# IRC log for #mojo, 2016-05-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:28 jberger sri: yeah, its the power management that I'd worry about
00:29 jberger mishanti1: I actually liked the couple questions we asked at the bank
00:29 jberger not programming puzzles so much as logic puzzles, and we don't really care if they get the answer right (we even told them this) but we want to see their thought process
00:30 jberger we did have them do a code sample before it got to interviews
00:32 preaction the elevator problem is a good one, i think
00:34 jberger yeah, it addresses several common OO patterns and has clear/testable goals
00:34 bpmedley I think questions like please give a complete answer for pi are fair..
00:34 jberger I can do that for you
00:35 bpmedley :-O
00:35 preaction give a complete answer for pi is a trivia question
00:35 jberger but you have to give me a huge computer and/or infinite time
00:35 jberger probably "and"
00:36 jberger I like the monte carlo solution
00:36 preaction pi = C / d # done
00:37 jberger take two random numbers less than one, square them and add them together (and square root them if you want, but you don't have to actually)
00:37 jberger if it is less than 1 increment a counter
00:38 jberger the ratio of the number of hits (less than one) to the number of tries is
00:38 jberger is pi/4
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01:39 nicomen which is the ratio between the area of a circle to its enclosed square?
01:40 nicomen it would be funnier to do it with darts ;)
01:40 jberger of course it would :-P
01:40 nicomen a pencil might do
01:41 nicomen actually most interviewers would not understand it until you are counting the dots ;)
01:41 nicomen but I guess the division is still tricky
01:42 nicomen I guess the fraction would be an ok answer
01:46 jberger as I always said when I was teaching physics, I was totally uninterested in the actual number
01:46 nicomen heh
01:46 jberger once you have the analytic form, you are done
01:46 nicomen I remember doing things like this when I didn't remember the actual constants
01:46 nicomen or formulas
01:46 nicomen I always drew a coordinate with a circle enclosed to remember wether height or width was found with cos or sin
01:46 nicomen I think I might still have to, lol
01:46 jberger I totally support that notion
01:47 jberger memorize only what you need to, once you have those derive everything else
01:47 jberger you'd be amazed at how few ACTUAL fundamental equations exist in physics
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10:40 sri guess i'll keep the replacement macbook
10:41 sri but if the surface book was 300 euro cheaper i would have switched
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14:22 sri i feel like i'm being trolled https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mojolicious/bR4T1X7FClc
14:24 coolo his packages are crap
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14:55 genio He is supposedly using this package: http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/perl/libmojolicious-perl
14:56 genio and that package does, indeed, include Mojo::JSON
14:56 genio http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/all/libmojolicious-perl/filelist
14:56 genio So, I suspect he's just confused.  His confusion lead him to be frustrated, which he took out a little bit in his emails.
15:00 genio I jumped in and replied in effort to curb his frustration.  Hope you don't mind.
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15:04 jberger genio++
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19:19 * sri wonders if all of perl maven is so sloppy, or just the mojolicious parts http://perlmaven.com/getting-started-with-mojolicious-lite
19:20 sri the whole "Your secret passphrase needs to be changed!!!" block is completely pointless
19:20 sri and the old vs new parts almost read like criticism :S
19:22 sri there is so much cool stuff to write about, why would you do something that uninspired
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19:23 preaction from what i can tell it's basically mostly like that
19:28 jberger I pretty much think that he's going for page views
19:29 jberger he has lots of little posts about seemingly trivial things
19:29 sri guess that makes sense
19:29 jberger then again newcomers often need the trivial things
19:30 bpmedley jberger: Seems to me that the issue is that the article does not use common idioms.
19:30 bpmedley For example, I don't see templates used for the form.
19:30 bpmedley So, the newcomer would not be told the current best usage.
19:30 jberger that's to be expected from someone outside of the mojo community
19:31 sri he prolly translated some dancer tutorial
19:31 bpmedley Not using templates is expected?
19:31 sri it's common with dancer because they don't have DATA section templates
19:32 bpmedley I see
19:33 jberger I specifically meant "not using the common idioms" is to be expected
19:33 jberger and using DATA section templates is just one of those
19:34 sri interesting change in the tiobe graph in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Xa4dQVq.png
19:36 bpmedley Really sweet that Modern Perl is getting some traction in the news and jobs.
19:36 jberger anecdotally I'm hearing stories of people/companies moving back to perl
19:36 bpmedley Anything you can share?
19:37 jberger as much as I agitate for breaking changes to the language the stories I hear are that they have such deployment troubles with other more recent languages (dependency/version hell) that they remember fondly that their Perl applications Just Worked
19:38 jberger a commitment to stability in perl/CPAN means that people who are bad at devops can mostly skate by
19:38 jberger where that is certainly not the case in say Ruby
19:38 sri yay :S
19:39 jberger inorite, it is a dubious distinction
19:40 jberger most people/companies aren't able to manage per-application interpreters/library-paths
19:40 jberger they have one giant pile of applications running out of the same interpreter
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19:40 jberger this is what drives things like docker too IIUC
19:41 jberger rather than have per-application interpreters/libraries they have per-application vms
19:41 jberger in that way each one can use the "system" interpreter and libraries
19:41 jberger (of their own vm)
19:41 jberger but now you have to manage docker deployments
19:42 jberger and they say "remember when Perl used to just work"
19:42 jberger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:42 jberger I guess its better to have that than nothing at all
19:47 jberger speak of the devil: https://bitbucket.org/product/features/pipelines
19:47 jberger "Building different languages? We've got your back. It's as easy as changing a single line of code in your configuration file and grabbing an already existing Docker image which supports that language!"
19:49 Jonis Haven't given docker a shot yet.
19:50 jberger and Jenkins just announced a similar pipeline project: https://jenkins.io/blog/2016/05/26/introducing-blue-ocean/
19:50 jberger guess we know where that market is going
19:51 marcus to heck?
19:51 jberger marcus++
19:51 Jonis :D
19:51 jberger Jonis: I haven't either
19:51 marcus docker is v nice
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19:52 Jonis I've been meaning to for my linode. Shove all the php stuff into a container and forget it ever existed.
19:52 jberger with perl (the interpreter) being so forward compatible and Carton existing so far I really haven't needed to care
19:52 Jonis also been meaning to use carton :p
19:53 jberger the real problem would be if I had an application that needed an old version of say a db and one that needed a newer one
19:53 marcus I'm running request tracker in docker at work
19:53 marcus seemed the easiest solution to distribute the same perl+deps to a bunch of rhel boxes
19:54 marcus I don't really want to rebuild my plenv over and over between dev/test/prod for 3 different envs
19:54 preaction and docker, et al. doesn't save you from dependency hell anyway
19:54 jberger just crossed dependency hell
19:54 preaction what if you need two libs in one app that have conflicting deps? you're still screwed
19:55 jberger well ok, yes, but nothing saves you there
19:55 jberger I guess p6 can actually do that
19:55 jberger but meh
19:56 preaction the perl community saves you there ;)
19:56 jberger well yes that too
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19:58 marcus I heard node can do that too.
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20:03 Grinnz this seems weird, how does using rexify preclude using carton/cpan? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/mojolicious/bR4T1X7FClc/u6tUIq0tPwAJ
20:03 preaction it doesn't, at all
20:04 preaction indeed i automated my entire release process around local::lib and cpanm -L using rex
20:06 jberger is there a rex plugin for apt-get?
20:06 jberger there is one for ansible I know
20:06 jberger I can imagine that's what he is talking about
20:06 preaction there's a built-in for ensuring packages are installed
20:06 jberger that email chain has a distinct lack of some quality that I can't put my finger to
20:07 jberger detail?
20:07 preaction friendliness?
20:07 jberger that too
20:08 preaction respect. demanding answers without doing any research whatsoever. claiming they're extremely important
20:11 jberger yeah
20:11 jberger I pondered adding something of that nature to my reply, but I didn't in the end
20:11 jberger if it comes around again, I might
20:38 jberger has anyone played factorio?
20:38 jberger I have tried it a bit and I'm wondering if others have liked it
21:04 sri tried it for a little bit, it's weird
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21:16 sri and a bit too slow for me i guess
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21:31 genio jberger: Do you mind a quick conversation in PM about a writeup that I'm nowhere near ready to be publicly logged anywhere yet?
21:31 jberger genio: sure
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