The web in a box - a next generation web framework for the Perl programming language

IRC log for #mojo, 2015-02-25

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 riche jberger: when you say "she should use convos" ... I went to the convos site ... I don't think she would have any idea about what to do next
00:10 riche is there a convos setup for #mojo?
00:25 riche nevermind i got it figured ... didn't think "demo" meant "something that can be used"
00:25 riche but ... can't connect to magnet ... anyways
00:47 jberger no the demo was actually banned from irc perl org
00:48 jberger but small personal or managed site installations are still permitted
00:48 jberger it's just a mojo app
00:48 jberger it need redis
00:48 jberger that's all
00:48 jberger riche: ^^
00:49 sri "that's all"
00:49 sri seriously?
00:49 purl is that for real?
00:50 jberger apt-get install redis was all I needed
00:50 jberger but yes they are working on a non redis version
00:50 sri you don't make non tech person set up a redis installation just to be able to connect to irc
00:50 sri that's insane
00:51 jberger I'm telling riche
00:51 jberger they could have a site install
00:51 jberger nm
00:51 riche lol
00:51 jberger textual works to
00:51 riche it's okay
00:51 jberger too
00:52 riche sounds nice but I've had a hell day with websphere portal and jython so I'm just reading documentation now
01:00 sri any more opinions on app->routes->without_formats;?
01:00 jontaylor joined #mojo
01:02 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d1a4bae8cb9b8efd057b
01:02 sri that was the updated tutorial section
01:07 sri it's a pretty big section for a tutorial
01:07 sri only other section with 3 full examples is under/group
01:09 riche but i think it's good content ... I clearly understand what to do after reading
01:09 davido___ joined #mojo
01:09 jberger I have no objection to being able to turn off detection, and I do like the tutorial, very easy to understand
01:10 sri the old one for comparison https://gist.github.com/anonymous/26443a7034b971926400
01:10 sri (only part 3 changed)
01:11 sri app->routes->without_formats does not yet exist
01:11 jberger right, I remember the patch
01:11 sri right now you need "under [format => 0];"
01:13 sri there is no way i would teach both solutions
01:14 sri the whole [format => 0] thing has the advantage that it teaches a more versatile solution, it shows you how to selectively disable format detection for a subset of your routes
01:14 sri the disadvantage however is that [format => 0] is actually a special case, no other constraint than format can be inherited
01:14 sri this might give the wrong impression
01:15 sri so, the question becomes, do we want it to be easier ti disable format detection for all routes or for subsets?
01:16 sri and are we ok with using something like "app->routes->without_format" in the tutorial
01:17 sri fun fact, in full app routes, you can use ->without_formats also on subsets
01:18 sri my $inactive = $r->under("/")->without_formats; $inactive->...;
01:19 riche joined #mojo
01:20 jberger is it possible to re-enable them again?
01:21 jberger via a method call?
01:21 sri no
01:21 jberger disable_formats/enable_formats ?
01:21 sri nope
01:21 sri the value is inherited whenever a route is created
01:22 sri and passed along to its children
01:22 sri it propagates through the tree
01:23 sri you can only enable it again for each route object individually
01:23 sri which is essentially setting a new $route->pattern->constraints->{format} value
01:24 sri delete $route->pattern->constraints->{format};
01:24 sri that sets it to the default
01:24 sri and that is only possible before the regexes have been compiled on first use
01:27 jberger but a child can re-enable?
01:27 sri sure
01:27 jberger what is the original default value, meaning any?
01:27 sri nothing
01:28 sri see above
01:28 sri delete $route->pattern->constraints->{format};
01:28 jberger so could enable_format do that for a child route?
01:28 jberger I must not be getting something here?
01:28 sri yes
01:29 sri but you couldn't call it on the root
01:29 sri which makes it useless for lite apps
01:29 sri in case it's not clear, i'm more worried about lite apps here
01:30 sri why would you want to reenable it anyway?
01:31 jberger symmetry mostly
01:31 sri i don't see the use case
01:31 jberger I don't know why people would, then again, I'm still having a hard enough time understanding why they want to turn it off :-P
01:32 jberger we don't need to get back into that though
01:32 sri this is the routing guide recipe https://gist.github.com/anonymous/1424d8bc07ac1cff9033
01:39 sri it feels like we are the only ones who actually care about formats
01:40 jberger Grinnz says they were confusing at first, as does riche, but I don't think this is going to change that more than the documentation fixes
01:40 sri and you seem to care about it as a talk topic, not because you're actually using it
01:40 jberger I do use them
01:40 jberger all the time
01:40 sri i'm thinking about removal again :)
01:40 jberger -1
01:40 purl -1
01:41 jberger and tempire is -1 also
01:41 jberger seriously, I use it constantly
01:41 sri we can't seem to get a coherent tutorial/guide section together for it
01:42 sri it just doesn't fit
01:42 jberger I disagree, and we have already added new documentation to Routing and FAQ
01:42 * pink_mist uses formats too, fwiw
01:42 pink_mist but I wouldn't really be too bothered if they went away
01:43 jberger (purl is -1 also)
01:43 jberger said so right there :)
01:43 sri the indifferent majority ;)
01:43 sri that's the thing, something that takes up the most space in the tutorial should be really good
01:43 jberger I believe it is
01:44 tempire I'm confused as to why this is an issue.
01:44 sri you can't tell me "under [format => 0];" is an awesome example
01:44 jberger those examples you showed from other frameworks were gross
01:45 jberger the use of the functional under is much more confusing that the fact that it is turning off format detection
01:45 sri well, i always hated formats, they were a *huge* pita to implement right
01:45 sri like REAAAALLY HATE THEM
01:46 asarch joined #mojo
01:47 jberger one line turns them off, and the opposite, enabling formats without the feature involves mangling every route in your router
01:47 sri right now, the only way to turn off format detection in a lite app for more than one route is "under [format => 0];" and "app->routes->pattern->constraints({format => 0})"
01:47 jberger ok then, make a lite function 'without_formats';
01:48 sri that's inconsistent with full apps :p
01:48 jberger so is under
01:48 jberger well, under/group
01:49 sri under exists for both
01:49 jberger having it change out the in-effect router is different
01:49 sri or do you mean in addition to the without_format method?
01:50 jberger I have no problem with the without_format method
01:50 jberger and you are welcome to add a without_format function in lite to make that easier
01:51 sri ok, just to be absolutely clear, i have no problem with the method, just how we are going to teach formats in the docs
01:52 jberger that additional tutorial entry was fine
01:55 jberger one other question
01:56 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
01:56 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AQM0
01:56 good_news_everyon mojo/master fe37250 Sebastian Riedel: mention more details
01:56 good_news_everyon left #mojo
01:56 jberger having optional .html is probably extremely widely used, without people ever knowing that they are using format detection
01:56 jberger I think if you would remove format detection, THAT would be the thing we would hear about
01:57 jberger I guess that's more of a statement than a question :-P
01:59 * sri shrugs
01:59 Grinnz sri, format detection doesn't affect static rendering right?
01:59 sri no
01:59 Grinnz k, thats the only reason i'd really mind lol
02:00 sri static happens before the router even starts
02:09 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
02:09 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AQHk
02:09 good_news_everyon mojo/master 4d9621b Sebastian Riedel: mention that we use a special type of restrictive placeholder
02:09 good_news_everyon left #mojo
02:09 sri is this really easy to understand? http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Formats
02:11 sri no clue if there's a better description for "a special type of restrictive placeholder"
02:11 sri but it is what it is, and special case that only format has
02:11 sri s/d//
02:11 sri a/n//
02:11 sri -.-
02:18 zivester joined #mojo
02:24 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
02:24 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AQdv
02:24 good_news_everyon mojo/master e52cc85 Sebastian Riedel: use more consistent terminology in Mojo::DOM
02:24 good_news_everyon left #mojo
02:25 sri jberger, batman, marcus, tempire, crab: are we really happy with how this looks like now? http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Formats
02:25 sri i would really like to end the formats topic once and for all... but it's so hard to get more opinions
02:26 sri fact is, that's the biggest section in the tutorial, is that really what we want?
02:29 Grinnz i just discovered you can click the raptor tail on the raptor not found page
02:29 Grinnz hehe
02:30 preaction i like the format docs. and it seems like the under docs, right above it, are longer (at least with the examples)
02:30 sri smartass! ;p
02:31 sri purl: smartass?
02:31 purl dumbass.
02:31 sri :o
02:35 sri but you're of course not wrong... it's 85 vs 62 lines
02:36 preaction wooo!
02:40 klapperl joined #mojo
02:41 sri damn, what's up with zefram? http://code.activestate.com/lists/perl5-porters/218219/
02:41 sri "The perpetuation of this misunderstanding of signatures as a funny kind"
02:41 sri of prototype is rather making me regret implementing signature syntax
02:42 sri argh, copypasta fail :(
02:47 ilbot2 joined #mojo
02:47 Topic for #mojo is now ???? hear me roar | http://mojolicio.us | http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
02:52 tempire I can dig it.
02:52 tempire (the format detection)
02:56 Grinnz is there a reasonable way i could load an app's configuration (normally loaded from the Config plugin) in a script completely separate from the app?
02:56 Grinnz not really important but it would be convenient for some scripts i'm writing
02:57 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Application-embedding
02:57 Grinnz sri++
02:57 Grinnz awesome
02:57 sri marcus, batman, crab: that leaves you three
03:01 Grinnz well batman apparently will be asleep for another 7 hours
03:01 Grinnz lol
03:01 sri i should call him
03:07 noganex_ joined #mojo
03:26 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
03:26 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A7TA
03:26 good_news_everyon mojo/master cc883b8 Sebastian Riedel: mapping is a better name than types
03:26 good_news_everyon left #mojo
03:26 sri and another one :)
03:26 sri app->types->types
03:39 crab sri: what should i look at?
03:39 crab ok, Tutorial#Formats?
03:39 jberger crab: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Formats
03:40 crab i think it looks good
03:41 jberger sri: what is http pipelining? do we support it?
03:42 jberger its being discussed at length for the framework benchmarks stuff
03:53 crab http pipelining is where you send multiple requests without waiting for answers
03:54 sri crab: the formats question is if that's really what we want, or should formats be simplified somehow, or even removed
03:54 crab http/1.1 allows you to send more than one request over the same connection anyway, so this just doing it without waiting
03:55 sri jberger: we support it indirectly, by buffering the next request, but we do not process it before the first request has a response
03:56 sri it's what most web servers do
03:56 crab sri: what i see now in Tutorial#Formats is what *i* want. i think it's simple, and the way the documentation describes it is straightforward, starting with what happens by default, how to control it, and how to turn it off. i would be opposed to removing formats, because i use them.
03:56 sri crab: thanks, that was helpful
03:57 crab has there been some suggestion that formats are too complicated, or is this just a routine re-evaluation?
03:57 jberger hmm, I should have crab vet my answers :-)
03:57 sri this proposal had been brought up https://github.com/kraih/mojo/compare/without_formats
03:57 sri with a more global way to disable format detection
03:58 sri app->routes->without_formats;
03:58 sri instead of "under [format => 0];"
03:58 crab hmm.
03:58 sri but that one had serious documentation problems
03:59 sri which went as far as the proposal of a "without_formats;" lite keyword :)
04:00 crab i am not so strongly opposed to changing format => 0 to ->without_formats, but i still do prefer the former syntax. format => 0 and format => 'html' look the same, and i think that's appropriate.
04:00 sri finding something better than the current solution, that's also consistent between lite and full apps has turned out to be really hard
04:01 crab i agree that "under [format => 0]" reads a little strangely, though
04:02 Grinnz crab, changing the code or the docs? [format => 0] would still work
04:02 crab but i don't like the name without_formats either.
04:03 crab grinnz: i am not sure what you mean
04:03 Grinnz crab, "changing format => 0 to ->without_formats", would only be a doc change, you could still do either in code
04:03 Grinnz i was just wondering if thats what you meant
04:45 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
04:45 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A7lw
04:45 good_news_everyon mojo/master 4782364 Sebastian Riedel: more modern dispatcher tests
04:45 good_news_everyon left #mojo
04:55 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
04:55 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A74O
04:55 good_news_everyon mojo/master 6aa6b01 Sebastian Riedel: current can be confused with the current route
04:55 good_news_everyon left #mojo
04:57 kaare joined #mojo
04:58 irq joined #mojo
05:04 kaare joined #mojo
05:07 asarch joined #mojo
05:13 irq joined #mojo
05:14 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
05:14 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A70y
05:14 good_news_everyon mojo/master 9b758ca Sebastian Riedel: shortcuts for all prefork options
05:14 good_news_everyon left #mojo
05:39 inokenty-w joined #mojo
06:15 marmez joined #mojo
06:47 SCMaster joined #mojo
06:49 dod joined #mojo
06:52 disputin joined #mojo
06:54 dod joined #mojo
06:55 absolut_todd joined #mojo
07:40 fhelmber_ joined #mojo
07:51 inokenty-w joined #mojo
07:57 batman http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Formats <--- i don't get what the difference is from today :/
07:58 Vandal joined #mojo
07:58 batman riche: what's the alternative to act?
07:58 batman anything else i've missed while i've been away?
08:01 irq joined #mojo
08:03 crab hi batman.
08:03 batman hi
08:15 marcus hi crabman
08:15 eseyman joined #mojo
08:27 reneeb joined #mojo
08:28 crab the crustacean you deserve?
08:35 trone joined #mojo
08:44 noganex_ is there a way to run a sub which can ->redirect_to a client everytime an action is called in a controller? right now i'm doing something like $self->redirect_to(...) if($condition) in every sub in my controller.
08:44 noganex_ can this be done automatically in every sub?
08:45 crab use a bridge
08:48 noganex_ mh. yes. thanks, crab :)
08:48 Lee noganex_: use under, bridge is removed in v6
08:49 noganex_ so i won't be able to use $routes->bridge->to('Controller#action') anymore?
08:50 Lee i don't think so
08:51 Lee https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/Changes#L129
08:51 noganex_ well... that's good to know. thanks Lee.
08:54 crab oh yeah. an under.
09:02 noganex_ mh.. and how do i get the current controller with under? $_[0] seems to be a Mojolicious::Controller object and not the controller extending Mojolicious::Controller...
09:03 noganex_ (because the conditions i want to check are in controller...)
09:06 crab what?
09:10 noganex_ nevermind, crab. i think $self->hook(before_render... is just what i need. :)
09:13 marmez left #mojo
09:13 marmez joined #mojo
09:14 ashimema joined #mojo
09:19 arpadszasz joined #mojo
09:31 icjs joined #mojo
09:32 icjs hi, does anyone has insights on tuning hypnotoad for good performance under load? we're using mojo with hypnotoad to power an rest api and discovering that under "heavy" load it is dropping connections
09:32 icjs or is the answer "use nginx" or something else?
09:32 Adura More workers?
09:32 bpmedley icjs: How high of load?
09:33 icjs bpmedley, yeah :/ i dont have those numbers sorry but i can find out. i'm kinda coming into this fresh
09:34 bpmedley http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad#accepts lots of stuff here to tweak, depending on the situation
09:34 bpmedley Does your app block?
09:35 icjs bpmedley, yes
09:36 Adura Then the answer is more workers!
09:36 bpmedley icjs: How many workers do you have, currently?
09:37 icjs we are using hpynotoad on the defaults
09:39 bpmedley icjs: So, you can handle 4 blocking requests at a time?  You can probably scale that up as others have mentioned.
09:42 icjs thanks guys
09:43 icjs are approach is going to be to firstly get a baseline of the "performance" with the defaults, then tweak workers/clients/accepts and re-test
09:48 punter joined #mojo
10:16 dhg joined #mojo
10:16 Lee someone doesn't grok e-mail
10:16 Lee mis-chan
10:24 jontaylor joined #mojo
10:33 arthas joined #mojo
11:34 Nemix joined #mojo
11:43 dotan1 joined #mojo
12:16 dvinciguerra joined #mojo
12:17 dvinci joined #mojo
12:32 inokenty-w joined #mojo
12:58 marmez joined #mojo
12:59 amon joined #mojo
12:59 neilhwatson joined #mojo
13:05 inokenty-w joined #mojo
13:43 inokenty-w joined #mojo
13:45 ignacio_ joined #mojo
13:59 jberger does anyone really grok email?
14:08 marmez left #mojo
14:10 ignacio_ joined #mojo
14:14 marcus Does avoiding it count?
14:27 Grinnz [04:02:02] <noganex_> mh.. and how do i get the current controller with under? $_[0] seems to be a Mojolicious::Controller object and not the controller extending Mojolicious::Controller...
14:27 * ssm has far too much exposure to email administration to be able to avoid it.
14:27 Grinnz an under receives the same controller as any other actin
14:27 Grinnz action *
14:27 sri so, any ideas for better names than $dom->child_nodes and $dom->descendant_nodes yet?
14:28 sri (the non node variants for both are called $dom->children and $dom->find)
14:29 ssm $dom->nodes->{children,descendants} is too much?
14:29 sri batman, marcus: still want your opinion on formats
14:29 batman sri: yeah, i was asking about what the change is
14:29 batman http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Formats <--- i don't get what the difference is from today :/
14:30 sri http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2015-02-25#i_10175099
14:30 sri that's how i explained it to crab
14:30 sri keep reading the conversation
14:30 sri difference is irrelevant
14:31 batman then i can't vote, since i didn't get it from reading the log :(
14:31 batman which question did you refer to when you wrote "the formats question" ?
14:31 sri batman: do you like how formats work now?
14:31 sri or do you think they should be simpler or even removed?
14:32 sri right now formats are the second biggest section in the tutorial after under/group
14:32 zivester joined #mojo
14:32 sri are they worth that much space?
14:32 batman i guess i like it how it is now... but i might be missing out on something. i simply use it to dispatch to .json or .html templates and/or by using render_to()
14:33 batman do you want my opinion on the documentation or how formats work?
14:33 sri you might also have missed this faq answer jberger and Grinnz worked out yesterday http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/FAQ#Where-did-my-file-extension-go
14:33 sri batman: both
14:34 batman http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/FAQ#Where-did-my-file-extension-go <--- that is useful. but i've never bother to think about ".extension" in the path part.
14:35 batman most of my urls don't have .extension and if they do, it's because i want to do respond_to() or automatic dispatch to a different template
14:35 batman i think it's super nice. much easier than messing around with headers imo
14:35 sri respond_to can also handle ?format=html
14:36 batman right. i much rather have .html.
14:36 sri i see
14:36 batman i don't get why people can't just use /*foo if they really want the extension.
14:37 batman but then again, i normally don't use .extensions except for APIs
14:39 batman i would like if "format" in stash was kept and respond_to() works like today
14:49 batman sri: so might it change? is this a 6.0 change or earlier?
14:49 batman (if so)
14:54 gryphon joined #mojo
15:05 sri batman: there is no earlier ;p https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/Changes#L2
15:05 batman haha! oh. so i guess _something_ happened while i was away
15:06 sri we will have 6.0 in the next few days
15:06 batman what was the issue with "name listing support from param method"
15:07 sri so, if you've got anything you want to change, now is the time
15:07 batman i better start testing then...
15:07 sri you better start reading the backlog
15:07 batman ok
15:07 sri all the bigger changes have been up for discussion
15:07 bwf joined #mojo
15:08 sri i suspect this one will be the most breaking change https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/Changes#L30-L33
15:09 batman 6.0 doesn't have any deprecation warnings since it's a major release?
15:10 * sri nods
15:10 batman i need to start bundeling my apps with mojolicious :/
15:11 nicomen hm not too many breaking changes
15:12 Grinnz that sounds like a challenge
15:12 sri challenge accepted
15:12 nicomen but there might be a market for Mojolicious::LTS :-)
15:13 nicomen LTS = long term support
15:15 batman Deprecated object-oriented Mojo::Loader API # sweet! it will break my code, but it makes so much sense :)
15:16 sri it does indeed
15:17 * batman got work to do
15:17 batman (upgrading all my modules)
15:17 Lee w00t, my plugins' tests pass with v6
15:17 Lee but i see a ->render_not_found so need to up coverage :D
15:19 asarch joined #mojo
15:21 batman riche: let me know when you get online. i'm curious if you and tempire got anywhere with mojoconf.org
15:24 batman sri: after reading the log, i like the removal of @params = $c->param;
15:24 batman makes sense
15:24 batman i mean @names = $c->param
15:25 batman and i also like $names = $params->names since it's consistent. --- i think it's annoying, but it's consistent, hehe
15:26 batman sri: why do you sort the keys? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Parameters.pm#L64
15:31 jontaylor joined #mojo
15:33 sri batman: sort made testing easier
15:34 nicomen sorting++
15:34 cpan_mojo Mojo-mysql 0.06 by HARRYL - http://metacpan.org/release/HARRYL/Mojo-mysql-0.06
15:35 nicomen althought not necessarily what you want when parsing URLs
15:36 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
15:36 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AFlL
15:36 good_news_everyon mojo/master 4e934d0 Sebastian Riedel: return array references consistently
15:36 good_news_everyon left #mojo
15:36 sri nicomen: what do you mean?
15:40 batman sri: ok
15:41 nicomen sri: many times, the order of params is important, for instance when caching, or using multiple params and the order given is wanted
15:41 nicomen multiple params = multi-params
15:42 sri we don't return the same name twice either
15:42 sri so, there will never be a direct mapping to the actual names
15:42 nicomen for ->params in a controller perspective, I think it's ok. But I would like to know original order when talking to Mojo::URL directly
15:42 sri order is preserved in ->pairs
15:42 nicomen ok, np then ;)
15:43 sri how does preserving order for ->names make sense if it doesn't repeat names too?
15:44 nicomen I didn't talk about ->names, just that enforcing order might be problematic in some cases and that having a way to reach the original is nice
15:44 sri of course Mojo::Parameters preserves order internally
15:44 nicomen I hear ya!
15:44 sri always did
15:47 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
15:47 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AFE8
15:47 good_news_everyon mojo/master 1d6f383 Sebastian Riedel: a few more cookie jar examples
15:47 good_news_everyon left #mojo
15:59 sh4 joined #mojo
16:02 riche` joined #mojo
16:03 * sri wonders if there's a better name for this method http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/UserAgent/CookieJar#inject
16:06 kwa joined #mojo
16:07 riche` interjaculate - j/k
16:10 batman riche`: did you see my message?
16:11 riche` batman: no ... \
16:11 batman riche`: let me know when you get online. i'm curious if you and tempire got anywhere with mojoconf.org <--- this
16:12 riche` ah i c ... from what I understand the splash didn't get done because there was some problem with changing the domain name pointers
16:12 batman so the splash is done, but not online..?
16:13 riche` apparently tempire put together something but noone has seen it
16:13 batman that doesn't make any sense. it can still be online *somewhere* so we can see it and make changes
16:13 batman tempire: where do you plan to put this splash?
16:13 batman and is it done? can we see a screenshot?
16:13 batman riche`: so act is not going to happen, right..? what is plan b?
16:14 riche` plan b is jberger's MCT
16:14 batman what's that?
16:14 purl it has been said that that is a much more rare case
16:15 riche` his rebuke to salve's notion that ACT shouldnt be complained about and is too tricky to implement
16:16 riche` err, re-implement
16:16 batman right. is it on github? does it have any contributors?
16:16 riche` give me a sec
16:17 riche` https://github.com/jberger/MCT
16:18 batman what does MCT stand for?
16:18 riche` mojo conference toolkit
16:18 sri how odd, that app was generated with an old version of mojolicious
16:18 batman ok, hehe
16:19 riche` it would be cool if purl said "old school, new school, even in between school" when someone said "old version"
16:20 riche` sorry couldn't help the bran van 3000 ref
16:20 asarch joined #mojo
16:21 riche` batman: I am afk for a good part of the day today ... work ... so pls email if you need me to see the msg ok?
16:22 batman jberger: can i run with your project?
16:22 batman riche`: ok. thanks for replying
16:30 Mikey so who all's going to mojoconf 2015?
16:30 jberger batman: go right ahead
16:30 batman jberger: can i get commit bit?
16:31 jberger sri: was that comment about generated app aimed at me (MCT)?
16:31 Ptolemarch joined #mojo
16:33 muraiki joined #mojo
16:33 sri jberger: ye
16:33 sri or not really
16:33 sri more a general comment ;p
16:33 jberger I never generate the apps actually :)
16:33 sri :O
16:33 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
16:33 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AFbP
16:33 good_news_everyon mojo/master b998555 Sebastian Riedel: use the term prepare instead of inject
16:33 good_news_everyon left #mojo
16:33 dod sri: regarding CookieJar method names, I'd suggest inject_into (and extract_from to be consistent)...
16:34 dod ah, too late
16:34 sri it's only too late after 6.0 is released ;)
16:34 dod right :-)
16:36 sri i'd like a ->steal method
16:37 sri or ->nomnomnom instead of ->extract
16:37 jberger nomnomnom \o/
16:37 nicomen lol
16:38 genio ->nomnomnom +1  \o/
16:42 asarch Hallo, wie gehts?
16:42 asarch How could I add font styles to my blog entries?
16:42 asarch So far, I just can store plain text
16:43 jberger asarch: blog entries? plain text? non of these are mojo level concerns
16:44 jberger are you using a mojo-based app?
16:44 asarch Yes, it is
16:44 jberger which one?
16:44 asarch Well, I am crafting my own
16:45 jberger hahaha, then its up to you!
16:47 asarch D'oh!
16:47 asarch :-(
16:47 batman jberger: how do you feel about making MCT::Model::User a proper object, instead of just "something" that fetch data from the database?
16:47 asarch I mean, I am using Mojo to write my own blog app
16:52 jberger batman: I started that way, having accessors and attributes etc
16:52 jberger more like mandel was
16:52 jberger this ... just was easier, because I didn't have to worry about staleness etc
16:52 batman what do you mean about staleness?
16:53 jberger read the data, change it, now it is not up to date with the db
16:53 jberger with simple helpers it is obvious that you have to write to make changes
16:53 batman i don't see how that's an issue. it's a lot easier to work with objects imo :/
16:54 batman like $user->username(undef)->is_valid or whatever
16:54 batman it's also annoying to know if it's an insert or update.
16:55 jberger my helpers are really just built with an eye towards a REST api
16:55 jberger create -> POST
16:55 jberger update -> PATCH
16:55 jberger and get obviously
16:56 batman can i push a branch to give you an idea of what i would like?
17:00 jberger sure
17:01 batman do i have commit bit?
17:03 jberger haven't gotten to that yet, but you know, this is github, you don't really need one :-)
17:04 jberger I was out this morning getting a medical test done, so I'm catching up on $work first
17:06 batman ok
17:08 dod joined #mojo
17:19 sri i wish we had a canonical blog examples app, demonstrating best practices
17:19 sri something anyone could use to start MCT with for example
17:20 jberger I don't point to Galileo for generic purposes anymore
17:21 jberger I only use it for specific examples of things
17:21 jberger I really hope to either revamp it or come up with a replacement at some point
17:21 jberger some of my early decisions were wrong
17:21 sri something pretty enough to be self-hosting its own website as an example
17:22 jberger Galileo does already do that actually
17:22 sri galileo has a website?
17:22 jberger galileo-cms.herokuapp.com
17:27 alnewkirk joined #mojo
17:27 sri that's actually not terrible, but a little borig
17:27 sri *+n
17:27 jberger very boring
17:27 jberger I'm not a front end dev, as you can tell
17:28 jberger originally I was going to try to push for theming, so boring is good for a base
17:28 jberger and then I never really got there
17:28 punter joined #mojo
17:28 Ptolemarch joined #mojo
17:28 jberger I am very proud of the json-over-websocket stuff that I pushed for for Galileo
17:29 jberger and yet I don't use it to the fullest
17:29 sri i was thinking more along the lines of http://locomotivecms.com/
17:29 sri :)
17:29 jberger I had visions of collbaorative editing
17:30 sri oh, ghost site changed again too https://ghost.org/
17:31 marty spooky
17:31 sri although... it's almost impossible to even find the link to the github repo anymore
17:31 arthas joined #mojo
17:33 sri i see so many folks around here start web apps, but never take them all the way
17:35 * marty is guilty of that
17:43 tempire jberger: use a template site
17:43 jberger sri: always throw the first one away
17:48 * Grinnz_ is working on a web app to replace http://www.pretendyoure.xyz/zy/
17:48 Grinnz_ current site: java and long polling, new site: mojo and websockets :)
17:49 Grinnz_ also, redis instead of postgres, but thats just for ease of installation and because the database doesnt need to do a whole lot
17:49 batman tempire: what's the status of the splash page?
17:50 Grinnz_ postgres could just as easily do the pub/sub stuff obviously
17:50 Grinnz_ wlel, an up to date postgres anyway :)
17:55 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
17:55 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AbK0
17:55 good_news_everyon mojo/master bf2e175 Sebastian Riedel: yes, that is a nomnomnom method
17:55 good_news_everyon left #mojo
17:56 sri you thought i was joking, but i'm german, we don't do that
17:56 batman nomnomnom <--- will get spelled wrong every time (i bet)
17:56 marty lol
17:56 sri users don't actually use it
17:58 icjs we've been doing load testing/performance tweaking of hynotoad today - is anyone running it in production under "heavy" load?
17:58 jberger hahahahaha
17:58 purl LOLCON 5 reached.
17:59 jberger anyway, sri, here's a thing
17:59 sri icjs: yes, i've heard quite afew success stories
17:59 jberger MOJO_TEMPLATE_DEBUG=1 perl -Mojo -E 'a("/" => { inline => q!<%= +(localtime)[5]+1900 %>!})->start' get /
17:59 jberger without the + things go haywire
17:59 jberger got this from: http://blog.wlindley.com/2015/02/zero-to-mojolicious-part-2-content-wrapping-filter-templates/
18:00 jberger the problem is each line is executed in scalar context with the keyword scalar
18:00 jberger which if the next symbol is a ( is assumed to be part of the function call
18:01 jberger ::sigh::
18:01 sri jberger: not like we can do anything about that
18:01 jberger is it possible for the template to do scalar+
18:01 jberger that is usually the fix, but does that break other things?
18:02 mst or maybe 'scalar(${line})'
18:02 icjs sri, ok thanks. it's strnage because i'm seeing good requests/sec performance hitting it using apachebenachmark ("ab") but our QA engineers are hitting it via a tool call WAPT and not seeing good performance.
18:02 sri jberger: have you tried it?
18:02 purl You know, the workings of perl lend themselves to empirical research.
18:02 mst purl++
18:03 icjs we've a few more avenues of investigation anyhow
18:03 jberger sri: not yet, will do at lunch
18:03 * sri hugs purl
18:03 * purl hugs sri back
18:04 sri jberger: note that we also have _escape scalar
18:04 jberger the ( after scalar is all we have to worry about
18:04 sri mst: no, that is not an option
18:04 maze joined #mojo
18:05 batman jberger: https://github.com/jhthorsen/MCT/commit/c0a7f7f0c6b135f59434fafe0eb9d4cabc777bb3
18:05 mst sri: there are things that work with 'scalar ' on the front but not with '()' wrapped?
18:05 marty icjs: if your app has large bursts of requests you may want to tweek the backlog and/or system SOMAXCONN.    http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad#backlog
18:06 sri for the record, scalar+ does not break anything, but causes lots and lots of warnings like "Warning: Use of "scalar" without parentheses is ambiguous at template line 3."
18:06 mst oh, hrm, I guess 'foo(); bar();' would at least *sort of* work without the ()
18:06 mst except the 'scalar' would get applied to foo() instead of bar()
18:07 sri mst: also <%= foo sub { %>...<% }; %>
18:08 sri that's the foundation of our block helpers
18:08 icjs marty, thank you, do you happen to know the value of SOMAXCONN?
18:09 sri icjs: i don't know the tool they are using, although ab is rather shitty for real load testing, industry standard these days is wrk
18:10 icjs marty, no worries - i can see it's a somaxconn is a kernel param - i'll rtfm
18:10 sri icjs: if you're using a lot of non-blocking stuff there is also event loop tuning for super high concurrency http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/IOLoop#DESCRIPTION
18:11 icjs sri, it's blocking - basically we have used mojolicious as the core of a REST API talking to solr searchengine
18:11 sri icjs: and make sure to use a very recent version, hypnotoad has seen a lot of tuning recently
18:11 icjs we tweaked hypnotoad settings to find a sweet spot for a 4 core server (workers = 8, clients = 1)
18:12 sri allright, there was a bug pre 5.81 or so that prevented clients = 1 from working correctly
18:12 sri 8 workers is not enough though
18:12 icjs anymore than 8 and we saw performance degrade, this was testing with "ab" though
18:12 sri icjs: with hat concurrency are they hitting the server?
18:13 icjs although ab may be crap, by using the same test each time we thought we could get a comparative test
18:13 sri ab is shit because the concurrency setting is a lie
18:13 sri it uses much less than you configure
18:13 icjs eg. it followed a bell curve with 8 giving us the highest requests-per-second according to "ab"
18:14 sri you might say -c 100, but it uses 4 connections... and the like
18:14 icjs ok, i'm looking at the github page for "wrk" - i will probably give this a spin tomorrow
18:15 sri with wrk you can actually overwhelm servers, and find the exact weak spots
18:16 sri but seriously, mojolicious 5.81+
18:17 icjs sri, our cpansnapshot file says... Mojolicious-5.68
18:18 marty icjs:  I ran into a similar issue many years ago where increasing workings degraded performance.  It was on a sun solaris E10.  Turns it the OS was dropping packets.  That's why I suggested looking into listen backlog buffer.
18:18 sri yea, that's a bad version
18:18 marty s/workings/workers/
18:18 sri clients = 1 does not work before 5.81
18:19 icjs marty, our ab test was 20 concurrent reqs so unlikely to have hit that limit right?
18:19 icjs sri, ah - thanks!
18:19 sri (actually 5.80... but if you're upgrading anyway)
18:19 icjs marty, but this is good to know - i'll mention that to our ops staff and the team tomorrow
18:23 icjs off now, thanks guys - "i'll be back"
18:39 riche` left #mojo
18:40 riche joined #mojo
18:42 sri jberger: this one would fix it https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7d67841d72c6c8adecdc
18:43 sri yea, we have to turn off ambiguous warnings :(
18:45 sri i think the warning is actually a bug in this case
18:45 sri at least i've seen p5p posts suggesting that
18:46 sri not that it helps us
18:51 Ptolemarch joined #mojo
18:52 sri jberger, tempire, marcus, batman, crab: so, should we fix it or is the fix too ugly?
18:52 berov joined #mojo
18:54 batman what's so ugly about it?
18:56 tempire You're referring to the gist?
18:56 sri yes
18:57 sri with ugly i mean we have to disable a warnings category for all templates
18:57 batman tempire: do you have me on ignore, or do you simple don't get notified when i mention you?
18:57 sri the jsonconfig plugin change illustrates it
18:57 batman sri: but isn't it a rather obscure warning? i mean, it's not like no warnings 'undefined'
18:59 sri you tell me
18:59 batman i might be wrong. i'm not too familiar with the different warnings :(
19:00 tempire batman: I was planning on working on it today.
19:00 tempire you're not on ignore
19:00 tempire Just wanted to get it done before I answered
19:00 batman tempire: ok. cool! :)
19:00 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
19:00 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ANOz
19:00 good_news_everyon mojo/master da15213 Sebastian Riedel: fix Mojo::Template support for parentheses in expressions
19:00 good_news_everyon left #mojo
19:00 sri well, committing it for now so you can try it
19:01 sri but it's not quite decided yet
19:01 preaction couldn't they add the unary + themselves if they get that warning?
19:02 sri you can try it yourself
19:02 sri MOJO_TEMPLATE_DEBUG=1 perl -Mojo -E 'a("/" => { inline => q!<%= (localtime)[5]+1900 %>!})->start' get /
19:02 sri it's a pretty bad error
19:04 sri https://gist.github.com/anonymous/e808b8f985f7c5f9cf7c
19:10 preaction yeah, that construct (LIST)[0] is all sorts of syntax ambiguity (here because i suspect perl thinks it is scalar() as a function), but doing +(localtime)[5]+1900 fixes the syntax error.
19:11 preaction but yeah. terrible error message that requires you to know a bit of perl's black magic...
19:12 preaction i've taken to doing [LIST]->[0] instead. less potential for ambiguity...
19:16 hernan604 how does $client works ?
19:17 hernan604 it is global? i have this MyWebsocket.pm class which implements: /ws/:name.
19:18 hernan604 and it seems there is a race condition when ws->send to :name1 and :name2
19:18 jberger sri: do we have any idea what else is covered by the ambiguous warning?
19:23 preaction jberger: perldoc perldiag and grep for "ambiguous", there's a bunch of things that could help people who aren't experts at how perl parses Perl
19:23 jberger :(
19:24 punter joined #mojo
19:25 preaction this is the kind of thing where non-perlers would deride perl for being stupid for even allowing syntactical ambiguity like this :p
19:25 jberger too bad we can't do 'scalar do {' but that has the same problem as ()
19:26 preaction in theory, you only need the unary plus if the first non-space character is '('
19:27 punter can morbo be used to restart any old perl program, whenever a watched file gets changed?
19:27 punter modified?
19:27 purl modified is way easier
19:28 asarch Have you seen it?: http://ckeditor.com/
19:30 preaction ... also in theory, the ambiguity might be removed by forcing parens around scalar( )...
19:30 jberger preaction: that has already been discussed
19:30 preaction oh, sorry
19:30 jberger s'ok
19:31 jberger preaction: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2015-02-25#i_10179082
19:36 Grinnz_ jberger: what was the problem you found with SSL connections and fork_call? i'm tryng to enable SSL for my mojo app and i think i'm running into it
19:37 jberger you need to use whichever version of mojo which removes the behavior of closing file handles when the stream object goes out of scope
19:38 jberger I'd recommend 5.79+
19:38 disputin joined #mojo
19:39 Grinnz_ alright ill try updating mojo
19:39 Grinnz_ i think its on 5.77
19:39 jberger I think you missed it by one version
19:39 jberger 5.78 has the fix, but it also had a bug, so go for 5.79
19:43 sri 5.80 was a big release
19:44 sri jberger: so, you're not sure if we should keep "scalar +"
19:44 jberger I'm torn, you fix one bad error, but in the process remove potentially useful warnings
19:45 jberger I also now see that putting two statements in like <%= doit; generate_content %> might not do what you mean
19:46 sri that one is waaaay out there
19:46 sri why would you expect that?
19:47 sri it's not a block but an expression
19:48 sri the thing about <%= (1,2,3)[1] %> is that it is in fact an expression
19:48 jberger correct
19:48 Eitz joined #mojo
19:48 jberger I'm just wondering if people do that (treat it like a block and don't get escaped in the process)
19:48 sri who cares?
19:48 purl not me
19:49 sri we don't promise it's a block
19:50 jberger true
19:53 preaction sorry, why would do{} not work? i thought someone mentioned it wouldn't
19:54 sri same reason scalar() doesn't
20:03 jberger preaction: we don't know where the end-of-command/line is
20:04 preaction ah. and to know that, you'd have to parse Perl
20:04 berov joined #mojo
20:05 jberger exactly
20:11 havingprobs joined #mojo
20:11 havingprobs Hey all, is this where I'd get support for Mojo::Pg?
20:12 havingprobs i am getting syntax errors on a statement: $db->query('insert into user (username, email, password, title, activation_token) values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?)', $username, $email, $pass, $title, $token);
20:12 havingprobs Am I doing it wrong?
20:13 reneeb joined #mojo
20:14 sri what's the error?
20:14 purl the error is KABOOM!
20:14 preaction one of those words might be a reserved word, like "user" or "password" so you may have to quote it as an identifier (i believe that's double-quotes in postgres). but yes, what's the error
20:14 havingprobs DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR:  syntax error at or near "user"
20:15 havingprobs Yep, user is a reserved word
20:16 Grinnz_ yeah, always quote your identifiers
20:16 sri Mojo::Pg doesn't deal with that stuff itself, those errors come all from DBD::Pg and PostgreSQL itself
20:16 havingprobs Yep, user is a reserved word, quoting fixed the issue. I will need to change the table to people or something. I forgot.
20:16 havingprobs thanks all
20:17 preaction DBI has a method, quote_identifier, for this issue.
20:17 Grinnz_ that sounds like a bad idea...
20:17 Grinnz_ just quote your identifiers :s
20:17 preaction i wouldn't rename the table to something suboptimal. though "users" is usually not a reserved word
20:18 Grinnz_ ive gotten into the habit of even quoting identifiers in a quick select in the CLI
20:20 havingprobs OK, so quote > rename then?
20:21 Grinnz_ IMO yes
20:21 Grinnz_ it avoids the issue entirely
20:21 preaction i think so. i prefer predictable table names that describe what's in there
20:21 havingprobs Basically, you all just quote all identifiers as habit? That's a good habit to get into actually. Thanks for the tip!
20:21 havingprobs I agree, I prefer user over people.
20:22 * sri uses plural table names, i'm odd like that though
20:22 Grinnz_ i cant decide whether i like plural or singular sometimes
20:22 sri "insert into user..." vs "insert into users..."
20:22 Grinnz_ singular looks better in joins, but you usually use aliases anyway
20:23 preaction i also tend to plural table names, for that reason
20:23 preaction plural arrays. singular hashes.
20:23 Grinnz_ yeah but tables are more like hashes :P
20:24 Grinnz_ SELECT users.username FROM...
20:24 preaction arrays of hashes
20:24 Grinnz_ but as i said, aliases makes that kind of irrelevant
20:24 sri holy war \o/
20:24 preaction and quoting
20:25 preaction vim!
20:25 sri waffles!
20:25 purl waffles is great
20:25 * Grinnz_ thinks vim and emacs both suck
20:25 preaction pancakes!
20:25 purl Let us think of pancakes.  Moist, delicious pancakes, dripping with syrup and hot butter.
20:26 sri actually... i like pancakes more :S
20:26 preaction BLASPHEMY!
20:26 preaction pannenköken!
20:26 * preaction waffles on the issue
20:26 Grinnz_ i prefer omelets
20:26 preaction as long as nobody brings up crêpes
20:26 Grinnz_ blintzes!
20:27 sri so... we keeping ->nomnomnom?
20:28 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/UserAgent/CookieJar.pm#L75
20:29 batman sri: not sure... how about just nomnom? :)
20:30 batman i'm betting you will remove it in 7.0 ;)
20:32 marcus how about nom
20:32 purl it has been said that nom is in a timezone inhabited by very few or Norm
20:32 marcus :p
20:34 marmez joined #mojo
20:34 havingprobs both plural and singular have their downsides
20:35 preaction having trouble installing 5.82. it appears to hang in the tests: https://gist.github.com/preaction/2923af2d6cae3e0fd1d5
20:37 Grinnz_ https://metacpan.org/source/SRI/Mojolicious-5.82/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm#L235
20:38 Grinnz_ somehow, $stream appears to be a socket object instead of Mojo::IOLoop::Stream
20:39 Grinnz_ something is calling Mojo::IOLoop->stream with a socket object?
20:39 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
20:39 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AAvC
20:39 good_news_everyon mojo/master fdffd33 Sebastian Riedel: the world is not ready for a nomnomnom method yet
20:39 good_news_everyon left #mojo
20:40 Grinnz_ heh
20:42 Ptolemarch joined #mojo
20:42 Grinnz_ preaction: it looks like that happens when it hits websocket.t
20:47 sri there is this test https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/t/mojo/websocket.t#L169
20:47 sri but it exist like forever
20:48 sri *+s
20:48 Grinnz_ preaction: repeatable failure?
20:50 preaction yep
20:50 preaction let me try to reproduce on a bunch more machines
20:51 havingprobs before i head out, one more question: is there an error method or something similar? $result = $db->query('select ...'); and if the select statement returns no rows, I can check with $result->error?
20:52 havingprobs I could use isa to see if hash is a method of $result, that'd be one way to do it, but just want to make sure there's not already a way to check.
20:53 sri no rows is not an error
20:53 preaction okay, this only happens on my dev vm. on our dev servers it works fine. i'll try to track it down a bit
20:53 havingprobs ok, it returns a mojo::pg::result object
20:54 havingprobs I guess it's just not linked in the documentation
20:54 havingprobs understandable since mojo::pg is new
20:54 sri havingprobs: wat? http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Pg/Database#query
20:54 jberger havingprobs: it isn't documented that ->query returns a result object?
20:56 havingprobs my bad, I need to read the docs on metacpan
20:56 havingprobs don't like the layout of that one
20:56 havingprobs thank you for correcting me
20:57 sri perhaps you could share with us what you don't like about the layout?
20:57 sri GRRRRR
20:58 sri it's moments like this where i just want to quit open source
20:58 nicomen pah
20:58 nicomen say $_ for 1..10;
20:59 ihaveprobs joined #mojo
20:59 ihaveprobs anyway, meant to say it's not linked from here http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Pg
20:59 ihaveprobs forgot to do the usual hopping around to find the right document that is mojolicious documentation
21:01 nicomen ihaveprobs: in the doc you linked to
21:01 nicomen ihaveprobs: I think you skipped the fact that the examples operate on a db object, and hence should look in that page instead?
21:01 nicomen my $db = $pg->db;
21:02 nicomen http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Pg/Database#query
21:02 nicomen clearly states and links to Mojo::Pg::Results
21:03 nicomen I think actually the links to other classes are done in abundant, which is great, many docs do not do that as extensive
21:04 nicomen *abundance
21:13 ihaveprobs ah, i've just been spoiled with dbix::class and moose documentation
21:14 ihaveprobs it is easy to find what you're looking for, mojo::pg doc has examples of query, etc, but links to nothing further
21:14 ihaveprobs like even mojo::pg::databae
21:15 ihaveprobs time for bed, thanks for help
21:15 Grinnz_ https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Pg#db i agree its a little hidden, but i'm not sure how to fix it
21:15 Grinnz_ link in description perhaps?
21:15 ihaveprobs im too tired, missing everything
21:15 ihaveprobs lol
21:15 ihaveprobs g'night
21:20 kaare joined #mojo
21:25 Anon021 joined #mojo
21:32 jberger ihaveprobs: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Pg#db
21:33 jberger sri: the biggest problem we keep having with making the documentation understandable seems to be that people don't read it
21:33 jberger they skim it
21:33 jberger and there isn't much we can do beyond that
21:35 marty Personally, I think the Mojolicious documentation is some of the best in open source, and better than a lot of closed source.
21:36 csson joined #mojo
21:36 preaction every problem i've ever had with mojolicious has been because i didn't read the docs
21:37 preaction but that isn't mojolicious's fault
21:37 marty The only time the docs did not answer my question is when I did not read close enough, as jberger pointed out.
21:37 marty agreed
21:37 marty Mojolicous docs could be help up as an example of how to do documentation right.
21:37 jberger I got an email once, someone asking for tips for use mojo
21:38 cfedde Mojocast!
21:38 preaction i've been using them as an example for organizing Statocles's docs honestly
21:38 jberger I said, "read the docs, don't just skim, every word is important. once you read it, read it again."
21:39 jberger "after twice through, the second time for absorption of all that content, if there is something you don't understand, come ask, because its probably a flaw in the docs"
21:40 jberger the response was the textual equivalent of :o followed by "I guess I better go back and read then, I probably skimmed :-)"
21:40 marty Honestly, I've never seen a developer obsess over documentation structure and wording as much as sri.  I guess that's his ocd kicking in.
21:40 tempire Indeed.
21:40 tempire The Mojolicious documentation is excellent.
21:40 tempire sri++++++++++
21:41 marty I've still go to the docs to learn new things.   And if I don't get the answer there, I peruse the module docs.
21:42 jberger sri doesn't have ocd, robots don't have ocd ... they are robots
21:43 marty sri a robot?  I am begining to think it's more like Spoks' brain in a jar.  :O
21:44 jberger http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mqljHjkohDI/UUD7CZfnE3I/AAAAAAAALck/oMNMJDA4wFE/s320/RoboJoke3.png
21:44 * tempire is using the format detection today, and is truly appreciating it
21:45 jberger that slide is much funnier than the actual comic it comes from
21:54 * marcus found the absolute worst bug in keepalived.conf today
21:56 n2plato joined #mojo
22:01 jzawodn bah
22:01 jzawodn why is Mojoconf separated from YAPC::NA by 2 days and 2/3rds of the country?  </sadface>
22:03 tempire jzawodn: this year's organizer wanted to capture international travelers to yapc
22:03 irq joined #mojo
22:04 pink_mist that sounds like a bad reason to have it 2/3rds of the country away :P
22:04 tempire that's where the organizer is located
22:05 tempire Europeans would be coming from that direction anyway, I think that's what the motivation was
22:05 tempire Or at least the justification
22:06 riche quite frankly if I was in EU/UK and my company was paying for going to the conference, I wouldn't pay for 2 different trips to the US
22:08 jzawodn tempire: ah, interesting.  ok.
22:08 riche Also, it gives people Sunday to travel to SLC, or spend Su sightseeing before going to SLC
22:10 riche I think overseas folks will appreciate it the most.  There are already paid signups from Australia.
22:11 good_news_everyon joined #mojo
22:11 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AAMS
22:11 good_news_everyon mojo/master 46e21e7 Sebastian Riedel: more links
22:11 good_news_everyon left #mojo
22:14 sri i think tomorrow might be a good day for 6.0, so please review all the changes in master
22:16 sri suppose formats discussion is over, might be worth thinking about the names of $dom->descendant_nodes and $dom->child_nodes though
22:16 jberger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MK5FXej69Q
22:23 marcus Someone should probaby tweet something to that effect? 'Going to YAPC::NA this year? Catch MojoConf the weekend before in NYC on the way. :)'
22:24 sri i'm just waiting for people to tell me what to tweet
22:24 riche Yes kayi is formulating that in the marketing plan
22:25 sri biggest problem is that there's nothing to link to yet
22:25 riche that is right!!!!!
22:25 riche I was asked 3 times today why we just can't use wordpress :p
22:26 jzawodn also mojoconf should be mentioned (more?) on the google group
22:26 marcus moveabletype :)
22:27 sri jzawodn: i've done that last year when i made the announcement blog post http://blog.kraih.com/post/76535091594/mojoconf-2014
22:29 sri lack of landing page makes all marketing impossible
22:29 riche sri: you are absolutely right.
22:30 riche this is why I said on sunday we need to at least get a splash up
22:30 jzawodn sri: excellent point
22:31 sri even a redirect to the eventbrite page would work to get started
22:31 sri https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mojoconf-2015-nyc-tickets-15825231694
22:32 sri that's not the worst landing page in the world to get the word out
22:33 marcus I thought ssm and tempire was going to sort it out on monday afternoon
22:33 tempire monday turned into wednesday
22:33 marcus that happens
22:34 * sri should be writing a 6.0 blog post too :S
22:34 riche tempire: are we set on getting it done today?
22:34 * marcus just spent two days debugging because keepalived.conf silently ignores statement { statement } -> needs to be statement {n  statement n}
22:34 tempire yes
22:34 riche does ka yi know this?
22:34 marcus is dns sorted? Because I suspect ssd might be sleeping now.
22:35 marcus ssm even
22:35 tempire marcus: I've spoken with him, he's ready to transfer
22:35 marcus ok
22:35 marcus it's 23:35 here atm
22:41 tempire riche: I haven't specifically emailed her
22:43 riche okay. she would appreciate a note from you about it.  things have been ... highly organic
22:48 riche i hope the first meeting she sent email about clears up the RACI as well.  I'm not convinced it's fair to expect people to execute on things ad hoc.
22:48 tempire raci?
22:49 marcus Rascians, a name used to designate Serbs in Middle Ages and the early modern times
22:49 marcus :D
22:49 riche lol
22:49 riche raci is a project management tool
22:49 marcus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matrix
22:49 riche identifies responsible-accountable-consulted-informed
22:49 riche well, more like a pm method
22:50 riche i was laughing at marcus btw, not your question tempire
22:57 * marcus has starting looking into writing scripts for generating keynote presentations from markdown using perl and applescript
22:57 riche marcus: keynote isnt odf compliant? sad :(
22:58 marcus riche: odf?
22:58 purl rumour has it odf is open document format
22:59 riche thanks, purl
22:59 marcus riche: do you know of any tools that generate odf from markdown?
22:59 marcus nicely formatted :)
23:00 riche nope... but what I'm saying is if keynote supports odf, there are odf perl modules, and you could potentially cover it all off in perl
23:00 riche no tools that i know of
23:01 marcus riche: I suspect I can make nicer slides my way, tbh.
23:01 riche marcus: awesome :)
23:02 marcus I can get syntax highlighted RTF pasted directly into slides like this: cat foo | highlight -O rtf --line-numbers --font-size 24 --font Inconsolata --style solarized-dark -W -J 50 -j 3 |pbcopy
23:04 marcus https://www.evernote.com/shard/s22/sh/6be31315-662c-4587-9af7-e58e4f700f21/2f408ae8fb518123764f2a5c49834aad
23:08 jberger I'm using reveal.js lately
23:08 jberger http://jberger.github.io/MojoliciousIntroduction/#/
23:09 al joined #mojo
23:10 bpmedley jberger: One reason for CGI deployment is to use a shared hosting service that only supports CGI.
23:10 jberger bpmedley: I know I know
23:10 jberger its more for the laugh
23:10 bpmedley I see.  I’ll be serious, so it can be funny.
23:10 jberger I say it like, "but wahhhhhyyyyyy"
23:14 ispyhumanfly joined #mojo
23:31 punter joined #mojo
23:33 punter Why does $app->plugin('CCore::Plugin::Auth') not try to load CCore::Plugin::Auth, but Mojolicious/Plugin/CCore/Plugin/Auth.pm?
23:33 Grinnz_ sri: did something change between 5.77 and 5.82 such that morbo now says "Server available at ..." before running the app startup?
23:33 punter What am I doing wrong?
23:33 Grinnz_ not a big deal but i noticed that doesn't show up in my logs anymore
23:34 bpmedley This may be an odd question: is prefork or hypnotoad better for a site where most routes block?
23:34 Grinnz_ well the Listening at ... would be what shows up in the log
23:35 bpmedley punter: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Plugins#namespaces <— I”m guessing
23:36 punter thanks, bpmedley
23:36 jberger punter: hmmmm, I thought a fully qualified plugin name was supposed to work
23:37 jberger punter: are you use that the module is available in lib?
23:37 punter jberger, it used to work half an hour ago
23:37 Grinnz_ bpmedley: generally you would use hypnotoad rather than prefork directly when deploying
23:37 jberger check your @INC
23:37 punter ok i will thanks
23:37 Grinnz_ bpmedley: for blocking applications you're going to need more workers and less clients
23:37 bpmedley Grinnz_: Why?  Other than the hot reload, what’s the difference?
23:38 Grinnz_ bpmedley: it's configurable through the app, it runs from the provided binary
23:39 Grinnz_ it runs production mode by default
23:39 bpmedley I see.  The app configuration is definitely a plus.
23:39 Grinnz_ and the hot deployment doesnt hurt ;)
23:39 punter jberger, checked @INC, the module is available in lib
23:41 * Grinnz_ wishes he could get away from blocking applications for good...
23:47 bpmedley punter: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Loader.pm#L43  <— If I’m reading this correclty, the passed in $name is tried after the mapped namespace classes.
23:47 punter fixed temporarilly with plugins->namespaces
23:48 Grinnz_ my plugins work with an absolute path, dunno
23:49 Grinnz_ rather, fully qualified name
23:49 punter now it works perfectly, even without namespaces. It was a temporary error
23:49 * punter shrugs
23:49 bpmedley What was the issue?
23:50 punter morbo wouldn't restart my app, because it wasn't able to load the plugin (according to error output)
23:50 punter STDERR output
23:50 purl i guess STDERR output is not defined
23:50 bpmedley I see, some inconsistent state or something?
23:50 punter but now it's okay again, without haveing changed anything
23:51 punter I don't know if it was an inconsistent state
23:52 punter I don't understand the phrase, and how it applies to my ap
23:52 punter p
23:52 bpmedley I read “wouldn’t restart my app” as: there may have been a saved file that wasn’t reloaded properly.  Not sure it matters much, glad it’s working.
23:54 al joined #mojo

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary