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IRC log for #mojo, 2015-12-31

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:46 Phil21 so since I don't know where else to ask, is there a stupid-simple Modern Perl way to to Getopts?
02:47 Phil21 just seems like a ton of boilerplate every time I want to just quick toss some arg handling into a quickie tool
02:48 mattp Phil21: moo(se)?x::options, getopt::long, getopt::long::desc
02:48 Phil21 yeah, I use getopt::long now
02:48 Phil21 writing that though is almost the length of the script :)
02:48 Phil21 in this case
02:48 mattp I usually steal from those smarter than me
02:48 Phil21 indeed
02:49 Phil21 just wondering, I've been finding others doing all sorts of clever shit lately in 2 lines of code when I've been doing 30
02:49 mattp ie, take a look at how mojo handles its opts, or cpanminus
02:49 Phil21 basically no better way than simply stuffing things blindly into $ARGV[n] and basic checking, for stupid-simple stuff
02:50 mattp well if you're talking type checks you can use MooX::Options to treat your argv options as attributes feeding into a class
02:51 Phil21 ya
02:51 Phil21 I think you've answered my question - getopt long when you need real getopt, hack if you don't
02:51 Phil21 getopt::long even
02:51 Phil21 just since I know it
02:51 Phil21 thanks!
02:52 mattp Phil21: take a look at how cpanminus separates things, its quite clean
02:52 Phil21 I will, thanks
02:53 mattp Phil21: off topic, are you this guy http://challenger.phil21.net/
02:53 mattp or is that just a coincidence :)
02:54 Phil21 I am he
02:54 Phil21 I realized I took down the loveline.phil21.net webserver the other day, need to get it back up
02:54 Phil21 migrated from one datacenter to another :)
02:55 Phil21 fun to find someone to recognizes that :)
02:55 mattp haha word! cheers. i've been leeching loveline episodes from you for like a decade
02:55 Phil21 sweet
02:55 Phil21 that's what it's there for!
02:58 Phil21 hehe, I'll try to get that VM up tonight
02:58 Phil21 I just need to add it's netblock to the router, got lazy forgot I actually had some live stuff living on that server still
02:58 Phil21 usually I get a deluge of e-mail, I guess folks have listen.pls bookmarked
02:59 Phil21 still amazes me the stream peaks at ~200 people during the day
02:59 Phil21 oh well, made my night - thanks!
03:00 mattp no worries. thanks for the streams :)
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03:23 Grinnz Phil21, Getopt::Long::Modern is basically documentation for the options I tend to use with Getopt::Long, so far I haven't written any commandline program that needed anything more really
03:24 Phil21 Grinnz: ah nice, I never knew of ::Modern
03:24 Phil21 this looks like a decent fit
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15:38 MartinR I am just curious, do you guys use foreign keys in your databases to constrain data nicely ?
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15:39 osfabibisi MartinR: yes, of course
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15:48 MartinR osfa bibisi, thanks for opinion. In past I was avoiding any unnecessary constraints and did everything in software...
15:49 sue define 'unnecessary'
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15:50 bpmedley MartinR : I use as many constraints as possible, so yes..
15:51 sue it's generally easier to set up your schemas so that they are as self-regulating in terms of data integrity as possible
15:51 sue constraints are a big part of that
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15:52 pink_mist MartinR: having to do it in software is in general much much more error prone and slower than making the database do it for you
15:52 pink_mist at least ime
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15:55 MartinR yeah, thanks for opinions ;)
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16:04 jberger MartinR: I'd even say further that having a FK defined makes it easier for future readers to understand your database layout
16:05 jberger and always remember that that future reader might be you :P
16:07 MartinR haha, very true ;)
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16:48 osfameron it also makes it easier for the *software* to know what to do
16:49 osfameron e.g. DBIx::Class can introspect the FKs you already have defined in the database
16:49 osfameron and make things more *convenient* for you
16:49 osfameron (as well as faster and more correct)
16:49 osfameron it's almost like there isn't a downside :D
16:51 MartinR osfameronm, there is small price but for sure more advantages ;)
16:52 osfameron you have to think a little more upfront perhaps?  but basically a very minimal cost
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16:54 MartinR it's not about thinking while designing db, it's about extra const that db must spent in checking these constraints
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16:55 MartinR but it's negligible there's so much adventages - most of them we already pointed out
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16:58 osfameron ah ok.  don't forget though that the constraints can *speed up* a lot of things too - because they give hints to the optimizer
16:58 osfameron often they only slow down insertion
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16:58 MartinR I think so too
16:58 osfameron so there are occasional cases where you might need to e.g. drop a constraint, insert, then rebuild, iirc
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19:32 tempire Hmm
19:39 MartinR yeah, New Year's Eve ;)
19:40 jberger tempire: o/
19:40 tempire \o
19:45 sri happy new year!
19:46 jberger still the old year here /o\
19:47 * sri is rolling on the floor laughing at ruby programmers telling everyone websockets are bad because ruby is bad at async :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10811838
19:50 jberger ummmmm, whaaaaa?
20:07 pink_mist lol
20:07 pink_mist and happy new year =)
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20:40 tempire I can't get Net::SSLeay compiled on el capitan
20:45 jberger do you have a (compatible) version of ssl lib?
20:45 jberger mac's default one kinda sucks btw
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20:48 tempire Ah, I needed CCFLAGS to specify the header dir
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20:56 jberger le sigh
20:56 jberger that's bad it should figure that out
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21:10 Phil21 sri: eh, I read that mostly as "stupid developers shouldn't do stupid things" but yeah
21:10 Phil21 https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=jamie+pechak+registry+baby
21:10 Phil21 er, wrong paste damnit
21:11 Phil21 If an API allows hundreds of different connections concurrent access to the database, bad stuff will happen.
21:11 Phil21 you'd be amazed at the things like that I've found in the wild (from an ops standpoint, at a large managed services webhosting company)
21:11 Phil21 even from folks that should know better
21:12 Phil21 such as a large network that shall remain unamed who's real time bandwidth stats actually starts up snmp pollers just for that session to talk to switches rapidly :)
21:12 Phil21 10 people logged in watching same ports?  10 pollers running
21:12 Phil21 lots of stuff like that very few (in my experience) developers ever pay attention to
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21:54 haarg jberger: el capitan doesn't include openssl headers
21:55 haarg so you pretty much have to install openssl from elsewhere, so needing to specify the header dir is going to be required in many cases
22:11 jberger lame
22:17 lluad el cap has it's own non-openssl ssl implementation. Which isn't such a bad idea, but it does add another step to openssl-requiring apps.
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22:18 good_news_everyon [mojo] jberger force-pushed channel_jberger_4 from d9b36c6 to 5b9c766: http://git.io/vEkxa
22:18 good_news_everyon mojo/channel_jberger_4 3655a80 Joel Berger: port to Channel object for UserAgent...
22:18 good_news_everyon mojo/channel_jberger_4 5b9c766 Joel Berger: move client_read methods to respective channel classes
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22:18 lluad PITA, though.
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22:31 haarg openssl has been deprecated in os x for a while, but they finally dropped the headers
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