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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-06-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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07:08 CandyAngel Hm.. is it better for me to code worker behaviour in a helper while developing it?
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07:09 CandyAngel Doing it the way I'm doing it seems too clunky and difficult for Mojo :|
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09:14 cpan_mojo Pipeworks-0.03 by JANUS https://metacpan.org/release/JANUS/Pipeworks-0.03
09:17 punter Is it possible, inside a blocking script, to start an event loop in order to execute 10 parallel useragent web requests, and then stop the event loop to continue execution of the blocking script?
09:17 punter with Mojolicious?
09:18 nicomen yes
09:19 punter thanks nicomen. Could you please point to a webpage describing something like how to do it?
09:20 nicomen https://gist.github.com/nicomen/bf74b6d96eca1fe55a4b
09:24 pink_mist punter: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Tutorial#User-agent
09:24 punter thank you everyone!
09:24 pink_mist the $c->delay in one of those examples is what you should be looking at
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10:08 punter It's important to call the ->delay method on Mojo::IOLoop->delay(...) to achieve the effect I described
10:08 punter sorry, I mean the ->wait method
10:09 nicomen punter: hm?
10:11 punter nicomen:  in the context of a blocking script (as I said I have), it's important to call ->wait, otherwise nothing happens
10:11 nicomen ah sorry, I thought script meant web page for some reason
10:12 nicomen you want to stop the requests halwafay even?
10:12 nicomen you might want to add some kind of delay step that allows you to stop it I guess?
10:12 pink_mist halfway..? what makes you say that?
10:13 nicomen he says "then stop the event loop to continue execution of the blocking script"
10:13 pink_mist yes
10:13 nicomen he didn't say, finish the event loop
10:13 pink_mist after he's waited for it to complete
10:13 pink_mist that's clearly what he meant
10:13 nicomen well, then stop it from inside a last step
10:13 nicomen instead of my ->render, you stop it?
10:13 pink_mist ->wait does what he wants
10:13 nicomen ah sorry
10:13 pink_mist I don't understand what you're going on about
10:14 nicomen I didn't understand what he continued to say, if he had solved it ;)
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10:52 punter nicomen: sorry I was away
10:52 punter I meant "finish the event loop"
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11:33 cpan_mojo Pipeworks-0.04 by JANUS https://metacpan.org/release/JANUS/Pipeworks-0.04
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12:42 CandyAngel Is there a reason why there is no: ./app minion reset
12:42 CandyAngel Command line.. command.. thing
12:43 CandyAngel Or did I miss it?
12:43 sri how often do you reset your entire job queue? Oo
12:44 CandyAngel Umm.. quite often when I'm developing?
12:44 sri personally, if i ever need it i'll just use the eval command
12:44 sri ./app eval 'app->minion->reset'
12:45 CandyAngel Okay, that works, thankies
12:45 CandyAngel I only really want it while devving
12:48 CandyAngel I've reset it 3 times since you told me :P
12:54 jberger I still want to find a place to give my "mojolicious at the command line" talk
12:55 jberger when using helpers the right way, the eval command is life changing
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13:01 CandyAngel \o/
13:01 CandyAngel Yay, it seems to work alright
13:01 CandyAngel Just need to right in the actual handlers and I'm done
13:01 CandyAngel For this project :)
13:01 jberger CandyAngel++
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13:05 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vtML5
13:05 good_news_everyon mojo/master fc39d9d Sebastian Riedel: show how to remove all parameters
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13:05 CandyAngel need to write*
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13:09 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vtMqw
13:09 good_news_everyon mojo/master 3b16659 Sebastian Riedel: test parameter removal
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13:10 CandyAngel sri: I implemented your suggestion of two task names
13:10 sri :)
13:11 CandyAngel I have a node (I use the Leo editor) which just fails the task if the task name ends in '--FREEZE', and I clone that into all the tasks
13:12 CandyAngel So I have a bunch of subs and if any return 1, it just appends the --FREEZE and enqueue normally
13:14 CandyAngel And then in my UI, it has a "thaw" link next to jobs that have --FREEZE and retries == 0 too
13:14 CandyAngel Which becomes retry if it fails again
13:14 sri odd issue with carton https://github.com/kraih/mojo-pg/issues/7
13:23 Grinnz sri, maybe if the provides were specified in the META it wouldn't add its own?
13:24 Grinnz i just have a dzil plugin do that, dunno
13:24 sri Grinnz: or carton needs to learn about examples directories
13:24 sri after all, it doesn't add modules in the t directory either
13:24 Grinnz true
13:30 CandyAngel If I was allowed to run a VM and Mojo app at work, I'd provide my own interface for our systems here
13:30 CandyAngel Because the ones we get suck :|
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14:12 CandyAngel Speaking of VMs, I need to pick a new CPU to buy
14:13 buu sri: So if I was fixing my mojox nonsense would I just have a single class, mojo plugin foorenderer that had all the code in it?
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14:20 sri yes
14:23 buu Ok
14:23 buu After rereading this code none of it makes any sense
14:23 buu But I guess it works..  mostly
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14:42 lb so this is nice, https://blogs.aws.amazon.com/security/post/TxCKZM94ST1S6Y/Introducing-s2n-a-New-Open-Source-TLS-Implementation
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15:01 CandyAngel Bleh, thought so. I can run mojolicious on my work computer, but no-one else can connect to it
15:02 genio open the proper ports and voila
15:05 CandyAngel On my work computer? Pretty sure I'd get fired
15:05 Grinnz_ heh
15:06 CandyAngel On the flipside, if they threw a fit at me for running a service from my computer, I can be like "Umm.. aren't you the ones at fault for leaving random ports open?"
15:07 CandyAngel And I can be like "Well, feel free to hack it. If you can, I quit, if you can't, I'm already doing a better job than you"
15:08 CandyAngel Because umm.. I may have discovered vulnerabilities in our intranet stuff
15:08 sri that does not sound like a nice job
15:09 jberger sri: then you wouldn't have liked working at $bank either
15:09 CandyAngel I don't work in IT, but I'm easily the most IT competent person on site
15:09 CandyAngel And I am probably in the top 25% in competence in the IT department too :P
15:09 sri jberger: i've worked at $telco... it sucked pretty bad
15:10 jberger yeah, I'm sure that sucks too
15:10 jberger ????
15:10 sri ????
15:10 Grinnz_ things like this make me glad i work with decent programmers
15:10 ajr_ Revealing a vulnerability will not make you popular; ask Randal Schwartz.
15:11 * genio wonders how much solar panels to power my house would run me
15:12 CandyAngel I'd just like to work with people who care about, and know, their limitations
15:12 sri solar panels with those new tesla home battery packs seem pretty cool
15:12 CandyAngel IT dept. going "We are amazing, we are without fault" is so annoying when you can change the user ID on a query and access the system as someone else
15:12 cfedde Should it come to it your actions will be interpreted in the worst possible way.
15:12 jberger sri: did you ask miyagawa about the Carton thing?
15:12 jberger cfedde: o/
15:12 sri jberger: nope
15:12 cfedde jberger:  \o/
15:13 CandyAngel Or you can just run "export data" and it exports ALL the data, even the confidential stuff that shouldn't be anywhere near the end users client
15:14 genio CandyAngel: An IT department that thinks their shit doesn't stink is the worst kind to have.  I work in our IT department and we are constantly fixing shit and getting help where needed (we got rid of everyone who thought they were gods and couldn't document/help).
15:14 sri CandyAngel: you take the data and blackmail your way up the corporate ladder ;)
15:14 CandyAngel :P
15:14 genio But we also have idiot developers who think they know more than us... it goes both ways
15:15 CandyAngel Also
15:15 genio We gladly provide documentation proving when they're wrong, and listen to them when they're right
15:16 CandyAngel Someone in IT sent out a "test" phishing email to see who would click on it
15:16 CandyAngel Cue 75% of the IT deptartment clicking on it..
15:16 genio hahaha
15:16 CandyAngel They didn't even bother sending it to me because they knew I wouldn't :P
15:16 CandyAngel Like..
15:17 CandyAngel When the firewall thing pops up and says "Allow/Deny", I always click Deny
15:17 CandyAngel Most of the time, that then stops my computer working..
15:17 CandyAngel Apparently, despite dictating what software we can have doesn't give them enough information to preset the firewall
15:18 CandyAngel The only time a virus has ever been introduced.. was under the instruction of IT
15:19 CandyAngel And the people I work with say things like "There isn't an ozone layer" so.. you know.. funtimes
15:19 jberger CandyAngel: yeah the phishing tests are hilarious
15:19 genio We have a more open culture here where IT isn't allowed to prevent people from being idiots.  We get virus laden machines coming in for repair constantly from developers who consider themselves too smart to be wrong.  Again, it goes both ways.
15:20 genio I should quote "developers" sometimes here.
15:20 CandyAngel You're so lucky (and I'm so jealous)
15:20 CandyAngel I want to work somewhere were I can be as helpful as possible
15:21 CandyAngel Preferably with minimal usage of Excel..
15:22 * neilhwatson wishes he had a dollar for everytime he saw Excel used as database.
15:23 CandyAngel yeah
15:23 CandyAngel We're not allowed to use Access, so we have to use Excel instead
15:23 CandyAngel Which basically means all the reasons we aren't allowed to use Access are in effect.. and none of the safeguards of an actual database :)
15:23 CandyAngel Such fun.
15:23 * genio cringes at the thought of either
15:23 CandyAngel However
15:24 neilhwatson genio: amen
15:24 CandyAngel I have recently discovered I may be able to create Access database from Excel
15:24 CandyAngel >.>
15:24 CandyAngel <.<
15:24 CandyAngel I need to learn ADO or something though
15:25 neilhwatson Surely there are better solutions than Access or Excel for you to use.
15:26 CandyAngel The theory goes we aren't allowed to use anything in case the person that makes it leaves and IT has to maintain it
15:26 CandyAngel Howeveeeeeeeeer
15:26 CandyAngel They don't know enough about Excel to maintain the Excel spreadsheets that I make :P
15:27 jberger CandyAngel: DBD::SQLite
15:27 purl somebody said DBD::SQLite was a wrapper around sqlite or horribly insecure
15:27 jberger purl: shut it!
15:27 * purl gives jberger a frosty glare
15:27 CandyAngel jberger: Yeah, I have used that, but I'm not allowed to
15:28 CandyAngel I'm not even supposed to have Perl
15:28 jberger CandyAngel: :o
15:28 genio weird company you work for
15:28 jberger I've said it before and I'll say it again, a company that doesn't let you have the tools you need to do your job is not letting you do your job
15:28 CandyAngel Yup
15:28 CandyAngel And how so genio ?
15:29 neilhwatson VB script is permitted however.
15:29 ajr_ It's much better to show people how to do things properly, (and what not to do), than to clean up after they've kludged their way around it.
15:30 CandyAngel neilhwatson: VBA is something I'm allowed to use, but no-one in IT knows that either
15:30 neilhwatson Must be alot of shadow IT at your place.
15:30 CandyAngel Shadow IT?
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15:33 jberger I'm assuming that means, IT people doing what needs to be done without authorization, since it needs to be done but it wouldn't be approved
15:34 ajr_ Shadow IT - users developing their own programs or running their own machines.
15:34 CandyAngel Ahhh
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15:34 CandyAngel That would be me (at least on this site)
15:34 CandyAngel I don't know what other sites are like
15:34 CandyAngel But I am starting to get requests to go to other sites and build things for them too
15:35 CandyAngel Aside from running my own machine.. they weren't happy when they *cough*finally*cough* noticed my laptop on the network
15:36 jberger sri: actually we probably want to no_index the examples directory too: https://github.com/kraih/mojo-pg/blob/master/Makefile.PL#L24
15:37 genio man.  solar panels and equipment gets expensive quickly!
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15:42 jberger genio: one of the big knocks has always been that it takes ~$lifespan_of_panels to recoup the cost of buying them
15:42 Grinnz_ it can help if you get a huge tax benefit from it
15:43 jberger Grinnz_: which is why the huge tax benefits are there
15:43 Grinnz_ unfortunately, my electric provider isn't eligible for that
15:43 genio yea.  It would be nice to not have a ~$3-400 monthly utility bill, but I can't afford the cost for solar to offset it
15:43 jberger there is a social benefit to having the panels, which economics can't yet fullfil
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15:44 joelb even with the tax bribe, I wasn't ready to gamble being in the same house for 20 years or not losing out in a house sale
15:45 Grinnz_ yeah..
15:45 joelb Is there a way to linebreak a template line beginning "%==" ?
15:45 jberger joelb: I don't know what you mean
15:46 joelb jberger: I don't know what you don't know
15:46 jberger note also that <%-- %> is more flexible than %==
15:46 jberger oops <%== %>
15:46 joelb yes, but before I rewrite a very long template, I'm curious if there's a way
15:46 jberger "linebreak a template"
15:47 joelb ah, you mis-parsed; there's a "line" at the end of that phrase
15:47 CandyAngel I can break templates.. that's close enough, right?
15:47 jberger joelb can I ask your last name, just so I don't feel like I'm talking to myself :-)
15:47 joelb I am Mr Black
15:47 jberger ok
15:47 jberger thanks
15:47 jberger j == joel also
15:47 joelb ha
15:48 joelb why do you hide your forename?
15:48 CandyAngel Joels, joels, everywhere (I'm in another channel with a Joel)
15:48 joelb tell him to join us over here, we're having a party
15:49 jberger joelb: I wouldn't say hide, but especially when I was a publishing scientist, I wanted people to be able to recognize me by nick
15:49 CandyAngel o7 roger that
15:49 jberger and last name is more unique than first
15:49 joelb ah
15:49 joelb did you get many scientists recognising you on #mojo?
15:50 jberger no, but the name is established at this point :-)
15:50 purl okay, jberger.
15:51 ajr_ Sympathise with brian d foy, who had to resort to lower-case to be unique.
15:51 jberger purl: forget but the name
15:51 purl jberger: I forgot but the name
15:51 jberger brian and I have discussed at length
15:51 joelb sorry I wasn't there
15:51 jberger he also had to add the d, which isn't actually in his name
15:52 CandyAngel You've spoken to brian d foy? :|
15:52 jberger this paper (and followups) https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&amp;hl=en&amp;user=wCxlFloAAAAJ&amp;citation_for_view=wCxlFloAAAAJ:d1gkVwhDpl0C are related to https://metacpan.org/pod/Physics::UEMColumn
15:52 jberger CandyAngel: sure, he was chicago.pm for a while and still stops by when he gets a chance
15:53 CandyAngel thatssoawesome
15:54 joelb ye, he's a legend
15:54 joelb a living leg end
15:57 jberger he has on rare occasions been on the channel too, though he isn't much for irc
15:57 jberger sri and mst are similarly "famous" btw
15:58 jberger and they are always around
15:58 CandyAngel ^_^
15:58 CandyAngel And they both have to deal with me.. poor people :(
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16:48 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vtDdI
16:48 good_news_everyon mojo/master f2f98d0 Sebastian Riedel: do not index examples
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16:54 sri jberger: TOO LATE!
17:03 sri i literally got the notification mail right after i committed the change
17:03 sri although, you did put examples after t
17:04 jberger :'(
17:04 jberger actually, when I look at the generated META files, it seems that t is automagically no_index
17:04 jberger but better to be safe and include it anyway
17:05 sri hmm
17:05 sri is the mac app store down for everyone?
17:07 sri oh shit, looks like the update failed and broke my macbook :(
17:07 lluad Seems up for me.
17:09 nicomen more importantly indiegogo is down for everyone
17:09 nicomen no greek crowdfunded bailout ;/
17:09 hernan604 o shit does that mean delays in mojo releases ?
17:10 hernan604 <3 linux and freebsd 8>
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17:31 jontaylor has anyone else seen a sudden increase in the number of users erroneously replying to system generated emails?
17:31 jontaylor I’ve got a web app that needs a user to invite contacts
17:31 jontaylor whenever they send a system generated invite, I am getting a lot of users replying to it, thinking it’ll go to the person who sent the invite
17:32 jontaylor i’ve worked around it for now by setting reply-to headers, but it never used to be a problem, and i’ve been running this for 4 years
17:41 Grinnz_ jberger: iirc, t and inc are no_index by default usually
17:41 Grinnz_ jontaylor: our reply-to goes to a nonexistent mailbox, so fortunately i would have no idea if that was the case ;)
17:42 jontaylor heh :)
17:42 jontaylor I’ve been manually forwarding the odd email for years, but suddenly man, its like everyone is doing it
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17:52 jberger jontaylor: users are getting stupider?
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18:00 lluad Deceptive emails that claim to be "from" someone but are actually from a different email address are a problem that keeps getting rediscovered. Just ask mailer-daemon. :)
18:00 lluad Things like From: "Appname (on behalf of luser)" <notifications@appname.com> supposedly help.
18:00 Grinnz_ those damn lusers
18:00 genio https://twitter.com/bloerwald/status/448415935926255618
18:16 genio sri: I haven't updated to 10.10.4 yet but the other updates available to me are performing their jobs properly at the moment
18:17 Grinnz_ genio: lol
18:21 lb thanks, past-lb for upgrading perl without installing all the modules needed for sending invoices
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18:25 jberger past lb should have a cpanfile which knows these things
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18:29 lb he should
18:29 Grinnz_ cpanfile++
18:30 Grinnz_ whenever i wanted to make a "list of dependencies" file, i gave up because there wasn't a standard way for feeding such a thing to cpan
18:31 sri 10.10.4 update broke my os x completely, had to restore from time machine
18:32 sri second try succeeded afterwards
18:32 Grinnz_ o_0
18:32 genio eww.  I don't have TM here at work, so I'll just wait to update the work mac mini
18:33 sri oh well, more time to play hearthstone :D
18:34 sri although... it looks like i might never get past rank 5 :S
18:34 genio ouch "Apple to pay $450 million in e-book price-fixing suit"
18:36 sri i bet they can find that much between the couch cushions at apple
18:37 genio half a billion has to hurt no matter how rich you are
18:38 sri well, they are going to pay a lot more just because taylor swift wrote an angry letter
18:38 Grinnz_ heh
18:43 sri reminds me that i've not watched the new season of silicon valley yet
18:44 genio it was decent although I found it slightly less funny than the first season
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19:37 eitz Guys, Is it possible to add a new folder like "public"  which mojo could serve assets?
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19:42 lluad You can. I think it's something push @{$app->static()->paths}, '/my/new/static/path'.
19:42 lluad Check out Mojolicious::Static for the details (I think the first matching file in the path is returned).
19:43 Grinnz_ https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Static#paths
19:44 Grinnz_ https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious#static
19:45 eitz Thanks!!
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20:20 sri odd how suddenly nobody cares about the validation extensions anymore
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20:23 cfedde TIME! Is marching on o/` And time.. is still marching on.
20:26 marty joined #mojo
20:26 mst it's June! Keep up, time!
20:30 eitz joined #mojo
20:31 * jberger voted on validations
20:31 jberger mst: its damn near July! though this June is a second longer than usual, so I guess this has to be taken into account
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20:53 CandyAngel cfedde: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1YGgLV3ZgM
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22:33 sri and just as i ranted about corrupt eu politicians ruining the internet... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/eu-plans-to-destroy-net-neutrality-by-allowing-internet-fast-lanes/
22:36 sri they actually managed to kill net neutrality and regulated roaming
22:36 sri that takes some serious dedication
22:39 lluad "internet fast lanes" is non-tech journalist speak.
22:40 lluad We like CDNs. We like QoS. We like that Netflix colocates at our ISP. But "fast lanes" are bad.
22:42 lluad (But the roaming thing ... yeah.)
22:42 sri no, we do not like QoS
22:43 lluad As someone who relies on VoIP for phone service, I do.
22:44 sri what if it costs extra in the future?
22:45 sri "for just $5 per month you can get our new fast netflix package!"
22:45 sri "or how about fast youtube for another $2?"
22:46 tianon intentional stutter in youtube videos to incentivize upgrading
22:46 sri "oh, you like twitch?... touch luck, we don't have a contract with them, so your video will keep stuttering"
22:46 lluad Meh. That's not a problem with QoS, that's a problem with shitty ISPs.
22:47 sri s/c/g/
22:47 lluad Who will always be with us, I'm sure.
22:47 purl sure. is probably the trac database backed up?
22:48 sri and then you have ISPs like comcast and time warner, that decide not to compete and just split up the country into two monopolies
22:49 lluad Yeah, US cable TV politics is a mess.
22:50 CandyAngel Hm
22:50 CandyAngel Can you use non blocking ua get during a helper?
22:50 sri purl: comcast?
22:50 purl comcast is like really fucking up. or a decent isp, but their customer service and technicians are uniformly COCK SMOKERS or what the Spaniards call El Terrible.
22:50 sri purl: no, comcast is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcny_pixDw
22:50 purl okay, sri.
22:53 sri CandyAngel: sure, just like you do in an action
22:54 CandyAngel Ah, I have to do render_later after the delay callback bit, I got it, thankies :)
22:55 CandyAngel Does render_later just go back to the IOLoop or something?
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23:06 CandyAngel Oh wait.. it doesn't actually work
23:06 CandyAngel Callling the helper returns the output of $c -> render_later or some sort of id number (if the last call is the app -> ua -> get
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