmm, looks like Net::DNS::Native fails to install randomly
16:15 sri https://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/jobs/40845921
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16:57 dparry routes question, if I have http://pastie.org/9717133 why does /m/admin/ get routed to the service handler...?
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16:59 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Routing#Introspection
16:59 dparry well, it seems the fix for me is to drop the /
17:00 dparry I guess the *foo can match anything but it must match _something_ in order to trigger
17:01 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Routing#Wildcard-placeholders
17:01 sri correct
17:02 dparry thanks sri :)
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17:11 sri dparry: in case you've not found it yet http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Routing#Optional-placeholders
17:16 sri guess this pull request will be controversial https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/707
17:19 * batman just commented
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17:24 * sri commented on batman's comment
17:25 * batman starts hacking
17:25 sri please, do not make a script that creates a data strucutre
17:26 sri i'm super -1 on scripts that generate code
17:27 sri batman: and you have yet to explain how a data structure is better than a DATA section
17:28 * batman stops hacking
17:28 batman hehehe
17:28 batman it wouldn't have to be parsed
17:29 sri and that's better because?
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17:30 sri (i know you'll say startup time... and i'll ask for a benchmark ;p)
17:31 sri (then you might start hacking again... and then i'll bet you can't actually measure it)
17:31 sri :)
17:32 stephanj couldn't you make some sort of function out of it? sub load_entities { ... read entities from file .... }; &load_entities(); - and then someone who dislikes the current mechanism could monkeypatch it (unless i am missing some obvious pitfail with my approach, which i am surely doing)
17:32 * batman goes back on adding metacpan support to linkembedder
17:33 sri stephanj: does that sound like an elegant solution to you?
17:34 stephanj it's right on the border between functional and ugly and functional in my opinion. would it actually work?
17:35 stephanj i am not sure with monkeypatching... as you would have to do it before the module is loaded(after the module is loaded the loader already ran)
17:35 stephanj not sure if it will work with*
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17:36 mst sri: __DATA__ doesn't seem like a terrible answer
17:36 mst sri: OTOH ... I can sort of see the idea of fatpacker providing a way to embed other files, the problem then is how would the perl code find it?
17:37 sri mst: it gets complicated with public/templates where we bundle 404/500 pages and stuff
17:37 sri there's jquery and prettify.js, which need to be updated regularly
17:38 mst sri: ah
17:39 sri i think the debian packages actually depend on the way we bundle those... to remove those and use the packaged version
17:39 mst the problem then is ... can everything you need that for accept a scalarref filehandle?
17:39 sri clear no
17:39 sri or maybe xD
17:40 sri i guess the slurp() calls can just be replaced
17:41 mst I mean, I could pack up the sharedir, if it's there, and then pull some sort of trick involving a tempdir or something
17:41 mst but eek
17:43 sri really too bad bundling non-perl files with cpan dists is still such a mess
17:48 sri i wanted to put all non-perl files into a single directory, but that would break certain tools that have special mojolicious support :(
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17:57 sri jberger, tempire, crab, batman: up to you what happens with #707
17:58 batman sri: have you looked at http://teespring.com/ ? they just sent me a new tesla t-shirt, without me asking for one
17:58 batman ...because people had been complaining about the print quality
17:59 sri no
18:01 sri batman: what print method do they use?
18:01 batman no idea :( i'm just a consumer
18:01 batman i just thought it was interesting that they just sent me an email telling me another t-shirt is on its way :)
18:02 sri the fact that the site doesn't say seems sketchy
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18:02 Oleg sri: is there a way to see why it fails to install?
18:03 sri Oleg: don't think so :(
18:03 batman oatmeal has raised $154,000 through the website...
18:03 sri but maybe there's one on cpan testers too
18:04 sri Oleg: maybe http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/7bdab09c-67ff-11e4-9ce3-9a752656b80b
18:04 Oleg I think cpanm --verbose will be more verbose. But don't know is there a way to specify some options for travis
18:05 sri Oleg: considering it only happened once, you might have to trigger *a lot* of travis runs
18:06 Oleg maybe it even failed to build
18:08 Oleg however test 2 is not totally correct, I'll fix it
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19:24 sri allright, now the comments in #707 start to look a little ignorant
19:28 sri i bet the "fix" for 404/500 pages missing will be embedding them in the DATA section too... completely ignoring the images/scripts/stylesheets... because it "works"... who cares if the pages look like shit...
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19:45 sri tempire, jberger, crab, batman: time you take a stance on this https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/707
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20:24 sri ok, i'm getting too bitter again... nomore github issues for me for a while
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21:13 sri i guess everyone else is playing world of warcraft :o
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