Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2008-12-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:56 masak joined #november-wiki
11:17 masak I might get some November tuits today.
14:22 ihrd joined #november-wiki
14:22 ihrd hi there!
14:22 masak ihrd: hello!
14:22 masak merry chrstmas!
14:23 ihrd merry Christmas to you :)
14:23 * masak is finishing the skin CleanAndSoft for p5w
14:23 ihrd I updated grant propose a little
14:23 * masak looks
14:24 ihrd look like whiteboard can`t escape, so I use 'x' instead of '*'
14:24 masak aye
14:25 ihrd thank you very mach for help with bio
14:25 masak np
14:26 masak I think 10$/h is reasonable too.
14:26 masak we should finalize that section.
14:26 masak then I think the application can be sent.
14:26 ihrd I fell that too bullets should be clear
14:26 ihrd A port of HTML::Template from Perl 5 A simple templating engine.
14:26 masak oh, and I'll remove the 'hooking into popular Javascript/Ajax frameworks' wording
14:27 masak better to overdeliver than to overpromise.
14:27 ihrd because HTML::Template is simple template too
14:27 ihrd Yes!
14:29 masak if perl6.ru a blog or a webzine?
14:29 ihrd So, I mean simple and perlish templates, like http://search.cpan.org/~sri/M​ojo-0.9/lib/Mojo/Template.pm
14:29 zarah ihrd's link is also http://tinyurl.com/9slsph
14:29 ihrd perl6.ru is a blog
14:29 masak I'll write that.
14:30 masak re: "HTML::Template"/"simple templating engine": will we do both HTML::Template and another templating engine?
14:30 ihrd (webzine? hm new word for my, but I can`t find it in dic :( )
14:30 masak in that case, maybe we should write that.
14:31 masak ihrd: 'webzine' is a combination of the words 'web' and 'magazine', that is a magazine on the web.
14:31 masak I kinda liked that Genshi thing. I might try and port that.
14:31 ihrd Yes, I do not like HTML::Template, I want something clear and soft :)
14:31 masak ihrd: me too.
14:32 ihrd O, Genish with tree-logic
14:32 masak I think it might be a good idea to port successful frameworks to Perl 6.
14:32 masak http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/GenshiTutorial
14:32 zarah masak's link is also http://tinyurl.com/3caopv
14:32 masak and not only from Perl 5, but from other languages.
14:32 ihrd I like to implement simple text templates
14:32 masak ...as long as they have ideas worth copying :)
14:33 masak ihrd: do you have an example?
14:33 ihrd I read that after you mail
14:33 ihrd I was posted link above
14:33 masak because I think the example under 'Basic Template Rendering' is very nice.
14:34 ihrd I have some exp with very similar template system
14:34 masak oh, good
14:34 ihrd we wright one in my company
14:35 masak Genshi seems very well liked in the Python world.
14:35 ihrd with tree-like logic
14:35 ihrd when you manipulate with nodes
14:35 ihrd but it is hard to understand for html/css coder
14:36 masak maybe.
14:36 ihrd and this is bad side
14:36 masak it need not be our default alternative.
14:36 ihrd like with XSLT too
14:37 ihrd be default Web.pm should use simplest one
14:37 masak aye.
14:37 masak I think of it as a ladder.
14:37 masak on the first rung, a very simple text templating solution.
14:37 masak on the second rung, something like a Genshi port.
14:37 ihrd but we still have two alternatives:
14:38 ihrd fist -- perlish template, when you can put perl6 expressions inside of it
14:38 masak ooh -- I like that
14:39 ihrd second -- template with very-very simple ststements, like TT, and without any ability to change content at all
14:40 masak that we more or less have already.
14:40 ihrd first is flexable, but provide way to code all-in-one style
14:40 masak aye.
14:41 ihrd that is bad for big applications
14:41 masak indeed.
14:41 ihrd when you coder start to call something from templates
14:41 ihrd that can make you crazy :)
14:42 masak aye, that sounds like the wrong direction.
14:42 ihrd but mb that is not so bad for Web.pm :)
14:42 ihrd I mean -- perlish template
14:42 ihrd not that style
14:42 masak I suggest we provide two or three standard solutions, or increasing power and complexity.
14:43 masak maybe pure HTML with Perl 6 blocks is the lowest.
14:43 masak OTOH, maybe that won't be needed, and a HTML::Template-like solution is preferable.
14:44 masak (I say "HTML::Template-like" because I basically don't like the way the templates look in HTML::Template.)
14:44 ihrd HTML::Template good only for people who just know it
14:44 masak yes. I think we can do better.
14:44 masak at least syntax-wise.
14:45 ihrd oh yes, I relly dislike <THAT_STYLE too
14:45 masak in an XML-aware world, it's really bad to have syntax like that.
14:45 masak just think, our template files in November would have been valid XML if not for the template tags!
14:45 ihrd we can make simple template sistem when you can turn perl6 expresion
14:46 ihrd so, be default you can use it
14:46 ihrd but if you app grow you can turn off that
14:46 masak ihrd: yes. exactly.
14:46 ihrd and use strict, simple templete statements only
14:46 ihrd good, I like that way
14:46 masak anyway, I like that we're already in the concrete planning stages. I think this will be a good project, grant or no grant.
14:48 ihrd yes
14:48 ihrd I init git rep for Maya
14:48 masak maybe one could surround the Perl 6 code with <?perl ... ?>-type processing instructions.
14:48 masak ihrd: you did, or you will?
14:48 ihrd we can do that for Web.pm right now
14:49 masak ihrd: yes, good idea.
14:49 ihrd I did
14:49 masak ihrd++
14:49 masak my plan for today is to finalize the CleanAndSoft skin for p5w, and look at porting it to p6w.
14:49 masak it's a lot of repetitive work :/
14:50 ihrd I was starting too make templete more DRY, so mb not so :)
14:50 masak ihrd: so basically, what we want is not "A port of HTML::Template", but something nicer. :)
14:51 masak ihrd: yes, DRY is what's needed in p5w now too.
14:51 ihrd I think we should provide HTML::Template too
14:51 ihrd but I do not like idea to use it be default
14:51 masak very well.
14:51 ihrd and look forward to create better one
14:52 masak I'll write that.
14:53 masak time to eat here.
14:53 ihrd Do you creating Web.pm rep on github or you
14:53 masak I'll be back in an hour or so.
14:53 ihrd like to my do that?
14:53 ihrd o, ok
14:53 ihrd bb
14:54 masak ihrd: let's wait a bit before creating the Web.pm repo.
14:54 ihrd because I go to sleep ~hour
14:54 masak see you later
14:54 ihrd okay
16:04 * masak is back
16:15 ihrd masak: look like I found rakudobug
16:16 ihrd rakudo:  my %h; %h<one><two> = 1;
16:16 p6eval rakudo 34381: OUTPUT«Method 'postcircumfix:{ }' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤current instr.: 'postcircumfix:{ }' pc 1792 (src/classes/Associative.pir:77)␤»
16:16 ihrd I trying to found words for rakudobug subject now
16:16 ihrd 'can`t vivify two or more dimensional hashes'
16:17 ihrd but that is looks bad
16:17 ihrd mb you know how to say that better?
16:18 masak 'Rakudo doesn't understand autovivification of multiple hash indices'
16:19 ihrd thank you!
16:19 masak np
16:19 masak I'll go offline a bit again, so I can take the computer closer to where the family is.
16:19 masak will try to find time to come online later today, hopefully with some November commits.
16:59 ihrd left #november-wiki
17:43 masak joined #november-wiki
22:43 masak joined #november-wiki

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