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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-03-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:54 FatalNIX I guess
00:55 FatalNIX I guess I just don't quite understand the concept of ForkCall in Mojo::IOLoop
00:56 FatalNIX I basically just did something silly like this http://hastebin.com/suhajuqege.pl. run is a function that executes cycles of Acme::6502 forever.
00:57 FatalNIX but I don't think it is intended to be used that way
01:17 jberger FatalNIX: isn't that a forkbomb?
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01:17 jberger I mean, calling run forks
01:17 jberger oh but you don't get the object in the child
01:17 jberger so it errors out, but you don't have a callback, so it gets ignored
01:18 jberger but otherwise it WOULD be a fork bomb
01:18 * jberger is now officially glad he doesn't pass the object to the child fork's subref
01:24 jberger Oh run is your own thing
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01:28 jeck This the right channel to ask questions in? Or is there one dedicated specifically for that?
01:28 pink_mist so long as they're mojo questions, it's the right place
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01:34 jeck awesome, I'm having a little a little trouble with param on a select_field when the value is specified. param range => $selected seems to work with select_field range => ['whatever', 'whatever1'], but when using select_field range => [['whatever' => 'value'], ['whatever2' => 'value2']] it no longer works.
01:35 jeck I'm not really sure what param is expecting in that situation?
01:49 jeck ahh, it's selecting based on values, I'm an idiot.
01:49 sri oalders: honestly, i don't actually understand your pretend outrage
01:49 sri oalders: that issue is the perfect example for why these kinds of issues need to be forced
01:50 sri cpanratings has been dead for 4 years
01:50 sri what makes you believe that will change now?
01:52 sri there's maybe 3 people that know how to use Combust
01:52 sri a framework that's not even on cpan
01:54 sri actually a mod_perl framework
01:54 sri who can even install mod_perl anymore these days?
01:57 mspo I have it installed
01:57 mspo why not?
01:57 sri lol... shooooo!
01:57 mspo is mod_proxy really faster?
01:58 sri you're making me look bad now
01:59 sri mod_perl as never good for deploying web apps
01:59 mspo why not?
01:59 sri it was a fine idea for hacking into apache internals to build different kinds of servers
01:59 sri but your web app does not belong in apache processes
02:00 mspo mod_php is still pretty damned popular :)
02:01 preaction because mod_php is not like mod_perl
02:01 sri not the same at all
02:02 mspo it embeds your app into the apache proc
02:02 mspo just doesn't offer as much "write a module inline" stuff
02:02 mattp sri: do you think a fixed cpanratings has value
02:02 sri it embeds a persistent perl interpreter in the apache worker process and exposes countless apache apis
02:02 sri mod_perl is a way to write apache modules in perl
02:03 sri not to run apps
02:03 sri while mod_php is a way to run php scripts
02:03 lluad I saw someone looking for AxKit support the other day. You'd be amazed what's out there in production.
02:03 mspo mod_perl is just more extensive than mod_php
02:03 sri literal apache modules, like make apache speak smtp
02:03 mspo it still does the embed-perl/execute script stuff
02:04 mspo it does both
02:04 preaction mspo: responding to requests is a side-effect of what mod_perl is
02:04 lluad mod_perl was kinda awesome as a way to play with the apache internal API. Terrible route to serving web pages, though.
02:05 sri mattp: sure, but that's just not gonna happen
02:05 Grinnz debugging mod_perl is an amazing way to crush your soul
02:06 mspo modperl::registry for life
02:06 mattp sri: ya your probably right. i wish my currrent job didnt crush my opensource soul
02:06 Grinnz mspo, i'll put it this way; mod_perl puts your application in a very unusual and constricted environment
02:07 Grinnz running it as its own process lets it work normally, and the webserver can proxy to it and everything is rainbows
02:07 mspo if mod_perl_registry was its own thing without the whole <Perl>rewrite apache internals()</Perl> it would still be great
02:07 sri mattp: i understand that the optimists out there have to disagree with me
02:07 sri i'm just a pragmatist
02:08 mattp sri: of course. if you were wrong why hasnt it happened already
02:10 sri if the bad outweighs the good, i'd rather cut the feature than hope for someone to fix it some day
02:11 sri perl needs fresh blood, and cpanratings can scare people off, so it has to go imo
02:11 mattp sri: whats stopped you from sharing the same pragmatic view on perl as a whole
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02:12 sri mattp: what do you mean?
02:13 mattp why have you not given up on perl
02:14 sri and do what instead?
02:14 preaction perl needs to better encourage the new blood it has to contribute to the inner workings of the perl ecosystem. i don't see a lot of that... i instead see the Test2 debacle, s.c.o being regularly down despite being superceded by something better (and closed source), and some rather vitriolic community spaces being touted as "good for beginners"
02:14 preaction where's the new PAUSE? that could use an update too...
02:14 sri preaction: indeed
02:14 mattp sri: I dont know what the answer to that is
02:15 Adura emojicode instead...!
02:15 Grinnz 🤦
02:15 sri i do consider myself a polyglot programmer these days though, i'm not tied to a specific language, just happens that i still enjoy writing perl the most
02:15 Grinnz I wonder if that worked for anyone
02:15 mattp my faith in perl as a profession has been decaying for a while though
02:16 sri i mean, have you actually used ruby? it has lots of problems too
02:17 sri programming languages that were mainstream once don't really die
02:17 preaction cobol just got objects, for example
02:18 sri it's a strange time
02:18 Grinnz perl will be installed by default on basically any distro for the forseeable future, which helps
02:18 sri it's much more troubling for new languages
02:19 preaction what with how distros work these days, it's easier to find perl than a c compiler
02:19 sri like perl6 or rust, will they ever have a chance?
02:19 sri seems very unlikely
02:19 Grinnz yeah, Fedora minimal install does not include gcc afaik (which relates to the whole splitting-up-perl-core *ahem*)
02:19 preaction they won't have the adoption that earlier languages had, surely
02:20 sri language hipsters are maybe 0.000001% of the workforce, everything else moves soooooooo much slower
02:21 sri i think only Swift will be around for a very long time of the hipster languages
02:21 sri because it has a huge forced niche
02:21 preaction yeah, the people who know enough to hate Obj-C :p
02:21 sri like javascript :)
02:22 mattp Im not sure what I was expecting with the perl 6 release/response, but whatever it was, the real thing was not it
02:22 sri Go maybe too... but it's niche is much weaker
02:23 sri personally, i still enjoy perl, i just want a few small things to get fixed
02:24 Grinnz mattp, "and the crowd went mild"
02:24 sri like finally signatures everywhere *cough*
02:24 sri which reminds me
02:24 sri ribasushi: didn't you say OP_SIGNATURE was coming back?
02:26 Adura It'd be nice to know what module is best for doing X, which ratings could help with.
02:27 Adura Though, perhaps reviews would be better than just ratings.
02:27 Grinnz it's a crapshoot whether the ratings will be helpful
02:27 Grinnz reviews too, though they give you a little more context to judge, it's still hard to know if people are just making stuff up
02:28 Adura Then, how does one know what is best to do... JSON with? Usage numbers on CPAN?
02:28 Grinnz ask freenode#perl :P
02:28 sri i always thought it would be fun if you could ++ people on metacpan too, which would then boost the modules those people ++ for your searches (maybe mention "you like sri, sri likes DBD::Pg")
02:29 sri or not ++, but follow people
02:29 preaction there are usage numbers on cpan?
02:29 Grinnz Task::Kensho is a decent effort at such a thing also, and metacpan links to it in some places
02:29 Adura By usage numbers I mean modules that use modules you wish to know about.
02:30 Adura Think there's a search for that on metacpan...
02:30 Grinnz dependent counts?
02:30 Adura Yeah.
02:30 Grinnz possibly helpful, possibly not
02:30 Grinnz for example, the dependent counts on JSON.pm are likely astronomical, but it's a horrible module
02:32 Grinnz sri, sounds kinda like when twitter shows you tweets that people you follow liked or follow
02:32 Adura Then... one would hope being in the same boat as all those other authors you'd have enough public support for improving JSON.pm.
02:32 sri Grinnz: more like the recommendations for people you might want to follow
02:32 Grinnz no one has had much luck with makamaka lately :/
02:33 sri https://twitter.com/kraih # "You may also like @PerlDancer"
02:33 sri -.-
02:33 Grinnz hehe
02:35 Adura The most users would have the most squeaky wheels which get the most grease.
02:39 preaction as long as someone's watching, sure
02:39 Adura JSON.pm's authors aren't?
02:39 bpmedley Adura : That varies.  I sometimes seek out users that are silent.
02:40 Grinnz nope, makamaka is the only person with perms for JSON.pm
02:45 Adura I guess it just goes on its name being simple "JSON"...
02:46 preaction and nobody starting the takeover procedure with the pause admins
02:47 mattp what is the problem with JSON?
02:48 preaction the JSON.pm module has a lot of bugs with patches waiting and nobody applying them
02:48 Grinnz it also manages to slow down JSON::XS significantly compared to just using it directly
02:48 mattp isnt JSON core?
02:49 Grinnz no
02:49 Grinnz JSON::PP is
02:49 preaction and it's also cpan-upstream, so p5p doesn't maintain it
02:50 Adura Seems kind of important.
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05:36 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v2bDK
05:36 good_news_everyon mojo/master f51f65c Sebastian Riedel: improve performance of .ep templates slightly
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05:36 sri it's funny nobody ever checked that
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05:52 sri this explanation of diffie-hellman key exchange is great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEBfamv-_do
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06:20 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v2bSV
06:20 good_news_everyon mojo/master 612b366 Sebastian Riedel: for looks better than map
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10:14 sri ouch, automatic retry is scary http://jvns.ca/blog/2016/03/04/whats-up-with-ruby-http-libraries/
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11:15 sri btw. a crude implementation of variables in Mojo::Template https://gist.github.com/anonymous/204f902508d2e66e7c2f
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13:13 ribasushi sri: it's very low on my own prio list, and the others who were supposed to push for it went awol
13:14 ribasushi sri: so - not this time around it seems
13:21 mishanti1 sri: That was a pretty great explaination yes. Being introduced to DH was my first "mind blown"-experience in computer science. The simplicity of the thing is fantastic.
13:24 mishanti1 Remember a book I once read titled "Building Internet Firewalls" where it was mentioned in a funny way: "People who use Diffie-Hellman to encrypt data are extremely confused .... such people are not as rare as one would hope."
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14:13 * jberger was trying to really get Mojo::ACME in a tip-top shape before releasing but now I'm getting anxious, I kinda just want to put out an early release
14:17 jberger though now that I've said that I already have a thing that I want to change
14:17 jberger :s
14:25 pink_mist jberger: that's what 0.02 is for :P
14:26 jberger in this case I'm trying to make the config and command sections as stable as I can from the outset
14:26 jberger and also I want to have at least decent test coverage
14:26 jberger both of which is taking longer than I want
14:29 jberger I feel a different level of importance on this given the subject matter
15:34 mishanti1 This might seem like a silly question, but if my mojo app at '/foo/bar/baz/my-app' har been started and is running, is it some way of signaling it and tell it to restart (like with `kill -USR2`) but switch to '/foo/bar/baz2/my-app'?
15:34 mishanti1 In other words zero-downtime restart but with switching script location.
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15:44 anon mishanti1: I would use a symbolic link for that
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16:03 mishanti1 anon: That the next step in the process here and want to do a zero-downtime move, hence the question. Thanks for the input though. :)
16:03 mishanti1 s/anon/csson/
16:13 vicash If I have two mojo apps each using Minion, will the same minion_jobs and related tables be used ?
16:16 vicash does that mean that if each app has a task named the same, then there is no guarantee that the minion::worker will pick the correct task ?
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17:59 csson mishanti1: I see.. If you run it behind nginx I think this would work: 1) setup the symlink and start the symlinked application on a different port 2) change the nginx config to point to the symlinked application 3) reload nginx
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19:37 vicash when I use morbo how do I get it to generate a log file instead of printing stuff on screen ?
19:38 thowe I seem to recall that you just need to have a log directory
19:38 thowe lemme look at my dirs real quick
19:39 vicash thowe: i created a log directory but that doesn't do it. this should really be a commandline option.
19:39 thowe I don't think it makes the screen output stop
19:39 vicash ok thanks.
19:39 thowe I'm certainly getting data in my logfile without any special commands, but that doesn't mean I don't have something else set I don't remember...
19:40 vicash Yes you're right thowe. Creating the log/ directory automatically prints to the log file. the screen output stops.
19:41 thowe OK, cool.  Glad I could offer a little help.
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20:50 bpmedley vicash : Did you end up using multiple databases for your apps?
21:04 jberger hmmmm is there no way to point Mojo::Log to a scalar reference handle?
21:11 jberger I guess I can just prevent writing by unsubscribing from message
21:14 vicash bpmedley: yes. actually. it was a silly question, didn't remember that I was using separate databases for the apps
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22:37 Topic for #mojo is now 🍻 cheers | http://mojolicious.org | http://irclog.mojolicious.org | http://code-of-conduct.mojolicious.org
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23:02 sri oh, that is curious http://blogs.perl.org/users/mauke/2016/03/perl-curio-dereferencing-blocks.html
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23:58 bpmedley jberger : http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojo/Log#handle <-- Would setting handle to a IO::String work?

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