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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-06-04

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03:06 remarbach Hi.. first post here..  been away from perl for a while but back because of mojolicius... great package.  Have been using mongodb for datastore with python and node.  Key question ... is mango currently depreicated or good to go?
03:06 preaction i believe though it's not being actively developed by core mojo devs, it is being maintained/developed by the community
03:09 jberger remarbach: preaction is right, no longer an official project of the mojolicious team
03:09 jberger Though some users have adopted it
03:09 jberger Not sure about the current status
03:10 remarbach good to know,  I saw sri's post from ~oct 2014 and became concerned.. but since then there have new releases... so i am guessing it is good to go
03:10 jberger remarbach: worst case would be to go back to the official driver
03:11 jberger xdg and a few other perlers work for mongo
03:11 jberger On the official driver
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03:14 remarbach i stopped using perl about 5 years ago...   recently started working with mongodb with python....   and then nodejs. but recently came accross an article on perl weekly about mongo and perl..   discoved there was lots of perl expertiise at mongodb
03:15 remarbach that let me to mojo   and wow, no more node for me...  but want to stick with mongodb on the back end for the time being
03:15 cpan_mojo Mojo-Snoo-0.03 by CURTIS https://metacpan.org/release/CURTIS/Mojo-Snoo-0.03
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03:31 sri neat, postgres 9.5 now also has a jsonb_set function http://adpgtech.blogspot.de/2015/05/goodbye-jsonbreplace-hello-jsonbset.html
03:37 jberger remarbach++ enjoy!
03:37 jberger sri: cool
03:40 sri has this actually been reported to github as a bug? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/804
03:42 remarbach ok...   my next app is small subscription management app.   would you recommend use of offical mongodb driver or is mango ok?
03:45 * sri has not been paying attention to mongodb since that list post... but mango should still be fine unless you need the read preference stuff
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03:54 remarbach sri: just need standard crud stuff plus access to aggregation.
03:57 sri looks like 5.22 is already pretty strong http://cpanmetadb.plackperl.org/versions/
03:59 jberger 4.6% isn't too bad
03:59 preaction everyone's updating all their modules after the upgrade
04:00 jberger Probably some of that is smokers
04:00 preaction do smokers use cpanm?
04:00 sri i think a lot of those 5.10.1 installas are test environments too... so... yea... not that helpful stats
04:01 sri in fact, my testing 5.10.1 should be in there too
04:02 jberger preaction: hmm good point
04:02 purl nice and sharp
04:03 jberger And with cpanm-reporter borked there aren't even those users
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04:04 jberger tempire: got your ticket yet?
04:04 jberger Word is only 5 left
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05:12 bpmedley remarbach: What type of subscriptions do you want to manage?  Does mongodb/mango give you the reporting capabilities that SQL does?
05:17 remarbach bpmedley: its a property owners newsletter subscription system..   from what I have seen so far, I should be able to get what I need out of mojo/mango/mongo... but also installing the factory mongo driver now as well
05:18 bpmedley Cool stuff.  I think some people use two databases; one for the live site (speed/mongo) and another for reporting (sql).  I could be wrong on that point, tho.
05:25 sri bpmedley: wat?
05:25 purl Watt?  Watt?  I can't hear you, there's this buzzing noise where my brain should be. or https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
05:26 remarbach it wouldnt surprise me... before mongodb I wrote the server side php/mysql backend for campdoc.com a couple of years ago...  lots of sql..   mongodb has an aggregation framework that looks like it would work
05:27 sri if you have a real database in addition to mongodb, use the real database for everything!
05:27 remarbach wow...  no contest between the installs of mango versus mongodb perl driver....  mango < 1min,  MPD about 20mins
05:27 bpmedley That’s just what I’ve read.  Some people put mongo on the frontend and then use a SQL db for archiving / reporting of data.  I’m not sure if that is very popular setup.
05:27 bpmedley sri:  :)
05:27 sri redis is a much better choice for caching
05:29 bpmedley Hrmm.  I’ve never used redis, nor have I read much about it.
05:29 sri :O
05:29 bpmedley I’ve heard a lot of good things, tho.
05:29 sri do it
05:29 sri like... NOW!
05:30 sri it's like global variables shared between all your servers basically
05:30 sri with data structures and operations you can perform on them
05:31 bpmedley That makes sense.  Thanks.  I’m reading the main page/introduction.
05:31 remarbach i have my choice of DBs....   for relational what works best with mojo postgress or mariadb ... all though given the size of the project... even sqlite would work
05:32 bpmedley Is it better than memcache?
05:32 sri even non-relational is pretty nice with postgres
05:32 sri <3 jsonb
05:34 sri hahaha, bson injection attack http://sakurity.com/blog/2015/06/04/mongo_ruby_regexp.html?
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07:16 marcusr mongo living up to it's name. https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/596601381731082240/Y58Wvog2.jpg
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09:04 cpan_mojo Mojo-Webqq-1.3.3 by SJDY https://metacpan.org/release/SJDY/Mojo-Webqq-1.3.3
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11:22 jberger judofyr++ gets a mention too
11:24 marcusr jberger: what did he do now?
11:24 jberger In the article sri linked
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11:34 abracadaniel Hi, is there a simple way to get all GET parameters as a hash object ?
11:45 pink_mist $c->req->query_params->to_hash
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11:57 pink_mist also, hashes aren't objects 0_o
12:00 Adura Maybe they meant object hash...
12:12 hahainternet so am i right in thinking bridge is deprecated? my coworker (who is irc shy it seems) is trying to create an 'authenticated' area using ->bridge('/admin')->to('Login#etc')
12:12 hahainternet i haven't had a chance to write much mojo in a while
12:12 hahainternet so i'm ignorant as to the current state of things
12:15 marcusr hahainternet: it's been renamed to under to be consistent with lite.
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12:52 jabberwok marcusr: looks like https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication needs to reflect the change from bridge to under ?
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12:56 jabberwok https://github.com/benvanstaveren/Mojolicious-Plugin-Authentication/issues/10  submitted
12:59 ans1 (15:12:10) hahainternet: so am i right in thinking bridge is deprecated?
12:59 ans1 It is not only deprecated - it already gone...
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13:17 * jabberwok spins Eagles "Already Gone"
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14:02 * jberger hums along
14:02 * jberger sets jabberwok on fire
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14:25 hahainternet marcusr; ans1: thanks for your answers, i've been running round like a headless chicken dealing with extant issues at work
14:25 hahainternet so haven't had the chance to say thanks
14:46 cpan_mojo Mojo-Webqq-1.3.4 by SJDY https://metacpan.org/release/SJDY/Mojo-Webqq-1.3.4
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16:06 tempire jberger: I'm still debating
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16:06 jberger your choice will be made for you soon enough
16:06 jberger tempire: ^^
16:06 tempire indeed
16:10 tempire ok, registered
16:10 purl registered is probably a rom that has some info that describes timing sequences for speeding up access, I believe
16:11 jberger tempire: \o/
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16:22 jabberwok i had this horrible dream i was back in Phoenix in summer again. Fortunately jberger only set me on fire. (it's hard to tell the difference)
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16:39 jberger sri: wow, his response is "our tools suck, please work around them for us"?
16:45 sri jberger: literally
16:46 jberger if it was getting Java confused with Brainfuck and it came down to popularity, they would figure it out
16:48 jberger I understand that distinguishing between related languages is hard, however, a final override of "this is more popular by orders of magnitude" seems like a useful featur
16:51 jabberwok Reviewing the docs, would it be true that "Helpers, whether built-ins like DefaultHelpers and TagHelpers, or Plugins you write, become part of Mojolicious::Controller and can all be called either in a template like «%= tag 'div'» or from code as «$c->tag('div')»" -- I would really like to see that in Guides/Rendering under the Helpers section. It would really explain how all the pieces fit together: Oldschool me is learning
16:52 Grinnz_ they don't become part of Mojolicious::Controller, they get autoloaded
16:52 Grinnz_ from either the controller object, application object, or in a template
16:53 Grinnz_ and they come -from- those plugins, they don't have to come from plugins
16:53 jberger sri: well, I'll be the bad cop today, ok? https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/2149#issuecomment-108967465
16:54 sri two bad cops then ;p
16:54 * sri will block the pull request
16:54 hahainternet i missed the drama :(
16:54 sri workarounds will only make github staff care less
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17:00 jabberwok Grinnz_: ok, i am not sure what autoloaded means in this context, or where things are coming from.  I would like to help document this because it's very confusing.
17:03 jabberwok also an index so that when Guides/Rendering under "Building assets" uses the »% javascript« helper, there's a cross-reference or somewhere to look that up.  there's so much that still feels like deep water.
17:07 sri jabberwok: AUTOLOAD is a perl feature
17:08 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Controller#AUTOLOAD
17:09 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojolicious/Controller.pm#L23-L34
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17:15 * sri hands zoffix a pitchfork
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18:01 jberger zoffix++
18:03 jabberwok Aha.  Very good.  Isn't that important enough to understand, that it might bear repeating in the Guides/Rendering Helpers section?  Seeing that a few months ago would really have helped me; the bottom of Controllers doc is sufficiently obscure.
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18:09 jberger jabberwok: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#Helpers
18:11 jberger once again, the problem is that the documentation is all of qw/too-long too-dense too-comprehensive/ and clearly you can't fix one without making another worse
18:12 jberger we could talk more about how/why helpers work, but that would just make it longer, which means fewer people actually read it (rather than skim)
18:13 * jberger [snips to end of recorded conversation]
18:13 jberger ... we need a book
18:17 ZoffixWork Everyone says that.
18:17 ZoffixWork Write one!
18:17 purl Hey, why not write two?  One for the week and one for Sunday best!
18:18 ZoffixWork It'll likely be outdated by the time it hits the shelves. I think that's the problem with most technical books.
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18:21 dave instead of writing a real book, why not a wiki book? That way you could annotate it with changes and multiple people could help write it.
18:22 jabberwok i would very pleased to contribute to something like that (instead of writing "blog" posts of my personal site)
18:23 ZoffixWork Well, we have a wiki, I think. This: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/
18:23 ZoffixWork Could add useful stuff there. And list your blog, if it isn't already listed.
18:24 jabberwok =Yay=
18:24 dave heh ... what you could do for details is add a wiki link...when someone wants more detail they click the link
18:25 dave I feel it's kind of defeating the purpose of documentation to claim that writing too much will cause people not to read it
18:25 ZoffixWork I fully agree that writing too much will cause people not to read it.
18:25 dave Perhaps it's writing too much without decent organization of the details that will cause that?
18:26 jabberwok see also, Charles Dickens (paid by the word)
18:26 jabberwok "It was the best of frameworks, it was the worst of frameworks..."
18:27 ZoffixWork Literary fiction isn't the same thing as dense technical documentation :P
18:27 dave the comparison metric is not a scalar but an unknown rank tensor ;)
18:27 jabberwok microsoft's technical documentation is not literary fiction???
18:27 ZoffixWork Especially since you're not meant to read the documentation from start to finish, in order.
18:27 dave jabberwok++ lol
18:28 jabberwok y'all rule.
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18:29 dave well, I'm happy to ask questions here myself...I'm used to geek interchanges. I do feel it would be nice to be able to drill down to deep discussion of what happens in "under" or "how non blocking works" on my own
18:30 ZoffixWork There's source code for that!
18:30 ZoffixWork And if you can't understand that source code, then you likely shouldn't wonder what happens in "under."
18:30 ZoffixWork That's my stance on it, any way.
18:31 dave While I enjoy sri's concise style as an aesthetic, it sometimes takes longer to parse what he's really doing than all that. Also, it's not always true that looking at source will de-confuse you.
18:32 jabberwok dave: it will eventually.  given a sufficiently large eventuality.
18:32 sri the core docs will never be a book
18:33 sri also, there have been far less big changes recently, so a book wouldn't be outdated that quickly
18:33 jabberwok the more i looked at WordPress internals the more i wanted to run away.  the more i look at Mojo's source the more i like it.
18:33 sri which might actually be worse for authors... no new editions every year ;p
18:33 dave bah
18:33 dave not everything is financially motivated
18:34 jabberwok if we could poke O'Reilly to issue new editions of books every *decade* , I'd be happy
18:34 jabberwok "Perl Best Practices" (2005) , Damian, I'm looking at you.
18:35 dave There needs to be a "Mojo best practices" too
18:35 ZoffixWork meh
18:35 sri i think PBP has actually agred pretty well
18:36 sri the bad stuff we've never agreed with in the first place ;p
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18:36 ZoffixWork :p
18:36 dave ah the religion of programming ;)
18:36 jabberwok the dress is BLUE !
18:37 sri s/r//
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18:47 jberger ◔_◔
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21:14 batman this is news for me... maybe someone else has missed out on it: https://github.com/tdd/git-stree
21:31 jberger I have never really used any submodule subtree stuff
21:31 jberger the few times I have tried I get super confused and give up
21:31 Grinnz_ ditto
21:33 pink_mist ditto as well (tritto?)
21:35 Grinnz_ wouldn't that be "mew"?
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21:39 pink_mist mew? I'm assuming the 'di' prefix (meaning 'two') is what ditto comes from :P it probably isn't...
21:39 Grinnz_ mew is the only other pokemon that knows Transform, and is the exact same weight as ditto
21:40 Grinnz_ </pokemontheories>
21:41 pink_mist lol
21:55 jberger sri: are you following what LeoNerd is working on on #p5p?
21:56 jberger C# style async/await
22:17 jabberwok http://www.wlindley.com/mojo/heading-index.html   an amusing little index to all the headings in all the Mojo(licious) documents.  made with a one-liner.  is this worth cleaning up ?
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