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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-06-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sri ohoh, and hurry up, it looks like the prices are dropping again!
00:00 dave cause I said that on a public chat no doubt
00:04 sri :o
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01:30 tempire I had no idea http2 supported push
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01:43 sri the topic has only come up like a dozen times here ;p
01:49 sri actually another use for Link headers :)
01:50 sri some reverse proxy servers have started to use Link headers for getting information about related resources that can be pushed together
02:16 sri argh, i might just close the t-shirt shop :(
02:17 sri looking through my records, it turns out spreadshirt has scammed me the last few payment cycles
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02:34 sri yea, they scammed me out of 30% over the last 6 months it seems :(
02:36 orev they have a minimum fee or something depending on number of orders?  unless that is a really shady place...
02:36 sri they did pay me, it's just missing 30% every time
02:37 sri before it was all fine for like 2 years
02:38 sri they literally mailed me how much they would pay every time, and then payed 30% on paypal
02:39 sri *+less
02:40 sri honestly, since they changed their commisson system things did get pretty shady
02:41 sri it used to be that you set your own price and decide how much you want, but then they just switched to making their own prices with bonuses for volume
02:42 sri but that's a different topic
02:43 sri dealing with this shit is a huge waste of time, and i'm basically losing money fighting with their support
02:44 sri i'll sleep on it... but odds are i'll stop making perl shirts
02:44 sri not worth the trouble
02:46 jberger Is there a different provider? Cafepress was the normal one
02:46 jberger No idea what their pricing/ quality is
02:56 Phil21 quality is shit on cafeexpress
02:56 Phil21 but I assume it's similar to all the print-on-demand stuff
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06:29 marcus *yawn*
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07:44 mpapec I would like to use my "log" helper, and tell default logger to use my instance of Mojo::Log
07:44 mpapec https://gist.github.com/mpapec/5da2c60f5427da016023c3c105148f15
07:45 mpapec but everything goes to stderr, not file (morbo)
07:58 mpapec it does work, nevermind
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09:38 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-AdditionalValidationChecks-0.14 by RENEEB https://metacpan.org/release/RENEEB/Mojolicious-Plugin-AdditionalValidationChecks-0.14
09:40 nic sri: (this is to check my understanding as much as anything)  https://github.com/kraih/minion/blob/master/lib/Minion/Backend/Pg.pm#L136
09:41 nic The comment says "Old jobs with no unresolved dependencies"
09:41 nic I'm wondering if it should say instead 'Old jobs with no unfinished dependents'  (or 'children' if that's the term you're using)
09:42 nic "unresolved dependencies" makes me think 'non-ready parents'
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11:39 icjs hello! can i do something like Moose roles to Mojolicious::Controller classes?
11:40 nic icjs: Take a look at Role::Tiny
11:44 icjs nic, thanks - i'm using Moose::Role but the $self object in the Mojo::Controller doesn find the method i'm bringing in, is this because Moose doesn't play nice with Mojo and Role::Tiny does?
11:44 nic that's not what I've heard  [I've no personal experience]
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11:46 nic icjs: Have you considered/tried defining a subclass of Mojolicious::Controller and having your controller be a subclass of that?
11:46 nic (chances are you've already considered that and ruled it out)
11:48 icjs nic, uh nope
11:54 icjs nic, sounds like too much for what i want, i think i'll just create a normall moose class and have that use'd by my mojo controller
11:56 nic sounds sensible
11:57 sri jberger/Phil21: spreadshirt was the one provider that also had great quality prints
11:58 coolo what interface to memcached are you recommending? CHI?
12:18 diegok icjs: AFAIK, you can only consume Moose roles into Moose classes. We use subclasses when we need to reuse controller behaviour as nic have suggested, but I can see where roles are a better fit, in that case you should try Role::Tiny :-)
12:19 icjs diegok, yep, i understand now - thanks :) i have taken the Moose class appraoch and it's working well so far
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12:27 diegok icjs: good :)
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14:10 bpmedley jberger: did you see Mint UI?
14:20 genio Wasn't there something nefarious with Mint Linux not too long ago?
14:20 * genio googles
14:22 jberger bpmedley: ?
14:23 bpmedley It's some mobile ui wodgets for vue
14:23 jberger nice, thanks for sharing that
14:45 sri yea, spreadshirt is sketchy as hell, now they're telling me they are keeping 30% for taxes
14:46 jberger I mean, the US is bad for taxes at times, but 30%, ...
14:46 jberger that sounds like a lot
14:47 jberger also, did that mean that they didn't have any tax factored in before?
14:47 sri and only started doing it a few months ago
14:47 jberger hahahah, there's a theory in there: they weren't collecting taxes before, someone caught on and now they are trying to make up a huge tax shortfall :-P
14:48 vicash how does TeeSpring do it ?
14:48 sri i'm actually paying taxes in germany too on royalties
14:55 sri all this trouble for $10 a month
14:56 sri it would be almost cheaper not to take a commission at all, since i have to pay my tax guy for dealing with this shit too
14:58 sri selling swag sucks when you don't sell enough
14:59 jberger :(
15:15 marcus Free shirts !
15:15 Zen \o/
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15:41 vicash maybe training is the way to go.. training costs can be higher and you can make money.. the training course has to be designed only once, maybe once a year..
15:42 vicash interesting training ideas would be something like building a search engine with Mojo using Elastic Search and Mojo.. things like that which are difficult to do
15:47 sri tempire tried that route and it didn't work out
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15:48 sri and he was actually good at training
15:50 sri maybe it's just me, but i feel like the perl community is paralyzed right now
15:51 sri nobody wants to invest into the future of perl, everybody is scared
15:51 vicash that sounds bad.. like a self fulfilling prophecy
15:51 sri only thing people pay for anymore is consulting
15:52 sri and it's not like the perl community is shrinking or anything, it's just fear
15:52 sri at least that's my impression
15:53 bpmedley I'd pay for "indie" level mojo support
15:53 bpmedley Like a pro sidekiq
15:53 sri might also have something to do with perl6, i imagine to many companies it might look like a waste to invest in anything perl5
15:54 vicash more likely it is to do with new programmers learning python out of school and then continuiing to use that since it solves their problem
15:55 sri vicash: growth is a different topic
15:55 sri i'm talking about companies already invested in the eco system
15:55 vicash ok i get it now
15:56 sri like craigslist or booking
15:56 sri craigslist is actually a good example, since they employ timtoady to work om perl6
15:56 vicash are there any big companies using Mojo ?
15:57 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Projects-and-Companies-using-Mojolicious#companies
15:59 sri and i don't mean mojolicious specifically, or can you name another bigger perl project that does get supported by a company?
16:00 vicash i have no idea.. i only went to one YAPC last year and saw some sponsors.. i believe they use perl in a big way and that's why they sponsored.... most of them are web hosting companies
16:01 sri recently someone wanted to pay me to work on a rust project, that was weird...
16:02 Vandal game?
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17:05 sri not a game
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19:50 sri allright, the next few days i only want to see upbeat discussion here ;p
19:50 sri +s
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19:51 genio heh.  Can we discuss terrible things cheery ascii art and emoji? \o/
19:52 * genio is kidding, obviously
19:52 * sri bans genio!
19:52 * genio lowers his head in shame
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19:54 sri beatings will continue until moral improves!
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19:55 bpmedley Anyone working on side projects for fun?
19:55 jberger I'm still tinkering with the Multiplexer
19:55 bpmedley Or, cool work projects?
19:55 genio 🤕
19:56 jberger that one is kinda both actually
19:56 bpmedley Cool.  Are you modeling after any existing protocols?
19:57 jberger well kinda
19:57 jberger it is this thing proposed by sockjs
19:58 jberger I'm going to have to extend it it looks like
19:58 jberger but the fundamental concept is dead simple
19:58 bpmedley Is the protocol extensible?
19:58 jberger here is their repo: https://github.com/sockjs/websocket-multiplex
19:58 jberger and the linked article in the readme is really worth a read
19:58 jberger the protocol is somewhat extensible
19:59 jberger but the more important thing is that the client api is defined to be the same api as websocket
19:59 jberger which is really handy
20:00 bpmedley https://personaltxt.com is one of my projects..
20:01 sri ohohoh
20:01 sri lets have a fight
20:01 sri dancer dev firing shots! https://twitter.com/albertovski/status/743890221230596096
20:01 punter bpmedley, I'm making a forum website: http://baza.gr (even though it's in greek)
20:02 jberger sri: so the upbeat thing is over then?
20:02 jberger :-P
20:02 genio haha
20:02 bpmedley punter++ # will the forum be real time via websockets?
20:03 punter bpmedley, no this one won't be realtime. A different one I'm planning in the long term will be.
20:03 bpmedley Theres room in that market for a real-time forum, i feel..
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20:04 bpmedley Also, making the forum hostable by adding a div would be sweet..
20:04 punter could replace the comments section in blog stories
20:04 Grinnz_ wonder if vbulletin has become non terrible yet...
20:05 punter bpmedley, would you be interested in working on such a realtime forum?
20:05 punter embeddable
20:05 bpmedley punter: lots of opportunity!
20:05 Grinnz_ only forums i use recently are blizzards, and as far as i can tell those are inhouse (and a bit anemic)
20:07 bpmedley punter: i'll msg you
20:07 punter bpmedley, you have my email
20:07 Phil21 having hosting many forums, custom and OSS/commerical... it's almost all PHP
20:07 punter oh, priv ok
20:07 Phil21 s/hosting/hosted/
20:10 Grinnz_ Phil21: aye, and almost always deployed with the settings that make mysql errors show up in the browser :)
20:10 Phil21 phpbb, aka alternate remote shell
20:10 Phil21 yeah, it was all a giant pita to keep cludged together for the high traffic stuff
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20:16 irctc023 hi, ive built an API using mojo and wondered if anyone has a strategy for combating hypnotoad worker memory growth due to large payloads (sometimes almost 1gb or more in size)? Over time workers can grow to consume several gigs and eventually my servers run out of memory. One approach I thought might work is to fork per request, but not sure how
20:17 sri by default huge uploads get streamed into files and don't go into memory
20:18 irctc023 its not uploads.. im talking about the payload we render as a response.. the API queries a DB and creates a very large response (depending on the query)
20:19 irctc023 i wasnt very clear initially sorry! the payloads are the rendered response we create to client
20:19 Grinnz_ workers are automatically restarted after a certain number of requests, you can adjust that with https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Server::Hypnotoad#accepts -- you can also use Mojo::IOLoop::ForkCall to run something in a fork, but it has to be sent back to the parent to render so that might not help anyway
20:19 jberger if the server runs out of memory, forking isn't going to help you
20:21 irctc023 @Grinnz_ i tried forkcall but cant because as you mentioned I need to return the data to the parent for rendering (unless theres a way to render from the child, but I dont think so)
20:21 Grinnz_ it can, if the memory usage is in a fork and that fork exits afterward the parent process doesn't have the increase in memory usage that persists
20:21 irctc023 @jberger the server runs out of memory after many, many requests and hypnotoad worker growth over time
20:21 jberger then I suggest as Grinnz_ does to use accepts
20:22 irctc023 ok, how does that work? after so many accepts the worker will exit?
20:22 jberger and forkcall can send back a payload to the parent, but that defeats the purpose
20:22 Grinnz_ yes, and the manager starts a new worker
20:23 Grinnz_ it does this by default, but the default is 10000
20:23 irctc023 makes sense.. ill give it a go
20:31 jberger I still think that the memory should get ... if not reclaimed ... reused by the process though right?
20:31 jberger sounds like you have a leak
20:31 jberger and it matters because the leak contains a large memory footprint
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20:35 irctc023 i dont think its a leak (or at least I've tried to eliminate any potential for one) and ive never seen perl do a good job of releasing memory. Try creating a perl object from a million DB rows, then destroy the object to see that it doesn't get reclaimed.
20:36 irctc023 Also, even if my process CAN re-use memory, its still going to eventually use all memory on the box
20:36 Grinnz_ theoretically, perl should reuse it if you create another object, though
20:37 irctc023 yes, its re-usable by the current worker, but eventually I run out of memory..
20:38 sri wouldn't you run out of memory anyway if by chance all workers prepare a huge response at the same time?
20:38 sri even if perl could release it all afterwards
20:38 sri sounds like your resource planning is off
20:39 irctc023 its possible yes
20:39 irctc023 im working on a websocket version that will stream rows and hopefully will reduce the size of whats actively in memory..
20:39 sri yea, find a way to stream data
20:40 sri even chunked encoding might do
20:40 sri http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Rendering#Streaming
20:41 irctc023 yeah ill give that a look as well
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21:04 sri looks like next week is the big steam summer sale :o
21:04 * sri sees his wallet run away screaming
21:05 Grinnz_ i have overwatch now, i cant justify buying new games i wont play :P
21:05 sri i should maybe finally get skyrim
21:06 * jberger just got a GearVR
21:06 * jberger needs to get some games for it
21:06 jberger came free with the S7 but I had to wait ages for it to arrive
21:06 sri on steam i only ever see the oculus icon on games
21:06 sri ah
21:07 jberger GearVR is oculus software but samsung hardware
21:07 sri elite dangerous with oculus has to be brilliant
21:07 Grinnz_ yeah im sure that would be fun
21:07 jberger oh, good call, I remember looking at that
21:07 Grinnz_ wonder if Eve Valkyrie is out yet
21:08 Grinnz_ hmm still no release date, but to be released on the vive
21:08 Grinnz_ oh, was released on the rift in march
21:10 jberger I also need to get myself a bluetooth controller
21:11 sri oculus ships the xbox one i think
21:12 sri there wrere stories that they had to send their staff out to raid retail stores because they couldn't buy enough xbox controllers any other way :)
21:18 mrallen1 my rift is still in the box :P
21:18 mrallen1 need to set it up this weekend
21:21 Grinnz_ it's strange, I can find a bunch of announcements and trailers for Eve Valkyrie launching with the rift, but i dont see any reviews or gameplay
21:23 Grinnz_ http://www.pcgamer.com/eve-valkyrie-review/ looks like it's a bit intense, and also shallow gameplay
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22:01 sri eve doesn't seem very tempting, i'm a little tired of endless grind MMOs
22:02 Grinnz_ i tend to just resubscribe for a month or two every so often, until i get bored again
22:02 Grinnz_ Valkyrie is kind of unrelated to the mmo part though
22:02 Grinnz_ kinda like dust is mostly a different game
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22:24 dave has anyone tried to use COPY in postgres through Mojo::Pg?
22:33 lluad I haven't, but you can get the underlying DBD::Pg handle from Mojo::Pg, and COPY with that is fairly simple. Have you tried it and are seeing problems, or just asking?
22:36 dave was just asking
22:36 dave before I try it and see problems :D
22:42 dave didn't want anything to get out of sync or something like that...and not surprisingly it Just Works.
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23:18 jberger <3 postgres
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