Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2008-09-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
07:48 [particle]1 joined #november-wiki
10:23 [particle]1 joined #november-wiki
10:23 moritz_ joined #november-wiki
10:23 zarah joined #november-wiki
11:22 masak joined #november-wiki
11:26 masak ok, on line 40 of p6w/Text/Markup/Wiki/Minimal.pm we have 'Text::Markup::Wiki::Minimal::Syntax::paragraph'
11:26 masak I would like to be able to write &($?PACKAGE)::Syntax::paragraph there instead
11:26 masak but I don't think Rakudo supports that yet
12:25 moritz_ eval to the help!
12:30 masak that's a though...
12:30 masak s/\./t./
12:31 masak but since I intend it as an _improvement_ to readability... :)
12:31 masak actually, depending on how it looks, it might be better with eval than the current state of things
12:32 moritz_ given that $?PACKAGE isn't implemented... forget it
12:33 masak true
12:33 masak how hard would it be to implement?
12:33 masak is the information available already, only not through the variable $?PACKAGE?
12:33 masak how does a class know its own name through .WHAT?
12:34 moritz_ that's totally unrelated
12:34 masak packages and classes?
12:34 moritz_ implementation-wise, I mean
12:34 masak I thought they belonged to the same hierarchy of container-like things in Perl 6
12:35 moritz_ classes create a proto object
12:35 moritz_ and that stores the class name, I think
12:35 moritz_ which can be accessed via method calls
12:35 masak I'm just thinking of from where to instruct the information about the current package
12:35 masak s/instruct/extract/
12:36 moritz_ whereas $?PACKAGE would have to install a read-only lexical variable at compile time for every class/module/package definition
12:36 masak hm
12:36 masak would `class A { print $?PACKAGE }` print "A"?
12:37 moritz_ I think so, yes
12:37 masak moritz_: agree. that's a very different thing from what .WHAT does
12:38 * masak emails rakudobug about $?PACKAGE
12:38 moritz_ but again, the relationship between classes, packages and types is a bit outside my area of expertise
12:39 masak mine too, but I'm learning
12:39 masak hm, spec.pugscode.org 403s for me
12:40 moritz_ try again
12:40 masak same thing
12:40 moritz_ on Sunday I was reading through the Perl 6 part of "Perl 6 and Parrot Essentials"
12:40 moritz_ works here
12:40 masak http://perlcabal.org/syn/ works, though
12:40 moritz_ and I corrected small things here and there...
12:40 masak in the book?
12:41 moritz_ and then I hit chapter 7 about rules/regexes
12:41 moritz_ and it's all out of date
12:41 moritz_ I didn't even know where to start
12:41 masak I can imagine
12:41 masak much has changed in that area
12:41 moritz_ masak: yes, it's open sourced
12:41 masak mainly because of PGE, I guess :)
12:41 masak moritz_: oh. cool.
12:42 moritz_ the perl 6 part lives in the pugs repo in docs/tutorial/
12:42 moritz_ the parrot part in the parrot repo in docs/book/
12:43 masak (open source)++
12:44 moritz_ anyway, even if we neglect out-of-date-ness, it's much too fast for anybody who doesn't know regular expressions
12:45 moritz_ and even if somebody knows about them, the calls to subrules aren't explained all that well, so it's not obvious for the reader what the powerful part of the regexes is
12:45 moritz_ and the match object isn't explained at all
12:45 masak much to be done in the area of documentation, it seems.
12:46 masak it's also important to actually _use_ the cool features, so that we know what realistic examples to give
12:47 masak is this correct Perl 6? `package P; say $?PACKAGE`
12:47 * moritz_ would parse mathematic expressions, but he uses that example far too often anyway
12:47 moritz_ masak: yes, it's correct, but there can only be one package $name; expression in a file
12:47 masak let's say there is in this case :)
12:47 masak does Rakudo support that only-one-per-file form yet?
12:48 masak or am I better of just using class blocks in my examples in the email to rakudobug?
12:48 masak apparently it's not supported yet :)
12:49 * moritz_ detects a lack of p6eval in #november-wiki
12:49 masak indeed
12:49 masak fixable? :)
12:49 moritz_ sure
12:50 masak yay!
12:50 moritz_ I just have to find the correct config file
12:50 p6eval joined #november-wiki
12:50 masak ...and once again, the population of bots equals the population of humans in #november-wiki
12:50 masak rakudo: say "hello Perl 6!"
12:50 p6eval rakudo 31507: OUTPUT[hello Perl 6!␤]
12:50 * moritz_ detects: lack of p6eval solved
12:51 masak moritz_++
12:51 * moritz_ counts two bots only, two speakers and two lurkers
12:51 masak zarah: did he count you as a bot or a human?
12:51 zarah masak: are you making fun of me?
12:51 masak zarah: yes.
12:51 zarah masak: I see.
12:52 moritz_ uhm
12:52 masak karma moritz
12:52 zarah moritz has a karma of 0
12:52 masak karma moritz_
12:52 zarah moritz_ has a karma of 1
12:52 moritz_ ok, not easily recognizable as a bot
12:52 moritz_ is that a non-nerving version of purl? ;-)
12:52 masak zarah: you may be a bot, but you are the cute one!
12:52 zarah masak: no, YOU are the cute one!
12:53 masak :)
12:53 masak moritz_: yes, she is
12:53 moritz_ oh, and charming as well
12:53 moritz_ PHP?
12:53 masak Perl 5 :)
12:53 moritz_ zarah: PHP?
12:53 zarah moritz_: are you talking to *me*?
12:54 masak she's written in POE
12:54 moritz_ so not just an infobot?
12:54 moritz_ zarah, PHP is swahili for "child molestor"
12:54 zarah moritz_: I did not understand that
12:55 masak moritz_: well, she doesn't do that thing that purl does with remembering loose data, no
12:55 masak (I hate that)
12:55 moritz_ ah, ok
12:55 masak but she does respond automatically to certain harmless patterns
12:55 masak three cheers for certain harmless patterns!
12:55 zarah hooray! hooray! hooray! :)
12:55 masak botnsack
12:55 masak er, botsnack
12:55 moritz_ masak: I think remembering loose data is OK as long as you talk directly to the bot
12:55 masak botsnack
12:55 zarah ;)
12:56 masak moritz_: it could be, yes
12:56 masak I haven't felt the need for it so far
12:56 moritz_ ok
12:56 masak she is mostly used by people who already know the loose data
12:56 moritz_ ;-)
12:57 masak zarah: tell moritz_ zarah has messaging capability, though
12:57 zarah Consider it noted.
12:57 masak ...just like lambdabot
12:57 moritz_ ORLY?
12:57 masak zarah: help
12:57 zarah moritz_: You have new messages. Write '@messages' to read them.
12:57 zarah masak: avaliable commands are boo botsnack clear-messages google help hi karma messages restart seen slap tell thanks
12:57 moritz_ @massages
12:57 zarah moritz_: masak said zarah has messaging capability, though
12:57 masak :P
12:58 masak I thought of that
12:58 moritz_ even with levenstein distance, or whatever ;)
12:58 masak huh? no, certainly not :)
12:58 moritz_ @a = (1, 2, 3)
12:58 moritz_ masak: just special cases?
12:58 masak ouch
12:58 masak aye
12:58 masak don't know if good or bad
12:58 masak in this case, good :)
12:58 moritz_ good!
12:59 masak but might be bad if a command was mis-spelled
12:59 moritz_ but I think with the possiblity of having Perl 6 examples in this channel a usage message would be more annoying
13:00 masak aye
13:01 masak it sometimes is annoying in #perl6
13:01 masak zarah: you're the non-annoying one!
13:01 zarah masak: no, YOU'RE the non-annoying one!
13:01 masak :)
13:04 * masak is a strong believer in narrow AI
13:04 masak s/ie/ei/
13:06 * moritz_ settled on a topic for his diploma thesis today
13:06 masak let's hear it
13:06 moritz_ or rather, on a professor and a field
13:07 moritz_ it's about spin hall effect in semiconductors
13:07 * masak hits Wikipedia
13:08 moritz_ we have a new chair for theoretical nano physics
13:08 masak how does this Spin Hall effect affect the performance of semiconductors?
13:09 moritz_ not significantly, I think
13:10 moritz_ unless in weird semiconductors like TeHg
13:10 moritz_ but the question is, can you build transistors that work with spin instead of charge?
13:10 masak spintronics!
13:10 * masak has read something about that in Scientific American
13:11 moritz_ it's all weird stuff, and I know next to nothing about it yet
13:12 moritz_ ask me again in two months, and I can tell you more ;)
13:12 masak it's a deal
13:12 masak good luck!
13:12 moritz_ thanks
13:12 moritz_ but the exams go first :(
13:12 moritz_ they are far less exciting
13:12 masak well, good luck with them, too
13:13 moritz_ thanks again
13:14 * masak is currently writing Chinese characters over and over again, studying for a test
13:15 moritz_ sounds like just as much fun as trying to understand the quantization of the magnetic field
13:15 masak it's one of those things which are not in themselves fun, but the fruits of the labour is
13:16 masak it's very rewarding to be able to read Mandarin Chinese
13:16 masak but this repetition business gives me much respect for millions of Chinese school children

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