The web in a box - a next generation web framework for the Perl programming language

IRC log for #mojo, 2016-01-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:43 vicash sri: thanks. sorry couldn't help earlier as was away from desk.
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02:35 jberger I wish letsencypt wasn't so intrusive
02:36 jberger even the acme protocol isn't nothing
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03:05 genio Intrusive, how?
03:05 genio I've yet to use it.
03:08 genio Why does the acme-spec github repo that's used only for small amounts of documentation and bug tracking need TravisCI?
03:12 jberger well the official client is very intrusive
03:12 jberger it writes to things it shouldn't
03:14 jberger but even the protocol is a little intrusive from a webserver perspective
03:14 jberger I understand it needs to verify that you control the domain but still
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03:20 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzoYT
03:20 good_news_everyon mojo/master f8c657a Sebastian Riedel: from now on we call Mojo a web development toolkit
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03:22 sri maybe that will make more sense to the folks who want to avoid using a "web framework" in their Mojo::DOM apps
03:23 jberger \o/
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03:33 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzoY9
03:33 good_news_everyon mojo/master 134f98d Sebastian Riedel: highlight a few words
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03:42 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzoYx
03:42 good_news_everyon mojo/master 22543c9 Sebastian Riedel: capitalize correctly
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05:03 sri so, i guess we'll now differentiate between framework apps and toolkit apps
05:04 sri basically, if your app doesn't say "use Mojo::Base 'Mojolicious';" or "use Mojolicious::Lite;", it's a toolkit app
05:05 jberger there are even a few exceptions to that, but for the most part yeah
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05:10 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzoGs
05:10 good_news_everyon mojo/master 300f140 Sebastian Riedel: mention some of the most commonly used tools
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05:14 sri are there?
05:14 sri i mean, if you're making a plugin or command, there will be a Mojolicious instance somewhere too
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05:19 jberger I mean Mojolicious->new
05:19 jberger the rare times you do that
05:20 sri allright, lets say it's a framework app if you have a Mojolicious instance somehwere ;p
05:21 jberger that's fair
05:21 sri i suppose with $ua->server->app you might have a framework app in a toolkit app -.-
05:23 jberger hmmm
05:24 jberger I think for the most part, it will be obvious which you are doing
05:28 sri the answer to your question earlier actually convinced me that we need a terminology change :) http://blogs.perl.org/users/polettix/2016/01/pure-perl-xml.html#comment-1667301
05:32 jberger its been a battle I've been trying to fight for years
05:32 jberger :P
05:45 jberger it really is too bad that people don't realize how incredibly small Mojolicious is even **relative to Mojo::**
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05:51 jberger sri: any response to "I'd be interested in any discussion about "practicality" vs "correctness" as the comment from Aristotle seemed to imply."
05:53 jberger my immediate response would be that "its a tag-soup style parser so its going to have the "correctness" of that style"
05:58 jberger oh I've just had a fun idea
05:59 jberger a letsencrypt plugin which adds both the challenge route handler and a command to run the procedural bits
05:59 jberger but here's the fun part
06:00 jberger the command embeds a mercury app on a known port, when the route handler gets a request it tries to websocket to the mercury port to see what it should reply with
06:00 jberger boom
06:00 jberger honestly it wouldn't even need to be a mercury app
06:01 jberger just any old websocket would do
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07:52 batman jberger: seen https://metacpan.org/pod/Toadfarm::Plugin::Letsencrypt ?
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07:54 batman not sure why it's a toadfarm plugin instead of a plain mojo plugin...
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10:24 ribasushi jberger: it's never about "small" in terms of "kilobytes"
10:24 ribasushi it's about "overlapping concerns"
10:24 ribasushi if one needs to parse XML
10:25 ribasushi it's is crazy to pull in a web framework, because there are more avenues for the parser to change its behavior to satisfy evolving demands of the framework
10:25 ribasushi when all I need is to parse XML
10:25 ribasushi I want something that will work without change for *at least* a decade
10:25 ribasushi a web framework is the worst decision given these constraints, even if it didn't have the "move fast and break stuff" policy of Mojo
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15:29 sri ribasushi: that's silly, there could be a commercial LTS version of mojolicious, and then you'd suddenly get guarantees for the entire toolkit
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15:34 sri talking about backwards compatibility, what is this? Oo https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/901
15:34 sri hahaha
15:35 sri that's the optimization haarg made
15:35 sri haarg: so much for faster json i suppose ;p
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15:50 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzo5P
15:50 good_news_everyon mojo/master d76e408 Sebastian Riedel: fix use of deprecated Perl 5.23.6 feature in Mojo::JSON
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15:52 sri oh well
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15:54 sri Mojo::JSON is now a little slower again
16:20 ribasushi sri: commercial guarantees for OSS is called "freemium"
16:20 ribasushi I don't mind someone working with that, but I do not consider it personally a sensible choice
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16:23 jberger ribasushi: we've discussed this at length, your commitment to infinite backwards compatibility is laudable but impractical for most volunteer projects
16:23 ribasushi jberger: the jury is still our on this one
16:24 ribasushi I just take issue with being labeled "silly"
16:25 jberger as I read it, you werem
16:25 jberger weren't labelled silly, your comment was
16:25 jberger I wouldn't have said silly btw, I would have said "easily mitigated"
16:26 jberger with things like Carton
16:26 jberger but we've had that out before too
16:26 ribasushi sorry - I take issue with the comment "pulling in a web framework to parse XML is irresponsible" being labeled as silly
16:26 ribasushi anyway ;)
16:27 jberger you didn't say "irresponsible" before, and actually I think I would have responded to that word stronger
16:29 ribasushi I said something like that: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-01-24#i_11932388
16:30 ribasushi but you are right - we've had this argument a lot previously, no need to re-re-rehash
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17:52 haarg sri: https://gist.github.com/haarg/7cb411a5c4c3ab053d07
17:53 haarg yet another try at this
17:54 haarg with an empty string, it stops before it encounters any of the characters in the string it's checking, so it will never hit that deprecation
17:54 haarg but it does give a numeric warning when used on numbers, so that needs to be silenced
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18:04 sri haarg: think we'll stick with the one using B for now, at least until JSON::PP switches to something else
18:04 sri until then we have B loaded anyway, because of JSON::PP::Boolean
18:08 haarg reasonable.  if i do get it changed in JSON::PP, i'll ping you.
18:08 sri appreciated
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20:12 jberger zomg, why have both JWT and JWS?!
20:12 jberger I hate everything
20:17 jberger or wait, maybe JWT isa JWS
20:29 marcus openid connect uses jwt
20:29 marcus he claims in a JWT are encoded as a JSON object that is used as the payload of a JSON Web Signature (JWS
20:35 jberger the JWS working draft has a JWT as an example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-signature-41#section-3.3
20:36 jberger so JWT is a JWS where the payload is JSON
21:16 jberger argh, but even though that's true, the ACME protocol requires the "flattened JWS serialization"
21:16 jberger I hate everything again
21:17 preaction yay programming!
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21:59 jberger yay, successful ACME new-reg request!
22:00 jberger I'm more-or-less porting https://github.com/diafygi/acme-tiny/blob/master/acme_tiny.py
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22:01 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzKCR
22:01 good_news_everyon mojo/master 332ccaf Sebastian Riedel: no need to mention the version
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22:01 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v6.42 at 71824e2: https://git.io/vzKCB
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22:02 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vzKCz
22:02 good_news_everyon mojo/master d68a6c8 Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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