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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-08-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 jberger Perhaps I should make a blog post about rc files
00:03 jberger I ... really ... don't ... know what to do about vans
00:03 jberger Bans
00:05 * jberger is at an outdoor showing of Star Trek with the CSO  playing the music
00:05 jberger So I'm afk for a few more hours
00:16 nicomen isn't it possible to nest a $ua->get(..., sub { ... $ua->post() } ?
00:16 nicomen I mean is it possible to nest a $ua->get(..., sub { ... $ua->post(..., sub { ... }) } ?
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01:13 jberger nicomen: you can, but you should consider delays instead
01:16 nicomen yeah I was considering that, but nt sure how to go forth
01:16 nicomen but solved my issue, was caling $end->() in the wrong place
01:17 jberger nicomen: try passing a minimal example
01:17 jberger You shouldn't really need to call $end yourself in most cases
01:18 jberger Pasting, silly swipe type
01:18 nicomen I can do it later, need to get some sleep, but thanks ;)
01:19 jberger sri if I understand it now, the problem is mst's accidental ban evasion
01:19 jberger ?
01:20 jberger I don't see any further behavior problems, what is a typical irc punishment for ban evasion?
01:29 jberger Intermission over
01:29 jberger http://imgur.com/e6fnzAy
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02:05 buu is that a startrek
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02:25 dave star trek continues? :D
02:26 jberger The first of the chris pine
02:27 dave chris pine?
02:27 jberger The new movies
02:27 dave ahhh ok
02:27 dave startrekcontinues.com :D
02:27 dave not sure I like Syler as the new spock
02:28 jberger I didn't know that name
02:28 jberger Oh I like him
02:28 dave from Heroes
02:28 dave not sure the actor's real name lol
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02:28 jberger This was a thing they do here, they remove the musical score and the Chicago symphony plays instead
02:29 dave wow
02:29 jberger The last few years they did the the Lord of the Rings movies
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06:49 tempire Am I the only one who looks at booking.com donating 60k, and thinks, "That's all?"
06:50 Lee probably
06:55 marcusr jberger: pretty sure it's self-choking.
06:56 marcusr tempire: it seems pretty good to me, not sure if money is going to fix p5p tho
06:57 Snelius it's money to close perl6 dev. )
06:58 marcusr Snelius: no?
06:59 tempire It's for perl5 core
07:00 Snelius yes
07:00 tempire It's just the marketing copy that I think is strange.
07:00 tempire Corporate-wise, 60k is nothing.
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07:01 Lee tempire: they've put in over 250k the last 3(?) years
07:04 tempire rock on
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07:09 marcusr yeah, I think that's pretty good
07:10 marcusr if other perl companies were pulling their weight like booking wrt maintaining p5...
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07:12 Lee IIRC they also employ a couple of core devs, who i imagine will be spending at least *some* of their time doing core dev work
07:13 Lee so it isn't just about the $$$
07:14 marcusr hopefully they give stevan some time for p5-mop
07:14 marcusr I see he's commiting to https://github.com/stevan/p5-mop/commits/master :)
07:18 Snelius tempire: anyway 60k > 0 :)
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10:46 dimuls hi 2 all
10:47 dimuls i need help with Mojo::Exception and Mojo::Log
10:47 dimuls can some one help me?
10:49 dimuls i want to see stacktraces in log on errors. How can i do that?
11:00 pink_mist have you tried setting ->verbose(1) on the error object?
11:00 pink_mist *exception object
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11:02 t4nk401 Hi Everyone! Is it possible to make an internal redirect in mojo to a different controller?
11:10 nicomen yes
11:14 t4nk401 How?
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11:16 marcusr We really do not recommend doing that, t4nk401. You probably want to use a helper instead.
11:19 t4nk401 using a helper will probably result in code duplication or require heavy refactoring at least, because I want to use an existing controller which renders a page
11:20 t4nk401 so, ideally I want to reroute a request from one controller to another
11:21 dimuls pink_mist, tried. It hust adds lines_before and lines_after, not stacktrace
11:23 pink_mist t4nk401: just put the code in that controller into a helper, then call that helper from both places you wanted to call it from
11:26 dimuls one use case of stacktraces in log: Mojo::Pg throws Mojo::Exception, and in log i see Mojo::Pg::Database internals, but i want to see controller method in which error happened. Stacktrace can help.
11:26 t4nk401 pink_mist, ok, I'll try. Can I just call Another::Route->new->my_action() from my route?
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11:31 marcusr t4nk401: you can just call My::Controller::action($self) too, but it's not a path I would recommend.
11:31 t4nk401 marcusr, what would you recommend? Using a helper looks ugly to me.
11:31 marcusr t4nk401: that's what I already recommended.
11:32 marcusr or a bigger refactor if that's not viable
11:32 marcusr sounds like you're putting too much into your controllers, they should mostly just be glue between view/model
11:33 t4nk401 marcusr, there's much glue, yes :)
11:33 t4nk401 seems like there's no easy way
11:34 marcusr t4nk401: the internal dispatching strategy ends in insanity, I've gone down that path using catalyst, probably further than anyone.
11:35 marcusr I think being the author of Catalyst::Plugin::SubRequest gives me some authority in saying this is a bad idea.
11:35 t4nk401 marcusr, what is a bad idea?
11:35 t4nk401 marcusr, rerouting?
11:36 marcusr t4nk401: internal dispatching in the controller layer
11:36 marcusr redispatching
11:36 t4nk401 marcusr, probably it is
11:36 t4nk401 marcusr, what I want to achieve is to have some sort of dynamic routing where reoute config is stored in the DB :)
11:37 t4nk401 marcusr, probably I need to rething the whole picture
11:39 * marcusr flees in panic from the reincarnation of Simon Cozens.
11:42 t4nk401 does anyone else have any other ideas about redispatching request from one controller to another?
11:42 t4nk401 other than helper and My::Controller::action($self)...
11:42 nicomen before_dispatch hook?
11:43 t4nk401 nicomen, hmm... how?
11:44 t4nk401 nicomen, can you point me to any examples?
11:44 t4nk401 nicomen, the doc is very sparce
11:44 t4nk401 but yeah, it looks promising
11:46 nicomen $app->hook( before_dispatch => sub { self->req->url->path('/new-path') if some_condition; });  # might work
11:47 nicomen but I think you should take a step back and consider why you need to re-route
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13:32 jberger t4nk401: I mean you can avoid the router all together if you want
13:33 jberger Use a catch all route and from there do whatever you like
13:33 jberger I'm not saying it's the best, but depending on your use case
13:36 Grinnz yeah usually these things seem to be "reimplementing the router", but if all your routes are in the DB and can change more often than application startup, it would seem you would have to do that anyway
13:36 jberger marcusr: oh good he's finally moving the new code into the repo
13:36 Grinnz p5-mop?
13:37 Grinnz i'm getting antsy :)
13:37 jberger I was all pumped for that (p5-mop) after yapcna and then got left hanging
13:38 Grinnz i'm really hopeful for it to be a nice built-in OOP solution
13:39 jberger Did you see his talk?
13:39 jberger If not go do it
13:40 Grinnz ill make a note of that
13:43 Grinnz ooh, he has separate roles and classes now, cool
13:43 Grinnz i was a little worried about that
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14:10 dimuls help me plz: i want to see stacktraces in log on errors. How can i do that?
14:11 dimuls jberger, i know, y r pro
14:15 jberger dimuls: I haven't tried that before
14:15 jberger of course you could subclass Mojo::Log and use Devel::StackTrace to get one
14:16 jberger actually you don't even need to subclass, just change the message event handler
14:17 jberger $log->unsubscribe('message')->subscribe(message => sub { ... })
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15:01 jberger thinking about it again, you don't even need to unsubscribe the original handler
15:01 jberger just add you own second handler
15:01 jberger which logs a stack trace if the type was an error
15:09 dimuls thanx, ill try
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15:09 dimuls this is satisfactional solution for development mode
15:10 dimuls ...if not best
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15:21 sri wow, ibm is working on jit for cpython and mri ruby
15:22 jberger what is mri ruby?
15:23 sri matz's ruby interpreter
15:23 jberger is that like saying "the original interpreter" or did he make a new one
15:23 jberger ?
15:23 sri the original
15:24 jberger run4flat is working on some Perl jit stuff on CPAN
15:24 sri https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOnyJurioyw
15:25 jberger it was just uploaded a few days ago, https://metacpan.org/pod/C::Blocks
15:25 sri there's a new toolkit they've extracted from their jvm
15:25 jberger is this parrot-ng?
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15:38 sri does this seem like a bad idea to anyone else? https://github.com/kraih/minion/pull/12
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15:50 jberger I can see why he wants it, but adding a job returns the job number right? so why does it matter
15:51 jberger also, are the jobs numbered in order?
15:51 jberger I seem to recall that one of the backends didn't do that
15:51 jberger maybe I'm wrong
15:52 sri postgres uses a bigserial, and file backend just arbitrary md5 checksums
15:53 sri and yes, ids are of course returned
15:53 sri and before someone says "but you can run out of ids when you test a lot!"
15:53 sri no, you really can't
15:54 sri i've done the math before
15:54 Grinnz_ heh
15:54 sri "you would have to add 292271023 jobs per second to run out of ids in 1000 years"
15:54 Grinnz_ yeah with bigserial it is really hard to run out
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16:26 sri haha, he just said the second time that it can be useful in some cases without mentioning a case ;p
16:30 sri interesting overview of ruby web frameworks http://blog.codeship.com/a-survey-of-non-rails-frameworks-in-ruby-cuba-sinatra-padrino-lotus/
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16:45 jontaylor I did a boatload of ruby and sinatra dev before coming back to perl, the problem with the ruby frameworks is everthing you gain in initial development speed you lose by trying to keep everything up to date and follow the trends
16:46 jontaylor *rails and sinatra
16:46 hernanGOA cool
16:46 hernanGOA tell us more =)
16:46 hernanGOA i love these language gossips
16:47 jontaylor its nothing wrong with the language
16:47 jontaylor nothing stops someone from freezing all their dependencies and keeping an app going for 10 years in rails
16:47 sri this comes to mind http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/08/11/what-its-like-to-come-back-to-a-ruby-project-after-6-months/
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16:53 jontaylor I miss NewRelic though :(
16:55 jontaylor I’ve been working on a kind of newrelic clone for mojolicious in my spare time though, its like the last missing peice for me
16:56 hernanGOA missing for ?
16:57 jontaylor Some of my customers require some kind of application performance monitoring
16:57 jontaylor most don’t need anything as powerful as newrelic though, some can get by just fine with nginx logs (with a small change to include request time in the log format)
16:59 hernanGOA aha cool
17:00 hernanGOA opensource ?
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17:01 jontaylor i’m not sure yet, its been partially funded by a customer, which is a mistake in hindsight
17:02 jontaylor there is some scope for opensourcing it so they can save on some maintainance costs, not had that conversation yet
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17:17 marcusr I've eaten lunch at newrelic Portland office. Great view
17:17 marcusr Ideally they should just support mojolicious :)
17:17 marcusr I'm going to badger my friends about it.
17:21 jontaylor thats like my nightmare at this point heh
17:22 marcusr :D
17:22 * marcusr messages caleb on facebook
17:23 jontaylor :(
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17:29 jontaylor that actually makes me feel really anxious, not a friendly place this is it :(
17:35 stephan48 jontaylor: your solution would be a selfhostable performance monitoring plattform for mojo apps?
17:36 jontaylor I was thinking of making it free to host your own, but have a hosted solution that was paid for too, but i’m not sure I want to say anything else about it now
17:38 sri seems to me like you could only benefit from talking more about it
17:39 stephan48 sounds like a interesting project... if done right it might very well compete to newrelic and other similar projects
17:40 stephan48 one interested aspect could be the selfhosting
17:40 stephan48 interesting*
17:41 jontaylor i’m trying to keep the dependencies down to make that easier for people, and using carton to bundle up the deps, at the moment it just needs Mojolicious, Minion and postgres
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17:43 jontaylor I’ve got the basics working now, request time, number and content of DB queries, and any webservices performed, including doing cross application tracing
17:43 jontaylor and the reporting is efficient by having minion workers aggregate data into minutes/hours/days/weeks
17:44 stephan48 a bit like rrd?
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17:47 jontaylor Yeah in that it does roll ups
17:48 stephan48 okey
17:48 jontaylor I keep the variance though
17:48 jontaylor because otherwise you get data loss over longer periods of time
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18:08 henq hi , is this chatroom only for dev on mojo self, or also okay for end-user questions?
18:08 Grinnz both
18:09 * Grinnz should have said, "yes"
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18:13 pink_mist well, end-user might mean the visitors to your mojo site :P
18:16 henq okay thx ;-)  ; If I make a standard app (not lite)  we get a route like  $r->get('/')->to('example#welcome');   In Controller::Example class the method welcom() renders template "example/welcome.html.ep" ;
18:16 henq my question is : i cannot find this defualt behaviour in the docs. “if no template name is given, a template with the same name as the method in a directory with the same name as the controller class, under directory ‘templates’ is rendered.    Is this indeed mojo magic?
18:17 Grinnz yes: https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Guides::Rendering#Automatic-rendering
18:19 Grinnz and https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Guides::Tutorial#Route-names
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18:23 henq thx; i read those 3 times, but missed it, porbably too terse vor my brain; i find my decription more human friendly; thx again
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19:10 jberger what timezone is the channel log in?
19:10 Grinnz_ looks like UTC
19:10 Grinnz_ or maybe east of that
19:11 Grinnz_ oh, "All times shown according to UTC."
19:11 Grinnz_ lol
19:11 jberger ah ok
19:12 jberger (my message was also partially just a test to compare against my wall clock, but thanks)
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19:47 sri marcusr: <offtopic>looks like patron warrior is actually heavily favored in the midrange hunter matchup ;p http://hearthstoneplayers.com/what-we-learned-patron-warrior-1200-games-from-zalae-strifecro-sjow-dog-and-more/</offtopic>
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19:50 jberger sri: clearly its up to you, but if there isn't an active on-topic discussion, I don't mind a quick off-topic no tags needed
19:51 sri i keep saying that i don't mind them either if they don't go too far ;p
19:51 sri i've added the tags so nobody gets confused
19:51 jberger with that message I don't think there was much chance of the :-P
19:51 jberger grrr, s/the/that/
19:51 jberger :D
19:54 * sri waits for someone to state their confusion
19:54 Grinnz_ i thought hearthstone was totally on topic for mojo
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20:03 Adurah Hearthstone runs on Mojo?
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20:09 ZoffixWork Do you think it would be difficult to make Mojo::Pg report errors relative to user's code? Always seeing "Error at ... Mojo/Pg/Database.pm line 82" isn't overly helpful.
20:10 ZoffixWork It's $sth->execute; there's an issue with my SQL statement ... somewhere in my code.
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20:11 Grinnz_ it is probably because RaiseError causes DBD::Pg to use croak, which sees Mojo::Pg::Database as the caller...
20:11 Grinnz_ can't think of a simple way to remedy that offhand
20:11 ZoffixWork I think that's fixable. IIRC Test::Builder does something like that
20:11 * ZoffixWork looks at the code of one of his modules
20:12 jberger that is what @CARP_NOT is for
20:12 jberger https://metacpan.org/pod/Carp#CARP_NOT
20:12 Grinnz_ i mean, maybe you could do @DBD::Pg::CARP_NOT = ('Mojo::Pg::Database')
20:12 Grinnz_ or something to that effect
20:13 Grinnz_ but knowing DBI, you'd probably have to do it for a DBI or DBI::common, no idea...
20:13 jberger Grinnz_: why?
20:13 Grinnz_ depends which actual module the croak happens in
20:13 jberger those aren't in the stack there are they?
20:13 jberger oh
20:13 jberger I see
20:16 ZoffixWork Oh, OK, I was thinking of something else. I was thinking of error reports in tests.
20:20 ZoffixWork Can't seem to get @CARP_NOT to do anything
20:39 jberger ZoffixWork: try @DBI::CARP_NOT = ('Mojo::Pg::Database')
20:40 ZoffixWork Nope.
20:40 ZoffixWork And even if I set  $Carp::Verbose, I'm not seeing verbosity increase, so I suspect they're not even using Carp for those messages
20:40 sri if there's something DBI endorses, i'd consider a Mojo::Pg patch
20:40 Grinnz_ ZoffixWork: i'm pretty sure they are
20:40 ZoffixWork Tried downloading DBI source and grep for the error, still not finding where it's setting it
20:41 jberger sri: I think I once almost proposed a similar patch for Mojolicious and Mojolicious::Controller
20:41 jberger for when a helper dies
20:41 jberger helper croaks I should say
20:42 sri i imagine most folks use $c->helpers->foo now anyway
20:42 sri since it's so much faster
20:42 ZoffixWork Oh? I wasn't
20:43 * Grinnz_ hadnt heard of that
20:43 sri $c->foo has to use AUTOLOAD, while $c->helpers->foo is just two fast method calls
20:43 ZoffixWork Sweet
20:43 sri got added with nested helpers
20:43 Grinnz_ ZoffixWork: in DBI::connect() at least, it uses Carp::croak / Carp::carp
20:44 Grinnz_ i've never checked the other places
20:44 meredith i had no idea about that, but i'm not really sweating over helper speed yet
20:45 meredith so i'll half-forget about it and remember it later when things are slow and pat myself on the back for my success
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20:46 * sri is not a fan of messing too much with Carp
20:47 sri like giving it classes to ignore
20:47 sri gives me a headache
20:47 sri this is about as far as i usually go ;p https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojo/Util.pm#L103
20:51 Grinnz_ ZoffixWork: i am half suspecting that it's happening in the XS part of DBI
20:52 ZoffixWork I was about to say that. I see "pg_error(aTHX_ sth, PGRES_FATAL_ERROR, "PQcancel failed");" in dbdimp.c
20:52 * ZoffixWork has no clue about XS
20:52 ZoffixWork Oh well.. This was more time spent than the issue deserved :)
20:52 * ZoffixWork goes back to hacking on his code
20:54 Grinnz_ i was having fun figuring this out, but then i ran into DBI's ridiculous architecture
20:56 sri i imagine you could to RAISE_ERROR=0 locally and throw it yourself with carp
20:58 Grinnz_ unfortunately thats a bit difficult to do if you dont know where the problem is
21:00 jberger meredith++
21:01 Grinnz_ ZoffixWork: $Carp::CarpLevel = 1 like in sri's snippet could work too but you'd really want to localize that to the query() call...
21:02 Grinnz_ but you could set it just for debugging, anyway
21:03 dave isn't there a carp environment variable?
21:03 jberger oh yeah, you could Carp::Always to see the trace and find where it is carping from
21:03 Grinnz_ i guess if $Carp::Verbose didnt even work then you're probably right that it's not actually using Carp
21:04 ZoffixWork Yeah, it does nothing. I even tried shoving all modules in %INC into %Carp::Internal and that still did nothing.
21:04 Grinnz_ most likely some custom XS function using caller :/
21:05 Grinnz_ in which case the only solution is for query() to rethrow errors, which is somethhing i'm considering for Mojo::SQLite but only because it's already eval'ing the query
21:06 berov1 Grinnz_: Congratulations for Mojo::SQLite :)!
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21:59 Grinnz_ berov1: glad you like it
21:59 berov1 (Y)
22:15 cfedde I was never sure.. Is that supposed to be rude?
22:20 Grinnz_ is what?
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22:24 cfedde I need more fonts.
22:25 meredith `(Y)`?  internets suggest (Y) and (N) were thumbs-up/down on MSN Messenger
22:25 Grinnz_ it's a pidgin thing as well
22:25 cfedde I feel old.
22:27 meredith i always kept that stuff disabled because every time someone would mention a class like, FooBar::Prepostprocess, I'd get an inline :P face  ;)
22:27 Grinnz_ haha
22:28 cfedde Every time IT decides to update Lync here.  I get my defaults reset.
22:28 cfedde But then lync kinda sucks in more than a few ways.
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23:50 Adurah http://html5zombo.com/ works now, hah.

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