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IRC log for #mojo, 2014-11-28

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02:27 Grinnz did you bring enough for the whole channel?!
02:31 mikegrb yes, he did but I ate yours.
02:32 Grinnz that's ok, i still have Grinnz_'s share
02:33 mikegrb nop.
02:33 mikegrb I'm a fat, ate that too.
02:33 Grinnz D:
02:57 tempire erg
02:57 tempire Can't json dump mango results
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03:04 sri happy black friday!
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03:11 sri most american holidays are easy to miss on social media for me... but black friday and 9/11 there's coupon codes everywhere
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04:19 thowe 9/11 is a holiday?
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04:34 * jberger fends off the food coma
04:34 thowe I find taking a couple of Tums helps a lot.
04:34 jberger so it looks like my new place of business wants to get me a Mac, my choice
04:34 jberger any opinions?
04:35 * jberger has always been a Linux guy
04:35 thowe Wants to get you a Mac, or wants to get you a computer and you want a Mac?
04:35 jberger they want to get me a Mac
04:36 jberger I would probably prefer off brand laptops with Linux, as currently using
04:36 * jberger has a zareason
04:36 thowe A friend of mine just went to a Java shop that uses Macs, and he spent some time showing them how unixy it can be.  You can install a lot of the things you are used to.  tmux was one of the things he couldn't live without.
04:37 jberger I have a hideaway shell that I'm not sure I can live without
04:37 thowe I've been an OpenBSD guys for a LONG time, but I've been OK on this Debian machine for a while now...
04:37 thowe "hideaway"?
04:38 jberger its always on top, but with a keystroke it's in the background
04:38 thowe got it to play Kerbal Space Program...
04:38 jberger called tilda
04:41 jberger http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D1EpnOVJuA8/TPU8jteCoxI/AAAAAAAADV4/V0Kp7b4wciY/s1600/tilda01.png
04:41 thowe Why do they need you to use a Mac so badly?
04:41 jberger i think everyone there uses one
04:41 jberger I'm not opposed, I just never wanted to spend the money to try one
04:42 thowe So...  They are uncomfortable with the idea that you might not conform?
04:42 jberger no, they have said I could keep mine, but then again, free mac laptop
04:42 thowe At my job, you can run any OS you want as long as you take responsibility for making it work right.  If you can't do that, then you use what we give you.
04:43 thowe jberger, Oh, well, when you put it that way...  Yeah, get a Mac and try it out.
04:43 firnsy jberger: you can always put 'nix on the Mac
04:44 thowe There are supposed to be some programming editors that are rally nice.
04:44 jberger thing is, since I will be working from home mostly, and they all seem to use Macs, having facetime might be handy
04:44 * firnsy is proud to say the Mac work bought him never had a chance to completely boot to OSX on his watch
04:44 thowe Ah...  I've never done a remote gig.  I am starting to think I need to work one day a week at home so that I can actually get things done, though.
04:44 Grinnz jberger, you can just install linux or something else on the mac they get you, at least you'll get some solid hardware
04:45 jberger firnsy: that is how my Windows laptops have been ever since feisty
04:45 jberger but I have bought Linux hardware lately
04:45 firnsy jberger, facetime shmacetime ... just gives you more incentive to write mojoface
04:45 Grinnz i see firnsy said that :)
04:46 Grinnz facetime? lol
04:46 thowe There aren't enough laptops out there that target Linux/BSD
04:46 Grinnz google hangouts, if you realllly need video for some reason
04:46 thowe Which is surprising in this day and age.
04:46 jberger thowe: I have a zareason
04:46 jberger And there's system76
04:46 thowe zareason?
04:46 thowe I haven't heard of either....
04:46 Grinnz thowe, i'm not sure what "targeting linux/BSD" would entail, except using only intel GPU and avoiding broadcom wireless chips
04:47 jberger Grinnz: hardware compatibility is part of it
04:47 jberger not paying the Windows tax is another
04:47 Grinnz what else is there? other than those silly things, you can put linux on any laptop
04:47 Grinnz well, yes
04:48 Grinnz i think, in some technicalities, you can get the windows license refunded
04:48 Grinnz i'm not sure if thats true anymore
04:48 preaction jberger: iTerm2 has that hideaway shell thing, i just never got into it
04:48 jberger I'm not sure anyone ever actually got a check
04:48 thowe I have had various apic problems...  sleep and wakeup problems...
04:48 jberger http://zareason.com/shop/UltraLap-440.html
04:48 jberger mine ^^
04:49 jberger thowe: I'm not sure any Linux does that well tbh
04:49 jberger at least not on modern hardware
04:50 firnsy jberger: IMO, get the Mac and liberate it with 'nix
04:50 jberger preaction: you in the office tomorrow?
04:50 preaction yeah
04:50 jberger cool
04:50 jberger see you there
04:50 dabudabu Maybe we should hire the Microsoft guy who inplemented it for Windows and have him port his code to Linux :>
04:50 thowe OpenBSD has made huge strides...  I also really appreciate the way they handle wireless interfaces.
04:51 Grinnz sleep has been an issue in linux as long as i can remember; i solve it by not sleeping in linux :P
04:51 jberger thowe: I haven't had any wireless issues with ubuntu in years
04:51 jberger Grinnz: agreed
04:51 dabudabu It works 100% on my laptop
04:52 dabudabu But I'm too scared to try hibernate
04:52 firnsy i have no issues with sleep/resume in Linux on a Mac
04:53 jberger firnsy: the joys of standardized hardware
04:53 dabudabu Hibernation on linux might have wiped my partition table once
04:53 firnsy jberger: ack
04:54 dabudabu _Could_ have been a random coincidence with a harddrive failure though.
04:55 thowe Hrm...  I actually have the framework of this app to the point where I need some data to test with...  That's inconvenient...
05:06 thowe jberger, You had said earlier that someone was working on a Mojo book (besides you?)?  Is that available to look at?
05:13 preaction i'm trying to test a Mojo::Server::Daemon and Mojolicious app all in one process, but only the first transaction seems to work correctly: https://gist.github.com/preaction/f0b94a7433964eab7c52
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05:17 preaction the second request gets 404, and the third (for actual content) gets a "Premature connection close"
05:18 thowe apparently my PERL5LIB in my environment is not used when I launch my app with morbo?
05:19 jberger thowe: it should be
05:19 nicomen preaction: if the request calls stop, there is no ioloop running for the next query perhaps?
05:19 preaction the worst thing is that the app and server work, but only the tests do not
05:19 nicomen query=request
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05:20 thowe Maybe I actually forgot to use my lib...
05:20 jberger preaction: tests are usually blocking or else one Rocky
05:20 jberger gerr
05:20 jberger one tick
05:20 jberger nm
05:21 jberger stupid swipe
05:21 nicomen Rocky Balboa?
05:21 jberger I dislike that on this swipe keyboard the backspace is next to the go button
05:22 jberger anyway, I'm off to bed anyway
05:23 jberger if anyone has a suggestion about which Mac to get, I always read the backlog in the morning
05:23 jberger nn all
05:23 preaction mbp 15" retina
05:28 thowe I am using the COnfig plugin and returning a config helper in startup like so:  $self->helper('config' => sub { $self->plugin('Config') } );
05:29 thowe In the line right after that I am trying to use the data from config, but no dice...  Is it not available until after startup has completed?
05:30 franzkafka Hu
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05:39 thowe nm, something I corrected made it workout.
05:42 thowe or not...
05:47 thowe So, my config helper is apparently not available to my database helper...
05:49 thowe https://gist.github.com/thowe/9406e2e1f21718ef2b5a
05:51 thowe Do I need to pass the data from the config helper to the database helper whenever I need it?  There must be a better way.
06:00 thowe OK, so, I just called plugin in the other helper.  That was easy enough.
06:05 thowe I've had too many beers to do this...  Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  I hope you had a nice time if it is something you do.
06:08 thowe grr, OK, one more question....
06:09 bpmedley jberger: I’d get a 15”, probably the $1,999 version
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06:10 thowe if I am using a variable in ep that may not get put into the stash, how do I check to see if it is defined?  if( defined $variable ) just gets me a complaint that $variable "requires explicit package name"
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08:44 Shaeto happy thanksgiving! have a question about routing, i am fighting with CORS, is it possible to add OPTIONS method handler for nested paths ? don't want to add it for every end node
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08:47 franzkafka Hi
08:50 franzkafka With a 15" MBP, can you use multiple Thunderbolt displays?
08:50 franzkafka God dammit, why do I want a MBP all of a sudden?
08:50 franzkafka Marketing is good, I tell ya.
08:51 preaction from what i understand, you can power one of Apple's 4K monitors with an mbp
08:52 preaction i've never used more than one external monitor, though there is also airplay
08:53 franzkafka Ah, dang. I like to have dual monitors, no laptop screen.
08:54 franzkafka I don't understand, I can get dual monitors with airplay?
08:54 preaction dunno. i've only ever used airplay for mirroring
08:55 preaction and the point of a retina mbp is to use the built-in display :p
08:56 franzkafka yeah, I'd use the built-in display when I'm at a coffee shop or something, but not at my desk. Too small.
08:56 preaction http://store.apple.com/us/question/answers/product/MB572Z/B/can-i-connect-my-macbook-pro-to-2-external-monitors/QKJDAKCF9DHDHPYYX <- this says yes
08:56 franzkafka I'd probably just install Linux with Awesome though, so I wouldn't really need the dual monitors necessarily.
08:57 franzkafka Ohh nice! So you can do it then eh?
08:57 franzkafka Alright... I'm still on the fence about getting it, but that is tipping me towards a yes for sure.
08:59 franzkafka Quick question, is non-blocking just another way of saying asynchronous, or is there some subtle difference I am missing here?
08:59 franzkafka With regards to Mojo::IOLoop.
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10:04 jkramer Good morning
10:04 purl For you maybe.
10:04 jkramer Well no, I just wanted to be friendly
10:05 jkramer I have a question about the order of arguments passed to steps in $c->delay.
10:07 jkramer When (in a step) I do: for $key in (@keys) { $delay->pass($key); $self->lookup($key, $delay->begin) }, can I expect that in the arguments to the next step, $key is always right in front of the result of lookup($key)?
10:07 jkramer And if not, what can I do to get the $key along with the result in the next step?
10:26 tempire franzkafka: they're different
10:27 tempire related
10:27 tempire but different
10:27 purl i guess different is always better
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10:34 franzkafka OK, I read the tea pot analogy from sri, was pretty good. It just sounded like asynchronous.
10:35 franzkafka Does Mojo::UserAgent load javascript, etc? Does it follow links on the page, load CSS, all of that? Or does it just grab the content of the page?
10:35 Nei maybe try selenium
10:36 franzkafka Nei, no, I don't want it to. I'm just trying to figure out why this request takes 30+ seconds.
10:39 franzkafka This site really slow for others? http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/list-games/
10:39 franzkafka It's 18s+ response time for me
10:42 franzkafka botsnack
10:42 purl :)
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10:47 jkramer franzkafka: curl -s -o /dev/null 'http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/list-games/'  0.01s user 0.02s system 2% cpu 8.165 total
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12:20 bpmedley frankzkafka: May I ask what app you’re working on?
12:26 jberger jkramer: fyi, purl is a bot
12:27 jberger ok now I'm not going to point fingers, but the time has come for this again
12:28 jberger it is time that everyone (yes I mean you) to go back and re read the doc, starting with Lite and then the Guides in this order
12:28 jberger http://mojolicio.us/perldoc
12:28 purl http://mojolicio.us/perldoc is probably lovely
12:28 * jberger pats purl
12:28 purl how condescending
12:30 jberger as a reminder, I reread these regularly
12:32 jberger as a beginner of course rereading the doc is critical, there's a ton of information to absorb
12:34 jberger as an advanced user, it's important to keep reminded of parts you don't use as often, find bugs, learn about new features etc
13:01 jkramer jberger: Yeah, I know :)
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14:24 sri jberger: 15" mbp retina, or a 13" mba
14:25 * sri is more of a mba fan
14:32 * niczero read that as NBA
14:32 niczero 13 minutes of NBA would be too much for me
14:33 niczero oh, wrong units... that's 13 seconds; yeah, could handle that
14:35 niczero This is embarrassing; most top UK ecommerce sites are currently on their knees #marketing-mess
14:47 crab what are they begging for?
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15:01 niczero better servers
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16:36 jkramer Any ideas why my app is 2-3 times slower when running with hypnotoad behind nginx than when running with morbo (without nginx)? Same server, same code, same databases etc
16:37 jkramer Weird, all of a sudden it's a lot faster. Nevermind.
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18:09 thowe if I am using a variable in an ep template that may not get put into the stash, how do I check to see if it is defined?  "if( defined $variable )" just gets me a complaint that $variable "requires explicit package name"
18:09 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Plugin/DefaultHelpers#stash
18:13 thowe so you are suggesting that I can do "if(defined stash('variable'))"?
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18:31 mpa sri:did you receive my msg?
18:35 sri mpa: as i keep saying, don't /msg me stuff on irc, i don't see it with the new irc client
18:36 mpa dunno about that
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18:42 * hernan604 wonders which client sri uses
18:42 hernan604 i use irssi :)
18:43 hernan604 but have used all of them.. i remember bitchX in the old days... 199x
18:43 hernan604 i remember i met someone at irc, and that guy gave me a shell acc on telia T3 line
18:43 sri irssi+tmux
18:43 hernan604 i didnt even know what to do with it lol
18:44 mpa sri: Would it be possible to store the example certificate outside Mojo itself and/or include a message if you try to listen on ssl w/o a correct one? Reason is a strict separation between the module and example stuff
18:44 hernan604 i use irssi + screen :D
18:44 sri my configuration and theme are terrible though, so i'm not very efficient with it
18:45 sri mpa: i've been discussing that stuff a few weeks back, not particularly interested in it now i'm afraid
18:45 hernan604 i like it, only sometimes if im not aware i easily type stuff in the wrong window
18:45 sri mpa: if you want t a change, please open a pull request
18:46 mpa sri: ok
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20:05 Nei you might want to try the hilight win script for irssi to not miss some stuff, sri
20:07 dparry it seems to me that when doing $conf = $self->plugin('JSONConfig') the json file looked for is not necessarily in the same place as ( Mojo::Home->new )->detect would return, is this by design?
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22:22 * sri has a feeling the topic of more elaborate Mojolicious::Lite DSLs will come up again
22:23 sri just popped up on twitter... and i'm going to mention it in the next part of the interview with josetteorama
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22:23 * sri preemptively made an example https://gist.github.com/kraih/4351674#comment-1346296
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23:31 sri interesting new framework http://www.littlelines.com/blog/2014/07/08/elixir-vs-ruby-showdown-phoenix-vs-rails/
23:31 * sri likes a lot about elixir

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