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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-07-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 karjala sri: Have you managed to automatically identify your nick at nickserv on this server? the command /ns is invalid here, yet that's what irccloud types.
00:02 karjala instead of /msg nickserv
00:02 sri karjala: irccloud figured it out for me, there's a nickserv password field, it just worked
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00:23 karjala I was told from irccloud support channel that irccloud only sends /ns commands. It's possible that you haven't identified your nickname.
00:23 karjala sri
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00:26 sri karjala: you're right actually
00:26 sri no idea how i got into #mojo-core ;p
00:27 karjala you can type the command out in full in the "commmands to run on connect" textarea
00:27 karjala I got there too
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00:55 sri karjala: what command did you use?
00:56 karjala /msg nickserv identify pencil
00:56 karjala I'm punter by the way, this is my second nickname
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00:57 sri turns out i just had a typo :)
00:57 Grinnz unless it delays join until the response from nickserv, it wont be fast enough for joining channels (i have this problem on freenode, and use their SASL auth to avoid it)
00:57 Grinnz but if you dont have registration-restricted channels its not a problem
00:58 sri there's a /wait command it seems, not sure if that's irccloud specific
00:59 sri it's crazy just how comfortable irccloud is on an android phone
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01:34 sri and it's basically a web app in a small native wrapper
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03:59 jberger I've always been comfortable with convos on the phone too though
04:10 sri that's true, me too
04:10 ningu I have never used irc on my phone
04:10 ningu maybe I should
04:11 sri it's fun for catching up, not so much for typing imo
04:12 ningu I do use slack
04:12 ningu but slack remembers stuff
04:13 ningu I suppose that's the main thing irc is missing, is some sort of persistent (server-side) state
04:14 sri irccloud adds that for irc
04:14 ningu yeah, I figured
04:14 ningu but it's not the actual irc server I assume but just a persistent client logged in
04:15 ningu I could do like some people still do and keep it running in a screen session for months and brag about how long it was since I connected
04:16 sri sucks on phones though
04:22 sri kinda surprising how the mojo repo on github can get 715 views per day
04:33 sri interesting, stack overflow has a salary calculator now Oo http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2016/07/salary-transparency/
04:36 sri the numbers seem insane though
04:38 sri the average salary for a senior developer in germany is 67000 euros according to glassdoor at the moment, and the base salary for a junior developer on stack overflow is already 77000 euros
04:44 sri hmm, i guess the number might be very us specific, to account for the usual college debt of junior devs
04:45 sri but still
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04:56 * dabudabu is getting about 36000 euros in Japan
04:57 dabudabu Over four million yen! sounds better
05:02 Jonis /w 4
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07:52 Jonis do any of the perl syntax plugins have support for subroutine signatures?
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08:41 mib_rl2xm1 hi, I have a question about sessions in mojolicious: when does the session effectively get deleted, if I set $c->session(expires => 1) ? If I write "say STDERR Dumper($c->session)", the data is still there, with expires set to 1.
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08:51 coolo sri: ha, I just found out what I need to be eligable for a referral bonus. I just need to sell the birth rights of your 2 first born :)
08:51 che-quest mib_rl2xm1: the session will removed by browser
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08:53 mib_rl2xm1 che-quest: so in my case, it might be better to "empty" the session hash instead of setting the expires to 1
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08:56 nic expires defines when the cookie stops being accepted as valid by mojolicious (for example, do I treat this user as being logged in?)
08:56 nic if you don't want anyone to see what was inside the cookie, perhaps it shouldn't be in the cookie (in its current form)
09:00 mib_rl2xm1 I have some data stored in the DB and a key/id to find the data in the session. If the user goes to a specific url, the data should be cleared and initialized again. Including the "data_id" in the session. I thought expires would be the way to go, but perhaps it is better to just delete only the key and go on with the same session.
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09:04 che-quest mib_rl2xm1: no expires, simply redefine session key
09:06 mib_rl2xm1 che-quest: sounds good. I'll try. thanks!
09:07 nic yes, the data within a session can change on every req/res cycle if you like
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09:47 mishanti1 Quick question: the morbo-script has /usr/bin/perl in it's shebang, instead of just perl. Is this intentional, and if so what is the reason for not just using 'perl' and let the users env decide which perl to favor?
09:48 pink_mist mishanti1: just "perl" in a shebang doesn't work. having that is a signal for the build tools to change the shebang to the appropriate perl. having /usr/bin/perl works the exact same way though. it also signals that.
09:49 mishanti1 pink_mist: I see. So what is the recommended way of making sure the system perl is never called?
09:49 nic mishanti1: Did you install it via cpanm?
09:49 mishanti1 nic: yes.
09:49 nic Is your cpanm installed via system perl?
09:50 mishanti1 nic: Installed via plenv.
09:50 pink_mist is the cpanm binary you used actually the plenv cpanm binary, or did you happen to accidentally use the system binary?
09:51 mishanti1 pink_mist: cpanm binary. How so?
09:51 nic one recommendation is _never_ have any cpanm installed for system perl
09:51 mishanti1 I mean plenv binary
09:51 pink_mist what I'm trying to get at is: if your installed morbo script uses /usr/bin/perl as its shebang, that means it _was installed for that specific perl_
09:52 mishanti1 Gah, plenv-binary => cpanm installed with plenv. Sorry for the confusion.
09:52 mishanti1 pink_mist: I see. I'll do some more digging. I might have something wonky in this setup then. Thank you.
09:52 nic mishanti1: what we're getting at is: open a fresh shell, do whatever setup you use for accessing non-system perl, check your env, then reinstall Mojolicious
09:53 pink_mist mishanti1: in fact, as you can see here: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/script/morbo#L1 ... before it is installed it has just perl as its shebang
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09:53 jkramer Ahoy
09:53 mishanti1 nic , pink_mist : I'll do more digging. Have probably fat-fingered something. Thanks for helping out.
09:54 nic mishanti1: Not fixing it now means getting very strange problems when using binary modules (eg IO::Socket::SSL)
09:55 jkramer Are the delay objects that are passed to steps as first argument always the same reference-wise (in a single Mojo::IOLoop->delay step sequence)?
09:55 mishanti1 nic: I am trying to fix it. :)
10:04 dotan jkramer: it should be the same delay object that owns the steps
10:11 jkramer Ok, thanks
10:23 Jonis -w 4
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11:31 orev in a lite app, are there any provisions to use a different public folder depending on the app mode?  I want some files to be different (like images) when running in dev mode to be able to indicate that?
11:32 nic yes
11:33 nic @{app->static->paths} = app->home->rel_dir('www') if app->mode eq 'development';
11:35 nic maybe your dev dir contains just a subset of 'overrides' in which case you should rather unshift
11:35 nic unshift @{...->paths}, app->home->rel_dir(...) if ...
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11:54 karjala If sri worked for Booking.com, maybe they'd adopt Mojolicious and then all of us could find jobs there as well.
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12:00 Jonis was there any way to get decent syntax highlighting for signatures?
12:01 nic Did you ask in #perl-help?
12:01 Jonis ah, no
12:01 Jonis did now :)
12:01 Jonis forgot to mention vim
12:02 karjala Jonis: I've done it
12:02 Jonis oh, guess I should get better at google
12:02 karjala if you still need need help, ask me
12:02 Jonis let perl_sub_signatures = 1 when using vim-perl
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12:03 karjala ues
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12:03 mpapec Vandal++
12:03 mpapec now, is there some significant gains in code: https://gist.github.com/mpapec/69e01fd9afeff73e0722e2f6bd4f59cc
12:04 mpapec s/is/are/
12:04 mpapec that is from Mojo::UserAgent
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12:05 karjala $options{tls} becomes true/false in the first case, while becomes equal to $proto in the second case
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12:06 mpapec karjala, tnx, I'll make a change
12:06 Vandal mpapec, ,
12:06 Vandal mpapec, ?
12:08 mpapec karjala: made a change\
12:10 mpapec Vandal: oh, I was referring to two day old conversation but didn't notice at once
12:10 mpapec http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/2016-07-26#i_12908050
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15:11 sri karjala: from what i hear booking.com is not a particularly good employer
15:11 cpan_mojo Mojolicious-Plugin-XML-LX-0.03 by RSHADOW https://metacpan.org/release/RSHADOW/Mojolicious-Plugin-XML-LX-0.03
15:11 sri 400 perl programmers working in a bullpen, below market pay... and so on
15:12 sri no remote, everyone has to relocate to amsterdam
15:12 nicomen unfortunately we already hired half of the mojo team, or else I'd ask my bosses ;)
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15:27 sri heh
15:27 cpan_mojo Mojo-UserAgent-Mockable-1.41 by POPEFELIX https://metacpan.org/release/POPEFELIX/Mojo-UserAgent-Mockable-1.41
15:28 sri it's funny, i guess this year someone could have hired almost the entire mojo core team
15:29 jberger most of us have moved or will move jobs this year
15:31 pink_mist if only some company that wanted http2 support in mojo had actually done that :P
15:32 nic nicomen: You say that as if it was a bad experience :D
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15:33 nicomen not at all
15:34 nicomen but you not to think about the bus factor ;)
15:34 nicomen not = need
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15:36 nic you mean not having the whole royal family on the same jet?
15:36 nicomen yeah ;)
15:37 PopeFelix Well, if any of the Mojo team are looking to change jobs, my outfit, Broadbean, might be interested.
15:38 nicomen PopeFelix: https://twitter.com/kraih/status/757988956906594304
15:39 PopeFelix sri, which side of the Atlantic are you on?
15:39 sri i'm in germany
15:39 PopeFelix OK. Let me forward that on to our UK people.
15:40 nic heh, you don't want to be earning GBP over the next few years :/
15:40 sri they'll tell you something about the brexit
15:41 sri so far i've not been contacted by a single uk company
15:42 nic they're all battoning the hatches in prep for the coming military coup
15:42 sri lots from the netherlands though, have a feeling the brexit might turn netherlands into the eu tech hub
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15:43 nic could be.  Berlin is certainly taking the startup pole position, with Frankfurt the obvious capital for capital
15:45 sri you don't want to be living in frankfurt
15:46 nic no, and I don't really want to be working in finance if I can help it :)
15:46 * PopeFelix shrugs.
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15:54 sri reminds me that i need to go look for a smaller server to host mojolicious.org
15:59 jberger sri: which reminds me I need to ask around here
15:59 jberger if we happen to not have anything (which I think we should) I had a scaleway server for like $3/mo
15:59 sri right, if anyone works for a hoster that would be willing to donate a server that would be awesome
16:01 sri wonder which > $5 hoster is the best though
16:01 sri umm
16:01 sri < $5
16:01 sri ;p
16:10 Triskelion hi sri, i'm musing around templating in mojo::lite and how to indent everything in a clever way, can you take a look at that? http://pastie.org/pastes/10921919/text
16:11 Triskelion oh %= include 'content' must be %= include 'head' btw
16:15 a6502 sri: what 'size' of server are you looking for? cpus/mem/storagewise?
16:27 batman jberger: i thought you had all the servers :)
16:28 jberger we have tons, I'm not sure what I have on that scale (small) that I can give away
16:28 jberger I expect that there is some box somewhere that I can cut a chunk off of but I need to ask Phil21 or someone
16:30 Phil21 sri: no need for a tiny server, we can give you something last gen but datacenter quality that will be beyond overkill
16:32 batman can i get a chunk for trying out convos? ;)
16:32 batman ...and then suddenly every wanted some, hehe
16:32 batman *everybody
16:32 Phil21 yeah we can get something going
16:33 batman i'll ask later :)
16:35 sri a6502: small one would do, just need enough cpu/ram for pod rendering
16:35 sri Phil21: great
16:36 sri think there's maybe 5 concurrent users browsing the docs, so really not much load
16:38 Phil21 yeah, were you looking for sysadmin assistance on it, or just us hand off root?
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16:38 Phil21 thinking of related mojo projects wanted hosting too we could build you a larger system and just use it as a hypervisor for various virtual machines
16:38 sri just hand off root
16:38 Phil21 k
16:39 sri well, that's an interesting idea too
16:39 batman i think a server with virtual machines would be great
16:40 batman and i don't think it needs to be big.
16:40 Phil21 big is relative :)
16:40 batman indeed
16:40 batman if i need a big server, then i have enough success to buy my own :)
16:40 Phil21 we have 16 core xeon servers with 32GB RAM we can't really sell these days
16:40 Phil21 so pretty easy to toss another 32GB in there and hand it off :)
16:40 batman sounds big enough
16:41 sri hahahaha, i would have been fine with a $5 vserver too
16:41 vicash Phil21: you're selling your servers as hardware or as virtualized instances ?
16:42 Phil21 we do both, generally though we focus on either "hardcore" engineering based companies that kinda roll their own and mostly do colo, or we're doing enterprise stuff where everyone demands ridiculous hardware they let sit 99% idle
16:42 Phil21 our virtual product is mostly private vmware stacks we manage for various companies
16:43 vicash Phil21: is there a web page or some document on this stuff, i will recommend it to one of my customers  if it is feasible price wise
16:44 Phil21 vicash: sure, servercentral.com - but we're not really retail/single server focused
16:44 Phil21 what jberger is working on hopefully will change that soon :)
16:44 batman jberger++
16:44 * jberger keeps his nose to the grindstone
16:45 vicash Phil21: sounds good.
16:45 Phil21 vicash: what we're working on now is automating the bare metal provisioning process, and allowing self-service via an API
16:45 Phil21 (built via mojo)
16:46 Phil21 and from there, we'll work towards automating some form of virtual/container deployments (But that's a ways off and could change drastically)
16:47 vicash Phil21: cool. i will recommend it as an option... my customer needs several servers and are exploring ideas...
16:48 Phil21 vicash: that sounds great, if you like you can have them e-mail phil@servercentral.com and I can get them in contact with the right folks
16:48 vicash ok cool
16:50 Phil21 sri: I'll get something ticketed to get a server setup, we can dicuss how you want to do things re: vms then
16:50 Phil21 what OS do you prefer?
16:51 batman sri: i guess you have to answer suse now ;)
16:52 Phil21 offer canceled?
16:52 Phil21 (kidding)
16:52 sri lol
16:52 batman ;)
16:53 sri so far the suse recruiters have not even contacted me yet ;p
16:53 sri jberger/batman: which os do you prefer?
16:54 sri i've mostly worked with apt recently, but wouldn't really mind rpm
16:54 jberger I usually stay within Ubuntu/Debian land with the occasional jaunt back to FreeBSD when I think about systemd
16:54 batman sri: ubuntu. latest or lts
16:55 batman i would love to now having to deal with rpm/yum :P
16:56 Phil21 I'm a Debian fan myself, but if forced I'll used crippled-debian too :)
16:57 batman haha. i really like that ubuntu is trying to put itself out there.
16:57 Phil21 either of those will have a lot of experience on our side if you ever need assistance
16:57 Phil21 eh, gotta have a holy war otherwise you lose your geek card
16:58 batman i think i lost my geek card when i bought a mac :P
17:05 sri Phil21: i guess ubuntu it is then
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17:08 ribasushi https://eng.uber.com/mysql-migration/ <--- take that Pg-heads ;)
17:10 genio sri: Holy crap!  MS Office 365 on the Mac takes 7.51 GB
17:11 coolo and won't give it back! :)
17:13 sri ribasushi: seen that earlier, they do make some good points
17:13 sri what annoys me most about mysql though is the lack of transactional ddl
17:13 pink_mist do they have upsert already?
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17:17 genio yea, mysql has on duplicate key ...
17:18 nicomen macs are awesome for programming HTML
17:19 sri macs are awesome for programming because of retina screens
17:23 Phil21 alright, ubuntu it is
17:23 Phil21 we'll get something up next week, I need to run into the facility anyways so I may as well do it myself
17:24 nicomen xenial is quite new
17:26 sri ok, i'm losing the server hosting mojolicious.org currently on the 31st, so i'll get some $5 server for the meantime
17:29 batman sri: what is the requirement?
17:29 genio Anything you'd like help with?
17:29 batman we could try setting it up on my DO host in meanwhile...
17:29 sri batman: potato would do
17:29 batman sri: i meant... what do i clone and how do i start it?
17:30 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojolicious.org
17:30 batman sri: let me give it a try...
17:30 sri that running on port 80, i can switch around dns any time
17:32 sri Minion and Mojo::Pg available in @INC, so the doc browser works
17:33 sri although, i guess it would just redirect to metacpan if it can't find the pod files
17:35 * batman is setting it up
17:37 sri i had it set up with git checkouts of mojo/minion/mojo-pg and hypnotoad
17:38 sri and a script to update the checkouts and trigger a zero downtime restart afterwards
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17:39 sri so i could keep the docs in sync with recent commits
17:40 sri that script could then be used by git hooks, for which i don't have a static setup yet
17:43 batman sri: is this fast enough for you? http://mojo.thorsen.pm/perldoc/Minion
17:44 sri seems fine from here
17:44 sri http://mojo.thorsen.pm/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Routing
17:44 sri even the bigger pages
17:44 sri that's really the only load generators
17:44 batman so which domains should it listen to?
17:45 batman *mojolicious.org ?
17:45 sri i'll change the dns mapping for mojolicio.us and mojolicious.org
17:46 sri the redirect from .us to .org is in the script already
17:46 batman sri: can you pm me?
17:46 sri you shouldn't really have to do anything ;p
17:46 batman i don't want to keep mojo.thorsen.pm :)
17:47 batman oh. you can CNAME timer.thorsen.pm
17:47 batman i hope...
17:47 sri yea, better we pm, it's a bit much
17:47 nicomen how many beers to get to Ballmer's peak?
17:48 nicomen important late office programming question
18:02 Bean http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/
18:05 Bean My guess is between 8 and 12
18:29 sri btw. notifications in irccloud are pretty nice
18:30 sri maybe i won't do it for long... hehe... but right now i get a notification on my phone when someone mentions my name
18:31 sri and the notification vanishes automatically from my phone when i view the highlighted message on the laptop
18:31 sri really appreciate that kind of attention to detail
18:32 Grinnz_ discord does the same
18:32 Grinnz_ it is nice
18:32 sri gmail too
18:33 Grinnz_ yep
18:33 sri suppose it was invented for gmail ;p
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18:51 sri batman++ # mojolicious.org is running on a temp server now
18:52 sri now we have time to figure out how to be utilize the box from servercentral
18:52 sri s/be/best/
18:53 batman :)
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23:37 Grinnz_ hmm. systemd unit file for a hypnotoad process not quite working out with hot deployment. systemd considers the service exited since the process it's watching exits before the pidfile is updated, it seems
23:42 Grinnz_ not really important for this particular service, just something i noticed...
23:46 sri maybe the pid file handling can be optimized
23:48 Grinnz_ apparently nginx does whatever it does in the correct order to make systemd happy... thats pretty much all i could figure out so far
23:48 Grinnz_ it doesn't have any special config in its unit file
23:48 sri think our pid file handling is very naive
23:49 sri like, the new master checks every now and then if a pid file is there, and the old master deletes it when it shuts down
23:52 dave argh ... maybe I'm missing the documentation where it says all this ... but when when I receive a response from $ua->get I keep having to dig through several objects to find the method I want ... is there a cheat sheet somewhere?
23:52 nicomen dave: depends what methods you want?
23:52 sri agreed, a cheat sheet would be cool
23:52 dave status code, text of response, headers
23:53 sri i remember those being much more popular in the catalyst days
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23:53 dave I never used catalyst lol, I used to just write all this code manually
23:53 jberger jabberwok made a cross index file somewhere
23:53 * dave ducks
23:55 Grinnz_ dave: $tx->error (or $tx->res->error) gives you a hashref with code and message elements, https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojo::Transaction#error has an example how to handle that
23:56 Grinnz_ the $tx->res response object has code and message attributes as well
23:56 Grinnz_ see also $tx->success
23:56 dave omg this irish station
23:56 dave whoa, sorry...wrong chat tab
23:56 dave I'll look there, interested in the jabberwok cross index I am
23:57 marcus Heh. Turns out internet in Italy was satellite and convos web sockets didn't handle the latency or any
23:58 marcus Or something.
23:58 marcus Nice to be back home.
23:59 jberger dave: http://wlindley.com/mojo/Mojo.html
23:59 jberger built using https://github.com/lindleyw/pod-index
23:59 dave wow
23:59 jberger marcus: I had some pretty bad latency in Kekaha too
23:59 jberger hard to do almost anything

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