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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-05-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 jberger berov: not if you use Carton
00:04 jberger and yeah, what pink_mist said
00:04 jberger there are no promises of stability our even presence
00:04 jberger we could change it to something else at any time
00:05 berov ok, I understand
00:06 berov I will have to add a $t->get_ok('/mojo/jquery/jquery.js')->status_is(200) to my tests :)
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00:07 berov to basically check if it is present at least and my be some regex for the version served
00:07 berov may be *
00:09 jberger berov: that's on you
00:09 jberger we certainly don't sanction it
00:09 berov jberger: sure!
00:12 dmanto been working on a helper
00:13 dmanto and want to know if is something interesting for other people
00:13 dmanto can you take a look and let me know?
00:13 berov dmanto: only if you give link :)
00:14 dmanto it is intended to add steps dinamically
00:14 dmanto yes that will be better i guess :)
00:14 dmanto https://github.com/dmanto/mojo-delay-add-steps
00:14 dmanto maybe i'm trying to reinvent the weel here...
00:15 dmanto don't know really
00:15 dmanto thanks!
00:17 berov dmanto: not my strong area, may be some of the more async knowledgeable guys here...
00:19 dmanto ok thank you
00:27 jberger dmanto: it does seem like a lot of extra architecture
00:27 jberger I don't quite get it though
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00:32 jberger dmanto: hmmm I don't think that works the way you think it does
00:33 jberger dmanto: can you explain what that last callback does
00:34 jberger the one that has the $more argument
00:39 jberger it seems that that is supposed to be used to restart the steps
00:39 jberger but doesn't it break the argument passing?
00:40 jberger I'm also a little worried about leaks
00:40 jberger but maybe not
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01:25 dmanto well the tests passes
01:25 dmanto the possible leaks also worries me
01:26 dmanto the helper reloads the steps at the end
01:26 dmanto it is not "recursive" because it is called from the ioloop
01:28 dmanto the $more arguments is necessary to stop reloading itself
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01:34 dmanto jberger: only needs to creatdb test
01:34 dmanto jberger: and the tests passes
01:37 jberger dmanto: how do you get arguments from the second to last step's callbacks into the arguments of the last step?
01:37 dmanto well it never leaves the controller, they are $sal
01:38 dmanto i meant output sorry $sal is for "salida" :)
01:39 dmanto i could put them in the stash, i guess its not necesary
01:39 jberger I guys I just don't get it
01:40 jberger gahhhh
01:40 jberger I guess
01:40 dmanto well the intend is to run several steps
01:40 dmanto i mean same steps several times
01:41 dmanto for instance in this example you have to retrieve a number of records
01:42 dmanto for instance 50 registers
01:45 dmanto and for some reason supouse you dont want the controller to block
01:45 dmanto it's just an example
01:45 jberger so make one Nonblocking method to fetch one and schedule 50 times?
01:45 dmanto yes something like that
01:45 purl something like that is totally possible
01:45 dmanto ahh ok
01:45 dmanto how do you do that?
01:45 dmanto i guess you could prebuild an array with the steps and send it to ioloop->delay->steps
01:45 dmanto not very nice but...
01:47 dmanto if you run it and get /non-blocking/10000
01:47 dmanto it will take several seconds but will not block
01:48 dmanto i mean you could run it with daemon and you will see it doesn't block
01:49 dmanto purl:you mean you know another way to do something like that?
01:49 purl dmanto: bugger all, i dunno
01:50 dmanto sory that i didn't understand
01:52 jberger dmanto: purl is a bot
01:52 jberger botsnack
01:52 purl :)
01:52 jberger I'll show you something soon when I get to a computer
01:53 dmanto ahhh
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02:53 Grinnz purl-- # confusing people
02:53 purl Grinnz: excuse me?
02:55 Vertig0 are you saying that there are confusing people in the perl community, or that perl is to blame for confusing people?
02:56 Grinnz purl, not perl
02:56 purl Grinnz: i'm not following you...
02:56 Grinnz :)
02:57 Vertig0 oh.. :-|
02:59 * jberger pushes purl down the stairs
02:59 * purl dodges and laughs as jberger loses balance and crashes down the stairs.
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16:59 berov git status
16:59 purl well, git status is porcelain
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17:24 jberger purl status
17:24 purl Since Sat Mar  7 09:14:24 2015, there have been 3490 modifications and 1060 questions.  I have been awake for 64 days, 8 hours, 10 minutes, 19 seconds this session, and currently reference 980663 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
17:25 jberger almost 1M factoids, nice job purl
17:28 coolo is there a howto btw? :)
17:29 coolo purl: howto?
17:29 purl it has been said that howto is at mailto:http://www.microsoft.com&item%3Dq209354@hardware.no/nyheter/feb01/Q209354%20-%20HOWTO.htm
17:29 coolo doubt it :)
17:32 jberger howto what?
17:32 purl i guess howto is at mailto:http://www.microsoft.com&item%3Dq209354@hardware.no/nyheter/feb01/Q209354%20-%20HOWTO.htm
17:33 jberger Mojolicious::Guides::Cookbook?
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17:35 mst coolo: there is no howto purl because there's no real need for one; the knowledge of how to drive the bot is acquired via osmosis by participation in the community, which is a net win because ideally you want the people who've participated in the community significantly to be the ones creating and editing factoids on the bot
17:39 lb automatic meritocracy!
17:42 jberger hmmmm, it seems that purl's weather handling is borked
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18:39 jberger just shipped the second release of Mojolicious::Plugin::RevealJS
18:39 jberger featuring much more customization ability
19:05 berov reveal.js - PDF export?!?! :)
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19:10 emperor whats the new idiomatic way to get the names of all GET/POST params
19:10 emperor $c->param in list context used to but not anymore?
19:11 mst https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Upgrading
19:11 batman emperor: @{$c->req->params->names} # https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Upgrading#parameter-name-listing
19:11 emperor oh thanks, i missed that.  i was looking around on the github to see which diff it was, even
19:15 emperor aaaand we're fixed.  ty <3
19:36 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-RevealJS-0.02 by JBERGER https://metacpan.org/release/JBERGER/Mojolicious-Plugin-RevealJS-0.02
19:37 lb "TADA! IT WAS JAVASCRIPT ALL ALONG!"
19:37 lb what
19:37 ajr_ jberger - would you like reactions to the documentation as they occur to me, or saved up and mailed all at once?
19:54 jberger ajr_: hahaha
19:54 jberger tell you what, make one big issue
19:55 jberger lb: yes, but I'm making it easier and making it possible to include runnable code
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19:56 ajr_ OK. I don't know if it's just repeated tries or very close attention, but I think I'm beginning to understand what I'm reading.
19:57 jberger ajr_: oh this is mojo documentation?
19:57 jberger I thought you meant my module
19:58 jberger if it's my module then yeah make an issue, I haven't spent a ton of time on the doc
19:58 jberger it it's mojo, hmmmmmm
19:58 ajr_ Mojo
19:58 jberger maybe a mail to me first and we can discuss
19:59 ajr_ Will do that, then.
19:59 jberger I don't want to hide conversation behind closed doors, but let me vet the conversation a little bit first
19:59 jberger I think it will help
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20:00 ajr_ We don't want to waste other people's time on a subject that probably no longer interests them.
20:01 jberger that and doc conversations sometimes get strangely contentious
20:02 jberger a guess maybe because it is inherently more subjective than what we all mostly do
20:04 ajr_ Usually, one is reading documentation to get an answer to a particular question. Both question and what makes sense in an answer depend on prior experience and assumptions, so what makes perfect sense to one may seem trivial or incomprehensible to another.
20:05 mst hence why anything of the form "reactions to the documentation" tends to be much more useful once filtered through at least one other person
20:05 mst throwing it straight up onto an issue tends to result in the useful parts getting lost under people talking past each other
20:07 ajr_ Possibly because as programmers, we aren't terribly good at listening?
20:07 ajr_ :-)*
20:08 mst what?
20:08 preaction once you've read the docs, or if you wrote the code, it's hard to accurately and fairly judge the docs. but also, until you understand the docs, it's hard to accurately critique the docs
20:08 * jberger still thinks of himself as a scientist and this discovery is useful
20:10 ajr_ At the risk of repeating myself, people who understand a subject thoroughly, (which is necessary to write correct documentation) are at the "unconscious competence" level, which means they've forgotten what it's like to be "consciously incompetent", and what that level person knows and needs to know.
20:12 mst "only experts can tell if a document is correct. only newbies can tell if a document is useful."
20:12 ajr_ Or to put it another way, if you grok a subject thoroughly, you know too much to write introductory documentation.
20:12 jberger mst++ cool phrase
20:12 ajr_ Well put, mst.
20:15 jberger anyway, gotta keep on the house work, even if this is more fun
20:15 jberger back in a bit
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21:06 jberger ajr_: one last thing that may make a lot of things clearer in some sense
21:06 jberger we are already at a tug of war between length and clarity
21:07 jberger the docs are long enough that we often have to beg people to read them, and yet because they are so densely packed I think some people miss important things
21:07 jberger and the real solution to that, as we have known for a while, is that we need a book
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23:21 romel i would be happy to read it :)
23:27 pink_mist as would we all; now we just need to get it competently written and published too :P
23:29 romel not so much things to be done
23:31 pink_mist oh, there's a lot to both writing and publishing a technical book if you want it done competently :/
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23:36 romel yea, sure. can't even imagine. moreover i can't write without mistakes :)
23:36 preaction that's what an editor is for

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