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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-01-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 tempire But that's why I'm here.
00:00 * tempire glitters
00:00 linagee tempire: illusion of privacy is why Facebook still exists I guess. :(
00:00 tempire Also google.
00:00 linagee that or "there is nothing better that has been pushed in front of everyone's faces"
00:00 tempire And everyone else, really.
00:02 linagee tempire: that kind of scares me if its all about looks and zero about "is it *actually* secure" :(
00:03 tempire Both of those things are orthogonal.
00:03 tempire I want both.
00:03 linagee You can't have both unless everyone wants both.
00:03 tempire You asked what more I wanted.
00:03 tempire That's what I want.
00:04 linagee tempire: you can build a secure CPU. But then, you can't put it into a mobile phone. Because everyone buys Samsung and Apple.
00:21 linagee only consumer demand can do that. but nobody cares, they are about roundy phones instead, so it will never happen.
00:21 sri tempire: that's bullshit, android is not ugly anymore
00:21 sri look at lollipop on a nexus device
00:22 tempire I never meant to imply that android is ugly
00:22 tempire just the dev env
00:22 sri that is a mess indeed
00:22 linagee tempire: apple dev env is pretty ugly too. Apple has it split between two websites that seem to act as one, but not always.
00:22 sri not that xcode is actually pretty
00:22 linagee (Member Center and iTunes Connect or whatever they're called.)
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00:23 linagee and your passwords/teams can be different for both. which is at best confusing.
00:25 sri fwiw. i did really enjoy using convos on android when it worked
00:27 tempire I had planned on moving to convos eventually, though I feel like batman & marcus got bored with it and moved on to other things.
00:27 tempire Which I totes understand
00:28 * sri tries not to start too many projects so he doesn't have to abandon them
00:28 tempire a noble goal
00:29 linagee tempire: use ionic
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00:43 jberger I still <3 convos
00:43 jberger using it right now
00:43 jberger served from my home, using it at $work in $work_city
01:35 preaction i'm trying to keep my $#of_projects to 4-5. i'm at 3
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03:04 genio odd... FATAL:  could not open relation mapping file "global/pg_filenode.map"
03:15 genio psql works just fine.  Mojo::Pg isn't happy for some reason  (off to the docs)
03:21 genio ahh foo:bar@localhost/db   vs foo:bar@/db
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05:30 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/m501jg
05:30 good_news_everyon mojo/master 8deaf7e Sebastian Riedel: scalar context does not need to be enforced anymore
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06:45 batman tempire: not bored. it's just that convos works good enough not to annoy me, so there's not much going on
06:45 batman ...except of a major rewrite :P
06:50 jberger batman: I didn't say anything :)
06:50 batman jberger: hehe... the branch is on github now, so the "cat is out"
06:50 jberger oh cool
06:50 batman at least parts of it
06:50 jberger I will look sometime soon
06:51 batman don't. it's very much "throwing ideas in and see what comes out"
06:51 jberger now I really need to sleep
06:51 jberger oh ok
06:51 jberger understood
06:51 * batman just woke up
06:51 batman 07:51 :)
06:51 jberger 12:51 am :-)
06:52 jberger I've been reworking my port of the pdl site to use rivets.js for data binding
06:52 jberger http://pdlporters.github.io/
06:52 jberger the left sidebar is now entirely rivets
06:53 jberger https://github.com/PDLPorters/pdlporters.github.com/blob/master/content/sidebar.html
06:53 jberger I'm really enjoying it
06:53 batman right. i'm not too fond of those kinds of databindings.
06:53 batman i either want to complete render the app in js (React) or manipulate a well rendered web page.
06:54 batman looks like you put handlebars into the html...?
06:54 jberger rivets is so far the only databinding library that makes sense in my brain
06:54 jberger I'm not saying the others don't make sense, but rivets was like "oh, I get that"
06:55 jberger you can use handlebars, but for the most part you just use rv- attributes
06:55 batman but if js fail, then you will see "{name}" and not something you could render on server side? <h3>{name}</h3>
06:55 jberger yep
06:55 jberger that's true
06:55 jberger I don't have a server side on this project though
06:55 batman right. then i just go crazy and use react instead :) (since js is required anyway)
06:55 jberger this is a "static" page via github pages
06:56 jberger I'll have to look at react again
06:56 jberger maybe it will make more sense now that I understand one thing
06:56 batman react is heavy though. not exactly 6k :D
06:57 jberger rivets has basically just a bind method, and only a few simple template primatives
06:57 jberger you can read the whole doc in a single sitting easily
06:57 batman yeah. go crazy with rivets jberger. i don't think it's a bad choice. just not my cup of tea :)
06:57 jberger oh, no I get that
06:57 jberger I'm just excited about front-end programming for the first time ever
06:58 batman http://timer.thorsen.pm/ is built with react btw... the source code: https://github.com/jhthorsen/timer/tree/master/public/js
06:58 jberger and like I say, maybe I can start to look at other data-binding things now that I understand one of them
06:58 * jberger looks
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06:58 batman it might be a bit too much...
06:58 batman react doesn't "bind". it simply render it all :)
06:59 batman look at the source code of the actual web page. not much html there.
06:59 jberger yikes that's a lot of code :-)
06:59 jberger ok, I'll have to work my way up
07:00 jberger but not now; now I sleep
07:00 jberger o/
07:00 batman o/
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13:31 marcus tempire: We're actually working on next-gen convos using mojo-pg rest and react.
13:31 marcus oh, batman already said
13:32 batman not in detail marcus :)
13:32 marcus [disclaimer: plans and choices may change at any time with no notice]
13:32 batman :D
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15:25 popeshoe is there a "proper" way of starting hypnotoad in the event of a server restart, or the existing instance going down?
15:25 popeshoe reverse proxy through apache if that matters
15:26 moritz popeshoe: yes
15:27 moritz popeshoe: through your operation system's init system
15:28 moritz for example if your OS uses systemd, you can specify a Restart=
15:28 moritz http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.service.html
15:28 hahainternet yeah that is the smart way to go
15:29 moritz (and systemd service files are super easy to write, btw)
15:30 popeshoe ah cool, that sounds p good
15:30 popeshoe I'll take a look at that now, thanks v much
15:30 hahainternet they are, a little frustrating to debug but certainly superior to sysvinit
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16:54 batman sri: have you looked at the request regarding Minion::Backand::Mango ?
17:32 sri batman: just returned from running
17:32 batman aha :)
17:32 batman how's the weather?
17:33 jberger quite cold here
17:33 sri cold
17:34 batman feels like summer her
17:34 jberger still not quite like last year, but bad enough
17:34 batman --- compared to what i expect ;)
17:34 sri weather is strange this year, no snow at all
17:34 purl Try a 4-letter station code (see http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/curcond.html for locations and codes)
17:34 batman global_warming--
17:34 preaction tfw 60652
17:34 preaction ... wrong channel maybe...
17:35 jberger -21C with 32kph winds
17:35 batman that's cold
17:35 batman *brrrr*
17:35 jberger yeah
17:35 jberger many schools closed
17:35 jberger the wife got the day off (she's a teacher)
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17:36 batman makes sense
17:41 tempire ooo, react
17:41 tempire fantastic
17:42 batman tempire: well... it would be fantastic if my browserify module worked :(
17:42 tempire bah
17:42 tempire I use headjs
17:43 sri batman: why use a database for convos?
17:43 batman sri++ # mango
17:43 batman sri: because text files are soooo 1968? :)
17:43 sri if i was rewriting convos, i would just make it super easy to self-host
17:44 batman i could do that if you make Mojo::PubSub :)
17:44 sri single process, flat file config, and flat file channel history
17:45 sri heck, i'd make it fatpackable ;p
17:45 * tempire supports that idea
17:45 batman marcus: didn't we have issues with single process not being fast enough?
17:45 sri just upload a script/tarball, start the process, and you're done
17:46 tempire with that setup, you could run it via curl and a pipe
17:46 tempire Which would be the easiest irc thing of all the things
17:46 sri haha, that would be so cool
17:47 * batman have to go to the theater
17:47 sri batman: if done right, i don't see why there should be performance problems
17:47 batman sri: i will consider it.
17:47 batman marcus: ^^^
17:47 sri you'd block on writing the history files, but that's about it
17:48 sri if there's i/o problems, that should be fixed in Mojo::IOLoop
17:50 sri rofl, perl is growing again on the tiobe index
17:52 sri and ruby is shrinking
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17:53 sri http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
17:53 sri clearly ruby is over!
17:53 sri muhahahaha
17:53 sri COBOL!
17:53 sri the next big thing
17:54 purl the next big thing is BHUI
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17:54 sri no purl, the next big thing is COBOL
17:54 sri purl: no, the next big thing is COBOL
17:54 purl i already had it that way, sri.
17:55 * sri pats purl
17:55 purl don't mess with me
17:58 Grinnz_ lol
18:11 preaction Perl jumped 4 places!
18:11 preaction we're in the top 10 again! i blame mojolicious entirely!
18:11 sri perl is now retro!
18:11 preaction i love how obj-c took a nosedive. that language is terrible.
18:12 Grinnz_ rofl, COBOL
18:12 Grinnz_ what the fuck even if ABAP
18:12 Grinnz_ even is*
18:13 sri SAP language
18:13 sri (it's terrible)
18:14 jberger hahah, any metrics that have COBOL rising are probably bad metrics
18:15 jberger also, many language stats are swayed towards javascript (tiobe included IIRC) because when a project embeds js libraries many language indexers see it as being a javascript project, no matter what the backend code is in
18:15 sri just to be clear, tiobe is a joke
18:16 sri i hope nobody is taking it serious ;p
18:16 jberger https://help.github.com/articles/my-repository-is-marked-as-the-wrong-language/
18:16 jberger oh, I think WE all know that
18:17 jberger but I'm still happy when Perl moves up
18:17 sri indubitably
18:17 jberger because people who don't know read the f***ing thing
18:17 Grinnz_ jberger: github thinks Mojo::JSON::MaybeXS is perl6
18:18 jberger also, more interesting that ruby losing a position is the percent drop in PHP
18:19 jberger which is much greater than the percent drop in ruby
18:19 Grinnz_ we can only hope people realize theyre losing money with that crap
18:20 Grinnz_ PHP that is, i dont know enough to diss ruby :P
18:20 jberger Grinnz_: I don't even see the language stuff on github anymore! where do I look?
18:20 Grinnz_ https://github.com/Grinnz?tab=repositories
18:20 sri rofl
18:21 sri mojolicious is apparently 24.7% perl6! https://github.com/kraih/mojo
18:21 Grinnz_ lol
18:21 sri almost there!
18:21 purl Just hold them off for a few more seconds!
18:22 jberger Grinnz: so is my (unreleased) Minion-Command-minion-monitor (p6)
18:22 jberger but for example, Galileo is marked as Javascript!
18:23 sri traitor!
18:23 jberger (I have to pull in all of jQuery-ui for like on stupid thing)
18:23 jberger *one
18:23 * jberger hangs head in shame
18:24 Grinnz_ lol
18:28 preaction maybe cdn that stuff instead?
18:28 preaction but i've also got problems like that. i think a couple of my things are "ruby"
18:33 salparadise so can I spawn a simple REST listening service with a oneliner? 'perl -Mojo -E ....' anyone have an example, I just want to test a REST API
18:33 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/ojo#a
18:34 salparadise ty sri
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18:49 Grinnz_ sri: where did you go to find that statistic? i remember seeing percentages like that somewhere (but the link doesn't reflect it)
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19:26 preaction Grinnz_: click the colored bar, it's solid blue
19:27 preaction below the "9068 commits, 5 branches, 471 releases" stats bar
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19:39 Grinnz_ aha
19:39 Grinnz_ it thinks the test files are perl6 lol
19:40 Grinnz_ Mojo::JSON::MaybeXS has 4 test files and one pm file, so thats why :P
19:43 jberger Grinnz_: oh, I wonder if .t isn't listed in its definitions of p5 but is in p6
19:44 Grinnz_ perhaps
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20:02 preaction it used to be p5, they might have changed it
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20:37 jberger OMG! Passing windows reports on Mojo::IOLoop::ForkCall!
20:37 jberger http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=Mojo-IOLoop-ForkCall+0.16
20:38 preaction wtf?!
20:38 preaction they did a point release back to 5.16?
20:38 preaction those are some weird warnings
20:39 jberger I'm ok with attempt to free unreferenced scalar
20:39 jberger windows used to abort() on the mojolicious.t test
20:40 jberger abort(3)
20:40 jberger which was completely unfixable on the perl side
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20:57 Grinnz_ lol
20:59 Grinnz_ my one passing test for Mojo::Reactor::POE has the same warning: http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/69d9d4bd-6bf5-1014-a907-928e80f94389
20:59 Grinnz_ one passing win32 test*
21:00 Grinnz_ actually, the only test that ran, because the only other win32 tests were on perl 5.8
21:00 Grinnz_ or 5.10.0 lol
21:05 sri welcome to the club! http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/1451867b-6bf9-1014-926d-6c0c3b82ba95
21:10 Grinnz_ File::Temp not so nice on win32? lol
21:12 jberger you think it's File::Temp?
21:12 jberger I'm pretty sure it's fork emulation somehow
21:13 sri only seen it after switching to DBM::Deep
21:14 Grinnz_ i was just assuming, i guess something using the temporary files could cause those errors as well
21:15 Grinnz_ namely, windows gneerally doesn't let you delete files "in use"
21:25 sri that's a different error
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