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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-02-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Grinnz_ mitya: please paste your code to a paste site so we know what you are doing
00:08 mitya Grinnz_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/14872946/
00:10 chansen Don't make a copy, pass $pg->db->query('insert into test (var) values(?)', $DBD::Pg::DBDPG_DEFAULT);
00:11 pink_mist 0_o would that make a difference?
00:12 chansen Depends on the XS code
00:12 pink_mist oh :X
00:13 mitya chansen, the same error
00:15 mitya This is so easy case: insert default value in postgres, realy no solution for this? with our without DBD::Pg::DBDPG_DEFAULT
00:16 pink_mist ->query('insert into test (var) values(DEFAULT)')?
00:17 chansen pink_mist: $DBDPG_DEFAULT is a DBD sentinel
00:18 mitya pink_mist, this will work of cource, but I need placeholders
00:18 pink_mist chansen: "Setting the bind_value to $DBDPG_DEFAULT is equivalent to sending the literal string 'DEFAULT' to the backend."
00:19 pink_mist mitya: well that wasn't part of your original question. then I don't have a good answer.
00:20 chansen Sorry, I guess I was one step ahead ;)
00:20 sri mitya: if $DBDPG_DEFAULT works with plain DBD::Pg, it should work with Mojo::Pg
00:21 sri we just pass along the values to $sth->execute(...)
00:21 pink_mist well, you check them for jsony behaviour
00:21 sri yea, which does nothing for objects
00:22 mitya sri, is there any solution without DBDPG_DEFAULT to insert default value via placeholder?
00:23 sri so, yea, i can confirm that $DBDPG_DEFAULT does not work
00:23 sri neither with DBD::Pg nor with Mojo::Pg
00:24 sri mitya: did you actually try it with raw DBD::Pg?
00:24 mitya no, i don't
00:25 sri you might have found a DBD::Pg bug
00:25 chansen sri: https://github.com/bucardo/dbdpg/blob/master/t/04misc.t#L385
00:27 pink_mist I must be misunderstanding what that test does; why is line 393 there?
00:28 sri yea, where does it actually check the inserted value?
00:28 sri in my tests it just stringifies to "DBD::Pg::DefaultValue=HASH(0x7fd669131d20)'"
00:29 sri that may be valid in the test table
00:29 Grinnz_ i'm also getting the same
00:30 Grinnz_ https://github.com/bucardo/dbdpg/blob/master/t/dbdpg_test_setup.pl#L690
00:30 Grinnz_ its just a varchar
00:30 chansen pink_mist, sri: Yeah that's strange! I only grep the the tests
00:30 Grinnz_ they never test the value it sets
00:30 sri mitya: you might want to report that against DBD::Pg :)
00:31 mitya i have never report bugs before this...
00:31 mitya can anybody help me? =)
00:32 sri how exciting
00:32 sri try to mention as many details as possible
00:32 chansen mitya: Perhaps you could tell us more about your schema and the default value? I have never found a need for $DBDPG_DEFAULT
00:32 pink_mist basically you send an email to bug-DBD-Pg [at] rt.cpan.org describing the bug as well as possible
00:33 preaction mitya: go to http://metacpan.org/pod/DBD::Pg look on the right side for "Issues", that should take you to the official issue tracker
00:34 Grinnz_ this is exhibiting the same error for me: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/318244/45454602/
00:34 Grinnz_ oops, should be use DBI; whatever :)
00:34 Grinnz_ need DBD::Pg for the global
00:35 sri hehe, that also means mitya is prolly the first trying to actually use $DBDPG_DEFAULT in a long time
00:36 Grinnz_ seems so, no bugs even mentioning default
00:36 Grinnz_ on rt or github
00:37 mitya no one inserting defaults in tables? oh my god.. :D
00:39 pink_mist I think I simply don't include the column in the query if I want to use a default
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00:40 chansen mitya: Oh my god, are we dealing with a noob or troll? Of course we are, but it's controlled on RDBM level not client!
00:40 mitya chansen, show example please
00:41 chansen Show us your RDBM scheme
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00:42 Grinnz_ hmm strange, if i add a test checking the value of the default in that DBD::Pg test it appears to pass
00:44 mitya chansen, there is a simple table: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14872946/ I do no know the default value, it is defined only in database. I need insert a value, and if it is null, then default
00:45 chansen mitya: is this a joke?
00:46 pink_mist chansen?
00:47 chansen "var integer not null default 0", pass NULL!
00:47 mitya this is not a joke, this is a problem in a front of me.
00:47 mitya chansen, this is NOT mysql
00:48 mitya chansen, you are noob and a troll.
00:49 Grinnz_ guys, chill
00:50 orev in cases like this, it's usually that one person is being lazy and is not educating themself enough and wanting the other person to do their work for them
00:50 Grinnz_ I've determined the issue occurs with a non-string column, $DBDPG_DEFAULT works with a string column
00:50 Grinnz_ for a numeric column it bails out before the object gets resolved correctly, it seems
00:53 Grinnz_ actually wait...
00:54 Grinnz_ otherway around, my test is working for numerics now o_0
00:55 mitya Grinnz_, show your code please
00:56 Grinnz_ http://paste.fedoraproject.org/318246/45454736/
00:59 mitya Grinnz_, why are you use $1 as placeholder?
00:59 Grinnz_ just convention, same result with ?
01:01 mitya Grinnz_, can you describe, why your example works, but my don't?
01:02 Grinnz_ I can't see why, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference (I also tried getting DBDPG_DEFAULT the same way as your script)
01:03 Grinnz_ I also don't know why the test works for a string column in DBD::Pg's test file but not in my script
01:03 Grinnz_ however no more time to debug this now, have to go... good luck
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01:49 TomWork hi, beginner's question: if I want to share a subroutine I have in a controller with other controller to avoid code redundancy, what's the best approach?
01:50 chansen I went out for a smoke and met my GF, one hour later I find that I was called a noob (actually makes me feel young again ;)
01:50 chansen mitya: obviously I meant undef and not NULL!!
01:51 mitya chansen, this trick works only on MySQL
01:53 mitya in the end we have strange story: all perl programmers, using DBD:Pg duplicates defaults of their table fields both on database schema and a perl code.
01:59 chansen I don't professionally use PostgreSQL, I work with Oracle 11, SQL Server
02:03 chansen PostgreSQL has always tended to be a Oracle clone
02:03 meredith I have a strong preference for omitting fields from an insert if they're supposed to use the default, but if it were only column I'd probably skip placeholders and use the DEFAULT keyword in the SQL literal.
02:03 meredith s/were only/were the only/
02:04 meredith (I'm not sure when I'd need to do that though.)
02:04 chansen You also have CONSTRAINT clauses for further checks
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02:07 mitya meredith, mitting fields is a good choice, but need a "assembly" sql query. in my current task, I can't do this, and must defile all fields in insert query
02:08 mitya s/mitting/omitting/
02:10 chansen It seems you cannot accomplish what you want using DBD::Pg, you have two choices: 1) Either provide a patch for expected behavior to DBD::Pg 2) If that is out of you skill set, use a workaround
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02:26 mitya > PostgreSQL has always tended to be a Oracle clone
02:27 mitya you are realy troll and noob ;)
02:28 TomWork what's the best way to share subroutines between controllers?
02:28 mitya TomWork. use helpers, luke
02:28 preaction helpers perhaps?
02:29 TomWork the sub is for instance opening a CSV
02:29 TomWork and then returning a hash
02:29 TomWork I have different controllers needing the same code, for the moment the sub is in each controller which is a bit messy I find
02:29 preaction a utility class then?
02:30 TomWork by that you mean a 'package'?
02:30 TomWork or a 'plugin' or a 'helper'
02:31 preaction a package, optionally using Exporter, like Mojo::Util
02:32 TomWork ok, thanks preaction, I will try to understand on my own from here
02:32 Grinnz helpers could be loaded from plugins, also
02:32 preaction a helper is put on the context object, so if you need a context object to do your work, then it's a helper, or if you want it automatically available to everything that has a context object
02:32 Grinnz up to you how to organize it
02:32 preaction but it sounds like this is just "read a file, return a hash", so it doesn't seem to need a context
02:33 TomWork yeah that's why I struggled to see how helpers or plugins would help me with that
02:33 TomWork thanks for the explanation
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02:33 Grinnz in that case a helper would be more for the "automatically available" part, a util module would be fine too
02:36 meredith mitya, $DBDPG_DEFAULT is working for me when i use the $1 placeholder style on an int column, but not the ? style.
02:41 mitya does not work for me. what is your dbd::pg version? my is 3.4.2 (debian jessy)
02:42 meredith looks like 3.5.3 here. i just used carton to pull together a test
02:45 meredith (so it did newest everything)
02:48 mitya this is a good solution, thank you. I'm going to backport latest dbd::pg and i hope this solve the problem.
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03:46 asarch One stupid off-topic question: I've been reading that, in order to convert XHTML content into PDF, you need CSS to define the page composition for the PDF style. Is this CSS specification the same for web pages?
03:47 asarch (http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs)
03:47 asarch ?
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03:51 jberger I'm sure that all depends on your pdf generation tool
03:52 jberger At my previous job we used wkhtmltopdf
03:52 jberger Which is basically just a headless web browser
03:53 asarch Is there any module in Perl for that?
03:53 jberger Several, but they all just wrap the shell call
03:53 asarch Oh :-(
03:54 jberger Meh, it gets the job done
03:54 jberger You could look at phantom too
03:54 asarch I found this document: http://antennahouse.com/CSSInfo/CSS-Page-Tutorial-en.pdf
03:54 jberger I don't know if it has pdf out but it has some graphical rendering
03:54 asarch Thank you jberger
03:54 asarch Thank you very much :-)
03:56 jberger The css stuff is likely just a way to designate how the page should be in print vs screen modes
03:57 jberger I can't get that document to open, but I know there is such a mechanism in css
03:58 asarch You mean Phantom in PhantomJS, right?
04:08 preaction yes
04:09 asarch Thank you very much :-)
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08:54 ashimema can one set the backoff on a per queue basis in minion? (Or am I thinking about it in the wrong way)
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10:06 sri no
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10:34 ashimema k.. thanks
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10:34 binary I'd like to use Mojo::UserAgent to get web pages, but use HTML::TreeBuilder::LibXML to parse the HTML since it'll be a lot faster. Does Mojo::UserAgent actually parse the data automatically, or only if I try to access $tx->res->dom?
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10:59 pink_mist most things in Mojo are lazy, so only happen if you try to use them
11:02 pink_mist not sure if that's the case here though
11:02 pink_mist so I guess disregard me :/
11:02 batman binary: the data is parsed when you call dom(). (not automatically)
11:02 batman binary: https://metacpan.org/source/SRI/Mojolicious-6.43/lib/Mojo/Message.pm#L66
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11:56 binary Perfect, thanks, so I can just pull the raw html and parse it with LibXML
12:03 sri this problem is more interesting than it seems https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/ghO7bDgjmpQ
12:07 sri you can easily replicate the problem with a one-liner
12:07 sri MOJO_LOG_LEVEL=debug perl -Mojo -E 'a(sub { $_->render(text => $_->ua->get("mojolicious.org")->res->code) })->start' get /
12:10 sri i suppose the get command should really be using a new user agent
12:11 nic Yeah, the usual remedy of using your own ua works fine
12:14 nic I'd like the convenience of 'get' doing that for me.  I guess the price might be some tests taking more time
12:14 sri Grinnz made us do that it seems
12:15 sri he wanted to subclass the get command
12:16 nic It's gradually becoming clear he's in the pay of malevolent govt agencies
12:16 nic I bet he codes in javascript too
12:17 * nic has released an Angular2 module, but it's all just a smokescreen
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12:22 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vg3Mx
12:22 good_news_everyon mojo/master 7285514 Sebastian Riedel: the get command needs to use a new user agent or applications would be unable to use theirs
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13:25 nic perl -MMojo::Base=strict -Mojo -E'a(sub { $_->render(text => "Ah\n") })->start' routes
13:25 nic Is there a way to assign that route a name?
13:29 nic got it
13:30 nic perl -MMojo::Base=strict -Mojo -E'a("/" => {text => "Ah\n"} => "Wow")->start' routes
13:30 nic not quite the same route, but that's what I wanted
13:55 nic perl -MMojo::Base=strict -Mojo -E'a("a/b" => {text => "b_lit\n"} => "a/b_lit"); a("a/:b" => {b => "optional", text => "b_opt\n"} => "a/b")->start' eval 'say app->url_for("a/b")'
13:57 nic I was concerned that I might hit problems having route names that look like URLs, but it seems all is fine as long as the names never begin with '/' (a rule I was already following)
13:58 jberger IIRC that is explicitly required
13:58 jberger Pretty sure that's how url_for does it's thing
13:58 nic yes, that's what I was checking
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13:59 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vg3jE
13:59 good_news_everyon mojo/master dc02fe4 Sebastian Riedel: show names too
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14:02 nic If you do 'routes' cmd on that oneliner it looks like an evil recruitment question ;)
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14:16 t4nk565 Hello. Is there a way to disable verification of certificates while using Mojo::UserAgent so that one can avoid getting such errors -> SSL connect attempt failed because of handshake problems
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15:06 jberger nic: I'm pretty sure that ojo enables Mojo::Base -strict
15:07 jberger further the - is important, so you are actually causing it to add "strict" to @main::ISA
15:07 jberger :-P
15:09 jberger t4nk565: https://metacpan.org/pod/IO::Socket::SSL#IO::Socket::SSL::set_args_filter_hack-code-use_defaults
15:10 jberger t4nk565: then again, unless you know WHY the SSL connection is bad, ignoring it is a security risk
15:57 sri we don't even check the peer cert if there is no ca configured
15:57 sri he does something weird
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16:33 kes please help. Should 'expires' always present in session?
16:36 jberger kes: I haven't tried but I'd assume its there unless set to zero: http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Sessions#default_expiration
16:37 jberger unless **expiriation** is set to zero
16:38 kes I have a problem
16:38 kes when the expiration is not zero and I have no 'expires' in the session
16:38 kes the session does not started at all
16:38 kes return if !(my $expires = delete $session->{expires}) && $expiration;
16:38 kes http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Sessions.txt
16:39 jberger how would that happen?
16:40 jberger in the "store" method, it generates expires for you
16:40 kes not always
16:41 kes unless $self->default_expiration
16:41 kes or expiration = 0
16:42 jberger I don't see "unless $self->default_expiration"
16:42 jberger https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojolicious/Sessions.pm
16:42 jberger can you make a minimal example?
16:42 * jberger is at $work
16:43 kes I will create testcase.
16:59 ashimema am i right in thinking if I want to call a minion worker via start-stop-daemon on debian I'll need to do it with the --background param to get it backgrounded?
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17:01 * ashimema is still pretty 'wet behind the ears' when it comes to daemonizing ;)
17:19 kes http://paste.scsys.co.uk/505096
17:22 jberger kes, I'm sorry but I still don't understand the problem
17:22 jberger what would you LIKE it to do?
17:23 jberger and btw, that is a description of what is occurring but it doesn't tell me what you wanted to happen, nor is it a minimal example nor a test case
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17:50 sri haha, the phoenix vs rails war is heating up
17:51 sri https://twitter.com/dhh/status/695286739724812289
18:12 Grinnz http://33.media.tumblr.com/8333278fbcc33951eff4458cc53231e4/tumblr_inline_n5g2xqR9Ht1s8k5o4.gif
18:34 jberger ruby has a GIL? (GVML?)
18:35 jberger "And common platforms like Node.js/EventMachine/Twisted are not a solution to this problem exactly because they only cover the IO side while still forcing you to write code in a convoluted callback style way."
18:36 genio heh
18:38 sri he's not wrong
18:38 sri the erlangvm is very different
18:38 genio "which may load to more complex code and a worst user experience due to latency"   If I had a dollar for every time someone used "worst" when they meant "worse"
18:39 Grinnz genio, ive heard the other way around too
18:39 jberger yeah, concurrent languages are cool
18:39 preaction i don't know who the audience for that article is. if you're already using rails, you're not going to just pack it all up and switch to phoenix because ActionCable isn't fast enough. you're going to roll your own like everyone else does
18:39 jberger but its pretty disingenuous to paint event-based code as piles of callback hell
18:40 jberger there are ways to manage that
18:40 sri with everything being immutable other things get tedious though
18:40 jberger its like saying OO in perl sucks
18:40 jberger or even, is non-existent
18:41 jberger sure callback hell sucks but don't do that
18:44 genio Well, promises exist.  You can get out of callback hell somewhat that way if you wish.
18:45 jberger genio: that (and delays) is what I mean
18:45 jberger <3 delays
18:46 jberger I know they aren't going to win the war, but they are so easy to work with once you grok them
18:50 Grinnz tbh I found the same about Futures, once I figured out then() and done/fail/cancel and ignored the entire rest of the API :P
18:51 Grinnz (i look up things like wait_all and such for occasional things...)
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18:57 jberger just to plug the delays api, there are really so few primatives you don't need to worry about a large api
19:00 sri promises only work when they are used by all the libraries you use
19:00 sri otherwise flow control libraries (like Mojo::IOLoop::Delay) are much nicer
19:01 jberger oh yeah, that's the other part, I've found it very hard to use Futures when the library presents a continuation-passing api
19:06 sri for the record, i still specifically hate the module Future
19:08 jberger hehe, I think the Contents section on metacpan has more lines than Mojo::IOLoop::Delay :-P
19:09 jberger for Future.pm ^^
19:22 ribasushi sri: do you have specifics?
19:23 ribasushi I don't have a horse in the race - I am just curious
19:24 sri ribasushi: it's not promises/a+ compatible
19:25 ribasushi so you dislike it from a "precious snowflake of an API" standpoint, not on deeper architectural grounds?
19:25 ribasushi (which is a valid criticism mind)
19:25 sri there's more to it, promises/a+ implementations tend to be compatible with each other
19:25 sri you can combine anything then-able usually
19:26 sri Future is a closed system
19:26 ribasushi I see
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19:41 sri batman, tempire, jberger: you dropped out of #mojo-core again
19:42 jberger grrrr
19:42 sri that channel is getting a bit useless with everyone dropping all the time :S
19:42 * jberger waits for convos to add auto nickserv
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20:14 sri oh, batman was missing here too :o
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21:05 batman it's pretty annoying... i *think* docker shuts down eth0 on my server from time-to-time
21:05 batman coul be a coincident though
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21:32 sri mitya: please be nice in the future http://code-of-conduct.mojolicious.org
21:35 jberger chansen: same for you, please don't call someone a noob or troll
21:35 vicash hello. when one starts a minion worker, does the mojo app's startup() function get invoked ? Just want to make sure that in the add_task() I can access helpers added in startup() using $app.
21:35 jberger if you suspect someone of intentionally trolling please seek one of us
21:35 jberger vicash: yes, that's actually a large part of the reason that any of this works
21:36 jberger its actually the startup that defines the tasks (in most cases)
21:37 jberger (and probably always should be actually, I can't think of any case where a task would be added elsewhere that would work)
21:37 vicash ok cool i suspected that. Is there a way for me to detect if startup() is being invoked by a Minion::Worker object as opposed to say Morbo ? I just am trying to prevent Pg migrations to not occur if a worker is started up.
21:37 jberger there are a few tricks you can play but generally no I don't think there's any way to know
21:38 sri oh, a git tutorial with xkcd and memes? sign me up! http://www.learnenough.com/git-tutorial
21:38 vicash ok no problem.
21:40 pink_mist jberger: chansen did not call anyone a noob or troll that I noticed
21:40 jberger IIRC that was what caused the retort
21:40 * jberger scrolls back
21:41 jberger http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-02-04#i_11986085
21:41 pink_mist oh, you're right ... I guess I missed that
21:41 pink_mist my bad
21:41 jberger I didn't say anything at the time because Grinnz commented on them to chill
21:42 jberger which they mostly did
21:42 sri i just saw it in the backlog
21:43 lb so unambitious
21:43 * lb tends to go for noob AND troll
21:44 * lb is also terrible at both :(
21:44 jberger lets just not do either :-P
21:45 CandyAngel I'm a n00b troll!
21:45 jberger CandyAngel excepted
21:45 CandyAngel \o/
21:45 lb how dare you
21:45 * jberger throws a snowball at lb
21:45 jberger or would, if there were any snow left
21:46 lb take that, "global warming"
21:46 lb wait
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22:50 meredith a little late but while we're retrospecting, "is this a joke?" is never a cool thing to say when someone posts code
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22:58 sri indeed
23:11 CandyAngel Sounds like something sri would say to me (and probably rightly so :P)
23:12 jberger No that's a bad tone to strike
23:12 jberger Assume good faith
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23:13 CandyAngel I think my code has improved since I started using Mojolicious though, which is good
23:13 CandyAngel Mhm, as I would assume such a comment was made in good faith
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23:17 CandyAngel Like.. there are some people who talk to me in a harsh tone, but it's also obvious they want me to do better.. because they are talking to me, rather than just ignoring me
23:20 jberger Maybe, but I don't think the harsh tone would be necessary to do so
23:20 Grinnz_ CandyAngel: you can also want them to do better, at their tone in talking to you ... how many levels deep can we go?
23:20 CandyAngel That's fine
23:20 CandyAngel Like
23:21 CandyAngel Say sri did say something harsh to me and I didn't have a problem with it
23:22 sri i normally wouldn't do that intentionally
23:22 CandyAngel I'd have a problem with him being punished on my behalf just because someone else didn't like it. I understand why that happens (if it is against your code and you don't want it to be seen being done) though
23:22 jberger CandyAngel: I can even disagree with that
23:23 sri and i hope someone would tell me
23:23 sri english is not my native language
23:23 CandyAngel Wait.. what? It isn't?
23:23 jberger Because you aren't offended it's ok for you, but someone who is more shy/nervous/afraid sees it they may never participate
23:23 jberger sri is German
23:24 CandyAngel Mhm, that's why I understand why it is done "on my behalf"
23:24 Grinnz_ CandyAngel: i would say it's more "for the benefit of the channel" than "on your behalf"
23:24 CandyAngel True
23:24 jberger Grinnz_++
23:24 jberger "The dark users" as I call them
23:24 CandyAngel sri: I would tell you if I thought you were going too far
23:25 jberger I've been meaning to write an style on optimizing for the dark users
23:25 jberger Gahhh auto correct
23:25 jberger Article ne style
23:26 CandyAngel I guess I'd just prefer to be called an idiot if I'm being an idiot, rather than not be told because someone is worried they can't word it so it doesn't get them punished
23:26 CandyAngel If that makes sense?
23:26 jberger \o/ my stickers finally arrived!
23:26 CandyAngel Yay ^_^
23:27 Grinnz_ it does, but it's a tough line to balance on when you're not just talking amongst a few friends
23:27 CandyAngel yeah..
23:27 jberger And it's publicly logged too, so even future users may see it and not understand friendly context
23:28 jberger It's a tough one
23:28 jberger And we aren't always going to get it exactly right
23:28 CandyAngel Basically, if I'm doing something stupid, tell me in PM :P
23:28 jberger But we can try
23:28 jberger Ave even then be nice :p
23:28 jberger Blunt/honest can still be nibs
23:29 jberger Nice
23:29 * jberger gives up
23:29 CandyAngel Aw
23:30 Grinnz_ nibs lol
23:30 Grinnz_ how is that even in autocorrect
23:30 CandyAngel Pencil nib?
23:32 CandyAngel Honestly though, I had no idea sri was German. It's so weird how I know so many people who aren't native english that speak/type English better than native English speakers -.-
23:33 jberger batman and marcus are Norwegian
23:34 jberger I'm from Chicago so I have that funny sharp A
23:34 jberger Chicaaaaago
23:35 sri sometimes the language barrier can be pretty tough, like when i kept saying offensive things to tempire in norway :S
23:36 jberger Did you?
23:36 jberger I thought you were quite pleasant
23:40 CandyAngel Yeah, it would be nice if people could understand exactly what the other person intended
23:40 Grinnz_ just need direct mind communication for that
23:41 CandyAngel And I know some people take this as in insult (yeah..), but you do speak very good english :P
23:41 mitya Hey guys, i realy sorry for harsh talk, and i will try to be more civil programmer :)
23:41 CandyAngel mitya: using 'undef $var' is extremely harsh, so don't do that
23:42 Grinnz_ lol
23:43 jberger mitya++

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