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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-05-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:13 jberger sri: what is the pg 9.5 feature you are waiting for with regard to minion?
02:13 jberger discussing at Chicago.pm
02:14 sri skip locked
02:15 jberger thanks
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02:45 damaya hey, just curious... how do you guys deal with unique constraints? E.g., tags, a user inputs a tag, the tag is already in the db, do you just wrap in an eval or use try/catch, or some form of upsert, or something I may be missing??
02:48 lluad Depends. I've done all those, dependign on what a constraint violation implies.
02:48 Snelius anyway use eval
02:50 mst damaya: http://p3rl.org/Try::Tiny or assuming postgres there's common patterns for upsert sprocs and 9.5 will do upset
02:50 lluad If you want to catch the constraint violation and do something friendly to the user, and not an update, eval is the way to go.
02:50 mst mostly I just try/catch
02:50 mst lluad: Try::Tiny is how we spell eval in the 21st century
02:50 lluad Well ... yes.
02:51 damaya Perfect, thanks
02:51 damaya I don't even care to update it, because there's nothing to update anyway
02:51 mst this is IRC. if one doesn't spell it the modern way, suddenly people are using CGI.pm and XML::Simple and you only looked away for five minutes and why are the curtains on fire is that my dog? why is the dog burning?
02:51 damaya if it's there, I don't care, I just don't want it dying for unique constraint violations. I was using eval, will switch to Try::Tiny
02:51 lluad Mmm. cgi-lib.pl.
02:52 damaya And yes, I am doing this in CGI.pm as well
02:52 damaya bringing it back
02:52 mst dude. don't say that thing in front of a traumatised man with an O-line.
02:52 damaya As Timberlake would say, "I'm bringing sexy back."
02:52 damaya haha
02:53 damaya weird, I haven't touched CGI in so many years I almost forgot it existed... almost.
02:53 mst I like to, but I run a consultancy and cpan commercial support outfit
02:53 damaya though, at my work, where we use 5.8.4, they still do everything using CGI.pm, but fortunately for me I don't touch any of that.
02:54 mst sometimes the customers have to remind me while they're running away
02:54 damaya haha
02:54 mst http://shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/war-stories-open-sesame/
02:54 mst that was fun.
02:54 mst 2002 codebase with a mandate to be able to unit test it before we took a chainsaw to it
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03:13 Snelius Try::Tiny it too slow
03:13 Snelius use eval
03:17 mst Snelius: please show me the Devel::NYTProf output proving it was slow in a real production app
03:18 mst Snelius: otherwise go masturbate into somebody else's codebase
03:20 Snelius oh, it's again.
03:20 Snelius "real prod. app"
03:20 Snelius what? it's slow in a just test
03:21 mst the overhead is irrelevant in real world apps
03:22 mst using eval instead of Try::Tiny without a Devel::NYTProf report proving you need it is incompetence for business code.
03:23 Snelius the time of execution is always relevant
03:23 mst micro-optimisation is masturbation
03:23 Snelius micro + micro == macro
03:24 Snelius )
03:24 Snelius and using eval it's a simple
03:24 mst except all the easy mistakes
03:24 mst that Try::Tiny avoids for you
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05:37 jberger if you are using 5.14+ eval is probably ok, as I understand it
05:37 jberger mst might disagree
06:05 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-DBInfo-0.002 by WOLLMERS https://metacpan.org/release/WOLLMERS/Mojolicious-Plugin-DBInfo-0.002
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07:11 damaya ok, quick question: I want to read in markdown, convert to html, and style elements (e.g., h1 gets X class, etc). Are there any good solutions out there for this?
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08:23 batman damaya: maybe you could do $dom = Mojo::DOM->new(Text::Markdown::markdown("# foo")); $dom->find('h1')->each(sub { $_->{class} = 'header' });
08:25 damaya batman: Not a bad idea! Yeah, that's exactly what I will do actually. Thank you!
08:25 batman :)
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08:59 noganex mh... is it possible to get a list of all loaded controllers during startup()?
09:03 nicomen similar to mojo routes ?
09:04 noganex i'm not really sure. i've just got a sub in every controller that needs to be called once all are loaded :/
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10:25 batman noganex: noen of the controllers are loaded until a request hit them.
10:26 batman if you want to make sure they are all loaded on startup, you have to do it manually
10:26 noganex batman: i've noticed
10:26 batman noganex: you can do it with Mojo::Loader. https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Loader#SYNOPSIS
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13:25 nicomen is this expected behaviour?
13:25 nicomen $ perl -MMojo::URL -wle 'my $u = Mojo::URL->new("/?a=a,b"); print $u; $u->query( a => "b,c" ); print $u;'
13:25 nicomen /?a=a,b
13:25 nicomen /?a=b%2Cc
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13:26 nicomen if so... then what about?
13:26 nicomen $ perl -MMojo::URL -wle 'my $u = Mojo::URL->new("/?a=a,b"); print $u; $u->query( [ b => "b,c" ] ); print $u;'
13:26 nicomen /?a=a,b
13:26 nicomen /?a=a%2Cb&b=b%2Cc
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13:40 nicomen or even simpler:
13:40 nicomen $ perl -MMojo::URL -wle 'my $u = Mojo::URL->new("/?a=a,b"); print $u; $u->query({}); print $u;'
13:40 nicomen /?a=a,b
13:40 nicomen /?a=a%2Cb
13:41 marcusr nicomen: nopaste? :-/
13:41 marcusr nicomen: did you look at t/mojo/url.t ?
13:42 jberger I have a design question, if people want to think about one with me?
13:43 jberger I'm porting this mason app to mojo
13:43 jberger and I've hit a page which is very PHP style (SQL in the view)
13:43 jberger I've pulled all the model logic into its own class which returns a data structure
13:44 jberger but it seems that that view was used in two places, in one place returned directly as an api response
13:45 jberger and the other "rendered to string" and bundled into a larger context
13:45 nicomen marcusr: no, but I looked at t/mojo/parameters.t and diff between v5.82 and v6.11 to see where the "bug" was introduced, why?
13:45 jberger because of the dual use, I can't just directly make the view tight-bound to a controller action
13:45 jberger so I could do one of three things (as I see it)
13:46 jberger (1) make a template and reuse it in the two places
13:46 jberger (2) make a helper, but now the helper is very controller-y, more than I usually like
13:47 jberger (3) bind the template to the model, having a method that takes a controller which can then render_to_string
13:47 jberger I guess of those choices I like 1 the best, but I can see the appeal of the others
13:48 jberger and maybe there is something better that I'm not thinking of?
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14:12 Grinnz this PR is making me want to go grammar nazi on the whole guides :P luckily i have more pressing things to do with my spare time
14:16 jasanj purl is a bot ?
14:17 mst a heavily customised flooterbuck infobot that's been with us longer than most people have been on this IRC network
14:17 mst as such, she's a colossal pain in the arse, much like the rest of the old regulars, but expect us to side with her over you in a fight :D
14:18 Grinnz goddammit purl
14:18 marcusr purl: don't go breaking my heart.
14:18 purl marcusr: i'm not following you...
14:18 marcusr :-/
14:19 mst jberger: 5.14 means destructors don't clobber $@ but just because perl no longer fires the footgun for you, doesn't mean it isn't still a footgun
14:23 jasanj purl: are you writen in perl ?
14:23 purl wish i knew, jasanj
14:27 jasanj where can I found the manual or something how to communicate with purl ?
14:28 mst I already told you what sort of bot she is
14:28 mst if you can't figure it out from that, you're not ready to reprogram her yet :)
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14:41 jabberwok i only insist on the correct "its" − the others are minor.
14:42 jabberwok linguistic observation: Are we Perl programmers the only ones to still use the verb "clobber" ?
14:42 cfedde yes. yes we are.
14:43 mst I'm pretty sure I've heard C programmers talk about stack clobbering
14:43 lluad Still common amongst UK folks too.
14:43 jabberwok Oldschool computer operators were a violent bunch: often having to Punch and occasionally Eject.
14:44 cfedde kill, execute
14:44 mst error: operator on fire
14:46 cfedde reminds me of the old joke.  How many IBM mainframes does it take to execute a job?  Three. Two to hold it down and one to cut its neck.
14:47 Grinnz_ "clobber" is a common term used for overwriting files, not even in a programming context
14:47 jabberwok *grin*  cfedde ... my jobs always had write-rings around their neck as protection, like those african ladies from National Geographic.
14:49 cfedde "clobber" is just one of those words that makes programmers think they are using colorfull vocabulary.
14:51 jberger my favorite is clobbering methods with attribute assignment in python
14:52 Grinnz_ it's overwritin' time
14:52 cfedde prototype object systems call that a feature.
14:54 jberger until your cow orker does it on accident, in one code branch that is rarely executed, and assigns a string (not callable)
14:57 * jabberwok hands jberger a memo.  //  from: Management.  Please don't ork the cows.
14:58 pink_mist cork the ows
14:58 mst jberger: see, that's why perl's better - strings are totally callable in perl
14:58 mst $obj->$string(@args)
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14:58 jberger mst++
14:58 jberger I do like that
14:59 jberger jabberwok: I assume you are aware of cow orkers
14:59 jberger you probably ork with a few of them
14:59 jabberwok absolutely.  i am even a member of  CowOrkJax here in jacksonville Fla.
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15:00 jberger jabberwok++
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15:18 gtodd hmm does anyone understand or actually use "slack" ?
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15:19 jabberwok the chat system?  i just started using for a client who wanted to log everything.  it seems to work ok, i guess
15:21 gtodd https://slack.com/  it seems like it would be not too hard to make a "team project space" (or whatever they are called) with mojo and plugins like convos smtp etc ... minus the gazillion "service integrations" (?) slack has
15:23 lluad I use slack.
15:24 lluad It's basically IRC for enterprise, with some nice features (both for making it a better chat client for a group of people who work together and for integrations).
15:24 mst gtodd: it's IRC with tentacles
15:24 gtodd there's lots of non geeky non software development type teams that use slack but it sort of seams skewed towards a dev / testing sort of workflow
15:24 gtodd mst: yeah
15:24 lluad It's also the new "You can make a blog using our web framework in 20 minutes".
15:25 lluad Meteor has one. I went to a Zurb demo last night; they're using "zlack" as their demo app.
15:25 gtodd I found out about it because I had Convos and Mojo running  on my screen and someone thought it "might be slack"
15:27 gtodd so I googled and found that people want to "acquire Slack"
15:27 hernan604 slack is much more than a client
15:27 hernan604 its a client and server
15:27 gtodd (the font colour scheme does sort of look Microsoft ready")  since slacks == pants .... it's almost like that old meme from slashdot era   ...
15:28 gtodd about pants and wealth ...
15:28 jabberwok pants in the US not the UK sense
15:28 gtodd hernan604: yeah the non-techie palces I have seen using it consume it as some sort of SAAS cloudy thingy
15:29 hernan604 you can use the web interface.. but they also have other gateways (IRC and jabber)
15:29 hernan604 and all those 3 are integrated
15:29 jberger <3 convos
15:30 lluad And dedicated apps for most platforms (which I guess are suspiciously HTML and javascript under the covers).
15:30 pink_mist gtodd: the term "acquire slack" is from the church of the subgenius
15:30 pink_mist it's got nothing to do with slack.com; though they may have been inspired by the church
15:30 lluad Pra' Bob!
15:30 hernan604 my basic clone of slack https://github.com/hernan604/Web-IRC
15:31 hernan604 bit of advertising :p
15:31 gtodd pink_mist: perfect ... a double meme I want thinking of the three step road to wealth ... 1. collect pants ...  2,  ???   3. kaching!!
15:31 jberger hernan604: have you thought about contributing to convos?
15:31 gtodd step 2. is left as an exercise ....
15:32 hernan604 jberger: no. convos is a client no ?
15:32 hernan604 you could use convos to connect to a slack
15:32 hernan604 you could use convos to connect to a slack *irc* gateway
15:33 jberger hmmmm, I guess I see the difference
15:33 jberger but yet
15:33 jberger do such gateways exist?
15:33 hernan604 yes
15:33 hernan604 you must enable them
15:33 gtodd I was just gradually adding pieces of Mojo together to get web client/server set up for or document sharing, groups/mailing list and then chat/IRC  ...
15:33 hernan604 i connect to slack with irssi
15:34 lluad Yeah. The slack backend supports IRC and XMPP (with significant loss in functionality).
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15:34 hernan604 now imagine, i am connected with irssi and with web... what happens if i join a channel in the web ?
15:34 jberger sure
15:34 hernan604 the irc server makes the irssi join the channel also
15:34 hernan604 so its a modified irc server
15:34 hernan604 you cant /list for example
15:35 gtodd missing bits for me were a good "forum" (sort of stackoverlow style) and a sort of dspace style document repo ... but Mojo is practically at the point were that would be easy ....
15:35 hernan604 and there are no @ops
15:35 jberger the way I use convos though, I hit the same server from all my devices
15:35 jberger so I don't have to think about that :-P
15:35 gtodd hernan604: but can't you create  "custom commands"  ?
15:35 lluad A forum / mailing list hybrid (a-la google groups, but without the suck) is something I keep thinking about.
15:35 hernan604 gtodd: custom commands ?
15:35 gtodd with slack
15:36 hernan604 what do you mean with custom commands ?
15:37 gtodd there was an "integration" that allowed that I thought ... oh well I haven't use it much .... was just happy to see a company that is on the road to riches had similar ideas :)
15:37 hernan604 yes there are integrations
15:37 hernan604 i have not used that much neither
15:37 hernan604 also i dont have interest in that.. i code perl in irssi
15:38 gtodd "Slash Commands Customized Slack commands for your team."
15:38 gtodd yeah
15:38 Grinnz_ slack also uses /voice for here and no voice for away, which is amusing
15:38 hernan604 but for example, some people set up an integration that yelds "DAily in 15 minutes" at XX o'clock
15:38 gtodd jberger:  <3 Convos  too :-)
15:39 hernan604 other people use github itegrations
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15:39 hernan604 its more or less the same thing we have been doing all the time
15:39 hernan604 but with a fancy interface
15:40 hernan604 i can upload a file for example to this room. and slack shows a message: hernan604 has uploaded file: http://slack.com/file.rar
15:40 hernan604 or post images, or codes
15:41 gtodd yeah ..
15:41 Grinnz_ it's basically combining IRC with a webchat with integration hooks, the right way
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15:41 hernan604 before i knew slack, i created a local irc server for our teams to talk... that never took off
15:42 hernan604 then i created a slack account, and more people joined
15:42 lluad Web client lowers the adoption barrier.
15:42 hernan604 yup
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15:45 gtodd I remember years if not a decade ago an ircbot for internal use (i.e.internal irc server) that posted links to uploads that were made to a sort of forum/mailing list software (which I think may have been partly Sympa) ... since it is a useful way to work for lots of people now (and not just for geeks) I guess it's going mainstream.
15:46 Grinnz_ yeah, pretty much a pastebot for files
15:48 gtodd hernan604: Web::IRC looks neat ...
15:52 gtodd hernan604: I try to keep the same sort of thing running using Mojo Convos combo
15:54 hernan604 more and more people are using chat
15:55 hernan604 there are some groups that you must pay to get invited to and participate
15:55 hernan604 there is one designer group in UK, that use slack, and you must pay $20 to get invited
15:56 hernan604 then they invite you to their free slack instance
15:56 hernan604 btw i noticed the slack servers have diferent ips
15:56 hernan604 i think they are independent instances
16:02 gtodd interesting
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16:03 gtodd at one point one of my XMPP servers (prosody or ejabberd) was tallking to XMPP "rooms" that had the same names as the IRC channels and we had to "debug" that :)
16:04 gtodd Trying to add a simple doc repo / "forum" somehow (myself or cargo cult coding)  - it seems every few weeks something appears  that does what I was trying to figure out how to code myself ...
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16:05 gtodd jberger goes to brazil and little while later a brazilian dev releases a mojo app that tries to be like stackoverlfow .. possibly just a coincidence :)
16:05 gtodd anyway mojo++ !
16:05 jberger :-P
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16:06 jberger I do what I can
16:06 hernan604 what app is that ?
16:12 jberger not sure, but I'll take rumor
16:15 jabberwok "how many is a brazillion?"
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16:20 jberger its a billion, but served with deep-fried polenta, fruit and some cheese-ball puffs
16:21 jabberwok jberger++
16:21 jberger which reminds me: https://www.google.com/search?q=carne+de+on%C3%A7a+curitiba&amp;safe=off&amp;es_sm=91&amp;biw=1435&amp;bih=758&amp;tbm=isch&amp;tbo=u&amp;source=univ&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=A5JoVfeAAczIogT67YDYDg&amp;ved=0CB0QsAQ
16:22 Grinnz_ too green for me
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16:23 jberger hahahahahah
16:23 purl LOLCON 5.5 reached.
16:23 jberger google for "grilled palmitos"
16:24 jberger 5th result is a twitter post
16:24 jberger I think you can see what I really did in brazil, I ate
16:25 jabberwok that goes to San Diego ... I-8
16:25 hernan604 http://images.guiadohamburguer.com/fotos/190-madero-burger-grill-shopping-vila-olimpia/07-madero-burger-grill-shopping-vila-olimpia-palmito-assado.jpg
16:25 hernan604 there is your meal jabberwok
16:25 hernan604 jberger*
16:25 Grinnz_ what is that o_0
16:25 jberger yeah, that's the stuff
16:25 jberger grilled split palm branch
16:26 Grinnz_ hahaha, that's a thing?
16:26 jberger served with lime
16:26 Grinnz_ interesting
16:26 jberger yeah, its mind blowing
16:26 jberger hearts of palm, but fresh and grilled
16:27 jberger I have gotten to the point where I can make a reasonable approximation from the ingredients that I can get
16:27 jberger but it went through several very failed attempts
16:29 hernan604 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_x5XG1OV2P6uZZ5FSM9Ttw
16:30 hernan604 if anyone care :p
16:36 jberger not in the slightest, but thanks
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16:51 gtodd hernan604: it's called Asking
16:52 hernan604 asking?
16:52 purl asking is just polite demanding. or seeking confirmation of an answer to which one has a partial clue because without a clue there is no question
16:52 gtodd hernan604: jberger  https://github.com/Bivee/asking
16:52 gtodd not sure it still works
16:52 hernan604 ahhh
16:52 gtodd it was not errm "complete" by any means
16:52 hernan604 thats Daniel company
16:53 hernan604 cool
16:53 jberger he's on the chat btw
16:53 jberger dvinciguerra: ping
16:54 dvinciguerra jberger: pong
16:54 jberger \o/
16:54 dvinciguerra jberger: \o hi my friend :)
16:54 hernan604 yea =D
16:54 jberger and to you!
16:54 * hernan604 slaps dvinciguerra :p
16:55 dvinciguerra hernan604: good to "see" you  :)
16:55 hernan604 dvinciguerra: we are talking about your project "Asking"
16:55 gtodd hehe  cool ... so much of Stackoverflow is in the JS editor -- (which I think is MIT licensed ?)  anyway whatever version of that "frontend" I tried a long time ago was missing many of the fancy thingies like diffs   etc.
16:56 gtodd I was asking when Asking  1.0 will be released ;-)
16:56 jberger SO's editor is open source
16:56 jberger I use it in Galileo
16:56 gtodd or about to :-P
16:56 dvinciguerra hernan604: I stoped it for a while to finish project "eureca"
16:56 gtodd jberger:  cool  I should try the latest version
16:56 hernan604 gtodd: demands you to finish "Asking"
16:56 hernan604 and release version 1.0
16:57 gtodd hahah
16:57 hernan604 =))
16:57 jberger https://code.google.com/p/pagedown/
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16:57 dvinciguerra but now I come to start "Asking" again! :)
16:57 gtodd for I long time I thought maybe it was wrtten by Ask
16:58 dvinciguerra I can finish a beta version in 2 weeks
16:59 gtodd so let me ask if Ask ever contributed to Asking
16:59 gtodd that is not even remotely humorous
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17:00 gtodd wtf was I not thinking
17:01 dvinciguerra gtodd: you need some specific feature!?
17:01 gtodd no no :-)
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17:01 gtodd I just found the software amazing :-)
17:02 gtodd dvinciguerra: hey wait SO has that "let's continue in chat" feature
17:02 gtodd dvinciguerra: maybe with Convos ... wow
17:03 dvinciguerra :)
17:04 dvinciguerra I started this project to prove that Mojolicious can be used to make cool commercial and usual projects :)
17:05 dvinciguerra Now I need rewrite the UI and finish some features
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