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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-11-21

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Time Nick Message
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00:34 Grinnz_ turns out, i can just do it in the after_render hook.. that isn't called on static content
00:34 Grinnz_ wonder which is faster :P
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00:40 sri there's lots of solutions, after_static works too (used a little differently)... but if you can pick under
00:41 Grinnz_ organizationally, it seems a little weird to have all my routes under an invisible root route
00:41 sri it's not
00:41 Grinnz_ any reason under would be better?
00:42 sri nested routes is a core concept of mojolicious
00:42 sri hooks are mostly for framework extensions, not app logic
00:42 Grinnz_ fair enough
00:43 Grinnz_ i haven't been able to figure out how to do my auth logic in a nested route though; as the route doesn't know if it needs to check auth until it gets to the endpoint
00:44 Grinnz_ or at least, lower down in the tree
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01:15 godenji hello everyone, I'm dropping by here after google failed me. I have a question about a deprecated hook
01:16 godenji we use an old version of Mojo, the guys upstairs aren't willing to upgrade, and the log is full of "after_static_dispatch hook is DEPRECATED" messages
01:16 godenji what I would like to know is, can I safely replace it before_routes as-is, or would it be better to put a no warnings; in a block there?
01:18 godenji after_static_dispatch doesn't appear in the online docs so I'm not sure how it differs from before_routes
01:28 sri godenji: well, do your tests still pass afterwards?
01:29 sri i barely remember what i wrote 2 weeks ago... not a chance i would remember 2 YEARS https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/Changes#L1117
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01:32 sri (yea, that's 1117 lines of changes)
01:38 godenji sri: unfortunately, as it often happens in the Perl world, it isn't stuff I've written and I can't say I know Mojo inside out... just trying to figure out what after_static_dispatch hook USED to do before I go and make the change in several plugins
01:41 godenji not everything is tested in this project, and I'm afraid that unless I have a solid understanding of what exactly these two methods do, it may come back to bite me later on :/
01:47 godenji mhm I guess I could compare the sources I have with the latest version and see if I figure it out
01:47 mst I wouldn't compare, so much as 'read the old hook, then read the new hook'
01:48 godenji either way I need the source
01:48 mst cpanm --look Mojo@1.23
01:48 mst er, maybe Mojolicious@
01:48 mst but it's easy enough to read
01:49 godenji ah, I'm checking out git
01:49 godenji *github
01:49 mst grabbing the tag also works
01:49 mst I just can't be arsed if cpanm can find the version
01:51 godenji thanks
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03:32 Guest-quest good day and night, guys )
03:32 godenji good noon
03:33 Guest-quest what do you think, is expedient the syntax for future: use Mojo::Base ['Foo', 'Bar']; ?
03:35 godenji what does that do?
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03:36 Guest-quest that like: use parent qw(Foo Bar);
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03:36 godenji set multiple base classes?
03:36 Guest-quest yes
03:37 godenji I've never tried but doesn't   use Mojo::Base qw(Foo Bar)   work already?
03:38 Guest-quest not work, no loop in import
03:39 godenji I guess all you can do is load -strict and push stuff into ISA yourself
03:40 Guest-quest I'm too lazy )
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03:44 sri better use Moo(se) and roles if you need more power
03:48 Grinnz roles ftw
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06:04 franzkafka Whoever designed Convos: Have you thought about the idea of creating a simple enough IRC client that one need not feel technically savvy to use it?
06:04 franzkafka I was reading Freenode's page and was amazed that it is the largest IRC network with a mere 80k users at peak times. IRC is really quite amazing, but most people don't know about it, and then there's this strange learning curve to it.
06:09 Grinnz franzkafka, a lot of that is relics of its history which persist today. it is not easy to get around them without redesigning the protocol
06:10 godenji IRC is ooooold stuff
06:10 Grinnz the concept of nickserv, for example, which is completely different on several popular networks
06:10 Grinnz or absent entirely, perhaps replaced by somthing else
06:10 franzkafka Grinnz, I think with good UX design you can get around it.
06:10 Grinnz there's a lot you need to take into account if you want to abstract away everything IRC networks do
06:11 franzkafka Grinnz, Ah, that is a good point. I was thinking that as well earlier, but I have used no networks other than Freenode and Perl.org in a very long time.
06:11 Grinnz hell, i have enough trouble making my bot work properly just on 3 different networks
06:11 Grinnz gamesurge and freenode are two examples of networks which tend to eschew the norms.
06:12 Grinnz franzkafka, i think it comes down to, anyone who is going to spend the effort on that sort of thing ends up just making a replacement for IRC.
06:12 franzkafka So, it is a problem of the differences in IRC networks than. What about an IRC network for the app?
06:13 Grinnz well certainly, if you control the network you can do anything much more easily
06:13 Grinnz but at that point, most of the popular services actually have their own backend, and an IRC compatible interface
06:13 franzkafka Rather than having an app that can interface with every IRC network, build an IRC network for the app. In a sense, bring IRC to the masses through a nice web interface.
06:14 Grinnz e.g. twitch
06:14 Grinnz or this service we started using at work, slack
06:14 franzkafka Grinnz, twitch.tv?
06:14 Grinnz yes
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06:14 Grinnz they don't use IRC, specifically, but you can connect to their chat with an irc client
06:15 franzkafka See, I think the idea of IRC is awesome; but, there is something about it that has always kept it from catching on.
06:15 franzkafka I mean, IRC is far cooler than Twitter, and you can get responses far faster than StackOverflow.
06:16 godenji but Twitter and SO are companies, IRC is a protocol
06:16 Grinnz there is just too much cruft. i'm not sure what replacement will catch on, if any, but IRC itself isn't going to change any more than it has in the past couple decades
06:16 franzkafka I thought Twitter was a protocol.
06:17 Grinnz well... it's a website, that has an API, i suppose
06:17 Grinnz stackoverflow is more of a forum format
06:17 franzkafka Hm, the idea of this was brought up in a channel over on freenode, and I thought it was an interesting idea.
06:17 godenji with that said, I mean, IRC has never been branded I reckon
06:18 franzkafka I guess the question was brought up: "Why has IRC never caught on with the masses?"
06:18 godenji the only way I can see it "taking off" in the way franzkafka means is if a company made a service out of it and popularised it enough that people just want to get on it and chat with their peers about stuff
06:18 godenji then we'd get [This ad is brought to you by: AT&T] spam messages in channels
06:19 Grinnz lol
06:19 franzkafka godenji, that's pretty much what I am talking about... taking the technical barricades away, because IRC itself is pretty awesome.
06:19 franzkafka haha
06:19 Grinnz well that's the thing. IRC is just a protocol, any tom dick or harry can run their own IRCd if they don't like soemone else's
06:19 godenji and welcome to Bayesian spam filters for irc
06:20 dabudabu I don't know... I think most people would prefer talking to people they know in real life
06:20 godenji ye see it's that problem again, IRC isn't fashionable and there isn't anyone pushing it or branding it
06:20 Grinnz dabudabu, LOL
06:20 godenji masses follow what is a) pushed onto them or b) fashionable (see a)
06:20 Grinnz godenji, well anyone who would be in a position to just makes their own chat service.
06:20 franzkafka dabudabu, I dunno, a lot of people use Facebook, Twitter, etc...
06:20 godenji I used IRC a lot twenty years ago, talked to my classmates at night
06:21 godenji even though I saw them every day in the morning
06:21 franzkafka dabudabu, I think I'd rather talk on IRC; but then again, I get what you're saying, in that most people on IRC are probably not like most people :D
06:21 godenji there was something magical about chatting with someone over the IRC and being generally mischevious
06:21 franzkafka godenji, I was on Efnet 20 years ago, making arrangements to walk over to a friends house to have coffee and a cigarette.
06:21 Grinnz slack isn't technically IRC, but sicne i'm connected it through IRC, it feels like i chat with my coworkers over IRC, hehe
06:22 godenji the whole reason I have IRC open is that at work we DO chat over IRC
06:22 godenji we have our own server and a bot that pulls Redmine ticket info if I type #12345
06:22 franzkafka I just went to slack's website. I'm beginning to think all websites are designed by the same person.
06:22 Grinnz yep, someone is actually using my bot for that on their work irc network, heh
06:22 franzkafka godenji, That is actually really awesome.
06:22 godenji franzkafka, it's the whole Web 2.0 -thing-.
06:22 franzkafka Grinnz, link to the bot?
06:23 Grinnz franzkafka, it's kind of a mess, i'm rewriting it from scratch ... slowly :P
06:23 Grinnz but the current incarnation is at https://github.com/Grinnz/paperbot
06:24 godenji now that you mention it I do think that websites have the same vibe nowadays...
06:24 dabudabu I got into IRC in an addiction experiment
06:24 dabudabu I.e., I tried to see if I could get addicted to IRC.
06:24 godenji oh you can
06:24 dabudabu I think the answer is "yes".
06:24 Grinnz that's an odd reason to go on IRC
06:24 godenji correction: you could
06:26 dabudabu Yes, I suppose it is ;p
06:28 franzkafka Grinnz, thanks! It sounds like something we could use at my work.
06:30 Grinnz i wouldn't recommend it honestly, it requires quite a bit of setup and isn't modular
06:30 Grinnz but people keep telling me to add stuff to it and i haven't got the new one done yet... heh
06:30 franzkafka Hrm, I like the idea of being able to type in a bug number and get info
06:31 franzkafka I never really thought about writing a bot in Perl. I wrote one about 15 years ago for mIRC, but can't recall what I wrote that in.
06:31 Grinnz probably mirc script or whatever
06:31 franzkafka It did cool things like make text bold, blink, etc
06:31 Grinnz or possibly eggdrop
06:31 franzkafka Yeah, that's right. I forgot mIRC had a scripting language.
06:31 godenji blink!
06:31 Grinnz <blink>
06:31 godenji Now that's an awesome Web 1.0 memory
06:31 Grinnz memory? it's still around!
06:31 godenji waaaat
06:31 godenji and <marquee>
06:32 Grinnz ehehe
06:32 dabudabu Making a bot as an irssi script is easy
06:32 godenji but it's going to be more fun with Perl
06:32 franzkafka Oh man, my page on Angelfire was filled with <marquee>. I thought it was about the most awesome thing ever.
06:32 dabudabu irssi scripts are in perl ;p
06:33 Grinnz yeah irssi pretty much only does perl
06:33 godenji I didn't know
06:33 godenji only ever used BitchX as a user
06:34 Grinnz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_element#Usability_and_accessibility this article lmao
06:35 Grinnz blink is only a CSS3 tag, now, though
06:35 Grinnz property, rather
06:35 godenji fuck Apple Computer.
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06:37 dabudabu Does Blink support <blink>?
06:40 franzkafka godenji, why? I was thinking about getting an Apple for work.
06:40 franzkafka godenji, We have two choices, Windows or Apple, no Linux :(
07:00 preaction if you want a unix, don't get windows
07:00 preaction and if work's paying, get a mac
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07:01 godenji sorry franzkafka, was break time
07:02 godenji I am made to use a macbook air for work but honestly, the only pure-iOS software I use regularly is Sublime Text. I hate the hell out of Finder (shittiest file manager ever) and the rest of the stuff I use for my perl development is... well, *nix tools
07:02 godenji so it can't really be said that I'm "using a mac"
07:02 franzkafka preaction, I keep getting emails about my Linux box being out of compliance for not having anti-virus, so they're finally forcing me to get a new computer.
07:02 godenji I am using OSX because it's compatible with unix.
07:03 franzkafka godenji, Isn't it beautiful as a dev environment?
07:03 godenji I could have the same with a fresh Linux install
07:03 franzkafka godenji, I was thinking that was the case, and maybe the aesthetic factors make it worth it.
07:04 franzkafka godenji, I dunno. There is something about it. Though, my Gentoo + AwesomeWM set up does look pretty damned sweet as well.
07:05 godenji franzkafka I can understand that but in my mind, it feels just like I'm using a glorified aluminium laptop with a shitty file manager, awkward keyboard shortcuts and a pseudo-linux installed on it
07:05 franzkafka s/something/good marketing/ :D
07:05 godenji It is a beautiful and light machine, sure
07:05 godenji but software wise? Meh
07:05 godenji it is great to bring to boring meetings and do some work while the grownups are talking, though
07:06 franzkafka godenji, OK. Yeah, I have a hard time with Windows because it bothers me not having a terminal. That's really the biggest thing for me. They've suggested Cygwin, but it's just not the same. I haven't used Windows in 10+ years, and I have no intentions of going back.
07:06 godenji Cygwin is a mess, I much rather have a native shell so I don't need putty or something to ssh somewhere
07:07 franzkafka However, there's a lot of stuff about the Mac that doesn't seem too appealing either (but I can't judge since I've never used one).
07:07 franzkafka I'm going to be so sad when they make me get rid of my Lenovo w/ Linux.
07:07 franzkafka godenji, What distro do you use?
07:08 godenji I'm on OSX right now as I mentioned earlier, but in my previous company I asked my boss to install Arch Linux instead of Windows
07:08 godenji and just virtualised Win XP on top
07:08 godenji for servers I've always installed Debian
07:09 franzkafka Nice. I very much like Arch Linux too. Right now I am using Xubuntu on this laptop, because I don't get distracted trying to customize everything.
07:09 godenji and at home I have an old netbook with Xubuntu because nothing except Ubuntu & co. has the drivers for it
07:09 franzkafka Ah, I've always used Gentoo for my desktop/dev systems, and CentOS for my servers.
07:09 godenji Yeah I would definitely choose Xubuntu for a laptop because XFCE and drivers.
07:09 franzkafka Xubuntu is really not bad. It's a Linux that allows you to just get stuff done.
07:10 godenji I don't like how they removed the install scripts for Arch since a few years ago
07:10 franzkafka I spend way too much time customizing stuff in Gentoo and Arch Linux. I'm always changing things.
07:10 godenji there was a wizard of sorts... it was very useful
07:10 franzkafka Really? I wonder why they removed it? It's not too bad to do the install without the script, but if one was there it doesn't make sense to get rid of it.
07:11 franzkafka Personally, I hate systemd. My biggest problem with Arch was its move to systemd. Now that all the distros are going that way, I may just end up going back to Slackware after all these years ;)
07:11 godenji https://www.archlinux.org/news/install-media-20120715-released/
07:12 godenji Ah... well, if you're used to init.d yeah
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07:13 franzkafka Yeah, used to init.d and there's a lot about systemd I do not like. I will admit a replacement is needed, but systemd should not be it (imo).
07:15 godenji aren't there distros that allow a choice or allow it to be replaced?
07:15 godenji without shedding the blood of unborn babies
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07:46 oetiker comparing Content-Length and length($self->req->build_body) shows a difference of 2 bytes when uploading a file with chrome,FF,IE (example on https://gist.github.com/oetiker/21107f3b2ceaa6790ecf ) looking at the request using wireshark reveals that the browsers add  x0d x0a at the end of the content while build_body does not incorporate the final \r\n
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08:55 marcus o/
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12:04 irq How do I encode 'service=foo' in the postgresql:/// scheme ?
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12:12 irq it's documented 'postgresql://?service=foo'. Sorry for the noise.
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12:53 jberger one nice thing about irc is that the learning curve is just steep enough to keep away most of the derp
12:53 Nei lol are you confident about that ;p
12:54 jberger make it as easy as getting a SO account and the signal to noise ratio will drop to nil
12:54 jberger Nei: been on SO lately? I haven't
12:56 jberger to ask a question here, the user has to have a certain base level of competence
12:57 jberger otherwise you get these: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/2mnzlz/no_perl_knowledge_but_want_to_create_a_script/
12:58 jberger any time anyone admits that they don't know any Perl and they want to do something for work I just want to ask if they even tried to learn
13:00 jberger but I don't
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13:01 Nei :P
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13:08 jkramer Ahoy!
13:11 jkramer I'm using Mojo::DOM, trying to strip a lot of unwanted tags and just keep a few good ones I like, but I'm getting loads of warnings from inside of Mojo::DOM. Not sure if I'm using it wrong or if it's buggy.
13:11 jkramer http://dpaste.com/3GCQSJV - here's the script and some of the warnings
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13:47 go|dfish jkramer: you can get the dom from ->res->dom
13:48 Adura You might want to use the latest, too.
13:48 jkramer Oh, thanks for the dom tip.
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13:48 jkramer Adura: It's already the latest version
13:50 jkramer go|dfish: Can't locate object method "dom" via package "Mojo::Transaction::HTTP"
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13:52 jkramer Oh wait, I tried updating Mojo::DOM, not Mojolicious. Looks like there's a new version anyway, let me update first
13:53 Grinnz they are in the same distribution
13:54 Grinnz and ->res is a Mojo::Message::Response not a Mojo::Transaction::HTTP...
13:55 Grinnz oh, from user agent
13:56 Grinnz should be the same, still
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14:04 jkramer Yay, no warnings anymore. Thanks!
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14:35 jkramer Yay, no warnings anymore. Thanks!
14:35 jkramer Oops
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14:39 jkramer Any ideas why this doesn't strip the "main" tag? $node->find('main')->map('strip');
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15:14 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Fw9hcA
15:14 good_news_everyon mojo/master b81be4f Sebastian Riedel: fixed a few multipart form handling bugs
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15:17 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/CISlyQ
15:17 good_news_everyon mojo/master 67fa439 Sebastian Riedel: removed some leftover debug code
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15:55 sri basiliscos: it's happening again
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16:06 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/DPIYZg
16:06 good_news_everyon mojo/master 31a45d4 Sebastian Riedel: no need to check twice
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16:55 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mwOxaQ
16:55 good_news_everyon mojo/master 34c7b4f Sebastian Riedel: fixed a few more multipart bugs
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19:17 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_SXFBA
19:17 good_news_everyon mojo/master 34e5df1 Sebastian Riedel: improved portability of some tests
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19:31 * sri wonders when postgres 9.4 will finally be released
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19:34 sri this reminds me that i really really need to learn more about recursion in postgres http://illuminatedcomputing.com/posts/2014/09/postgres-cte-for-threaded-comments/
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19:38 mst WITH RECURSIVE is awesome.
19:39 Grinnz_ recursive? in relational databases? that sounds scary
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19:49 mst Grinnz_: it means you can pull a tree in a single query without needing insane hacks
19:49 mst bloody nice
19:50 Grinnz_ i see
19:50 * Grinnz_ mostly deals in mysql, where "array" isn't even a thing
19:52 mst hahahaha
19:52 purl LOLCON 4 reached.
19:53 Grinnz_ indeed.
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21:37 * doby is the proud new owner of a fail raptor tshirt
21:37 doby got here today
21:38 doby expect to have to beat women off with a stick when i wear it out tonight
21:38 doby :)
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21:46 TeddyDemo play with me (carefully) http://devio.us:9302/
21:49 mst "show us on the TeddyDemo where the bad man touched you"
21:49 mst you've ... done a web frontend to irssi?
21:50 TeddyDemo bizarre
21:50 Nei a mojolicious websocket pipe to irssi
21:51 mst Nei: that's quite beautifully nuts
21:51 Nei glad I could put a little smile on your face
21:51 Nei :)
21:52 mst given htaccess or equivalent in front of it, I could see this being rather useful
21:53 Nei it can be protected with a password yes
21:53 mst assuming I can bring it up/shut it off without confusing the irssi instance
21:54 Nei it's a bit dangerous if it got into wrong hands, since it's basically a shell into your box
21:56 Nei I hope someone might make an android app of it ;) although the html app has a tiny bit of responsive layout shit
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21:58 Nei anyway if you're bored/interested you can get it anytime at http://anti.teamidiot.de/static/nei/*/Code/Irssi/teddy-nu.tar.gz and try it (maybe in a test irssi instance first)
21:59 Nei it shouldnt mess with your irssi too much you can always unload it but the persistent perl interpreter means the Mojo* modules will remain in %INC
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23:46 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/-sb8OA
23:46 good_news_everyon mojo/master 50164ba Sebastian Riedel: use a more defensive steady_time test
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