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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-09-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:16 Grinnz the "nipped out" thing in irccloud really confused me until I found out it was created by brits :P
00:21 Grinnz I imagined it in a British accent, and it all made sense
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03:34 Grinnz cpan upload feed seems to be broken... https://metacpan.org/release/DBOOK/Minion-Backend-SQLite-0.006
03:36 cpan_mojo Mojo-Webqq-1.8.5 by SJDY https://metacpan.org/release/SJDY/Mojo-Webqq-1.8.5
03:38 cpan_mojo Mojo-Weixin-1.1.9 by SJDY https://metacpan.org/release/SJDY/Mojo-Weixin-1.1.9
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07:18 cpan_mojo Mojo-IRC-0.37 by JHTHORSEN https://metacpan.org/release/JHTHORSEN/Mojo-IRC-0.37
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09:46 * sri yawns
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11:16 mpapec jberger: this is ok, just have to replace https://gist.github.com/jberger/3607b149db20258e25a52b7596eb9d23#file-test-pl-L9
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11:16 mpapec with sub { shift; $c->$cb(@_) }
11:18 * mpapec wonders if there is performance difference in $c->$cb(@_) vs. $cb->($c, @_)
11:28 jberger Ah site
11:28 jberger Err, ah sure
11:28 jberger Why do i even try to swipe type before coffee?
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16:09 chansen_ I'm catching up with scrollback (been away a few days) It's like Grinnz says, any usage of utf8::(encode/decode) is a bad idea because it decodes a superset of UTF-8 on ASCII plaforms. (don't ask what it does on EBCDIC, nor ask what Encode's UTF-8 implementation does)
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16:22 * jberger is appropriately apheared
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18:31 sri ok, apple did it again, those new airpods are really cool and scifi
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18:46 jberger "bluetooth-like" ... aw man, we actually had a standard there for a while
18:47 Grinnz https://xkcd.com/927/
18:48 jberger Grinnz: see but it isn't that
18:48 jberger there is currently only one real standard for this
18:48 jberger and then apple has to go screw it up with another one
18:49 jberger next they will be doing that for ports on laptops! (pshaw, no one would want to mess with the nice stardards we already have there right?!)
18:50 sri hahaha... not for $159 and 5 hours of battery ;p
18:50 sri guess it will take a few more iterations
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19:04 sri guess no macOS
19:04 sri that should mean a macbook event soon
19:10 mishanti2 jberger: Great interview. :)
19:10 * mishanti2 is a bit behind on what's happening in the world
19:11 jberger sri: someone in the office here already has bluetooth-linked ear buds
19:11 jberger so that isn't even the novel bit
19:12 sri apple released these https://s.aolcdn.com/dims5/amp:81038cec5ffd4915842f70db076c2fddd4c0799a/q:100/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F884b36c4e2a9273a97e84d120e6c0796%2F204296578%2Fairpodsnew.png
19:12 sri no cable
19:12 sri and touch surface thingy for controls, no buttons
19:12 mishanti2 One of my minion got something like that. Only they are smaller than the airpods.
19:13 jberger mishanti2: thanks, btw
19:13 sri i should really get some good headphones
19:14 jberger I have a set of beats bluetooth headphones and honestly I mostly use my corded samsung ones that came with the phone
19:14 sri something that works as a gaming headset and headphones for listening to music would be cool
19:15 Grinnz https://twitter.com/DennysDiner/status/773588634343735297
19:16 sri haha
19:16 nicomen jberger: bluetooth earphones? as in the 90s invention?
19:16 mishanti2 jberger: I liked how you would backtrack in a very relaxed manner when you realied that something needed a different kind of explaination. Made for easy listening.
19:17 jberger mishanti2: that came from teaching physics
19:17 jberger but I'm glad you noticed
19:17 jberger honestly, one better would be not to even get out ahead of myself
19:17 jberger but it is so hard in a live interview
19:17 sri oh, macOS will be released without a big show in september 20
19:17 sri maybe that means no new macbooks this year :o
19:17 nicomen sorry, first bluetooth shipped was 2000, I stand corrected
19:18 jberger nicomen: it took quite a while before the sound quality and size was worth it for listening to music-grade audio
19:18 jberger for a single in-ear bud for phone calls sure
19:19 nicomen ah
19:19 nicomen so, more interestingly anythign exciting at the ps4 talk?
19:20 Grinnz phone audio is horribly bad quality to begin with
19:22 [0xAF] I have some-name (I mean it's not noname, but cant remember the name) bt headphones, which are pretty cool and i have them for 4-5 years now. Still when I'm downloading something via wifi at  max possible speed they sometime break the music for part of the second. Same with my BT mouse, sometimes when using wifi at max it's lagging...
19:25 Grinnz is your wifi on 2.4GHz? if you can switch your devices to 5GHz it might be better
19:25 Grinnz bluetooth is also on 2.4GHz
19:25 purl okay, Grinnz.
19:25 [0xAF] Grinnz: yeah, it is. i know this is the problem and the so called co-existance is not so good. but my AP does not have 5ghz
19:26 Grinnz well, theres an excuse for a new one ;)
19:26 [0xAF] hehe ;)
19:27 jberger purl: bluetooth?
19:27 purl bluetooth is convienient, yet insecure or operational area of 30 feet or 2.45 GHz or switches between 79 individual randomly chosen frequencies 1,600 times per second or bluetooth bluetooth. bluetooth! bluetooth, bluetooth bluetooth or (: Malkovich) or blootuthe or on 2.4GHz
19:27 jberger well there's a totally useless factoid
19:28 [0xAF] but i too do not like the apple idea of making their own jacks and their own protocols. when i heard they will change the old connector i was like: at last, they will use micro usb... but they made a new connector incompatible with anything...
19:28 jberger purl: no, bluetooth is <reply> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/32089717.jpg
19:28 purl okay, jberger.
19:29 [0xAF] bt lover ;)
19:29 preaction USB is a serial protocol, which means it needs some kind of logic on the peripheral device in order to decode the stream into whatever it actually is. lightning is just a mapping of the original 30-pin, which means there are more options
19:30 [0xAF] preaction: yeah, then they put a chip into the connector, so they can detect their original cables and reject the chinesee ones...
19:30 preaction that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said
19:30 [0xAF] preaction: still there is communication and some logic in the chip
19:30 preaction USB requires a chip _in the peripheral device_
19:31 preaction the old 30-pin didn't. pins X, Y, and Z were for earmarked for "analog audio/video" and other such things
19:31 [0xAF] preaction: not wanting to argue here, but you're connecting the lightening to phones/tablet ? where else?
19:31 [0xAF] preaction: yeah, i know for the old one. but i don't see the need of lightening, when they could just used the usb, just like android and whatever else.
19:32 preaction audio input devices (microphones), audio output devices (speakers), video output devices (monitors, televisions)
19:32 [0xAF] preaction: haven't thought about that and didn't knew they are using it for such things...
19:33 preaction usb requires the peripheral to use more power and have a CPU. lightning does not. it's like the old RCA cables (red/white/yellow) and the new HDMI cable (digital, encrypted)
19:33 [0xAF] yeah, got that, but didn't knew they have other devices beside the phones/tablets for the lightening cable
19:33 preaction there's the spec for displayport over usb, iirc. but afaik that is also a serial protocol
19:34 preaction i've had an ipad -> RCA cable since i bought the ipad. it's great for hotels that don't lock down their tvs (Because some do, which is annoying)
19:34 [0xAF] preaction: i dont know any other uses besides serial comm (with the peripherial device, as you mentioned), over usb.
19:35 [0xAF] and besides power supply obviously
19:36 preaction if the device needs a proper CPU, it needs more power. if that power comes from the phone, then you drain your phone's batter. otherwise it needs external power (plug in to the wall) which means more cables and terribleness.
19:36 preaction usb is convenient for some reasons, and decidedly inconvenient for others
19:37 [0xAF] hm, yeah, but with todays MCUs, it's not so much power actually... and another question: can you use the lightening from iphone to send audio/video to the other side of the cable?
19:38 preaction yes. that's why that lightning->3.5mm audio is so tiny (and cheap enough to bundle with the phone)
19:38 preaction lightning is just a mapping of the original 30-pin connector, with some of the legacy pins removed
19:38 [0xAF] ok, i stand ashamed ;)
19:39 jberger but ... https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/71566499.jpg
19:39 [0xAF] jberger: hehe ;)
19:39 preaction i mean, changing connectors for arbitrary reasons as a money grab is a thing that happens, and apple isn't innocent of it, but that's not the case with this particular one
19:40 [0xAF] jberger: bt have some nice uses, like reading/clearing the errors from the ECU of my car with my android phone ;)
19:40 jberger oh nice
19:40 preaction and apple got caught a few times doing it, which is why they're really try to use standards (even if those standards are esoteric, like thunderbolt)
19:40 jberger didn't know you could use that
19:41 [0xAF] ELM237 BT adapter for the car (~$5 from DX.com) and you are good to go.
19:41 Grinnz cars don't exactly have the ... greatest access control mechanisms
19:42 Grinnz then again, you usually do need physical access to the port as a start
19:42 [0xAF] the cars in europe are mandatory to have EOBD (OBD) since 2004. in USA since few years earlier
19:42 [0xAF] it's a common interface for all cars with some common information over the protocol there.
19:42 [0xAF] OBD = On Board Diagnostic
19:43 [0xAF] it's a pretty small plug to your obd connector of the car... you can leave it there and when you're in the car, your phone will automaticly connect... then you have some interesting dashboard on the phone
19:44 [0xAF] i'm using this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque  (checkout the screenshots)
19:45 jehdin this is all giving me macbook envy all over again.
19:47 [0xAF] not to brag here, but i have a friend who is like "apple FTW" and does not use anything other... apple tv, 3 apple laptops (pro, air and something), desktop apple comp., apple AP, iphone, ipad, ipod ... and probably something other... so this guy never made apple to connect via BT to the ELM237 (OBD) of the car... he bough some cheap android tablet to use it for his car.
19:48 [0xAF] not that it's impossible, but you cannot do this with the $5 ELM from the chinesee... you will need something aproved by apple...
19:49 jberger the walled garden that is apple can be quite frustrating
19:50 [0xAF] i can give them that at least. they have pretty good integration between the devices and the softwares they have ... (brag here) almost like in my KDE :)
19:51 [0xAF] the truth is, that i would use their hardware, but the price is way too much for me... though they have pretty much the best hw and battery life i've seen...
19:56 jberger battery life is great
19:57 jberger and since my old job bought me my macbook pro, I'm going to keep using it, for all the other baggage that comes with it
19:58 [0xAF] my problem with apple is that they do the same as sony... trying to catch you with all their hardware, services, software and so on ... you buy one device and you want to by all others... the binding politic is not my way ...
19:59 [0xAF] and the price is doubled...
20:01 [0xAF] when my firiend bought the macbook mini it was the same price as my dell inspiron 7250 15R Special Edition.... my hadrware is much more powerful, but does not have the apple on the back... we bought them at the same time and 1y ago he was complaining that he need more powerful HW (which he did not actually, but he needed an excuse for macbook pro), so he bought the macbook pro... which is at the price of a
20:01 [0xAF] car actually
20:12 sri what's a macbook mini?
20:12 [0xAF] sorry i meant air
20:12 [0xAF] dunno why i always call it mini ?!?
20:12 [0xAF] not on purpose
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20:13 sri air is a bit dated yea
20:13 sri but getting a macbook these days for me is about the display and trackpad
20:13 lluad I think the Air (low-end ultralight) and an eight pound Dell brick are different enough niches that you can't usefully compare them.
20:14 lluad Both nice machines, entirely different uses.
20:14 [0xAF] sri: the pro's display is pretty cool...
20:14 sri and battery life i guess
20:15 [0xAF] lluad: that's correct of course, still the mini's price, as all other apples is bit high
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20:15 sri macbook pro also use rather uncommon intel cpus
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20:15 [0xAF] sri: yeah ... i can only imagine that the battery life of apple will someday come to the rest of us ;()
20:15 [0xAF] :)
20:16 sri 28W TDP in the 13" and 47W TDP in the 15"
20:16 sri most common laptops these days just use 15W TDP
20:16 [0xAF] hm
20:17 sri you'd never guess from intels naming scheme
20:17 [0xAF] 47W is high, yeah ... but still the optimization of the software (kernel and apps) in ios is the big win for the battery i guess
20:17 sri os x
20:17 [0xAF] sorry
20:17 [0xAF] but the same for ios too...
20:17 sri font rendering and ui scaling is also amazing
20:18 [0xAF] i dont get the ui scaling thing ... why would you have that display and then zoom the apps? (or am i getting it wrong?)
20:18 sri you're getting it wrong
20:19 [0xAF] care to explain? just curious ;)
20:22 sri https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/heres-how-apple-adapted-retina-technology-for-the-new-macbook
20:24 sri basically it displays text so crisp that you never want to use a normal display again
20:25 [0xAF] hm
20:25 [0xAF] so they upscale the older apps (which don't know retina) and it still looks good?
20:25 sri naah, nobody has old apps anymore
20:26 [0xAF] on the other hand, isnt most stuff of the desktop vector? why would you need scale? if the font is rendered for the retina and the window manager is rendering vectors?
20:26 [0xAF] sri: yeah, i know all apps are retina ready now...
20:27 sri it is scaled so you don't need magnifying glass to read text
20:27 [0xAF] except MS office and adobe photoshop, or it's retina already?
20:28 [0xAF] but isnt the text rendered by the os x font renderer, or it's rendered by the app itself? (dunno what's the concept here)
20:28 sri guess i can't explain it
20:29 [0xAF] anyway, the point is, that whatever apple make, they will force the others to use the new technology, which is good on one hand and not so good on the other.
20:29 [0xAF] i give them that they are the innovators for many technologies... at least when stieve was around...
20:29 [0xAF] steve*
20:30 meredith i think i've only had stuff render badly on a retina display that was on a multi-platform toolkit. like LibreOffice just started looking consistently decent in the last year.
20:31 [0xAF] hm, my friend told me that the MS office is bad too, but it's information few months old...
20:31 meredith GIMP is still lo-res.  i can't think of anything else that's been rough, like everything native is fine now
20:31 [0xAF] sad for gimp... would be nice to render it correctly on retina ;)
20:31 meredith I can only imagine the hidpi experience on windows is still worse, and i know it's pretty bad on X
20:32 meredith but it's -soo- readable
20:33 [0xAF] i cant say for windows, havent used it since 95-98 versions.... but on linux on my 15" full hd display i dont see bad graphics
20:34 [0xAF] perhaps i dont know what is good graphics :)
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20:41 sri meredith: why would you want to use gimp on os x though?
20:49 sri [0xAF]: i think 226ppi is where good displays are supposed to start
20:51 [0xAF] sri: i'm yet to see that on my next laptop perhaps ;)
20:52 [0xAF] arent all of the retina displays glare? i wonder if they can make it matte
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20:59 meredith i don't really make a practice of getting apple stuff, just a work laptop, so i just pull up my usual toolkit
21:00 meredith i don't have to do any graphics work for a living on here, GIMP does the job for the silly edits i tend to do
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21:02 sri i've recently looked at open source design apps, since i was considering getting a non-apple laptop
21:02 sri and krita seemed a lot nicer than gimp
21:03 [0xAF] i've been using gimp for some years now, to edit my photos, not so serious job, but it does it good... i can say that in the last 1-2 years, gimp is getting somewhere... actually for photo editing you would not need photoshop anymore, IMO
21:03 * sri uses the affinity apps for all design work these days
21:03 [0xAF] and i know 2 web designers who are using gimp and just occasionally start PS, just because of habbits
21:04 [0xAF] sri: i guess it's osx only?
21:04 meredith i guess i haven't checked out krita in a really, really long time :D
21:04 sri and windows soon https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/
21:05 [0xAF] web looks nice ;)
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21:06 sri i like them more than photoshop and illustrator, and they are regularly on sale for like 29 euros
21:06 [0xAF] i still do not understand what people does to themselves by using windows. every guy i know, who switched from windows to osx or linux, says he would never again touch windows.
21:06 sri actually, i don't mind windows 10
21:06 [0xAF] sri: if gimp make retina version you should try it too i guess... at least it's free ;)
21:07 [0xAF] sri: all windows users i know, swear against windows 10...
21:07 [0xAF] except few perhaps
21:08 sri i do enough design work that i'll gladly pay 29 euros for good tools
21:08 [0xAF] of course, if that pays off...
21:08 meredith I don't mind windows either, and I'm pretty cool with 10.  Windows still involves the least fighting in order to play games
21:08 sri just don't want one of those ridiculous adobe subscriptions
21:09 [0xAF] i'm using FOSS mostly, but i do some small donations once in a while... when i need some paid software (which is pretty rare), i usualy get it from torrents and if it turns out that i need it really, i pay it...
21:09 [0xAF] same for the games i play... first download from torrents, then buy from steam (sometimes running in wine, for windows only games)
21:13 jabberwok it took a bit of research to coordinate Mojo::Upload and files retrieved with Mojo::UserAgent , so I could save them the same way.  -- http://pastebin.com/Y0efD90G
21:16 sri [0xAF]: steam has a good return policy, you get your money back, no questions asked as long as you have not played more than 2 hours or owned the game for 2 weeks (i think)
21:16 sri no need to torrent to try games
21:16 [0xAF] sri: didnt knew that ;)
21:16 sri they actually encourage people to try games
21:17 [0xAF] i guess it's just old habbits ;)
21:17 jabberwok old hobbits ?
21:18 [0xAF] i live in bulgaria... it's something normal to download all paid software and games from torrents ... at least it was normal... still many gamers are doing it...
21:18 [0xAF] and i'm pretty sure it's the same for most of europe and russia ... and asia for sure...
21:20 [0xAF] heh, ppl just started to buy their windows os just last few years... i can bet nobody in BG had a paid windows before (let's say) 2010
21:20 [0xAF] it's because the price was not normal for most of the softwares and the living standard here...
21:20 [0xAF] not that the living standard is better now, but the softwares are cheaper ;)
21:22 [0xAF] that's why i was always about the FOSS, i never liked the paid software and the proprietary code... not that i need to explain that to you guys..
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23:00 * sri tried playing hearthstone again... and got the impression that the game might be dead
23:05 sri the future doesn't actually look too bright for blizzard, most of their franchises seem to be going nowhere
23:19 meredith i've a ton of friends who are loving overwatch and also jumping back into warcraft because they put out a better expansion this time
23:21 meredith also thanks for the Krita rec, it actually does handle hidpi on osx and the ui looks pretty straightforward
23:22 sri i might be totally wrong, but i doubt very much that the legion hype will last very long
23:23 sri diablo 3 is over, starcraft 2 is over, hots was flop
23:25 sri i guess they can still turn overwatch around
23:26 sri hearthstone should be harder, since the designers are extremely opinionated and might realize too late they screwed up
23:26 sri who knows, hearthstone is the big cash cow, maybe the higher ups intervene
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23:43 sri heh, now i'm wondering if i should maybe try some legion for nostalgia

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