The web in a box - a next generation web framework for the Perl programming language

IRC log for #mojo, 2016-06-02

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 punter joined #mojo
00:08 tchaves joined #mojo
00:14 mcsnolte joined #mojo
02:24 indianowl joined #mojo
02:31 mcsnolte joined #mojo
02:34 tchaves joined #mojo
02:41 tchaves joined #mojo
02:42 noganex_ joined #mojo
03:00 che-quest joined #mojo
03:01 tchaves joined #mojo
03:04 inokenty-w joined #mojo
03:20 atom joined #mojo
03:21 atom I figured out how to change the directory location where it looks for all the templates, but how do you change the default location of the ./root folder?
03:22 pink_mist ./root???? 0_o what?
03:22 atom the default ./root directory where all the static files are
03:23 atom I need that /some/where/else
03:23 atom but I don't see any docs on configuring that
03:23 bpmedley atom: http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious#static <-- Possibly this?
03:23 pink_mist I've never heard of a ./root
03:23 atom you know the ./script ... ./t ... ./lib ... ./log ... and ./root
03:24 bpmedley atom: Do you mean public?
03:24 pink_mist no, there's no ./root
03:24 pink_mist you're making that up
03:24 atom dammit
03:24 atom I'm going crazy
03:24 atom yeah
03:24 atom public
03:24 atom sorry :)
03:25 atom this explains why my google searches are coming up empty
03:26 zivester joined #mojo
03:37 tchaves joined #mojo
03:41 jberger atom: :D
04:09 che-quest joined #mojo
04:13 indianowl joined #mojo
05:09 coolo "Please refrain from using rt.cpan.org or any other bug reporting service. I put the contact address into my modules for a reason." - I love contacting friendly people
05:10 coolo he even has his own irc channel on his own irc server
05:11 preaction sounds like schmorp...
05:12 coolo how could you have guessed
05:15 coolo I wonder though how someone as fastidious or let's say as german releases a module to cpan without any license - let alone a free one
05:16 lluad joined #mojo
05:22 Grinnz still the only cpan author I know of that dislikes RT but refuses to set their preferred issue reporting method in metadata
05:22 Grinnz which RT, metacpan and search.cpan.org all respect
05:22 Grinnz or at least tell you about
05:38 coolo oh, I just found my new favorite cpan module: Test::Tolerant - useful companian of Acme::Test::VW
05:53 dod joined #mojo
06:05 ivi joined #mojo
06:10 dod joined #mojo
06:11 dod joined #mojo
06:42 cosimo joined #mojo
07:01 osfabibisi joined #mojo
07:19 andrew_ joined #mojo
07:20 sri my level of hate for RT is almost at the schmorp level now
07:21 sri since it keeps sending me spam which i have to manually flag in gmail
07:24 Vandal joined #mojo
07:25 coolo time for srifourge then
07:28 sri i'm already using github exclusively
07:28 sri point is, rt doesn't let you opt-out of email notifications
07:28 sri so Grinnz's point is moot
07:29 sri and schmorp is right on this
07:32 * coolo doesn't care about rt (not having any cpan modules), I just don't want to write emails to schmorp :)
07:56 sri this issue is getting a bit silly https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/966
07:56 sri i might close it soon
08:02 sri dismissing security concerns with "just make it optional" is bad
08:04 dod joined #mojo
08:07 coolo batman: just to avoid you getting bored - I don't get the fonts on deployment. It worked with the submodules though :)
08:07 coolo batman: assets/cache/maxcdn.bootstrapcdn.com/font-awesome/4.6.3/css/font-awesome.min.css: */@font-face{font-family:'FontAwesome';src:url('../fonts/fontawesome-webfont.eot?v=4.6.3')
08:08 coolo so the font will be loaded from /assets/fonts/fontawesome-webfont.eot?v=4.6.3 but the fetch pipe downloads it elsewhere
08:08 coolo I don't see what I do different than the docu
08:11 batman coolo: sure, the files in cache/maxcdn.... should not be changed, but the asset served in the browser should be changed if you use the Fetch pipe
08:11 sri jberger: i think this is actually incorrect http://perldoc.perl.org/perlunifaq.html#Can-I-use-Unicode-in-my-Perl-sources%3f
08:11 batman coolo: there's no code (and it won't be any code) to change the content in assets/cache/cdn.example.com/...
08:11 sri jberger: identifiers can't start with a number
08:12 coolo batman: ok. so what code does this rewrite then and when? because it's not happening here
08:12 batman then it's a bug.
08:13 batman coolo: here is the test: https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/blob/master/t/font-awesome.t
08:13 coolo batman: ok, I'll debug
08:14 coolo but this is within the Fetch pipe?
08:14 batman i'm very sure it's working though... because of the test
08:14 batman sure. you need the Fetch pipe.
08:14 batman things doesn't get downloaded magically :/
08:15 batman or... they kind of do i guess with the Fetch pipe ;)
08:16 coolo batman: the downloading always works. but if the font url() get rewritten depends on something else
08:16 batman the test disagrees
08:17 coolo because in production I lack fontawesom and bootstrap's glyphs and in development I only lack bootstrap's glyphs
08:17 coolo batman: the test only checks fontawesome on its own
08:17 coolo batman: let me debug - I'll do a PR (to whatever part is to blame :)
08:17 batman write a failing test and we'll fix it!
08:18 coolo that easy? :)
08:18 batman coolo: i take partial PR as well: which means i appreciate if you *just* open a PR with a failing test
08:19 batman yeah... since "time" is something i don't have these days i need a failing test or example.
08:19 batman i don't have time to debug stuff :(
08:19 coolo sure
08:25 coolo and just for reference: this happens in my normal development environment, unrelated to packaging
08:37 coolo google for 'test mojo print full response' found http://mojoupgrade.com/
08:39 * coolo is abusing content_is('NOWAY') - but it feels ugly
08:52 dod joined #mojo
09:26 sri argh
09:26 sri so i tried to install windows 10 on the new macbook
09:26 sri and as it turns out, the license is in fact burned
09:26 sri it is tied to the old one
09:26 sri was just on the phone with microsoft
09:27 nic often a phonecall to Ms can sort that...   oh :(
09:28 sri as it turns out, i would have had to deactivate the license on the old laptop manually
09:29 sri microsoft guy said there's a workaround, but i would have to install windows 7 on the macbook, activate that, and upgrade to windows 10
09:29 sri but, apple bootcamp only works with windows 8+ :(
09:29 sri so, the license is lost
09:30 Jonis coolo element_exists?
09:30 Wmn joined #mojo
09:31 coolo Jonis: I don't want to test, I just abuse tests to debug. so I want to see the full content
09:32 sri genio/pink_mist: so yea, machine failure does void the license, because it's an upgrade license
09:35 * coolo can see the logic, but it's cruel
09:39 dod1 joined #mojo
09:39 sri genio: if you have something else to do with the license, do it quickly, the free windows 10 upgrade ends july 29
09:39 sri the windows 7 -> 10 upgrade should work according to the microsoft guy
09:42 dod joined #mojo
09:44 sri if someone else has a spare windows 7/8 retail key, i'd love to have it before july 29
09:44 bd allright, CVE in phantomjs https://github.com/ariya/phantomjs/issues/14244
09:58 meshl joined #mojo
10:11 sri guess i'm kinda glad now i didn't get a surface book
10:11 sri apple screwed up, but they tried everything they could to make up for it
10:12 sri microsoft support is way worse
10:23 dotan Minion::Backend::file is dead, right? A link to its docs on mojolicious.org shows up in a google search for minion::backend
10:26 Wmn Is this expected behaviour: http://pastebin.com/6Ms2LAFm ?
10:26 coolo batman: so after quite some debugging I ended up reducing the bug to https://github.com/jhthorsen/mojolicious-plugin-assetpack/issues/91
10:30 stephan48 sri: ask apple if they can assign you a windows 7 license?
10:34 McA joined #mojo
10:34 dotan coolo: so that's a one-line fix, and you have a working test...
10:35 dotan send batman a pull request?
10:35 coolo dotan: that's not what we agreed on :)
10:35 coolo but the real issue I'm hunting another bug - that might be in my app or in the library
10:43 Kripton joined #mojo
10:45 tchaves joined #mojo
10:51 sri stephan48: "hey yo apple, i forgot to deactivate windows on the broken macbook, why don't you buy me a new license for a version of windows microsoft doesn't even sell anymore?"
10:51 sri wat?
10:52 sri honestly, if microsoft insists on being shitty about their licenses, i'm ok with mojolicious being shitty on windows again
10:54 dvinciguerra joined #mojo
10:59 sri i mean seriously, none of this information is even available on the web
10:59 stephan48 oh wait... it was no apple oem license?
11:00 sri lol, wat?
11:00 coolo there is such a thing?
11:00 sri hahahaha
11:00 sri you must have never owned a mac
11:00 stephan48 i know windows, linux and noooooootttthhhiiing about macs
11:01 stephan48 but yea it would honestly not surprise me if apple had OEM licenses for Windows...
11:01 coolo sri: the sad part is this company is full of hardware we had to buy with Windows license, but never had windows on them. But I'm pretty sure these licenses don't transfer at all
11:01 sri it was a retail windows 7 license genio gave me so i could use the free windows 10 upgrade to test mojolicious on bash for windows
11:02 coolo stephan48: if you know linux - think of the macbook as bananapi (just different fruit) and ask the same question ;)
11:03 stephan48 sri: ah ok - sorry then - makes sense :)
11:04 sri microsoft almost had me with their new pro open source attitude and ubuntu on windows
11:05 sri but it's still the same at the core
11:07 stephan48 sadly yea
11:10 Jonis need to fix the File::Find thing to compile new perls on windows, I can't recall if that was the only thing that needed fixing.
11:10 absolut_todd joined #mojo
11:13 csson joined #mojo
11:19 sri when genio gave me the license we got this out of it https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/dc0da0f37004eeca928df0851ae48c9ce9efd981
11:19 absolut_todd joined #mojo
11:19 sri now zero downtime restarts work on windows
11:19 sri kinda big
11:23 sri so i guess it was not in vain
11:26 jberger sri: cab you install win7 in virtual box long enough to deactivate?
11:26 jberger s/cab/can/ # why do i even try to irc this early?
11:28 sri jberger: doesn't work
11:31 sri honestly, i'm not even sure if it can be deactivated from windows 10
11:31 jberger It was a windows install disk accusing me of theft that pushed me to Linux in 2007
11:31 sri the microsoft guy on the phone kept saying the upgraded windows 10 license is a sepcial entitlement tied to the hardware
11:32 jberger That's just nuts
11:32 sri so i think using a windows 7 key during a windows 10 install is a one-time thing
11:33 jberger I had wiped the hd and was reinstalling windows (as you do :s )
11:34 jberger Little did i know that since i had done a bios upgrade to fix a serious issue the oem disk checksum would now fail
11:35 jberger And even that i could maybe understand
11:35 jberger But it phrased the failure message as "you have stolen this windows installation disk "
11:35 jberger At which point i have never intentionally used windows since
11:36 sri from what i understand, the windows 7 key can from now on only be activated with a windows 7 on the target hardware
11:36 sri which will then offer a windows 10 upgrade
11:36 jberger And even try to buy Linux/ no os hardware
11:36 che-quest joined #mojo
11:36 sri until july 29
11:37 jberger If i had a win7 lic I'd give it to you, but i clearly don't :p
11:38 dod joined #mojo
11:41 mpapec searching how to write to local syslog using Mojo::IOLoop::Client
11:43 mpapec I hope it could perform better if needed instead of file/flock logging
11:43 mpapec *file&flock*
11:44 mpapec any pointers are welcome :)
11:47 mpapec can vanilla http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Sys/Syslog perform UDP in non-blocking way under mojo?
12:13 kaare_ joined #mojo
12:23 Jonis -w 4
12:26 mpapec che-quest: any particular reason for using uwsgi?
12:31 che-quest nothing particular, force of mind habit
12:33 dantti_laptop joined #mojo
12:41 trone joined #mojo
12:50 gizmomathboy joined #mojo
13:05 ramortegui joined #mojo
13:22 ribasushi joined #mojo
13:27 genio sri: That sucks.  Are you sure?  You should be able to install the Win7, update it to the latest patches, and start the win10 upgrade.  once you upgrade, wait until your machine authorizes the install, then use the download tool to make an install usb key, and do a fresh install of win10.  you then will no longer need win7 at all.  your machine will be OKed by win10
13:28 genio it just checks that you have a valid win7 install and authorizes your machine.  if win7 doesn't care that the license is a duplicate, neither does win10
13:28 genio we're doing hundreds of win7 oem machines here at work.  the process should be the same for yours as you have a proper license
13:29 genio it sucks that it would require you to install and go through updates in win7 first, but it should work.  and once your machine is authorized, you're good to do a fresh install of win10.  no keys needed at that point
13:30 genio it's quite a bit of time to spend, but give that a try before giving up
13:34 genio Either way, let me know if there's something on that I can help you iron out as I've been through it many times at this point.
13:36 dod joined #mojo
13:55 zivester joined #mojo
13:56 sri genio: problem is i can't install windows 7 on the machine
13:56 sri bootcamp is windows 8+
13:57 sri there seem to be workarounds for installing windows 7 on older macs, but this one is way too new
13:58 punter joined #mojo
13:59 sri strange nobody buys stickers anymore, not even the raptors
13:59 sri think only like 2 stickers have sold in 2 months
13:59 mrEriksson G'day!
14:00 mrEriksson (Wrong window, but, g'day to you folks too :-))
14:01 genio sri: oh, man.  That's no fun.  Well, if you know of someone that can use the license, please feel free to pass it on.  I've considered it no longer mine
14:02 genio or, maybe make your old mac a windows-only machine
14:08 batman coolo: thanks for the test. Unfortunately I don't know when I can fix it.
14:08 batman Quite busy the next days, and then I'm going on vacation.
14:09 batman Bringing my laptop, so I can have vacation from vacation from time to time. Maybe I can fix it then :)
14:11 Bean joined #mojo
14:14 batman Pretty sure the fix is quite simple though: thinking about extracting everything between (..) and the remove the quotes afterwards - if any
14:18 dod joined #mojo
14:23 coolo batman: it's not really urgent for me. I found my underlying problem - and it's more or less a suprising a misfeature in your lib :)
14:24 coolo batman: the fetch pipe ignores every url seen twice - and due to an invalid asset definition I happend to have included bootstrap twice. So the later urls won - but were invalid and not rewritten
14:24 jberger sri: the stickers aren't linked on the webpage
14:24 coolo the issue I reported I only found while trying to reproduce the problem as a test ;)
14:30 sri hmm, perhaps there is a way to deactivate with windows 7 in virtualbox
14:36 lluad joined #mojo
14:45 sri there is so much bad information about this on the web
14:45 sri in the end a youtube video seems to provide the correct answer -.-
14:48 genio ugh.  I hate those.  30 minute long video to tell you a 5-second answer
14:50 sri installing virtualbox feels so wrong
14:50 * sri would really like to avoid touching anything oracle
15:06 sri gotta say, virtualbox got very smooth
15:07 genio and vagrant makes it even easier
15:08 jberger I use virtualbox pretty regularly
15:08 jberger oracle is evil but ... <3 virtualbox anyway
15:08 genio ^^ that
15:35 Grinnz_ basically how i feel about sony and movie studio/vegas... which they're selling off now anyway
15:59 PryMar56 joined #mojo
16:21 disputin joined #mojo
16:24 sri holy shit, think i've installed windows like 10 times today to try new stuff...
16:24 sri and the result is still the same
16:25 sri i've deactivated windows 7 in virtualbox, but the key doesn't work with windows 10
16:25 sri so, there must be a magical flag that says you can use the key only once to activate windows 10
16:26 jberger hack into redmond and clear the flag, how hard can it be?! they are probably using IIS
16:31 iamb i know jack about win licensing, but i have an old purchased win 7 key if it helps. i think i used it on a box never connected to internet? not sure. you're welcome to try it.
16:32 sri it might
16:32 iamb i'll pm it to you
16:32 sri \o/
16:33 cfedde I have an array of "pairs" that I need to convert into the obvious XML document.  Is there some "easy way" that I'm overlooking?
16:33 jabberwok S&M = Oracle^H^H^H^H^H^HSun + Microsoft.
16:34 jabberwok (no matter how you slice it comes up pain.)
16:34 cfedde slicing usualy hurts someone.
16:35 orev joined #mojo
16:42 sri different error now, but a much better one :)
16:42 sri "code cannot be used to activate this edition of windows 10"
16:42 sri so, i assume if i get ahold of the non-pro version it will work
16:42 sri not that i know what a pro version is
16:44 sri iamb++
16:45 sri think that means another reinstall... and it will then pick the home edition when i enter the key during install
16:46 iamb aw, i guess i'm not a pro :)
16:46 iamb hope it works!
16:50 jabberwok cfedde: http://www.pastebeest.com/D3  altho you will have to provide your own <![CDATA[ … ]]> escapes
16:52 cfedde jabberwok: thanks
17:05 disputin joined #mojo
17:06 punter joined #mojo
17:20 disputin joined #mojo
17:40 disputin joined #mojo
17:50 sri iamb: thanks, worked flawlessly
17:51 sri so, the windows 7 ultimate from genio license needs a new home
17:51 sri i've poked #mojo-core, but it seems nobody there needs one
17:51 genio shall I poke #p5p or #toolchain?
17:52 genio or #native maybe?
17:52 sri sure, would be cool if it went to a good cause
17:52 genio ok, will do.
17:52 preaction you could set up a vnc thing and/or a cpantesters box as well
17:53 sri oh, one small thing, it needs to be activated by phone
17:54 genio I haven't at all researched how to setup a cpantesters box.  so, if someone else has that capability, I'll gladly pass it on
17:55 sri apparently microsoft really doesn't like more than one activation
18:12 Kage joined #mojo
18:15 disputin joined #mojo
18:15 Kage Silly question: So if I declare a static object at the start of an application, run it in hypnotoad, run 10 workers, and it gets 10,000 requests, every single request in all workers will be accessing the same object?
18:15 Kage Or, put in real terms, a static MySQL model, 10,000 requests across 10 workers means it's still only coming from a single MySQL connection, right?
18:16 Kage Or is it potentially 10 different connections?
18:16 Kage (since 10 workers)
18:17 cpan_mojo Mojo-JSON-MaybeXS-0.011 by DBOOK https://metacpan.org/release/DBOOK/Mojo-JSON-MaybeXS-0.011
18:20 jberger Kage: yes 10
18:20 Kage Ah, damn
18:21 jberger Kage: why do you ask?
18:21 Grinnz_ workers are processes, processes cannot share connections
18:21 Kage I was hoping to make an in-memory key store that could be shared by all workers
18:21 Kage Rather than using memcached or redis
18:21 Grinnz_ sharing memory is a dirty road you don't want to go down :)
18:22 Grinnz_ at least not in perl
18:22 jberger CHI has a shared memory storage thingy, but it has limitations
18:22 Kage Well, it's for sessions that I don't want in cookie
18:22 Grinnz_ things like redis or just the regular database are generally fine for that
18:22 jberger Grinnz_++
18:23 preaction fastmmap is pretty common, too. also memcached.
18:23 Kage Ideally, I'd like to do in-memory sessions with only the session ID in the cookie, namely for storing things like TOTP's and CAPTCHA data, without having to blowfish those values or something
18:24 Kage 'Cause otherwise everything in $c->session is visible in the cookie, and it renders captchas and OTP useless
18:24 jberger preaction: fastmmap is what i was thinking of with CHI
18:24 preaction right, both of those are available via CHI
18:25 Kage So how would you guys solve this sessions issue?
18:25 jberger Kage: are you already using a database?
18:25 jberger One more select isn't going to hurt too much
18:25 Kage I am, but I'd like to limit the amount of SQL queries if I can
18:26 Kage Granted I can use a HEAP table, but I wanted to try to keeping it pure Perl if feasible
18:26 Kupank joined #mojo
18:26 jberger There is DBM::Deep
18:26 jberger But it isn't very fast
18:26 jberger But it is effective
18:27 Kage Would rather in-memory only
18:27 Kage Without having to toss that file on a ramdisk or something
18:27 Kage If I gotta use Memcached or a HEAP table, that's fine
18:28 Kage Question is, though, which?
18:30 disputin joined #mojo
18:38 mpapec joined #mojo
18:39 Kage Here's another question:
18:41 Kage So, I was thinking about rendering some pages from a database rather than from static files.  I'd like to also put EP in them.  I tried running it through Mojo::Template, and even doing some monkey-patching similar to the EPRenderer source, but I could not get $c and helpers inside that object.
18:41 Kage Ideas?
18:54 Grinnz Kage, memcached and redis are in-memory. and there's Mojo::Redis2 which is nice
18:54 Grinnz all perl redis interfaces are pretty similar
18:55 jberger Kage: you aren't in a context where you could just use the ep renderer?
19:22 Kage jberger, if I'm in a controller context, how would I render EP inside the controller, and not using $c->render()
19:22 jberger render_to_text
19:23 jberger oh, render_to_string
19:23 jberger sorry
19:23 Kage Oh shit, I never saw inline there
19:23 Kage Well damn, that changes everything :O
19:28 jberger inline is nice but not very efficient because the template cannot be cached
19:28 jberger IIUC
19:31 sri nice thing about bootcamp is that os x just mounts it as a second hd
19:31 sri doesn't feel as much like wasting space when you're not using windows much
19:33 preaction i remember parallels would even boot that partition as a vm if you needed, which was extra nice
19:54 dotan joined #mojo
20:06 disputin joined #mojo
20:18 disputin joined #mojo
20:20 sri i guess there's not really that much people who could use a win 7 license
20:21 Grinnz_ I would if I needed windows for more than one computer, cause I'm not getting win 10 :P
20:21 sri wonder if we are a bit of an island of mac users inside the perl community :)
20:24 sri now i have to look at google analytics
20:29 genio must be.  nobody's gotten in touch with me.  if someone contacts you, please don't hesitate to give it away
20:31 sri interesting, on mojolicious.org os x is only the 3rd largest operating system
20:31 sri biggest is windows, and linux is a tiny bit more common than os x
20:31 sri windows being more than twice as big as linux
20:40 jberger maybe I should install win7 (or 10) in a virtualbox just in case?
20:40 jberger is the install media available somewhere?
20:40 sri microsoft has iso downloads
20:40 pink_mist eh, I browse mojolicious.org website from a windows based machine, but I only use perl on linux
20:42 Grinnz_ same...
20:44 sri jberger: you being able to test better on windows seems like a good cause
20:45 jberger probably, I have several linux boxen available to me
20:45 jberger but I don't have a windows
20:45 jberger and my mac obviously
20:46 jberger so what would I do, download win7 iso?
20:46 sri you can prolly even do a bootcamp install if you wanted to
20:46 genio jberger: if you want the physical disk, I can send that
20:47 sri you just google for windows 7 iso and follow the microsoft.com link
20:47 sri the win 7 iso asks for the key before download
20:47 * sri had to download it earlier today
20:47 jberger ok genio send it over to me
20:48 jberger or sri
20:48 jberger the key I mean, not the disk :P
20:48 mrallen1 http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=11575
20:48 sri sent
20:48 sri but wait a moment to think about how you want to use it ;p
20:49 mrallen1 those images work for more than just IE compatibility testing
20:50 sri mrallen1: how do those expire?
20:51 mrallen1 hen they have some kind of timer expiration thingy - 180 days?
20:51 mrallen1 90 days?
20:51 mrallen1 have to redownload it
20:51 mrallen1 shrug
20:51 pink_mist oh that's neat
20:52 mrallen1 if you just want to run a test suite on windows every X days, they're great
20:53 jberger I have done that before
20:53 jberger a while ago, I thought they were only in the IE6 era though :P
20:54 sri d'oh!
20:54 jberger hmmm having trouble with that key now too
20:54 jberger that one might be shot
20:54 sri microsoft now responds with an error for the windows 7 iso download Oo
20:55 jberger and my zeal to support windows wanes even further
20:55 sri which is really funny, because the win 10 iso has no checks at all, everybody can download it
20:56 jberger I found a different source but it is a more cryptic iso name
20:56 jberger I wonder if it is the right thing?
20:57 jberger https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5842
21:26 punter joined #mojo
21:32 vicash jberger: if your boxes are OEM windows, then you can re-install windows on them using the key that you already paid for in the past. Install the relevant windows version and use that key. then wait for MSFT to send you a Win10 upgrade and upgrade.
21:33 Grinnz_ you can have my taskbar-icon-bugging-for-windows-10-upgrade, I'm not using it :P
21:33 Grinnz_ (and too lazy/apathetic to disable the service)
21:33 vicash Grinnz_ you can disable that by deleting a specific windows update .. it starts with KB3035....
21:33 Grinnz_ right, that was it... maybe ill do that eventually
21:34 jberger nope that download wasn't bootable
21:34 jberger guess I'm not getting windows either
21:34 Grinnz_ for win 7 i only have a home edition CD
21:35 vicash jberger: you can also just use Azure for cheap testing and add that to your resume ;)
21:35 jberger I'd rather not need that on my resume
21:35 jberger :D
21:35 Grinnz_ they didn't realize until 8/10 that offering isos for download freely increases usability more than piracy
21:36 mishanti1 Those ISO's are awesome for use with eg. automated UI-tests / build environments. :)
21:37 vicash they always gave ISOs for download since 2006-2007 as I remember it but only through MSDN. it wasn't available for general use
21:37 Grinnz_ yeah, I remember that
21:37 mishanti1 Yeah.
21:37 Grinnz_ I had an MSDN account at one point. but too much effort.
21:37 jabberwok ah, MSDN. the "You too can be a High Priest. for a Price." club
21:37 meshl joined #mojo
21:38 vicash it has gotten cheaper now actually
21:38 Grinnz_ when you're competing with https://getfedora.org/, you need to get rid of the gates :)
21:39 jabberwok the problem turned out to be more the ballmers than the gates
21:39 mishanti1 Hehe. So Fedora has fixed their stuff? Fedora used to be what we scared people with if we wanted some mean-spirited fun. :p
21:39 Grinnz_ I also like that they finally support installation from USB drives though I haven't done it myself yet
21:39 Grinnz_ mishanti1: depends what you thought was broken I guess, fedora has ups and downs :P
21:39 Grinnz_ it's a fast moving distro
21:40 Grinnz_ the web design lately is really nice though
21:40 Grinnz_ jabberwok: damn I didn't even realize I made that pun
21:40 mishanti1 Grinnz_: Yeah. Seem to remember that. yum update used to be russian roulette, only with bullets in every chamber plus some external forces also with guns pointed at you.
21:40 vicash does fedora still do the whole "no mp3 software" available stuff because of copyright crap
21:41 Grinnz_ yes, because of patents actually
21:41 Grinnz_ but you can just use rpmfusion
21:41 mishanti1 I always did like their take on the politics though. Seemed to be doing a lot of things right on that front.
21:41 Grinnz_ mp3 patents are horrendous
21:42 Grinnz_ for mp3 specifically it's a legal thing, they're a US based company
21:42 mishanti1 s/mp3 //
21:42 mishanti1 :)
21:42 vicash hurray for competition
21:42 vicash capitalism at its best
21:43 Grinnz_ when the wikipedia section on licensing is this extensive you know there's a problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Licensing.2C_ownership_and_legislation
21:44 Grinnz_ ogg is slowly and sneakily taking over though, at least for video, cause of webm and such
21:45 vicash isnt h264 the standard for html5 though ? i thought that was some big deal with not picking theora.. and that was a few years ago
21:45 Grinnz_ yeah i meant ogg vorbis
21:45 Grinnz_ theora hasnt really gone anywhere
21:45 bpmedley vicash: For browsers, mobile, set top, or ?.
21:46 vicash bpmedley: almost all new video devices come with h264 accelerators in them now
21:46 bpmedley Last I looked something like 3-4 formats needed supporting for almost complete coverage across most devices.
21:47 Grinnz_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Licensing a much less scary section
21:53 sri looks like the difference between windows home and pro is totally meh
21:54 sri just hyper-v and some enterprise management features
21:56 Grinnz_ IIRC one difference was that home cannot change the setting of automatically installing updates
21:57 sri i count that as enterprise feature ;p
21:58 Grinnz_ for me, it's yet another reason I don't want to upgrade :P
21:58 Grinnz_ as a gaming PC, not having complete control over updates and reboots is unacceptable
21:58 genio Grinnz_: Upgrade your computer so that you get it for free (once you're activated, you can roll back and then update at a later date if you want) then roll back
21:59 genio otherwise, you'll be paying for it. :/
21:59 Grinnz_ I don't plan on upgrading ever, and if I change my mind, I'll pay for it
21:59 sri it's tied to the motherboard though, how long does thst last in a gaming pc anyway?
21:59 jabberwok or preferably, refrain from feeding a beast whose every motive is to hurt you now or hurt you later
22:00 genio Grinnz_: heh. get a mac :)
22:00 Grinnz_ a few years, I just replaced mine (motherboard)
22:00 Grinnz_ only difficulty was the damn USB drivers again
22:00 Grinnz_ on the bright side I now have a spare PS/2 keyboard sitting around ...
22:00 sri think the last time i built a pc was like 2001
22:01 genio probably same here.  it's not fun for me anymore
22:01 Grinnz_ my motherboard was mostly fine, but the BIOS decided to wipe itself and was having one too many problems for me to be comfortable using it
22:01 Grinnz_ sooo now I have more USB3 ports :P
22:02 genio and no devices that require USB3?
22:03 Grinnz_ well, they're fantastic for flash drives, but the front ports are generally enough for those heh
22:04 * sri really wants an usb ssd drive
22:05 Grinnz_ also if I decide I want to upgrade to a broadwell, the new mobo is nice and ready for that
22:05 Grinnz_ but at my rate of CPu upgrades this one will probably last a few more years
22:06 BinGOs building PCs is fine as long as one remembers to make the required blood-sacrifice
22:07 * Grinnz_ has cut his hand on a really cheapo case before, does that count :P
22:07 BinGOs that's excatly it :)
22:07 BinGOs every PC I've built where I cut my hand has been fine.
22:08 Grinnz_ heh
22:08 BinGOs the one I didn't cut myself on, never worked properly.
22:08 Grinnz_ well then, you can have my old CPU cooler which had giant aluminum fins to cut your hands on
22:08 Grinnz_ especially when trying to mount it in a tiny case
22:09 BinGOs which has led me to speculate that PC manufacturers have a production line of people cutting their hands in QA
22:09 genio hmmm. the new Roots series seems to differ quite a bit from the old one
22:15 jberger jabberwok++ # ballmers at the gates
22:19 Grinnz_ genio: my hope (wrt not planning to upgrade) is that Vulkan will make linux gaming viable, eventually
22:20 Grinnz_ it's already viable, but only if you play certain games :P
22:21 Grinnz_ vulkan works for OS X too of course.
22:22 Grinnz_ (or at least it is possible to, a brief search shows that Apple hasn't stepped up to support it yet)
22:24 sri apple hasn't stepped up to do anything gaming related
22:25 sri any os x game is at least 40% slower than the windows version
22:26 Grinnz_ they have their Metal thing, which they mostly seem to be using for iOS games
22:27 sri from what i hear game devs hate metal
22:27 Grinnz_ I can't see it becoming adopted, because it's just another platform specific API like DirectX
22:27 Grinnz_ and well, they aren't microsoft
23:16 jberger Apple forces developers to use in house and otherwise unused apis, story at 6

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary