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IRC log for #mojo, 2016-11-07

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Time Nick Message
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05:16 Paddi Hi, is there any command similar to redirect_to which I could inject additional HTTP header?
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06:32 sri Grinnz: just adding a little note to the docs doesn't seem like a good idea to me
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06:33 sri if it's deprecated you can just remove all references from the docs imo
06:34 suede sri: information wants to be free
06:35 Grinnz don't see a benefit to that
06:35 sri you're still showing how to use those methods/class
06:35 sri that's counter productive
06:36 Grinnz yeah removing the examples/descriptions makes sense
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08:00 Jonis can you specify morbo's listen parameter in the config?
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08:31 sri no
08:31 sri wouldn't work
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08:37 janl mojo stack traces are way longer than java stack traces
08:37 janl I'm wondering if that is a measure of success
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08:38 pink_mist doubt it has anything to do with success
08:39 pink_mist I've got no idea why you'd even draw the connection
08:40 janl I'm being a bit sarcastic ;-)
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08:41 janl I'm debugging after a refactoring and see a lot of stack traces
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09:00 logioniz Hello, I have a question about this code (method IOLoop::waiting) http://paste.ubuntu.com/23426479/. Do with it any problems? is it possible to add it in IOLoop (a La coroutine)?
09:00 logioniz Hello, I have a question about this code (method IOLoop::await) http://paste.ubuntu.com/23426479/. Do with it any problems? is it possible to add it in IOLoop (a La coroutine)?
09:03 pink_mist that does look pretty neat
09:04 pink_mist (but I'm not a mojo dev, so my opinion matters not one whit)
09:05 pink_mist no need for the odd *{...} = sub { syntax btw, you could just do sub Mojo::IOLoop::await {
09:12 sri logioniz: sorry, but that's horrible
09:13 sri one_tick can recurse without limit and your perl will ultimately crash in unexpected ways
09:14 sri in fact, now i'm considering the removal of Mojo::IOLoop::one_tick
09:15 sri since just last week i've complained about the same anti-pattern at work
09:15 sri one_tick might just be a footgun
09:16 sri perhaps it should die on recursion, which would allow the intended use case to still work
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09:25 logioniz pink_mist: thanks
09:27 logioniz sri: thanks, understand problem. My code is horrible, if someone twice will call await.
09:28 logioniz is there any easy way to implement coroutine?
09:30 sri hahahaha
09:30 purl LOLCON 4 reached.
09:30 sri if there was, we would use it
09:30 sri right now there is only Coro
09:31 sri i made a gist a long time ago https://gist.github.com/kraih/6082061
09:42 logioniz Thanks, but don't understand all the magic that takes place in sub register
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10:31 kwa What's the best way to set the Minion Backend::Pg schema to something other than the default public schema? Putting it in startup() seems wrong -- http://paste.ubuntu.com/23441125/
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12:26 jberger Yet another soul trying in vain to allow a blocking style in nonblocking code
12:28 jberger kwa i don't see anything wrong with that
12:30 sri what's the hip message broker at the moment? still rabbitmq?
12:30 sri kwa: can confirm, nothing wrong
12:32 jberger sri probably. At least i haven't heard anything else
12:33 jberger There is that person who posted a mojo binding a little while ago that i promised to review
12:33 jberger Going to get to that this week now that my Chicago.pm talk and the Cubs world series ate both over
12:33 jberger *are
12:34 jberger https://github.com/inway/mojo-rabbitmq-client
12:39 sri jberger: api looks too complicated to me
12:41 sri Net::AMQP::RabbitMQ looks like an interesting candidate for a Mojo::* wrapper
12:41 sri if its test results were more green
12:47 jberger I wrote something a while back too though it wasn't finished because my employer closed
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12:51 jberger Iirc i wrote mine based on something rolsky wrote
12:55 jberger ok the module I used was Crixa
12:56 jberger and this is what I came up with before <<bleep>> hit the fan
12:56 jberger https://gist.github.com/jberger/6235eb997b26ab767847ce69d29c9d81
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12:59 jberger that was focused on exception notification via rabbit, obviously
12:59 jberger but the connection, publication and consumption worked
12:59 jberger Crixa was the best module I found at the time, but the docs lacked quite a bit IIRC
13:00 kwa jberger, sri: Thanks. It looked like minion might call the migrations before the search path was set on the DBI connection if running something other than morbo.
13:07 sri migrations run when the first connection is requested
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14:51 jberger https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12891401
14:53 suede jberger: the perl5/perl6 debacle reminds me of the ongoing switch from python 2 to python 3, but on a much more massive (and compatibility-breaking) scale
14:53 suede i mean you can at least /write/ python 2 / python 3 code that works on both of the latest versions
14:55 Lee no killer-app(s). when there are, more people will start using it
14:55 Lee everything else is a distraction, same old arguments, no different to most other languages
14:55 suede yeah, of course
14:55 sri no killer-app, not the best at anything
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15:25 jberger they can actually still "fix" the hype problem
15:26 jberger they wasted the 15 year opportunity
15:26 jberger but they could still rename it and tap that event
15:26 sri naah, they had their chance with the christmas release to impress people, and failed miserably
15:26 sri perl6 will never again get that amount of interest
15:26 janl let them make perl 6.0001?
15:27 jberger I think the idea that there is no video of a cheering room and larry wall ceremonially uploading perl6-christmas (or whatever the damn version is) is a travesty
15:27 jberger sri: yeah, that moment is something that you just can't manufacture
15:27 sri it's like perl6 people don't really care either
15:27 jberger the real perl6 people are so echo chambered they THOUGHT it was a big deal
15:28 jberger that was the thing that shocked me
15:28 jberger when I went onto #perl6 trying to get people to do ANYTHING
15:29 jberger http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-24#i_11771099
15:30 sri ouch
15:35 jberger and then things like this: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-25#i_11773722
15:36 jberger or this: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-25#i_11774353
15:36 jberger Hotkeys> Has 6.c released yet?
15:36 jberger skids> Hotkeys: the compiler release log is https://gist.github.com/coke/dc55e617e76a6f7082f9
15:37 jberger I mean, wtf
15:37 suede jberger: what the f
15:37 purl the f is x9, no? or free. or the fuck word
15:37 suede are they daft
15:37 suede good luck getting even perl 5 users to switch over with that attitude
15:37 jberger http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-25#i_11774908
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15:40 suede jberger: re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-25#i_11773722
15:40 suede that line translates to
15:40 suede "we have no deadline, and we really don't care what you think"
15:40 jberger yep
15:40 jberger and the distinction between the language spec and the interpreter is completely tone deaf
15:40 jberger anyway, I don't want to off-topic too much
15:40 jberger I just get so mad when I think about iot
15:41 jberger it
15:41 suede jberger: the direction perl5/perl6 seems to be heading is an entire language split
15:41 suede if they keep that attitude
15:41 jberger it already is, they just haven't admitted it
15:41 suede anyways, agreed, i won't get off-topic either
15:41 suede suffice to say i am also incensed by what is going on
15:42 jberger meanwhile they keep sitting on all the perl branded stuff just to keep siphoning off what little traffic we get
15:42 jberger r/perl is perl 5 and perl 6, r/perl6 is just perl 6
15:42 sri +1
15:42 purl 1
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15:51 jberger heh, and zoffix is ****ing all over that HN thread
15:51 jberger good job guys
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16:40 Grinnz it is sad. but i see no reason to care about it anymore except to correct resulting misconceptions about perl 5
16:58 genio I just hate Zoffix's line of "You're confusing Perl 5 and Perl 6. The two are different languages with vastly different communities." yet he can't see that the naming convention chosen leads to this very confusion.  *sigh*
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17:01 suede genio: not only that, he just comes off as quite... arrogant to me
17:02 suede I just read pretty much every comment he made in that entire thread
17:02 suede Everything he said just seems very holier-than-thou
17:15 jberger and pretty mean spirited too
17:16 jberger honestly I almost commented on his post trying to through the perl5 community under the bus by saying "yes the communities are different, which one are you representing now?"
17:26 suede jberger: He seems to be representing himself.
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18:12 preaction so zoffix is back to his old self again, eh?
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19:09 ZoffixW \o
19:10 ZoffixW The grapevine stretches far and wide.
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19:11 ZoffixW I wrote the response to suede, jberger, and genio, but it's a bit big for IRC: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/b16ec0dcbcb7ecaea5fe45f8eb0c9789
19:12 ZoffixW We aren't clueless idiots. We're just managing the best we can with the resources we have.
19:12 suede ZoffixW: "What's wrong with being arrogant?" well it indicates that you're doing whatever you're doing so you can talk down to people
19:13 ZoffixW suede, oh, maybe I'm misunderstanding what arrogant means.
19:13 ZoffixW I meant more that I don't care if the person receiving it gets offended because their original statement kinda annoyed/aggravated me
19:14 suede Cool, dude.
19:14 jberger ZoffixW: I know that #mojo is publically logged, I don't say anything I don't intend to be known
19:14 ZoffixW Besides, most of the comments I made was at 6am, before I had my coffee ^_^
19:14 jberger the perl6 release really lacked luster and as such it flopped and now there's no buzz at all
19:15 sri i did not know that perl6 has less committers than perl5
19:15 sri one more reason to be very very sceptical
19:15 jberger and meanwhile representing the community (whether it be perl or perl 6) by being prickly at people on HN isn't going to help anything
19:16 jberger and yes, I'm frustrated, perl6 has drained external attention from perl5 for long since before I showed up
19:16 jberger the least they (you) could have done was try to capture the moment when you had it
19:18 ZoffixW 11 commiters past week, with about 3 doing most of them: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pulse
19:18 jberger if the perl6 community didn't have the people to accomplish a good looking release, why not ask for help?
19:18 genio and I apologize in advance and will be happy to discuss in private if necessary, but your second paragraph in that gist irks me to no end. Specifically the last part
19:19 jberger genio: I agree
19:19 sri http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png
19:19 ZoffixW jberger, ask whom for help?
19:20 jberger the community
19:20 purl i heard the community was a pretty cool guy.  Eh insults innocent contributors and doesn't afraid of anything.
19:21 nicomen heh
19:21 genio I should probably just shut up at this point. /me steers the topic a completely different direction
19:21 genio sri: Still liking the new job?
19:21 jberger step outside your echo chamber and say "hey guys, we have this release coming up, but we can't spare the time for writing press releases or making windows installers or ... making a compiler release on the day of the language release"
19:22 jberger we **assumed** that those things were part of, you know, a 15 year lead-up release
19:22 sri yes, strange week at suse hq though, half the company is at susecon in the us
19:22 genio sri: Do you work from home or do you have to go into an office?
19:24 sri i'm at suse hq for 6 weeks, after that i'll work from home
19:24 genio ah. right.  (I was curious why it'd feel weird if you were working from home).
19:25 sri 6 weeks will be over this friday
19:27 sri suse is definitely a great employer, you just have to like linux and open source
19:27 sri and accept that there's more linux culture than programming culture
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19:38 ZoffixW \o have a good day.
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19:40 sri my first day at work was basically "here's your laptop, there's nothing on the hd yet, have fun setting it up", and then i had to go hunting for a suse install usb stick and instructions for what drivers to blacklist to make x11 not crash :)
19:42 genio That sounds like a pretty fun first day, actually.
19:43 sri and afterwards enter my travel expenses into SAP... it's a weird combination of open source craze and enterprise
19:44 genio Anything like SAP is going to be just... eww. We use Epicor to serve the same purpose and it's so awful that I can't understand how these things sell
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19:48 mishanti1 Hehe. SAP? I hear it is Germanys revenge for loosing the war.
19:54 sri haha
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20:29 sri so
20:30 sri what are we going to do about Mojo::IOLoop::one_tick?
20:30 pink_mist I think the die if recursed into sounds sane
20:31 sri not so easy with EV though
20:31 sri at least i don't see an obvious solution there
20:31 sri specifically Mojo::Reactor::EV::one_tick
20:34 pink_mist can't you simply wrap it with a state $recurse = 0; die if $recurse; $recurse = 1; EV...; $recurse = 0;?
20:39 pink_mist would that add too much overhead?
20:39 * sri puts it on the todo list https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/1015
20:40 sri may the golfing for the shortest solution begin
20:40 * sri will not actually participate though
20:40 sri pink_mist: might work, since Mojo::IOLoop::EV is a singleton
20:40 sri umm Reactor
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22:25 sri oh
22:25 sri another problem actually
22:25 sri for Mojo::IOLoop->start we already protect from recursion
22:26 sri but only in Mojo::IOLoop
22:26 sri the reactors are unprotected there too
22:26 jberger hmmmm
22:27 sri i suppose protecting in Mojo::IOLoop works, since i've never seen anyone use the reactor start method for this kind of shenenigans
22:37 sri not sure if that's the right solution
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22:37 good_news_everyon [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vX0gI
22:37 good_news_everyon mojo/master 0c79e9a Sebastian Riedel: improve one_tick method in Mojo::IOLoop to protect from recursion, similar to the start method (closes #1015)
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22:37 sri but lets get the ball rolling
22:43 jberger only concern is if that's a sizable performance hit
22:44 sri true
22:44 sri although, one_tick embedding is already rather inefficient
22:44 sri do we actually need it?
22:45 sri :S http://grep.cpan.me/?q=Mojo%3A%3AIOLoop%5C-%5C%3Eone_tick
22:48 jberger my use is all in .t files
22:52 Grinnz isn't needed for https://metacpan.org/source/DBOOK/POE-Loop-Mojo_IOLoop-0.002/lib/POE/Loop/Mojo_IOLoop.pm#L244, and don't think there's anywhere else I would have used it (other than .t files)
22:53 sri hmm, it is definitely useful for tests
22:53 sri we use it for core tests too
22:54 jberger also documented for embedding in a foreign loop: http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Web-server-embedding
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