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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-02-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 sri bikeshed question
00:04 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a7a160bdf020609b2a8c
00:05 sri anyone got a better idea for those debug messages?
00:05 sri preferably not longer than that
00:05 Grinnz_ thats for adding and removing timers?
00:06 sri it's -- $id -- $$ ($num_of_concurrent_connections)
00:06 Grinnz_ oh
00:06 sri it's add and remove connections
00:06 sri -- for remove and ++ fro add
00:06 Grinnz_ maybe just a word so it doesnt blend in with other various output
00:07 sri which words?
00:07 purl which words are those?  ;-)
00:07 Grinnz_ connection
00:07 purl connection is, like, read-only
00:07 Grinnz_ purl: forget connection
00:07 purl Grinnz_: I forgot connection
00:07 sri but how do you differentiate between add and remove?
00:07 Grinnz_ the + and - works fine, that part is easy
00:08 bpmedley sri: https://gist.github.com/brianmed/d90efce8c54f43d1589d  <— In can only think to slightly change the format
00:08 sri those are log messages
00:09 bpmedley I see.  You want to differntiate between the log messages and the debug; my bad.
00:09 sri the actual messages come from MOJO_IOLOOP_DEBUG
00:09 sri that's correct
00:09 Grinnz_ conn++ / conn-- ?
00:10 Grinnz_ without any word it just looks like line noise is all :P
00:10 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/d90efce8c54f43d1589d <— updated
00:10 sri i'd really like to avoid making those debug lines span more than one line :)
00:12 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm#L219
00:12 bpmedley Is the — prefix desired?
00:13 sri yes
00:13 Adura ^ v, one less char! No - to look like a separator.
00:15 sri actually can't say i like the look of this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/321ef6ae602ce3d90cb2
00:17 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/d90efce8c54f43d1589d <- Thoughts?
00:18 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/UserAgent.pm#L343
00:18 sri trying to stick to a theme
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00:19 sri i suppose a >>> and <<< prfix would make the point of a connection coming and a connection going out ;p
00:19 Grinnz_ could work
00:20 sri including timers actually sucks
00:21 sri because they often bypass ioloop completely
00:21 bpmedley https://gist.github.com/brianmed/d90efce8c54f43d1589d <— Do you like the [1] or (1) better?
00:22 sri everything else uses (), so i suppose that wins
00:22 sri there's also the differentiating from log messages aspect
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00:24 bpmedley I think >>> and <<< will make more sense to users, even tho ++ and — are “code”.  They’ll allow for easy visual scanning of the logs; although, that’s just my opinion.. :)
00:24 sri this one looks funny https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7b106153747a50ea335b
00:24 sri it's not a user feature
00:25 sri those debug messages exist to debug the web servers
00:25 sri make sure connection limits are respected, and there are no timing errors
00:25 sri accepts happen fast enough
00:25 sri multi accept works... and so on
00:25 bpmedley I see.  I wonder if adding a word to the debug line would give more context?
00:26 jberger I prefer the shed green
00:26 jberger check that, demand!
00:27 sri yea, this is totally a bikeshed :)
00:27 bpmedley ANSI coloRs of all the Things
00:27 sri don't hate the bikeshed
00:27 Grinnz_ oh god, ansi colored debug output
00:27 jberger don't hate it, paint it green
00:27 bpmedley As an aside, have people seen the command line utility jq?
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00:27 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Njwn
00:27 good_news_everyon mojo/master 9e637b3 Sebastian Riedel: slightly different format for debug messages
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00:28 sri actually, i doubt anyone but me will ever look at those messages :)
00:28 jberger bpmedley: preaction is writing a yq :-)
00:28 bpmedley sorry, yq?
00:28 jberger yaml
00:28 preaction jq, but for yaml
00:28 bpmedley Cool.
00:28 preaction but it's far beyond that now, http://metacpan.org/pod/ETL::Yertl
00:28 preaction yq has languished in the face of the other utilities
00:29 sri you had me at ysql
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02:17 Grinnz I just figured out why ; is accepted sometimes as a query string separator because of this horrible site that another team at my job works on
02:17 Grinnz &amp;
02:17 * Grinnz buries head in hands
02:21 preaction it's not accepted anymore though
02:21 preaction MS tools frequently neglect to use it properly, and it's not part of the what-wg's specs
02:22 sri was it ever actually in a manstream spec?
02:22 sri *mainstream
02:25 sri html4 doesn't appear to mention it either http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.4.1
02:27 Grinnz probably not
02:27 Grinnz XHTML, if anything
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02:29 meredith http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/appendix/notes.html#h-B.2.2
02:29 meredith best i've got
02:29 Grinnz lol
02:29 meredith i've known it was a thing to support but honestly didn't know what spec ever mentioned it either
02:29 sri :)
02:30 Grinnz basically, "because of PHP"
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02:37 * jberger hurls
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03:45 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AeZc
03:45 good_news_everyon mojo/master 582dcd3 Sebastian Riedel: avoid floating point fun in reactor
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03:46 Grinnz our app is now running officially running hypnotoad in production :)
03:47 preaction nice
03:47 Grinnz sri, i saw other reactors doing that roundup thing, i guess thats important? lol
03:50 sri gets rid of some minor cpu spikes
03:50 sri it's the clean thing to do
03:50 sri otherwise your poll() can wake up a tiny bit too fast and you spin around a few times until the timer actually fires
03:51 Grinnz "proxy: transport protocol not specified" does this mean apache is screwing up or something?
03:51 Grinnz there shouldn't be anything proxying to hypnotoad except apache
03:51 sri i've profiled it and seen the reactor spin around up to 10 times :o
03:51 Grinnz heh
03:52 sri one thing i noticed is that people seem to favor select() over usleep()
03:52 sri wonder of there's a good reason
03:52 Grinnz hm
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03:59 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Aec4
03:59 good_news_everyon mojo/master 2705bd3 Sebastian Riedel: Time::HiRes is not used anymore
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04:01 Grinnz nevermind.. the proxy thing is from that retarded SOAP::Lite module someone is using
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05:07 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AegT
05:07 good_news_everyon mojo/master d47d263 Sebastian Riedel: do not round up 0
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05:21 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Aeao
05:21 good_news_everyon mojo/master 6894a38 Sebastian Riedel: the correct term is option
05:21 good_news_everyon left #mojo
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05:22 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v5.80 at e77894b: http://git.io/AeaD
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05:24 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AeVU
05:24 good_news_everyon mojo/master 47f5a95 Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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05:24 sri \o/
05:24 cpan_mojo Mojolicious 5.80 by Sebastian Riedel - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-5.80
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05:34 Oleg Grinnz_: heh, i started https://github.com/olegwtf/p5-Mojo-SMTP-Client few days ago. But work still in progress :)
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05:57 marmez Good morning Mojo people!
05:57 marmez I'm doing a Mojolicious app by TDD.
05:57 marmez And I'm not sure how to test it properly.
05:58 marmez After I solved testing of database connections there is another challenge: proper testing of Mojo app.
05:58 marmez Well how to do that? Test everything from stash, everything from params, every element on a page?
05:58 marmez Or do something like that basic tests shown at Example applications Mojo wiki page:
05:58 marmez https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Example-applications
05:58 marmez ?
06:03 avenj I assume you've seen Test::Mojo ? that makes it pretty easy to test interaction with your application without much headache
06:04 marmez avenj: of course I use Test::Mojo and Test::More together
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06:09 marmez avenj: Test::Mojo plus Test::More are wonderful
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06:12 marmez I think here:
06:12 marmez https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Example-applications
06:12 marmez are shown only basic tests, aren't?
06:23 Grinnz marmez, take a component, test possible inputs, check the outputs
06:24 Grinnz unit testing is unit testing regardless of the scale
06:25 marmez Grinnz: so I don't need to test every element presence on a page?
06:27 sri lol http://tmikov.blogspot.de/2015/02/you-dont-like-googles-go-because-you.html
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06:27 preaction wow
06:39 preaction wait. that's all true? what the hell?
06:40 preaction changing the case of an identifier exports it?
06:40 Grinnz lol
06:48 Grinnz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU2TA4lSuYI#t=2m20s
06:49 Grinnz this is what the pakleds were after all along
06:49 marmez Grinnz: thank you for answer, I'll do that
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08:45 reneeb jberger: I'm (perl-academy.de) willing to sponsor Mojoconf 2015 (500 €). Please drop me a line (info@perl-academy.de) to discuss the details...
08:57 batman reneeb: cool! :)
08:58 marcusr reneeb <3
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09:26 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-HTMLTemplateProRenderer 0.03 by Bruni Emiliano - http://metacpan.org/release/EBRUNI/Mojolicious-Plugin-HTMLTemplateProRenderer-0.03
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09:43 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-HTMLTemplateProRenderer 0.04 by Bruni Emiliano - http://metacpan.org/release/EBRUNI/Mojolicious-Plugin-HTMLTemplateProRenderer-0.04
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09:47 Snelius wait for 0.05
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12:05 poletti hi all
12:05 poletti just wondering… is there some way to make “./myapp.pl daemon” write all the logs on STDERR instead of the log file?
12:46 batman poletti: rmdir ./log
12:48 poletti brilliant! thanks
12:48 batman :)
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13:20 jberger that article had my problem with go, declaring the interface
13:20 jberger reneeb++ I'll pass on the word
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15:01 sri reneeb++
15:04 nicomen so, which direction do we send money to for mojoconf15?
15:06 jberger reneeb: email sent, and thanks again
15:07 jberger nicomen: well my bank account number is ..... :-)
15:07 jberger not quite ready for announcement, but soon I hope
15:07 jberger unless you are looking to sponsor
15:08 nicomen well yeah
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15:20 sri \o/
15:23 jberger nicomen++
15:26 marcusr I wonder if we could get ny.pm on board somehow to be the actual hosting organization for mojoconf. Might make things a bit easier with bank accounts and such.
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15:58 jberger batman: were you going to set ka yi up with a convos account on one of your instances?
15:59 marcusr bow down before the one you serve / you're going to get what you deserve
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16:02 batman jberger: yeah, i can do that...
16:02 batman marcusr: do you know if dogfood can connect to irc.perl.org now?
16:04 marcusr batman: it can't
16:04 batman ok...
16:04 marcusr Closing Link: dogfood.convos.by (Banned)
16:04 batman jberger: i can't guaranty the stability of my own server, but if you think it's a good idea, i can set it up
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16:05 jberger eh
16:05 jberger I could just tell her to install an irc client
16:05 batman :)
16:06 batman jberger: i think we should create a github project for mojoconf2015 as well. what do you think?
16:06 batman i can even make it private
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16:07 batman we could even use github pages to make a landing page with basic info...
16:07 batman we = me and tempire..?
16:07 batman i can't do it on my own. i simply don't have enough time :(
16:07 jberger batman: you have done your time
16:08 sri yapc::eu has a nice act template this year http://act.yapc.eu/ye2015/
16:08 jberger I'm not actually coordinating either
16:08 batman hehe. but what about the idea? yay or nay?
16:08 batman sri: but it's still act.
16:08 batman sri: my internals start bleeding when working with act :(
16:08 jberger it would be easy enough to have a static site, preaction has a new tool for that anyway
16:09 marcusr please don't make batman bleed
16:09 batman jberger: i think we should make it even more static than using a tool. i want it to be sooooo static we can edit it on github.
16:09 jberger but how does that work with scheduling/payment etc?
16:09 Grinnz http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Batman-Pushes-Through-The-Pain-In-The-Rain-In-The-Dark-Knight.gif
16:09 batman jberger: not sure. i was thinking a preliminary site just to get something online
16:10 batman does "preliminary site" make sense...? :/
16:10 jberger yeah, I know what you mean
16:10 batman \o/
16:10 batman next step is 1) act 2) a page on digitalocean or something.
16:11 batman #2 = more coding, but less bleeding.
16:11 batman i'm exaggerating, but it's close enough to how i feel about the subject
16:11 Grinnz i've heard of this cool perl framework you could use
16:11 batman Grinnz: hehe
16:12 batman 2: we can use my digitalocean account with a restart hook from github, for updates.
16:12 batman but...it does require more coding
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16:17 batman right... so no "nay" or "yay" :(
16:17 marcusr sway
16:19 batman right. best feedback in the history of man kind.
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16:51 sri no problems reported yet for 5.80 \o/
16:55 jberger sri: do I remember that there is some funkiness use Mojo::URL with mailto?
16:55 jberger using
16:56 Grinnz does mailto really count as a url?
16:57 jberger maybe not
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17:20 jberger https://twitter.com/angrypublisher/status/565215304935292928/photo/1
17:21 reneeb jberger: I didn't get an email yet, which address did you sent it to?
17:21 jberger reneeb: I didn't send it to you
17:22 jberger I sent it to the coordinator
17:22 jberger I'm not coordinating mojoconf, I'm just the designated core contact person
17:22 jberger riche is running mojoconf
17:22 reneeb ok...
17:26 jberger reneeb: I pm-ed you
17:28 Robertof Hey guys, just a question
17:28 Robertof I have two different controllers, one used to handle a request on a certain route (let's call it Controller1) and another one that handles a websocket on another path (ControllerWS)
17:28 Robertof I want to notify the clients connected to the websocket when someone requests the route handled by Controller1. I am currently using Mojo::IOLoop->instance->reactor to register an event handler from ControllerWS and to emit the same event from Controller1 when the route is triggered. It works, but I'm not sure if this is the best solution. Any advice?
17:30 sri one way to do it https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mojolicious/c56EygmvMPU/H9sR14O2Ti8J
17:30 Grinnz Robertof, for one that won't work on a preforked daemon
17:30 Grinnz so you'll need something like what sri linked, or some db type solution
17:31 sri batman: maybe Mojo::Redis2 should bundle the same example app
17:32 Robertof uhm, cool
17:32 batman sri: this one? https://github.com/kraih/mojo-pg/blob/v1.09/examples/chat.pl
17:32 sri yea, the original jberger wrote used Mojo::Redis2
17:32 * jberger is the original jberger :-)
17:33 batman ok. can you make a PR jberger?
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17:33 jberger sure
17:33 jberger better than it living in my gists
17:33 sri will the real jberger please stand up
17:33 batman cool! :)
17:33 * jberger bumps head
17:35 Grinnz YOU'RE NOT THE REAL JBERGER
17:35 jberger :o
17:36 Robertof thanks for the link sri by the way; so if I want to support preforked daemons I have to use postgresql, right?
17:36 sri any pub/sub syste,
17:36 sri *system
17:38 Robertof oh okay, and are there implementations of pub/sub systems in perl other than Mojo::Pg? just because I'm not currently using a DB
17:38 sri i suspect we'll have a second canonical example in a few minutes in Mojo::Redis2 :)
17:39 Robertof oh, nice
17:39 Robertof I guess Redis is indeed more lightweight than pgsql :p
17:40 sri if you don't need a real database it indeed is
17:41 jbob sri: Hi, i was asking yesterday regarding idle CPU usage with hypnotoad. I've now tested the git version and the problem seems fixed. Sorry for the delay but I was working on something else
17:41 sri jbob: \o/
17:41 sri jbob: it's also on cpan now as mojolicious 5.80
17:42 tempire If I'm involved in the site, I don't want to use act.
17:42 tempire It's horrible.
17:42 sri i suspect the ideal architecture would be to accept connections in the manaer process and pass them to the workers through a pipe
17:43 sri s/manaer/manager/
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17:43 jbob great, then I can switch back to the cpan version
17:44 punter Is Mango good for blocking access?
17:45 sri too bad this functionality does not exist in core perl https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::FDPass
17:47 jberger batman: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojo-redis2/pull/6
17:47 jberger my original uses experimental signatures
17:48 jberger they aren't necessary, but I think they are cute
17:48 Grinnz lol
17:52 * sri likes signatures a lot, but doesn't use them in examples yet
17:53 sri (so far only in marketing material... with a use 5.20.0;)
17:54 batman jberger: should there be a link from the POD to that example?
17:54 batman jberger: and did you perltidy your code according to the .perltidyrc? :)
17:54 jberger ha! nope
17:54 batman ;D
17:55 batman it's ok. don't bother
17:55 batman but maybe a mentioning in the doc could be nice..?
17:55 jberger perhaps
17:55 jberger I don't usually reference examples in the main pod, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't
17:56 batman ok. that's cool.
17:56 batman ;)
17:56 jberger tidyed
17:58 batman Thanks. And did you test it? I mean, mojo-redis != pg
17:58 batman Not unit test, tried it out...
17:59 sri how does it perform with mojolicious 5.80?
18:01 * sri does not use "%= javascript begin"
18:01 sri <script> is much easier to type and often gets proper syntax highlighting
18:02 * sri thinks the helper is now mostly just for the url_for magic of %= javascript '/js/foo.js'
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18:06 nicomen tempire: I think the benefit for users for re-using usernames, signing up in talks, and the payment system kind of forces you to use ACT even if you don't want to.
18:06 polettix hi again
18:06 purl oh, you're back!
18:06 nicomen tempire: BUT, there was a project to make ACT 2 in Dancer
18:06 polettix I receive a request and I can get the $req object. Is it possible to reuse it to send another request via Mojo::UserAgent? I’m planning only on adding some things to the body, so I’d like to preserve the rest (method and headers)
18:07 polettix (pointers to the right docs are good of course!)
18:07 tempire It's fine if you've used it before.
18:07 tempire But it's like most Perler-designed interfaces - designed without any concept of user flow.
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18:12 genio https://www.mnot.net/blog/2015/02/18/http2
18:16 nicomen tempire: it sucks most animals' genitalias
18:17 nicomen I think maybe giving it a new approach would be wise
18:17 jberger its been nice to completely ignore anyone that doesn't have massive server farms, who are clearly smarter than you
18:17 nicomen I bet there are hordes of people not organizing events because of its suckage
18:18 jberger a mostly static page (statocles + github pages) and some kind of external management site would be fine in my mind
18:18 jberger not sure how much $ those charge
18:18 jberger hell, just paypal or some such to take payments is probably enough right?
18:18 tempire I don't know statocles. But a github page with stripe would be ideal.
18:18 tempire STRIPE
18:18 tempire Paypal is the devil
18:19 tempire But as an alternate option, sure.
18:19 jberger sure, whichever, I have never needed to take payments
18:19 nicomen jbob: that's because you are so cheap
18:19 jberger tempire: http://chicago.pm.org/
18:19 nicomen oops jberger*
18:19 jberger tempire: that's built with statocles now
18:20 jberger preaction's new toy
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19:36 till hello, can you tell me how to get rid of this warning when running my mojo tests?
19:36 till Use of uninitialized value $IO::Socket::Socks::ISA[1] in constant array element at /Library/Perl/5.18/IO/Socket/Socks.pm line 1913.
19:36 till IO::Socket::Socks is up to date. (0.66)
19:37 sri i don't see that warning
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20:12 sri hahahaha
20:12 purl LOLCON 4 reached.
20:13 * jberger pushes purl down the stairs
20:13 purl Hey! *thump* ow! *bang* argh! *bam* son of a *thump* *crunch* whimper...
20:13 sri so people in the http wg are upset now because the header table won't get fixed for the final rfc
20:13 jberger (oh the whimper always makes me a little sad)
20:13 genio yea, she never bounces happily anymore.  poor purl
20:14 pink_mist it's the *crunch* that gets to me
20:15 Grinnz_ that's just a dorito someone left on the steps
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20:15 * sri pushes jberger down the stairs
20:15 jberger Hey! *thump* ow! *bang* argh! *bam* son of a *thump* *crunch* whimper...
20:38 genio The whimper coming from you just doesn't have the same effect on me.
20:42 * sri pats purl
20:42 * purl purrs
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21:27 sri http://www.ietf.org/blog/2015/02/http2-approved/
21:30 Grinnz_ oh boy
21:30 marcusr :-o
21:31 sri still looking for volunteers *hint hint* https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/423
21:31 * sri will not be able to work on it in the near future
21:46 sri *crickets*
21:47 Adura I'm waiting till http3, or hbtp.
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22:53 sri hmm, looks like batman has not merged the chat.pl example
22:58 jberger sri: how do you start a bunch of minion workers at boot?
22:59 jberger I've been setting up my hypnotoad rc.conf
22:59 sri no built in way
22:59 jberger certainly not built in
22:59 jberger I'm curious if you have a mechanism you are using?
22:59 sri afraid not
23:00 sri so far i've used minion only small scale myself
23:03 * sri is surprised how easy it is to subclass Mojo::Server::Prefork and use it as a generic way to have a pool of event loops
23:04 sri without the accept mutex there are absolutely no problems anymore, just overload the start method for whatever you want to start and done
23:06 sri the app is still used for logging, but that could just be the default Mojo::HelloWorld
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23:16 sri jberger: re defining which parts of the api are *stable*, the best way is of course to write a book :D
23:17 jberger :-P
23:17 jberger it's not for lack of desire
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23:26 jberger hmmmmm, Minion::Monitor could have an api which does fork+exec to start a worker
23:26 * jberger ponders
23:27 sri [Start a new worker] [Stop a worker]
23:28 jberger yes, both
23:28 sri i think sidekiq has that
23:28 jberger could even have an "autostart" argument
23:29 jberger so that rc.conf could start the minion monitor and kick off a few workers
23:29 jberger --autostart=3
23:29 sri doesn't work distributed though
23:30 jberger ah, right, there is the rub
23:30 sri ideally i suppse you'd have a manager process on each server, forking off minions
23:30 jberger I can't seem to find much documentation on freebsd's rc system for starting multiple instances of the same process
23:31 jberger right, that's kinda what I was seeing minion monitor doing, but you are right, that is too global
23:35 jberger well
23:35 jberger it works in concept
23:35 jberger you have a monitor on each host
23:36 jberger when you look at jobs and workers you see everything
23:36 jberger but to manage workers you have to be on the hosts monitor
23:37 Grinnz_ unless you can ... command monitors
23:37 Grinnz_ who monitors the monitors?
23:39 jberger http://asianitinerary.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Clouded-Monitor-Lizard.jpg
23:39 cfedde the monitor
23:39 purl the monitor is probably defective.  Did you get optional extended warranty?  If not, mjl69_'s brother-in-law will pretend to fix it for about $500.
23:39 jberger hahaha purl++
23:40 Grinnz_ http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/804/850/999.gif
23:48 sri each could have a rest api, and then you could make minion jobs request more/less workers :)
23:48 Grinnz_ I NEED ALL THE WORKERS
23:52 bpmedley jberger: Did you get your minion startup question answered?

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