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IRC log for #mojo, 2017-11-28

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Time Nick Message
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00:30 Grinnz https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2017/11/22
00:30 Grinnz finished that series yesterday. good stuff
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02:57 Topic for #mojo is now 🍩 nom nom | http://mojolicious.org | http://irclog.mojolicious.org | http://code-of-conduct.mojolicious.org
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03:14 kyan Hi, how can I convert a string into DOM elements in the flavor that the .content method wants? .content((DOM::Tiny.parse("<br>").root)) indicates a type mismatch...
03:15 kyan (simply doing .content("<br>") puts in a literal &lt;br&gt; into the DOM)
03:22 jberger kyan I'm not sure what you are asking about
03:22 jberger DOM::Tiny? dots as method invocants?
03:22 jberger is this Perl?
03:22 kyan Perl 6
03:23 jberger sorry, wrong channel
03:23 jberger This is perl5's #mojo
03:24 kyan Ah, thanks, do you know where the other one is (and/or if it exists)?
03:24 jberger sorry, I don't
03:24 * kyan kinda figured it was all the same thing...
03:24 jberger I know that there is a #perl6 on freenode
03:24 kyan Ok, fair enough, I thought about asking there but saw this on the Mojo documentation so figured it was better
03:24 kyan thanks!
03:24 jberger good luck!
03:24 purl You'll need it.
03:24 jberger hehe
03:24 jberger botsnack
03:24 purl :)
03:34 * Grinnz is curious what documentation led to that question being asked here
03:35 mohawk it's a legitimate thing to imagine that irc.perl.org would include discussion of perl 6
03:35 Grinnz yes, but why #mojo?
03:35 mohawk got me there
03:36 * mohawk looks at jberger re "perl" / "perl 6"
03:36 Grinnz that's a whole other discussion
03:36 mohawk yeah
03:37 mohawk one talk at LPW had <strikethrough>6lang</strikethrough>perl 6 on a few slides
03:38 jberger I have strong opinions
03:38 jberger let's not do this now
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03:45 kyan (#mojo because the DOM::Tiny module is from this project, or... at least I've been following this project's documentation for how to use it! Maybe that's why I'm having trouble...)
03:45 jberger kyan: kinda a weird subject here
03:47 jberger short version is, Perl6 ports of Mojo toolkit code has been blessed by the core team as long as they're renamed (as it was, thus DOM::Tiny) but we don't maintain them nor do we have any idea what their current state is
03:47 jberger our docs may indeed help you, but they may not, use at your own peril :-P
03:47 kyan Ahhhh, gotcha. Thanks!
03:48 jberger np
04:01 Grinnz it's based on Mojo::DOM initially but as it's a different language, mojo support channels are unlikely to be much help
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13:54 jberger :o https://docs.perl6.org/language/traps#Whitespace
13:55 genio jberger: eww
13:56 jberger honestly, some of those might be deal breakers for me
13:56 jberger while ($++ > 5){ .say } is not the same as while ($++ > 5) { .say }
13:56 jberger like, come on
13:57 mishanti1 O_o
13:57 nicomen really significant whitespace?
13:57 CandyAngel Significant whitespace == me never using Perl6
13:58 CandyAngel It's why I don't use Python!
13:58 exp-innit it's really not the same as python
13:58 jberger in python, the whitespace is significant for a legitimate reason, even if you don't like it
13:58 jberger this is just crazy
13:59 CandyAngel Yes, still the same reason :P
13:59 jberger now python's two uses of syntactic trailing commas, that's crazy
13:59 exp-innit or four different string formatting methods lol
13:59 exp-innit but regardless
13:59 exp-innit the example you gave is attempting to write perl5 in perl6
14:00 exp-innit and perl6's parser is single pass and unambiguous
14:00 jberger unambiguous in the mathematical sense, those examples (in the perl6 documentation no less) will confuse people
14:01 genio it would confuse the crap out of me. but, I'm never going to use Perl 6, so I guess that's not a problem.
14:01 genio sorry, I mean, I'm never going to use Rakudo *refuses to continue to call it by the other name*
14:01 exp-innit jberger: can't think i've been confused yet, but perhaps
14:01 exp-innit genio: why not? it's wonderful
14:02 jberger ok, ok I'm sorry I kicked the hornet's nest again
14:02 jberger I was following up reading the p6 irc log to see if kyan got their question answered
14:02 jberger saw that link
14:03 CandyAngel facedesked
14:03 genio sorry. I shouldn't IRC while ornery
14:07 exp-innit haha sorry i didn't mean to sound like i was interrogating
14:07 exp-innit there are a few odd bits and bobs, like i'm not a fan of pair syntax
14:07 exp-innit but it's certainly worth looking through, it's certainly informed my programming in general, regardless of language
14:08 exp-innit no Mojo though is a hard sell ♥
14:12 karjala_ Will Mojolicious automatically delete an uploaded file if it hasn't been used by the route handler?
14:12 karjala_ from tmp or wherever it is it's storing it
14:12 karjala_ or even if it has been used, as well
14:14 karjala_ 2nd question: does $app->max_request_size(...) also affect the max total size of uploaded files in a web request?
14:15 jberger (1) it does whatever File::Temp does and (2) I believe so, that's what its trying to protect you from
14:16 jberger unless there is some other more relevant limit
14:16 jberger I don't recall off the top of my head if there's a separate upload limit
14:20 mishanti1 I'd actually go play with Java 9 sooner than Rakudo.
14:21 mishanti1 But I'm pretty excited for the direction Perl (5) is taking. Lots and lots of consistent and huge improvements!
14:23 exp-innit mishanti1: perhaps you could PM me why you feel that way
14:24 exp-innit as i honestly don't understand it
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14:46 batman nodejs++ # since it feels like perl "use strict"; :D
14:50 jberger exp-innit: I think a lot of us feel no special attachment to Perl6, it is a different language (albeit with a shared history)
14:51 jberger if we are going to choose to learn another language, there's no reason why Perl6 would be any higher on our lists than any other
14:51 exp-innit jberger: I understand the first part for sure
14:51 exp-innit but from my perspective, it's the Perliest Perl I know, and I enjoy the nature of Perl 5
14:52 exp-innit and so, concentrating that nature is quite enjoyable also
14:52 exp-innit hope that is intelligible :p
14:52 jberger (and indeed that's only if you ignore the historical context of Perl6 causing problems for Perl5 marketing-wise)
14:52 jberger I'm glad you like it
14:52 jberger I won't attempt to convince you otherwise
14:53 jberger but you don't see too many Perl6 enthusiasts on this channel either
14:53 jberger at least not vocal ones
14:53 jberger we have a project we like (Mojo) and the marketing troubles that Perl6 causes to Perl5 hurts us
14:53 jberger everyday
14:53 purl everyday is like Sunday
14:53 * jberger pats purl
14:53 * purl bites!
14:53 exp-innit jberger: yeah the marketing thing is rather an ugly mess
14:54 exp-innit the biggest problem with Perl 5 are the untrue things that have become memes
14:54 jberger and Perl5 could fix them if we could make a major version release (see PHP7)
14:54 jberger and indeed Perl6 would get better press under any other name
14:55 jberger renaming Perl6 is a win-win which they choose not to take and which we get no say in
14:55 exp-innit well there's been quite a bit of talk about it recently that I've seen
14:55 exp-innit so I would not be surprised to see that happen
14:55 jberger I know, and I'm glad to see that there is a growing faction in the p6 community that finally sees this point
14:56 jberger but it doesn't matter until leadership sees that, and that still seems unlikely
14:57 exp-innit jberger: well I have no dog in that fight, there's always going to be politics of that nature
14:57 jberger I disagree, in one course of action there will always be such politics, in the other, it ends
14:59 exp-innit jberger: oh I imagine there will be people complaining no matter what action happens, i just mean i don't have any particular allegience to any side
14:59 jberger sure, but it would go away
14:59 jberger as 6lang or rakudo or camelia or whatever takes root, I promise, no one will complain "we'd be doing better if only we'd kept the name Perl"
15:00 jberger the Perl6 effort has already seen to that
15:00 exp-innit anyway, i did not mean to get into a discussion about naming, just to point out the whitespace issues are not that severe and are only for a few disambiguation cases
15:00 exp-innit jberger: hah I think saying nobody would complain is a little naieve, i've yet to find a single thing in life that won't provoke complaints
15:00 ribasushi exp-innit: to put it from the other perspective: whether you realize it or not you are a participant in the "politics" of all this, via the very act of engaging in conversation about one language withing a space dedicated to another language, assuming that "but it is all perly" as a self-evident statement of fact
15:01 ribasushi it's like bringing up a certain wall at the dinner table - you can't do it without the politics
15:01 jberger oh, oh, let me guess which wall!
15:01 jberger the berlin wall! the great wall! Larry Wall!
15:02 exp-innit ribasushi: i don't think the two are implicit, one can voice an opinion about a language in another channel, not everything needs to be a battle
15:02 exp-innit after all, if politics is as viral as you suggest it's more so than the GPL, and so consumes the world :)
15:03 ribasushi um... have you watched tv lately? what you described is *exactly* what is happening
15:03 exp-innit it was supposed to be a little tongue in cheek, hence the emoticon
15:03 jberger exp-innit: let me put it another way, if you want to get the support of the people whose livelihood depends on Perl5 to support Perl6, the easiest and best way to do so is to rename it
15:03 ribasushi anyway - I consider this a QED and am bowing out before I get angry about it ;)
15:03 jberger ribasushi++
15:04 exp-innit jberger: as i said, I've no dog in that fight, I'll love Perl5 and Perl6 regardless of their names
15:04 ribasushi jberger: btw you were wrong on all counts, that wall: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084503/
15:05 jberger <exp-innit> mishanti1: perhaps you could PM me why you feel that way, as i honestly don't understand it
15:05 jberger ribasushi: hahaha
15:05 jberger anyway, we can let it be
15:05 jberger this topic always gets me worked up, that's my bad
15:06 exp-innit jberger: well i thought it better than in-channel discussion
15:07 exp-innit always looking to learn what people dislike (obviously other than the naming issue
15:07 jberger ) # OCD
15:07 exp-innit i've an overly-sensitive right ring finger
15:07 exp-innit it loves the enter key so much ☺
15:07 jberger I do too, don't worry
15:07 CandyAngel It was also a civil discussion on the matter.. which was nice to see :P
15:07 jberger CandyAngel: I really try, I really do
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15:08 exp-innit i'm fighting with javascript, so any distraction is a bonus
15:08 jberger hehe
15:08 exp-innit anonymous functions aren't allowed unless they are immediately invoked
15:08 * exp-innit sighs
15:08 jberger ?
15:08 exp-innit jberger: in DOM click handlers, for example
15:09 jberger sure, but that's because they are assumed to be deferred code anyway
15:09 ribasushi exp-innit: sorry can't resist seeing how you are struggling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c-uA9F4-o4 :)
15:09 jberger my js now is basically a virtual machine for Vue and Lodash
15:09 exp-innit I've heard good things about Vue, but that'll come next
15:10 exp-innit and mostly I'm just fighting it, finding the right niche invocations
15:10 mishanti1 I'm trying to figure out an oracle-issue in an oldish Perl, running through mod_perl with a ton of custom mess put on top. CGI.pm is involved...
15:10 jberger I'm so glad that mst made that talk, its been one I had thought about giving ever since seeing Doug Crockford's ES6 The Good Parts
15:10 jberger I was going to call it "Javascript: The Perl Parts" but his works too
15:10 exp-innit I don't understand how there are so many selectors
15:10 exp-innit but no prior sibling, no parent
15:10 exp-innit apparently this will break some sort of assumption
15:11 exp-innit but if the assumptions allow only half the DOM traversal techniques you'd expect, i'd say those assumptions are broken already
15:11 jberger mishanti1 good luck, yikes
15:11 mishanti1 jberger: Thanks. Luckily there are several tall bridges nearby.
15:11 jberger exp-innit: give up on jquery/selectors, embrace components
15:12 exp-innit jberger: using CSS3 selectors, no jquery
15:12 jberger for actual CSS, yeah, then you're screwed
15:12 exp-innit *grin*
15:12 exp-innit my friend linked me a superb article the other day, but I don't have it to hand
15:13 exp-innit tl;dr: CSS exists as an awful stopgap due to the lack of a sufficiently descriptive 'real' language
15:13 exp-innit and every time i use any html/css/js i feel that way
15:13 exp-innit at least css3 selectors/fetch/etc are… better
15:13 jberger don't let preaction hear you say that :-P
15:15 exp-innit honestly I feel happy for people who enjoy it, I think once you understand enough of the million caveats it becomes practical
15:15 exp-innit but for me, it's just a constant fight
15:16 jberger agreed, note the emoticon
15:16 exp-innit oh, i do have a mojo specific question!
15:16 jberger mostly I make the business logic of it work and hand it over to someone who can make it look good
15:16 jberger shoot
15:16 exp-innit i was watching a screencast of some testing, and there was a helper, content_like or similar
15:16 exp-innit which appeared to accept a selector
15:17 exp-innit hmm, i don't have good example code
15:18 exp-innit i'll come back and ask how to tidy these tests up later, got many more to add first ☺
15:29 jberger content_like doesn't accept a selector
15:30 jberger text_like might be what you are after
15:30 jberger http://mojolicious.org/perldoc/Test/Mojo#text_like
15:30 mishanti1 Wasn't content_like() a thing way back?
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15:30 mishanti1 Mojo3-era?
15:31 jberger content_like still exists but it doesn't take a selector
15:31 jberger content_like acts on $tx->res->text not $tx->res->dom
15:31 mishanti1 Clearly I was not paying enough attention. :)
15:31 jberger if that makes it clearer
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16:00 rick_soc1 I'm here!
16:11 jberger purl: get excited
16:11 purl http://quotesnhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Top-25-Excited-Meme-12.jpg
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16:11 rick_soc1 oh
16:12 jberger man, I should make that pick one from the 25 at random
16:12 jberger there's some way to do that
16:13 rick_soc1 so I was looking at the Mojolicious::Plugin::I18N releases page and it says *NOT AUTHORIZED*, why?
16:13 rick_soc1 oops i mean  ** UNAUTHORIZED RELEASE **
16:13 jberger https://metacpan.org/pod/Mojolicious::Plugin::I18N
16:16 jberger where do you see that?
16:17 mohawk i don't see "unauthorised" or anything that indicates it
16:19 jberger ah sco complains
16:20 jberger looks like it complains about using the App namespace
16:20 jberger but I'm guessing that is in tests and excluded in meta
16:25 mohawk perhaps not excluded enough?
16:27 mohawk i had a problem with "is this package/module going to be indexed?" by PAUSE, and the lack of tools (perhaps since solved) motivated me to start making PRs on PAUSE itself
16:30 rick_soc1 it is on CPAN
16:33 jberger rick_soc1: I think the search.cpan.org indexer got confused
16:33 jberger search.cpan.org != CPAN
16:34 rick_soc1 cPaN
16:35 jberger Mojolicious::Plugin::I18N           1.6  S/SH/SHARIFULN/Mojolicious-Plugin-I18N-1.6.tar.gz
16:35 jberger from 02packages
16:35 jberger ^^ that's cpan
16:35 jberger so you're safe
16:46 Grinnz yes, s.c.o is wrong
16:46 Grinnz it's seeing the App/I18N/etc packages in t/, but those don't get indexed
16:46 Grinnz or installed
16:48 Grinnz http://cpanmeta.grinnz.com/module-perms#=Mojolicious::Plugin::I18N
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18:14 sri oh gee, i'm traveling for a day and this channel becomes a perl 6 war zone
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18:20 jberger you can't leave me alone for a minute :(
18:20 * sri sets perl 6 on fire
18:20 jberger hey, I'm the interpersonal compliance person for the channel, not the inter-language :-P
18:21 Grinnz 🦋 🔥
18:21 jberger lol
18:21 sri lit
18:21 jberger travel went ok?
18:24 sri yea, just wish getting to prague didn't require a layover
18:25 sri ...as often as i have to go there now
18:26 sri but i guess americans would laugh at me
18:29 rick_soc1 ha ha ha
18:31 sri see
18:39 mohawk Grinnz, nice emoji work ;-)
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18:49 marcus pickle rick!
18:49 genio heh. recently watched that show and enjoyed every last episode
18:50 Grinnz hmm, no pickle emoji yet??
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18:53 mohawk you could use the aubergine as a sort-of pickle
18:53 jberger watch it!
18:53 purl I sense a great disturbance in the Force.
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18:54 Grinnz 🥒 is closer, but too bland
18:56 genio Grinnz: I got quite a bit closer last night on the re-work of Handle destruction in UV. I'm hoping that in the next couple of days I'll be done with that and be able to test M::R::UV against it
18:57 Grinnz \o/
18:58 genio If that "works" then it will just be a matter of going back through and cleaning up the code to make things a bit better/faster and releasing
18:59 mohawk wooo!
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19:11 jberger genio++
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19:19 dexteruk hi i have been reading about layouts and content, i was wondering how could i get this from http get and load them
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19:33 pink_mist get what?
19:33 purl rumour has it get is for retrieving data - bookmarkable and keeps the back button working
19:33 pink_mist templates aren't available over http, only the rendered results once your controller has rendered them
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20:06 pink_mist https://twitter.com/lemiorhan/status/935578694541770752
20:08 Grinnz yikes
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