Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #native, 2017-03-10

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Time Nick Message
03:09 willthechill joined #native
04:32 felliott joined #native
05:39 plicease Today I finished some detailed documentation for authoring an Alien dist using alienfile + ALien::Build
05:39 plicease https://metacpan.org/pod/distribution/Alien-Build/lib/Alien/Build/Manual/AlienAuthor.pod
05:40 plicease Also of interest is the FAQ, which re-addresses the same questions as the Alien::Base FAQ, but with an alienfile + Alien::Build context
05:40 plicease https://metacpan.org/pod/distribution/Alien-Build/lib/Alien/Build/Manual/FAQ.pod
05:41 plicease I have also released a number of dists which use this to CPAN
05:41 plicease https://metacpan.org/requires/distribution/Alien-Build?sort=[[2,1]]&size=500
05:42 plicease so we have some practical examples.
05:43 willthechill what is alienfile?
05:44 plicease https://metacpan.org/pod/alienfile
06:04 willthechill how is alienfile different than what Alien::astyle already does?
06:06 plicease It does a lot of things that Alien::Build::ModuleBuild either cannot do or cannot easily do
06:06 plicease part of the rationale is described here:
06:06 plicease https://github.com/Perl5-Alien/Alien-Base/issues/157
06:11 plicease here is an example of using git with alienfile which would be cumbersom with AB::MB
06:11 plicease https://github.com/Perl5-Alien/Alien-Base/issues/124#issuecomment-275568350
09:08 salv0 joined #native
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15:25 jberger plicease: neat
15:25 jberger that's very much in keeping with my idea of keeping the Alien system config-driven
15:26 plicease I think so I am glad that you agree
16:23 willthechill plicease: so does alienfile add the ability for Alien to use EU::MM instead of dzilla?
16:23 plicease alienfile is installer agnostic
16:24 plicease so you can use EUMM, MB or Dist::Zilla
16:24 plicease and dzil was never a requirement for AB::MB
16:28 plicease if Dist::Build ever becomes a thing then we should be able to support that as well
16:35 willthechill okay for some reason I thought I had to use dzilla when I made Alien::astyle
16:35 willthechill I prefer EU::MM
16:36 willthechill so A::astyle is my only distribution which uses dzilla  :-P
16:47 jberger willthechill: the author of the dzil plugin wanted me to make it required
16:47 jberger I thought that was crazy
16:48 willthechill WOW yeah that is crazy
16:48 willthechill haha
16:48 jberger I never opposed having a dzil plugin, but I don't use it myself
16:48 jberger wayyyy too heavy
16:48 willthechill okay well that makes me ask the question: does Alien::astyle use the "dzil plugin"?
16:48 willthechill I mean, it has a Build.PL file and uses distzilla formats and stuff?
16:48 jberger personally I'm moving all of my dists (where possible) to Module::Build::Tiny via App::ModuleBuildTiny for authoring
16:49 jberger let me check
16:49 jberger willthechill: https://github.com/wbraswell/alien-astyle/blob/master/dist.ini#L17
16:49 jberger yes
16:50 willthechill okay thanks
16:50 willthechill well since I already spent too much time tweaking Alien::astyle, I'll prolly just leave it as is, haha!
16:51 jberger oh sure
16:51 jberger I rarely recommend changing tooling
16:52 jberger and indeed I'm only changing the tooling of mine to support future work in non-make-based builders
16:52 jberger anyway, here's what a very simple Alien::Base-based dist can look like: https://github.com/Perl5-Alien/Alien-GSL
16:53 jberger it has all the same configuration, just embedded directly into the Build.PL file
16:56 plicease MB::Tiny will probably never be usable for Alien
16:57 plicease but it is fine for a dist where you don't have to customize anything.
17:03 jberger no definitely not
17:03 jberger that's why I said "where possible"
17:03 jberger Dist::Build would be my target for that if that comes to be
17:05 plicease my objection to MB::Tiny is that sometimes I am not sure if I might need to customze something down the road
17:06 plicease so having to migrate to something more powerful dosn't really (for me) justify its benefits
17:06 jberger in general I'd guess that you and I have different typical needs
17:06 jberger most of my modules at this point are web-related pure-perl
17:06 plicease Admittedly I frequently do not have typical needs :)
17:06 jberger indeed it was your concern that pulled me back from dzil
17:07 jberger because it can make doing common things easy it can also make doing uncommon things darn near impossible
17:07 jberger but it turns out that most of my modules don't and likely will never need that
17:07 jberger so MB::Tiny is enough, but I don't think that's likely to be true for the more prolific #native authors
17:07 jberger :-P
17:08 jberger (I have other problems with dzil but that can be for another time)
17:12 plicease I think our differing possitions illustrate the beneift of making alienfile + Alien::Build installer agnostic :)
17:12 jberger certainly
17:13 jberger plicease++
18:32 plicease jberger: speaking of Alien::GSL don't forget https://github.com/Perl5-Alien/Alien-GSL/pull/4
19:33 jberger heh, shoot, I had completely forgotten
19:44 jberger done
19:47 plicease cool.
19:52 * jberger puts his head in his hands
19:53 jberger I totally get how the progression of open source contribution is to make lots of projects early and then spend the rest of your life trying to give them away ;-P
20:13 plicease I like that progression better than lots of projects early and then miserly keep them while refusing to do maintenance which also seems to be a thing :P
20:15 jberger well in essence that's where I am on most of them :(
20:16 jberger but I'll happily hand most of them off
20:16 jberger I guess that's the distinction you were making, NOT handing them off
20:17 plicease right.  if i was ambiguous, was not referring to you.
20:19 plicease I am thinking of that one key module which is flagged early in say Perl 5.x.1 or so as being incompatible with Perl 5.x+1
20:19 plicease and the author doesn't respond until sometime after Perl 5.x+2 or 5.x+3 comes out
20:20 plicease x being an odd number
20:20 plicease i shouldn't be judgy
20:20 plicease one day this will happen to me

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