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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-06-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

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02:05 mattp go|dfish: ?
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02:31 jberger that looks like a cat found the keyboard
02:37 genio That cat loves the . key :)
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03:07 jberger it doesn't have to love the . key, it just has to stand there for a while pondering the bigger key farther over that says "return" on it
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04:14 Wmn Hi guys, is this expected to chain (effectively blocking all calls except one currently running) simultaneous async calls to the same URL in Mojo?
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04:19 Wmn http://pastebin.com/6Ms2LAFm - when i run requests to different URLs simultaneous, all works as expected, all requests are handled "simultaneous" within a loop, but when i request one URL few times, only one of requests is handled in a loop, all other requests to the same URL are waiting outside a loop until the first request is fully finished
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05:07 che-quest jberger: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-06-02#i_12594945
05:07 che-quest Mojolicious::Plugin::EPRenderer does cache inline
05:25 che-quest hi! how to perform one mojo::ua non-blocking request after another ua n-b req (mojolicious::controller context)?
05:25 preaction che-quest: use the delay helper
05:25 preaction or just nest them, whichever
05:27 che-quest yes, when i nest, then somthing wrong
05:28 preaction then put your code up on a site somewhere and show us
05:28 che-quest ok, thank you
05:42 mpapec question, when would I like to use $self->delay, and when Mojo::IOLoop->delay
05:43 mpapec $self->delay doesn't support ->catch, right?
05:44 preaction what's $self in that situation? a controller?
05:44 mpapec yes
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05:47 preaction then right, the delay gets executed as part of the delay helper
05:48 mpapec preaction: what are practical implication of this?
05:48 preaction like you said, you can't add your own catch()
05:50 mpapec so to summarize, $self->delay is shorter to write and doesn't support ->catch
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07:20 che-quest my problem on ua non-block req by req (nested) http://pastebin.com/KH3Gu562
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07:22 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vrjW4
07:22 good_news_everyon mojo/master 3987e6d Sebastian Riedel: fix typo in routing guide
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07:32 sri jberger: re stickers, i'm not sure how to show them more prominent
07:32 sri they are linked to from the top of the t-shirt shop
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07:44 batman mpapec: whenever in a controller: use $self->delay()
07:45 batman it makes sure things work as expected. read the code, it's not long: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/Mojolicious/Plugin/DefaultHelpers.pm#L80 :)
07:50 sri batman: the docs actually say what it does http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Plugin/DefaultHelpers#delay
07:53 batman sri: indeed. just thought the code could make sense, since the question was asked
08:00 che-quest $c->delay question: from step to step data not passed?
08:08 batman sure
08:09 batman either pass it with $delay->pass, store it in variable outside the delay or save it in $delay->data()
08:09 batman but lexical scoping applies as always. it's just perl :)
08:13 che-quest lexical does not require explanation
08:14 che-quest batman: thanks
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10:23 sri_ so, i assume we are all ok with not supporting these https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/966#issuecomment-223219880
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10:25 batman sri: +1
10:40 * sri closes
10:41 sri also closing this https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/964
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11:36 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vrj7m
11:36 good_news_everyon mojo/master 05c3101 Sebastian Riedel: nothing is deprecated at the moment
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11:41 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vrj77
11:41 good_news_everyon mojo/master 8c68d3f Sebastian Riedel: slightly more consistent command tests
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11:45 jberger sri: I'm OK closing that issue but i think that perhaps that regexp should exclude only all caps methods
11:46 jberger ie i don't know if we should explicitly support unicode identifiers
11:46 jberger But we might make the exclusion more targeted at what it was intended for
12:20 sri jberger: i've not seen any proposals
12:20 sri and the docs you linked to are not even correct
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13:15 jberger sri: I'm referencing this http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-06-01#i_12587026
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13:18 sri does anyone really care about that?
13:19 sri the proposal looks shitty after perltidy, so i'm giving it a -1
13:19 jberger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:20 jberger requiring a lower case letter to prevent calling a builtin which is characterized as having all uppercase letters is not exactly the same thing, that's all my point is
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13:22 jberger here are the actual identifier rules: http://perldoc.perl.org/perldata.html#Identifier-parsing
13:22 jberger (not saying we need to actually implement them)
13:24 jberger and also from http://perldoc.perl.org/perlsub.html :
13:24 jberger "Subroutines whose names are in all upper case are reserved to the Perl core, as are modules whose names are in all lower case. A subroutine in all capitals is a loosely-held convention meaning it will be called indirectly by the run-time system itself, usually due to a triggered event. Subroutines whose name start with a left parenthesis are also reserved the same way."
13:25 jberger funny that PAUSE doesn't enforce "modules whose names are in all lower case [are reserved to the Perl core]"
13:26 jberger we have ojo of course
13:26 jberger and other exist, including our former pumpking who has rjbs.pm
13:27 jberger I've always been a little bit miffed that "import" isn't spelled "IMPORT"
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13:27 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/voef3
13:27 good_news_everyon mojo/master a57a077 Sebastian Riedel: match hidden methods a little faster
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13:28 jberger sri++
13:29 sri it's a tiny bit faster and shorter, so meh, might as well
13:29 jberger indeed
13:29 jberger has anyone ever figure out why "Subroutines whose name start with a left parenthesis are also reserved the same way" ?
13:29 sri what was (?aa)
13:29 sri ?
13:30 jberger hunh?
13:30 sri (?aa) (?!\d) \w+ /x
13:30 sri oop, missing /
13:30 sri argh
13:30 sri +s
13:30 sri you linked to that regex for identifiers
13:30 sri / (?aa) (?!\d) \w+ /x
13:30 jberger oh, /me looks
13:31 jberger not sure
13:31 * jberger digs
13:32 jberger http://perldoc.perl.org/perlreref.html#OPERATORS
13:32 sri it's very very warm here today, my brain is not working correctly
13:32 jberger "aa (two a's) also /i matches exclude ASCII/non-ASCII"
13:32 * sri melts
13:32 jberger I don't know what that MEANS though :P
13:32 sri donate fans!
13:32 * jberger throws a snowball at sri
13:33 sri \o/
13:33 jberger ah, that should be "restrict \d, \s, \w and [:posix:] to match ASCII only, aa (two a's) also /i matches exclude ASCII/non-ASCII"
13:36 jberger anyway, that regex doesn't matter much for us because it is only valid when not under use utf8
13:37 sri i didn't even catch that
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13:39 sri the macbook just doesn't care about the temperature, which is funny, because the macbook air used to spin up the fans even while idle during hot weather
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13:48 sri damn, that Mojo::Base regex has been around for a long long long time https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/dbe4371d8565323f9b8fff88ab26b19a106e0022#diff-b9415bf02cb61707bcfa1aa8ad876397L79
13:49 sri curious nobody ever cared about unicode accessors
13:56 jberger that one is different too, it can have unicode accessors, it just cannot START with a unicode character
13:57 jberger and in a related story, this just crossed @cpan_new https://metacpan.org/source/TRIZEN/Perl-Tokenizer-0.04/lib/Perl/Tokenizer.pm
13:57 jberger yikes
14:01 jberger anyway for attributes (if we care) I suspect that /^(?!\d)\w+/ is probably good enough
14:01 jberger but we could ask in say #p5p too
14:01 jberger I still don't understand (?aa)
14:02 jberger and I still don't completely grok the unicode implication afterwards
14:04 jberger "there are identifiers only legal under "use utf8" , and vice-versa, for example the identifier $état is legal under "use utf8" , but is otherwise considered to be the single character variable $é followed by the bareword "tat" , the combination of which is a syntax error."
14:06 sri :S
14:07 jberger perl is hard, lets go shopping
14:08 Grinnz [09:29:45] <jberger> has anyone ever figure out why "Subroutines whose name start with a left parenthesis are also reserved the same way" ?
14:08 Grinnz the internal implementation of overloading
14:08 jberger Grinnz: really?! ugh
14:09 jberger I guess you have to store the conversion callback somewhere in the symbol table
14:09 jberger that's as good of a "place" as any
14:10 jberger perl -MMojo::DOM -E 'say for grep { /^\(/ } keys %Mojo::DOM::'
14:10 jberger heh
14:50 VVelox hmm... $c->render(template=>'css', md => 'text/css');  Any idea why that is still returning text/html as the mime type?
14:51 VVelox wait
14:51 VVelox n/m
14:52 VVelox format=>'css'   :3
14:53 jberger yup
14:53 jberger what is "md" ?
14:53 VVelox from like $app->types->type(md => 'text/markdown');
14:54 Grinnz_ md is the format for text/markdown specifically
14:54 Grinnz_ like css for text/css
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14:59 jberger you have to add a hook to process "magic" stash values if you want to add them
14:59 jberger it is documented somewhere, /me looks
15:00 jberger http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Rendering#Adding-a-handler-to-generate-binary-data
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16:06 * sri yawns
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17:49 mpapec batman: sri: tnx!
17:49 mpapec so when I'm in websocket I want to avoid error reply
17:49 mpapec to the client
17:51 mpapec jberger: return !!(($h->{$method} || $method =~ /^_/) && $method !~ /[a-z]/);
17:53 * mpapec likes bikeshedding :)
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18:21 jberger mpapec: ?
18:21 jberger that is more or less what we just got rid of
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18:39 sri oh wow, i didn't realize razer already did physical oled keys http://cdn.gsmarena.com/pics/11/08/razer-blade/gsmarena_003.jpg
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18:40 sri that's so much cooler than an oled bar
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20:10 sri omg
20:10 nic ?
20:10 sri i'm so glad right now we got rid of the "/(((foo)))" placeholder syntax
20:10 sri apparently that's called nazi parentheses on twitter now
20:11 nic oh I do love 'nazi' being used as an everyday adjective... by people who have little knowledge of what it meant
20:12 Grinnz_ actual nazi, in this case, it's something about identifying the jewish "agenda"
20:12 jberger how did it get that name?!
20:12 sri literal nazis
20:12 sri https://mic.com/articles/144228/echoes-exposed-the-secret-symbol-neo-nazis-use-to-target-jews-online
20:14 nic omg, that's so much worse than what I was guessing
20:14 sri yea
20:15 jberger I ... I ...
20:15 Grinnz_ it was a chrome extension but got removed for hate speech
20:15 Grinnz_ amazing that people still think this way
20:16 jberger people who think that their own kind is better, though they themselves have done nothing to earn that
20:17 * jberger holds back rage
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20:18 jberger merrr dis country is great becawse the white peple builded it. Imma go drink som beer
20:18 jberger Murica
20:18 * jberger puts head down
20:18 VVelox huh?
20:19 VVelox a bit of a odd note to come into this channel on
20:19 jberger haha
20:19 jberger yeah, it is a bit strange
20:19 sri you gorgot the sarcasm tags
20:19 sri s/g/f/
20:19 jberger http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-06-03#i_12602687
20:19 bpmedley VVelox: welcome to #mojo; web with sprinkles
20:19 jberger I think they were strongly implied
20:20 VVelox toad flavored sprinkles, I hear
20:20 jberger VVelox: just bemoaning the state of ignorant people, by mocking them :-P
20:20 VVelox yay!
20:20 VVelox this election cycle is so fucked with crazy on both sides... more so than usual :(
20:21 sri it's getting rather shitty in germany too
20:21 jberger yeah, even the Bernie bros are starting to irk me and I'm a Bernie supporter myself
20:21 bpmedley We need AI politics
20:21 Grinnz_ why bother, just skip to the matrix :D
20:22 sri can't wait for the next episode of person of interest
20:22 sri may the war of the AIs begin
20:22 jberger awww, Grinnz_ doesn't thinks he's not already in the matrix
20:22 VVelox nah, we need a party based around a solid well rounded set of ideals and policies... instead of a handful of minor issues that amount to nothing by themselves
20:22 jberger or something like that
20:22 Grinnz_ VVelox: "different parties"? impossible
20:22 * jberger hands Grinnz_ a blue pill
20:23 VVelox sure it is, we are entering a state of great upheaval soon... the question is if it can be hijacked into doing anything useful
20:25 Grinnz_ yeah, could be interesting
20:25 Grinnz_ just hope the country survives it :P
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20:40 sri would be really nice if you could keep your country going for a little longer... at least until game of thrones is over
20:41 Grinnz_ lol
20:46 cfedde United States of Trump!
20:48 jberger sri: hahahaha
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21:09 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih tagged v6.63 at 47cd3b0: https://git.io/vovCp
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21:11 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vovWO
21:11 good_news_everyon mojo/master f6ba869 Sebastian Riedel: bump version
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21:33 jberger postgres arrays are amazoing
21:33 jberger you know, I'm not even going to correct that
21:33 jberger they are amazoing
21:39 bpmedley If you're looking for a JS widget and app library (framework) that complements Mojo and Postgres, then Kendo UI is all the awesome.  I've never been more excited about web work with Mojolicious/Modern Perl.
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22:00 bpmedley In fact, I've almost given up on doing any native mobile that has any significance.  Anyone else have similar feelings against native mobile lately?
22:01 jberger I prefer doing HTML5 as a platform abstraction
22:01 jberger but I know tempire likes doing iOS dev
22:01 jberger natively
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22:15 jberger I've liked working with Vue.js lately myself
22:15 jberger I just use it with bootstrap
22:17 * batman use vuejs and materializecss (or bootstrap)
22:18 sri you sound like a bunch of hipsters right now ;p
22:18 bpmedley How is vuejs?  What does that buy you?
22:18 Grinnz_ web 2.0!
22:23 batman bpmedley: it buys me food and beer.
22:24 bpmedley That's awesome.  What makes the lib unique?
22:24 jberger that materialize library was weird
22:24 jberger it didn't play well with reactive frameworks, you had to call something when things changed in order for it to reprocess
22:25 batman bpmedley: nothing really. it's like riot or react
22:25 sri speaking of js frameworks, looks like rails wants to drop jquery https://github.com/rails/rails/issues/25208
22:25 jberger it is really easy to use and has really good documentation (vue)
22:25 sri that is a hell of a lot of emojis
22:26 jberger actually when I saw that you had updated jquery in a recent release I wondered how much of it couldn't be vanilla js now
22:26 jberger it is basically just for the exception page right?
22:26 batman bpmedley: i think vuejs is a lot easier to write than react and it's more mature than riot.
22:26 batman but you can't run it on old browsers
22:27 jberger screw old browsers :D
22:27 jberger (I can say that, I'm working on an internal project)
22:27 sri also for mojolicious.org, menubar offset and stuff
22:27 bpmedley Gogo gadget web tv
22:27 jberger sri: ah, right
22:28 batman bpmedley: vuejs simply doesn't work for ie8 because of how it watches attributes
22:28 jberger who was it that was telling a story about someone having to support a webtv?
22:28 jberger because the CEO of whatever company used one still
22:28 bpmedley batman: Gaw, the bane of IE..
22:28 batman "Vue.js does not support IE8 and below, because Vue.js uses ECMAScript 5 features that are un-shimmable in IE8. However Vue.js supports all ECMAScript 5 compliant browsers."
22:28 sri i think dropping jquery is one of those things you do when you have unlimited resources ;p
22:28 jberger yeah, there is no need
22:29 jberger I was just kinda curious and then you happened to mention it
22:29 bpmedley In other news, we are removing the requirement of pointers in C.  We will code for all the things..
22:29 batman bpmedley: not really... all browsers evolve, so can't really blame an old browser for not having the correct support
22:29 bpmedley I agree, to a point.  Some of IE's decisions are less than stellar.
22:30 bpmedley In older versions.  I'd have to google for anything specific.
22:30 sri just like that abstraction tweet recently https://twitter.com/AFresh1/status/737430433948803072
22:30 batman sure. but watching an object change obj.bar is a relatively new feature
22:30 sri i'd totally do that if i had more time to work on mojolicious
22:30 bpmedley batman: That makes sense.
22:30 sri but it's just not necessary
22:31 batman the bad thing about ie8 is that it lacks auto upgrade ;)
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22:31 sri i'm sure we could do a lot of cool things with an asgi layer
22:35 jberger I've been thinking that a mojo module implementing the socket.io protocol might be cool
22:35 jberger I'm not sure what that would look like yet
22:35 jberger but it might help with some of the higher level messaging stuff
22:37 sri that is another area i would love to do more work on
22:38 sri the presence stuff in phoenix framework is also cool
22:40 jberger I might tinker with that a little over the weekend
22:40 jberger but I also have to get ready for having a guest over \o/
22:42 * jberger lights the bat signal
22:49 batman jberger: takes some time for light to travel from us to no... But I will act upon the signal soon;)
22:55 sri ohoh, we are getting realy close to mojolicious 6.66
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23:21 jberger this cannot really be considered a protocol definition can it? https://github.com/socketio/socket.io-protocol
23:26 sri i thought the real problem we wanted to solve was multiplexing
23:27 sri all the other stuff seems rather unnecessary
23:30 jberger looks like it has multiplexing
23:30 jberger or claims to
23:30 jberger I really don't know much about it
23:31 sri think we said multiplexing, transparent json encoding/decoding, and auto-reconnect
23:32 sri now that i've seen phoenix i'm kinda curious how they've done their presence feature
23:32 sri imagine most apps actually want presence
23:34 jberger I think one thing going for socket.io is that there are browser-side libraries that already know about it
23:34 jberger but I'm generally "whatever works" on this front
23:35 sri socket.io has this node.js smell to it, and doesn't feel like a stable foundation ;p
23:36 jberger with a spec document like this, I think I agree
23:36 sri haha, right

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